A bit crap

[Too Much Sugar]

If you ever get tired of that, come back here, and I'll explain to you : It's all subjective.  

Is that so?  Then what about that statement?  Is your view, which you're objectively espousing to everyone, also not just as subjective?  

Of course!  I'm not the first, or the subjectively brightest to say that everything is realitive to the observer. 

Then you're contradicting yourself.  If it's all subjective, as you say, then it's meaningless for you to disagree with me (or anyone else) since, by your logic, my view is just as valid as yours.  But you are disagreeing with me and others, by pointing out how things actually (objectively) "are", which shows you're not nearly as subjective about it as you think. 

But we're derailing the thread.  Back to the merits/demerits of the reunion... 

[SG7]

I'm not going to these shows for the setlists. If I went there to want to hear Aren't You Glad or The TM Song I think I would be horribly disapointed. We may never get to see this lineup again. How time do we have left with these guys around?

[Chris Brown]

As others have said, I think there's a middle ground that can be achieved.  A balance that will please both the "meat and potatoes" crowd and the hardcore fans like us.  I don't think anyone is asking them to ignore their musical history - the surf and car songs are awesome in their own ways, and deserve to be right there with songs like "God Only Knows" and "Surf's Up."   The issue Wirestone touched on that I agree with has more to do with image than the music they're playing.

I've never particularly liked the fact that the image they present to the public sells them short in terms of how good the music really was.  This has been a problem right from the beginning, and it persists today.  That's why they will never be taken as seriously as the Beatles, the Stones, etc.  I understand that the beach images and the surfboards are a necessary evil where the general public is concerned, but unfortunately they all serve to pander to this idea of what people have always thought of them as, this somewhat cheesy group of guys who sang about surfing, cars and girls.  Not artists who gave us some of the best music of the rock n' roll era.  

The general public has never really taken them seriously as artists, and aside from brief periods in the 60's and 70's, they haven't done much to help their case in that department.  Brian has managed to establish himself in the last 10 years or so as one of the more important artists of the latter 20th century, and has made some damn good records that allow him to maintain that status with the public.  I'm not saying that the Beach Boys should be following that path through this reunion celebration, but I do hope that they allow themselves to be seen as the great artists that they were, rather than "that band who did Kokomo and Surfer Girl."    

[Runaways]

is this a parody of a phil thread?? i expect more from wirestone..

[hypehat]

Don't act like you won't be screaming like a Justin Bieber fan when you see the reunion show, Wirestone. Hope things start to get cool soon.

Yeah, if it comes on like a meat/potatoes show that would suck. Especially since we know the material the band are capable of doing. And I'm almost glad I won't be seeing one just so I will never have to hear Kokomo live.

It's still a little too early to tell. When someone tells me the first reunion show consists of Mike Love going 'wheeeeeeen' for half an hour and Al tuning his guitar as Bruce sits in row five and Brian and David hangi out with the Carl hologram whilst Foskett walks over to the soundboard to turn his mic up and wipe his dick on the front row, I'll be concerned.

[Wirestone]

is this a parody of a phil thread?? i expect more from wirestone..

Sorry.

It's perhaps a bit overwrought. But I've never been a huge fan or believer in the reunion. I was cautiously optimistic at first, and I reserve the right to be cautiously optimistic again, once we actually see full shows or the album.

I have to say, Chris Brown captured the intention of my thoughts perfectly, especially as it relates to Brian's solo career.

The issue Wirestone touched on that I agree with has more to do with image than the music they're playing.

I've never particularly liked the fact that the image they present to the public sells them short in terms of how good the music really was.  This has been a problem right from the beginning, and it persists today.  That's why they will never be taken as seriously as the Beatles, the Stones, etc.  I understand that the beach images and the surfboards are a necessary evil where the general public is concerned, but unfortunately they all serve to pander to this idea of what people have always thought of them as, this somewhat cheesy group of guys who sang about surfing, cars and girls.  Not artists who gave us some of the best music of the rock n' roll era.  

The general public has never really taken them seriously as artists, and aside from brief periods in the 60's and 70's, they haven't done much to help their case in that department.  Brian has managed to establish himself in the last 10 years or so as one of the more important artists of the latter 20th century, and has made some damn good records that allow him to maintain that status with the public.  I'm not saying that the Beach Boys should be following that path through this reunion celebration, but I do hope that they allow themselves to be seen as the great artists that they were, rather than "that band who did Kokomo and Surfer Girl."    

I honestly thought that we would be getting something close to TLOS with the Beach Boys on it. Which would be awesome. But now that I'm seeing those Islandy, Beachy titles -- well it makes me worry.

[Wirestone]

Don't act like you won't be screaming like a Justin Bieber fan when you see the reunion show, Wirestone. Hope things start to get cool soon.

I hope so. I've spent enough money on the tickets already!

