Is Mike Love a good singer?

[SMiLE Brian]

Mike seriously messed up his voice from 1975 on trying to sound like he did in the 1960s.

[stack-o-tracks]

It's alright for Van Dyke to make up words but Mike's an idiot for it.  Okay.

Lol what?

[Ron]

People sh*t on Kokomo for Mike's 'alliteration' but Van Dyke's a genius for giving us Kurt Cobainesque nonsense that even he can't explain.  I'm not saying Van Dyke's not great, I'm just saying if Mike's a horrible songwriter for Kokomo, Van Dyke deserves another look

[Shady]

Mike has one of the most recognisable voices in American history

Incredible vocalist, really wish he sung like he did on "All I wanna do" more

[Ron]

Yeah, it's so strange that he didn't.  He even swoops up into a falsetto for a second on it, you'd think if he had that talent (not necessarily the falsetto) he'd have used it more often.  Maybe he thought if he stuck with his tried and true voice that would be more commercial. 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Mike Love didn't write that many lyrics to Kokomo so the comparison doesn't quite work.

Also, I don't think it's a matter of Van Dyke not knowing what his words mean - he simply has a sophisticated understanding of the "role of the author" which even at that time was well accepted in literary communities since the beginning of the 20th Century.

[Ron]

I'm not intelligent enough to understand what the f*** you just said, but I'm just saying the lyrics to Kokomo are fine with me. 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

That's fine -- but what does that have to do with the lyrics of Van Dyke Parks?

[SMiLE Brian]

Mike has one of the most recognisable voices in American history

Incredible vocalist, really wish he sung like he did on "All I wanna do" more

Holland is great for hearing Mike's "other" voice.

[Ron]

That's fine -- but what does that have to do with the lyrics of Van Dyke Parks?

I'll go over it again.

Van Dyke is regarded as a great lyricist.  Lots of folks hate Kokomo, usually they say because of the lyrics.  I'm trying (not very well) to make the point that if you can get down with Van Dyke's aliteration, why not the equally vapid lyrics on Kokomo? 

[hypehat]

You've all said what I meant really (Apart from Ron going off his meds again) - Mike Love is a fine Beach Boy. Like I said, but probably didn't communicate very well, I wasn't slagging off his work with the group or on his songs or trying to get a rise out of you. His softer voice on stuff like Big Sur and Meant For You also is a plus.

You just get things like him trying to sing Imagine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfmH2wHTQZ8 and it becomes ballcrushingly awful, and how different is the way he sings that to how he sings, IDK, 409 in the same timeframe and delivers a kick-ass lead? It's not that far.
Then there's Country Love, where he sings in the same manner about y'know, dying and this poor dog, home, and crying into his beer, and there's seemingly NO emotion conveyed there.

Maybe he's the most specialised singer in western pop, or we're all mistaking his dead expressionless nasal bellow for a passionate sneer about chicks and cars, the thin veneer of which slips when he sings a song with genuine emotional complexity that hasn't been written for him?


Oh, and Ron, the SMiLE lyrics aren't vapid. Just because they aren't 'obvious' doesn't mean they don't mean anything.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

That's fine -- but what does that have to do with the lyrics of Van Dyke Parks?

I'll go over it again.

Van Dyke is regarded as a great lyricist.  Lots of folks hate Kokomo, usually they say because of the lyrics.  I'm trying (not very well) to make the point that if you can get down with Van Dyke's aliteration, why not the equally vapid lyrics on Kokomo?  

Well, first of all, there isn't much alliteration in Van Dyke Parks's lyrics. You're using the term as it was misused by Mike Love. Furthermore, I don't find Parks's lyrics to be vapid in any sense of the term. His use of puns, jokes, wordplay and his ability to conjure images with language show a fairly strong skill at writing, in the vein of Edgar Allan Poe. Kokomo's lyrics, on the other hand, could have been part of a jingle put together by a travel company. But, again, this hasn't much to do with Mike Love since he didn't really have much to do with those lyrics.

[tpesky]

Mike's a good singer in a number of ways for sure, love his bass parts, and when I'm singing along it's Mike's parts I love to imitate. His voice, especially today, is not for everyone's taste and I understand that.  I am a little nervous as to how he'll sound on these reunion shows and I hope they don't overload the setlist with Mike leads. I know he sings on a number of hits but I hope they try to balance it.  One of the shortcomings of the 90's band is the set had too many Mike leads and not enough Carl and Al.

