If they do another album...

[Quzi]

Am I right in saying that the Gershwin album is generally better mixed than TWGMTR? I'm no audio engineer, but I was listening to Someone to Watch Over Me and afterwards That's Why God Made the Radio came on and I was disgusted at how suddenly everything lacked breathing space in comparison.

[Justin]

I was just listening to the Gershwin album the other day and it made me realize that I liked how some songs sounded: a tiny bit more organic.  But the vocals were still too processed much like TWGMTR is. 

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Is that a Winter Symphony to God in your Teenage Pocket, or are you Happy to See Me?

Nursery Home USA!

A home full of babies?

Oops! I meant Nursing Home USA!! 

If everybody had a wheelchair
Across the USA
Then everybody'd be a rollin'
Like Californi-a
You'd seen 'em wearing their IVs
Sensible shoes too
A thin receding gray hairline
Nursing Home USA

(Had to do it guys  )

I hope Mike Love doesn't read this. He just might do it!! He might be filing a law suit for claiming he wrote those words right now!

[adamghost]

When you say it lacks "air and dynamics", if you look into why that is, it's because the top frequencies are not as present as the bottom ones and it makes everything sound mushy.  It doesn't mean there's NO treble, but the lack of a balance of frequencies is a lot of the reason why you get the sensation of no dynamics...and, likely, overuse of compression on the individual tracks which also robs them of high end.  I ran an analysis of the tracks in ProTools just to be sure.  It's mostly lower midrange, with the frequencies tapering off rapidly going into the upper midrange and treble.  I did a little remastering on one of the tracks at home and to my ear, it made a huge difference in restoring dynamics and making the vocals really present, but unfortunately it also made the autotune a lot more obvious.  The mixing and processing of the tracks certainly played a role, but as I was able to clean up some of it with mastering software without much trouble, it's not all the mix.  I'm actually puzzled by this because Bob Ludwig did the mastering and he is a very well-respected guy in the field.  I have to ask myself if Capitol didn't play a role here.

I like the new album a lot, but the sound really screws it up for me.  I'm happy, though, that it hasn't done that for everyone, because I think a lot of it is really good.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Songs with Tony Asher and/or Van Dyke Parks lyrics.

[HeroAndVillain]

Do a lot of people have a problem with the album not having enough treble? To me it seems on the high side, acceptable, but pushing it. I'm very surprised to hear that complaint. (no offense)

You might be younger than the people complaining of not enough treble and better able to hear the treble.

[adamghost]

Do a lot of people have a problem with the album not having enough treble? To me it seems on the high side, acceptable, but pushing it. I'm very surprised to hear that complaint. (no offense)

You might be younger than the people complaining of not enough treble and better able to hear the treble.

I had a feeling someone was going to say this...so...

If what I'm experiencing is a result of loss of high frequencies in my own hearing, it magically goes away when I'm listening to other albums.    It's a miracle!

Now, snarkiness aside, I do hear spots on the album where there are certain elements (e.g. Mike Love's vocals, some of the toms) where it sounds like the very top is EQ'd up, so on smaller systems, it could sound excessively trebly in those spots.  Which is also not good.  But it's not the same as the overall sound of the record.

Also, let me ask the person who posted above, have you actually heard the album, or just the stuff posted on youtube?  Because the EQ on the youtube videos is much brighter than what's on the album.

But as I said, to me the album itself is murky, and I checked my impression both in ProTools with a frequency analyzer, and against other records, and both confirmed my impression...try the A/B test yourself!  I first noticed it when I was listening to the NPR interview with Brian and Mike and hearing the new album against the older ones.  After that, I couldn't stop hearing it.  And as I said, 20 minutes in ProTools playing with the bus compression and EQ made a world of difference to the clarity and presence of the one tune I worked on.  But, y'know, only me and about 3 other people have commented on it, so...whatever!  Having noticed the difference between the youtube videos and the CD mastering, I'm wondering if this isn't a deliberate decision based on assumptions about how people are going to listen to it, and how the files are going to be manipulated online.  That's above my pay grade, but it would at least make sense to me.