[Mikie]

I like you Wirestone, you really know your shtuff, but I think you just wanna stir the poo with this thread!  

I personally don't give a rat's behind if The Beach Boys get up on stage and sing Shortenin' Bread, do the Star Spangled Banner with Jeff Foskett more prominent in the vocal mix, then fart into their microphones for the encore. And for all I care they can release an album containing songs not written by Brian Wilson, then have Capitol release one more Greatest Hits comp of songs we've heard 477 times already.

Everything they do during this anniversary year will be a bonus, and I'm grateful for anything they can muster up. It's fantastic that these guys are reuniting at all, much less doing a tour and releasing a new album, considering the legal issues and other crap they've gone through the past few years. I'm excited, and they'd have to shoot me to keep me away from the upcoming celebration.

P.S. I'll be the first in line at Walmart, and will grab me a CD as soon as I get around the obese women and trailer trash roaming the aisles. Then I'll buy a BB 50th Anniversary commemorative  shirt, shorts, poster, hanging mobile, frisbee and beach ball combo, balloons, coffee mug, key chain.............hey, I only live twice!

[southbay]

I like you Wirestone, you really know your shtuff, but I think you just wanna stir the poo with this thread!  

I personally don't give a rat's behind if The Beach Boys get up on stage and sing Shortenin' Bread, do the Star Spangled Banner with Jeff Foskett more prominent in the vocal mix, then fart into their microphones for the encore. And for all I care they can release an album containing songs not written by Brian Wilson, then have Capitol release one more Greatest Hits comp of songs we've heard 477 times already.

Everything they do during this anniversary year will be a bonus, and I'm grateful for anything they can muster up. It's fantastic that these guys are reuniting at all, much less doing a tour and releasing a new album, considering the legal issues and other crap they've gone through the past few years. I'm excited, and they'd have to shoot me to keep me away from the upcoming celebration.

P.S. I'll be the first in line at Walmart, and will grab me a CD as soon as I get around the obese women and trailer trash roaming the aisles. Then I'll buy a BB 50th Anniversary commemorative  shirt, shorts, poster, hanging mobile, frisbee and beach ball combo, balloons, coffee mug, key chain.............hey, I only live twice!

I thought the last time I saw the Beach Boys was 1997, just before Carl passed and I never knew it was going to be the last time.  The last time I saw the Boys with Brian was 1989 under Landy's spell.  I thought the last album was SIP. What can we possibly be upset about?  This is  all unexpected bliss. If you aren't pleased with the reunion, just ignore 2012 and go with Beach Boys ending with Carl's demise, Love v. Jardine and Summer in Paradise.

[endofposts]

The prospect of Brian with the Beach Boys was always scary in the past and one can only hope it will be different this time.  He has a lot of his band with him, but that could mean he'll just let them do the heavy lifting (aka having Foskett sing his parts louder than him).  I'm glad Brian is out there with them, but I hope he gets off his high horse or his fears or whatever made him mess up in the past and do himself proud.  I don't expect that much from Mike and Bruce other than what they usually give, though I hope it's a better version than the terrible Sonoma/Marin County Fair show I saw them do years ago.  Mike needs to not talk so much, no wonder his singing voice has gotten weak.  If I do wind up going in the end, it will be for Al and David Marks.  I'm still on the fence about whether to go and tickets are still available, so maybe.  I do have low expectations.

[Too Much Sugar]

I honestly thought that we would be getting something close to TLOS with the Beach Boys on it. Which would be awesome. But now that I'm seeing those Islandy, Beachy titels -- well it makes me worry.

I'm with you, and Chris Brown, on that.  I also have the same worries.  And it's not so much that I'm against a summer/beach/California song per se.  After all, since TLOS is mentioned, there are songs such as "Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl" and "Southern California" (and other various references) on there.  Even songs like "I Got Rhythm" and "They Can't Take That Away From Me" off BWRG have vintage Beach Boys arrangements; however, they are very tastefully done and there's some depth to the songs.  There's a lot going on there.  It sounds inspired.  There's a difference between being influenced from your past and being a parody of yourself.  Brian has mostly done a good job at the former in recent years.  

So when you hear titles such as "Beaches In Mind" or Al talking about "cute little islandy songs", you can't help but think Jimmy Buffett-esque kitsch.  I mean, your first album in a couple of decades, and you want "cute"?  I can already hear the cliche islandy percussion, vibraphones, fake party noises, with Mike name-dropping beaches, old song titles, or whatever.  In other words, a "Kokomo" re-write.  And perhaps it's premature to speculate on songs we haven't heard, but after the past 30-35 years, the concerns aren't unfounded, either.  I'm not necessarily opposed to summer/beach songs in themselves.  But if you're going to do it, that doesn't mean you have to be shallow, surfacey, and predictable.  The beach, the sun, and the sea, can actually be ripe for very deep and captivating stuff.  To me, that's the main difference between their beach songs from their heyday from their latter day attempts.  Although, to be fair, I am encouraged by the possibility of "Summer's Gone".  Given their age and history, that could be a very deep, interesting, captivating song that both gets their beach fix in, but also explores things beyond the surface.  

Ultimately, I think, in some sense, with the rise of Brian's reputation and the recent releases of "SMiLE", I was hoping for a bit of a cleansing, if you will.  After so much that's gone wrong for the band over the past few decades, musically, personally, and in terms of their reputation/image, perhaps I expected some of those demons to be excised.  And that could still happen.  They have been doing some things right, although there are a few things that are making me uncomfortable.  But we shall see...  

[Mikie]

You know, after seeing Carl and Dennis on stage with Brian all those years ago, I can't help but feel that, DAMN, I really wish Brian could have his brothers on stage with him this year. I think any issues of stage fright and stress and whatever insecurities still might linger in Brian's mind would be greatly diminished or eliminated. I think Brian was happier when his brothers were on stage with him - I think Carl was more or less a security blanket for him. Not that Brian needs one..........but hopefully they'll recognize Carl and Dennis with a little tribute and if it's well done, it should be something.

[runnersdialzero]

You know, after seeing Carl and Dennis on stage with Brian all those years ago, I can't help but feel that, DAMN, I really wish Brian could have his brothers on stage with him this year. I think any issues of stage fright and stress and whatever insecurities still might linger in Brian's mind would be greatly diminished or eliminated. I think Brian was happier when his brothers were on stage with him - I think Carl was more or less a security blanket for him. Not that Brian needs one..........but hopefully they're recognize Carl and Dennis with a little tribute and if it's well done, it should be something.

[Wirestone]

You know, after seeing Carl and Dennis on stage with Brian all those years ago, I can't help but feel that, DAMN, I really wish Brian could have his brothers on stage with him this year. I think any issues of stage fright and stress and whatever insecurities still might linger in Brian's mind would be greatly diminished or eliminated. I think Brian was happier when his brothers were on stage with him - I think Carl was more or less a security blanket for him. Not that Brian needs one..........but hopefully they're recognize Carl and Dennis with a little tribute and if it's well done, it should be something.

I think Carl's influence is very much missed. The 93 boxed set shows were a model of this sort of thing.

[monicker]

These guys are cashing in, pure and simple.

Are you just now realizing this? How in the world is this not the most plainly obvious thing to anyone on this board?

[Jim V.]

Gotta get this off my chest. The reunion really seems a bit crap now, doesn't it?

Car songs.

Surfin' songs.

Surfboards in promo pics.

"Beaches in Mind."

Not a single Pet Sounds song in the mini-set -- no WIBN, no GOK.

"Kokomo."

That hideous single cover.

Wal-Mart.

Jim Peterik writing the lead-off single.

Underwhelming, poorly mixed live appearances.

Utterly disengaged Brian.

I remember saying that I would expect the worst and hope for the best from this reunion. My expectations have been richly fulfilled.

All of you hepping yourselves up over this should calm down. It's not going to be the worst ever, but it seems like it will be richly embarrassing for anyone expecting anything with a smidgen of artistic integrity. Brian was on a winning streak with TLOS and BWRG. He's now singing songs from by Peterik and being produced by Joe Thomas.

How are you all blind to this? I have been trying so hard to think this will be good. But I've given up trying to defend the indefensible. These guys are cashing in, pure and simple. The album is likely going to have a couple of nice new BW things, some recycled stuff, and oodles of dross. No one is interested in pushing themselves -- only using Brian's band as a giant security blanket as they go through the motions of a coast-to-coast cash grab.

Depressing beyond belief.

EDIT: I would love to be proved wrong. I would so love to be proved wrong. But every step of this process has only increased my doubts, rather than assuaging them.

I applaud this post Wirestone. I don't entirely agree with you, but on most of the points you are spot on.

Not having any Pet Sounds songs in that set? That is ridiculous. Yes, I understand it was a "meat and potatoes" thing, but lets be honest, "Wouldn't It Be Nice", "Sloop John B", and "God Only Knows" are meat and potatoes. Even "Caroline No" coulda worked.

And "Beaches in Mind". As I said in another thread, I find it appalling that Mike Love thinks, that because The Beach Boys are a recording entity once again, that his lyrics need to be beachy, summery tropical island goop. That recent batch of songs he did for what he was hoping to be his new solo album didn't contain ANY beach, summer, or island themes. The songs themselves weren't that great, but the lyrics were pretty decent. So it's obvious Mike can still write a decent lyric. So why "Beaches in Mind"? Or "Summer's Gone"? It probably just goes to the fact that Mike thinks it's commercial, and he's probably hoping for some kind of beachy novelty hit one last time, which I feel is kinda slimey. But oh well. However, how funny would it be if we end up seeing the writing credits for those songs and all they say is "B. Wilson"!