[Wirestone]

To complain about a Joe Thomas recording not having enough treble is a dream come true for me. I actually like the overall sound of the mix, and I'm not that easy to please in this regard.

[hypehat]

Love it.

[absinthe_boy]

Lack of top or too much bottom?

I still use an old high current (read 30A to the speakers) amp with bass & treble controls - whereas I realise that the fashion among audiophiles for some time is to dispense with them.

I am a *big* fan of bass...but controlled bass. With TWGMTR I turn it down a little because that aids the rest of the music to come through the blend. It's entirely possible that CDs these days are not mixed for halfway decent hi-fi systems but in the knowledge they're going to be ripped to MP3 and put on phones, laptops etc. IN the 60's Brian was mixing for AM radio through transistor radios and 4" speakers. Today perhaps for MP3 and headphones....sad...

There's plenty of dynamic range but little space or air. But then that tends to be a bugbear of digital recordings anyway IMHO.

Hmm...maybe I should just record the CD to 1/4 inch tape.

[Mike Lovechild]

I would love an album helmed by a Rick Rubin type where the guys write and sing uninhibited about their real lives and not the Beach BOys fantasy. An album made without thinking of commercial interests (possibly wishful thinking).

TWGMTR is as close as we will get to a finale of the Beach Boys dream. I would happily take a raw and spontaneous acoustic appendix to it. Love You meets Friends.

I hope the touring stops as planned, I personally don't want Brian to feel obliged to tour after this year.

[Bean Bag]

I would love an album helmed by a Rick Rubin type where the guys write and sing uninhibited about their real lives and not the Beach BOys fantasy. An album made without thinking of commercial interests (possibly wishful thinking).

TWGMTR is as close as we will get to a finale of the Beach Boys dream. I would happily take a raw and spontaneous acoustic appendix to it. Love You meets Friends.

I hope the touring stops as planned, I personally don't want Brian to feel obliged to tour after this year.

I agree.  I don't mind them breaking out the "back to the beach..." themes and "Do It Again" remakes  -- if it's ever been warranted it, this was certainly the time.  But, yes, I've always longed for a more "rick rubin-esque" and honest treatment.  Ever since Don Was and "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" actually.  I'm not holding my breath.

But, I'll take the punchy and smartly produced Joe Thomas sound for as long as they'll do it.  I think it fits them perfectly too.

[Bean Bag]

we know there's a good deal more to the Life Suite... they gotta release it.

I assume "Life Suite" refers to the last 3 or 4 songs on TWGMTR?  Those tracks are astonishingly good.  The best thing they've done, since...geez...Love You?  I didn't realize there was "more."

[GuyOnTheBeach]

So after reading some of the comments on this thread I put the album on and whacked up the treble on the EQ, I never noticed that 'Bill and Sue' had finger clicks in it before, it certainly makes the album sound fresher and less tired. Although I have kind of spoiled it for me now, going back to the proper levels it sounds muffled and lifeless  

[Wirestone]

I would love an album helmed by a Rick Rubin type where the guys write and sing uninhibited about their real lives and not the Beach BOys fantasy. An album made without thinking of commercial interests (possibly wishful thinking).

TWGMTR is as close as we will get to a finale of the Beach Boys dream. I would happily take a raw and spontaneous acoustic appendix to it. Love You meets Friends.

I hope the touring stops as planned, I personally don't want Brian to feel obliged to tour after this year.

Possibly wishful thinking? Try having no conception of reality. BW works with people he likes and is comfortable with. His decision.

And he's the one who wants to keep touring with the band through next summer.