And I totally understand that if The Beach Boys play a show, they are gonna do the surf and car songs. And that is great. I'll enjoy it. However, do we really need "409" and "Shut Down" at the expense of say, a "Caroline No" or a "This Whole World" or a "Good Timin'"? It just seems kinda like these guys talk a great game about mixing it up, but at the end of the day are scared they might not succeed if they don't load up on the super early material. I'm not saying that they should come out and play the whole Holland album or pull out "A Thing or Two" as a surprise track, but it would be nice for them to at least fucking acknowledge masterworks like "This Whole World", "Good Timin'", "Cool, Cool Water" or even something like "You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone". But we'll probably end up with "California Dreamin'" so those confused people who thought The Beach Boys originally did that one in the 1960s will be happy.

But at the end of the day I'm happy with how things are going. Brian Wilson is back with The Beach Boys! He's producing a brand new album for them and he's been sounding better than he has in nearly 40 years! I'm sure at the least, we'll get a few new B. Wilson Beach Boys classics. We are also getting a new box set which I'm sure will have some awesome surprises for us. And I'm sure the setlists will end up being pretty good at the end of the day. Maybe not perfect for our tastes, but I think they'll pull out a few surprises. So yeah, I feel Wirestone has a right to complain, as do all of us, but realistically this is all just awesome that they are even together. I really never thought it would happen again, and I feel lucky to witness The Beach Boys back in action in 2012!

[Wirestone]

These guys are cashing in, pure and simple.

Are you just now realizing this? How in the world is this not the most plainly obvious thing to anyone on this board?

Heh. I think it's been clear that economic concerns have been a prime motivating factor of this from the start. But having those concerns buttressed by artistic integrity would be nice.

Over on the Hoffman board, they say that the band has rehearsed some 50 songs. That is somewhat promising news, actually. I would love to see 30-plus song setlists.

[Pretty Funky]

We should keep in mind the record label may have a say. If they sign a nostalgic act today they could expect certain conditions. As in KISS (full make up and Simmons sticking his tongue out on the cover), Neil Diamond (Smooze) AC/DC (Hard Rock). To name a few.

With this in mind, Capitol requesting a beach/ summer reference on a Beach Boys album isn't too far out there.

[Pretty Funky]

Over on the Hoffman board, they say that the band has rehearsed some 50 songs. That is somewhat promising news, actually. I would love to see 30-plus song setlists.

Where the heck are they getting those tips?

[lance]

I'm sort of with Wirestone. Only there is no way Im going to see them in concert, as they are not coming this way so Im not too concerned with that. I am just hoping the album is a solid, good one. More "LOS' than SIP+Brian Wilson. But, yeah. I'm a bit pessimistic.

[endofposts]

Does Mike still do a 15 minute monologue about people in VW buses before "Good Vibrations," and will he do it on the reunion tour? 

[Wirestone]

Does Mike still do a 15 minute monologue about people in VW buses before "Good Vibrations," and will he do it on the reunion tour? 

Oh, god. Really?

[Andrew G. Doe]

This is slightly disturbing - Wirestone normally talks sense, so I can only assume he's been hanging out with Cohen for too long in recent weeks.

Car songs. - well, yeah, it's what they're known for in the mind of Joe Q. Public.

Surfin' songs. - as above, in spades.

Surfboards in promo pics. - no brainer. Not saying I agree, but... no brainer.

"Beaches in Mind." - we know the title. We know Al whistles on it. We know it's "a very cheerful song". Yup, more than ample grounds to dismiss it out of hand.

Not a single Pet Sounds song in the mini-set -- no WIBN, no GOK. - like you say, mini-set. Hell. they only played one song at the Grammys: this is going to be a complete fiasco !

"Kokomo." - yup, can't see the point of doing their biggest selling 45 and the one song most folk born post-60s associate with them. What are these guys thinking of ?

That hideous single cover. - personal opinion.

Wal-Mart. - when Brian put out TLOS with Best Buy only bonus tracks, I don't recall the wrath of God being called down upon his head.

Jim Peterik writing the lead-off single. - again, we have a title and composers: that's all, you don't know what it sounds like. Just suppose... just suppose it's actually a nice, wistful, retro ballad that isn't too shabby with vocals a la "DFTS" ? Try hearing the thing first.

Underwhelming, poorly mixed live appearances. - two, if you count the Dodger Stadium thing. Three songs.

Utterly disengaged Brian. - sometimes. Sometimes not. That's Brian. He's a trip. 

[Wirestone]

Just like AGD ... trying to ruin my freakout by talking rationally.

Have you no shame, sir?

[Andrew G. Doe]

None.