[Bean Bag]

So after reading some of the comments on this thread I put the album on and whacked up the treble on the EQ, I never noticed that 'Bill and Sue' had finger clicks in it before, it certainly makes the album sound fresher and less tired. Although I have kind of spoiled it for me now, going back to the proper levels it sounds muffled and lifeless  

Try the hi-res HDTracks version...
https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD5099946320056

[Mike Lovechild]

I would love an album helmed by a Rick Rubin type where the guys write and sing uninhibited about their real lives and not the Beach BOys fantasy. An album made without thinking of commercial interests (possibly wishful thinking).

TWGMTR is as close as we will get to a finale of the Beach Boys dream. I would happily take a raw and spontaneous acoustic appendix to it. Love You meets Friends.

I hope the touring stops as planned, I personally don't want Brian to feel obliged to tour after this year.

Possibly wishful thinking? Try having no conception of reality. BW works with people he likes and is comfortable with. His decision.

And he's the one who wants to keep touring with the band through next summer.

Sure, but reality went out the window when the BBs got back together for a world tour and a new album in 2012.

[MyGlove]

Make it like "Today". Rock songs on the first side. Ballads and Symohonies on the second.

[adamghost]

Lack of top or too much bottom?

I still use an old high current (read 30A to the speakers) amp with bass & treble controls - whereas I realise that the fashion among audiophiles for some time is to dispense with them.

I am a *big* fan of bass...but controlled bass. With TWGMTR I turn it down a little because that aids the rest of the music to come through the blend. It's entirely possible that CDs these days are not mixed for halfway decent hi-fi systems but in the knowledge they're going to be ripped to MP3 and put on phones, laptops etc. IN the 60's Brian was mixing for AM radio through transistor radios and 4" speakers. Today perhaps for MP3 and headphones....sad...

There's plenty of dynamic range but little space or air. But then that tends to be a bugbear of digital recordings anyway IMHO.

Hmm...maybe I should just record the CD to 1/4 inch tape.

I think everything you wrote makes a lot of sense.  And after hearing how it sounds on youtube (that is to say, a lot better), I'm wondering if you're not right, that it was mixed deliberately in a muffled way.  I just got done with an album project that sounded terrific, and I wasn't happy with how the first track sounded on youtube at all...too much top.  So it may be there's a deliberate compromise being made by the mastering engineers to factor in peoples' listening on compressed files.

If so, then....yeech.  We've really devolved back to the 45 days, haven't we?

[Wirestone]

I would love an album helmed by a Rick Rubin type where the guys write and sing uninhibited about their real lives and not the Beach BOys fantasy. An album made without thinking of commercial interests (possibly wishful thinking).

TWGMTR is as close as we will get to a finale of the Beach Boys dream. I would happily take a raw and spontaneous acoustic appendix to it. Love You meets Friends.

I hope the touring stops as planned, I personally don't want Brian to feel obliged to tour after this year.

Possibly wishful thinking? Try having no conception of reality. BW works with people he likes and is comfortable with. His decision.

And he's the one who wants to keep touring with the band through next summer.

Sure, but reality went out the window when the BBs got back together for a world tour and a new album in 2012.

You have a point!

[absinthe_boy]

So after reading some of the comments on this thread I put the album on and whacked up the treble on the EQ, I never noticed that 'Bill and Sue' had finger clicks in it before, it certainly makes the album sound fresher and less tired. Although I have kind of spoiled it for me now, going back to the proper levels it sounds muffled and lifeless  

Who's to say what the 'proper' levels are?

THat's what EQ controls are for....to tinker with the sound a but until *you* get the most from what's on the CD (tape, record, MP3, alien cube device).

Given that I listen to recordings from the 1920's right through to today, by countless artists involving countless recording engineers, producers, masterers, various recording media....the notion that there is any "proper' equalisation is not one I have ever really entertained.

If you cannot hear that finger clicks on Bill & Sue, and assuming that you wish to hear them, then the "proper' EQ for that track is one that allows you to hear them.

None of us, no matter what equipment we have, will hear the same as the producer heard on the studio monitors. So why the phrack worry about the "right" equalisation? Play with it, I often find I change the EQ between tracks as it suits my tastes better.