[Chris Brown]

Yes, Mike is a great singer - not in the Brian or Carl sense (as in they could sing the phone book and it would sound amazing), but as others have said, he had a distinctive lead voice that was perfectly suited to the material he sang.  And of course, his bass singing was out of this world.

I'm not sure how we got onto the subject of Mike's lyrical abilities versus those of Van Dyke, but if you're going to argue that Mike is a great lyricist (a premise that I do agree with, by the way), why on earth would you focus on "Kokomo" of all things?  He didn't really "write" those lyrics in a traditional sense, and there are dozens of songs he co-wrote in the 60's and 70's that are far better examples of how great a lyricist he was.  "Kokomo" is a catchy pop song - "God Only Knows" is a great song.  World of difference.

[Liamo]

For a guy who didn't want to sing over and over the crow flies...he sang the hell out of it

[ivy]

Well, first of all, there isn't much alliteration in Van Dyke Parks's lyrics. You're using the term as it was misused by Mike Love. Furthermore, I don't find Parks's lyrics to be vapid in any sense of the term. His use of puns, jokes, wordplay and his ability to conjure images with language show a fairly strong skill at writing, in the vein of Edgar Allan Poe. Kokomo's lyrics, on the other hand, could have been part of a jingle put together by a travel company. But, again, this hasn't much to do with Mike Love since he didn't really have much to do with those lyrics.

Here here. I always wondered if Mike meant "acid illiteration." Illiteration obviously isn't a word but it makes more sense to diss VDP&co by calling them illiterate than by accusing them of using a literary technique that actually isn't seen much in the lyrics.

If that is the case, big ironic lulz abound.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Mike Love was a damn good singer (was, not is, as he long ago resorted to nasal-overkill), with more range than he's generally given credit for, and an excellent frontman.

As a lyricist, he was great and continues to be somewhat under-rated. The lyrics to so many of the BB's early songs are simply perfect!

As a solo songwriter, he had some terrific moments - Big Sur in particular - but also some atrocious moments, and was certainly a lesser talent than any of the Wilson brothers and - arguably - Al.

As a person, i dislike some of the things he's said and done, i intensely dislike his constant shameless history revision, and i hate his politics.

 

[UK_Surf]

That's fine -- but what does that have to do with the lyrics of Van Dyke Parks?

I'll go over it again.

Van Dyke is regarded as a great lyricist.  Lots of folks hate Kokomo, usually they say because of the lyrics.  I'm trying (not very well) to make the point that if you can get down with Van Dyke's aliteration, why not the equally vapid lyrics on Kokomo? 

Er...VDP's lyrics are brilliant. You don't have to like them, but they are exquisitely crafted in terms of word play (after Hart Crane, he is the king of the tasteful, Americana-drenched pun), he's able to do the assonance and sibilance without sounding like an ass (but maybe a bit like a sibyl), and he knows how to make clever, apposite allusions that still work in pop tunes.

Heroes and Villains? Simple, effective, and catchy, with just enough esoteric content to make you go 'huh...yeah...clever' and still remember it. Wonderful is a model of restraint, while still being subversively Freudian - it's a fab riff on the BB's reputation for clean-cut American. The cadence is sophisticated without ever losing the beat. Ironic that one of the best line deliveries in Smile comes from Mike (over & over....). It's kind of heartbreaking actually, because I really like Mike's voice, and genuinely, fer real, think that had he given VDP a chance (and maybe vice versa) they could have reached an equilibrium and delivered some amazing material.

There is the odd competent line in Kokomo, but the lyrics have been battered into a rigid cadence and rhyme scheme that could charitably be described as 'basic'. Carl's breathtaking voice on the chorus redeems it for me.  

[Shady]

For a guy who didn't want to sing over and over the crow flies...he sang the hell out of it

Gets me every time

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

That's fine -- but what does that have to do with the lyrics of Van Dyke Parks?

I'll go over it again.

Van Dyke is regarded as a great lyricist.  Lots of folks hate Kokomo, usually they say because of the lyrics.  I'm trying (not very well) to make the point that if you can get down with Van Dyke's aliteration, why not the equally vapid lyrics on Kokomo? 

Er...VDP's lyrics are brilliant. You don't have to like them, but they are exquisitely crafted in terms of word play (after Hart Crane, he is the king of the tasteful, Americana-drenched pun), he's able to do the assonance and sibilance without sounding like an ass (but maybe a bit like a sibyl), and he knows how to make clever, apposite allusions that still work in pop tunes.

Heroes and Villains? Simple, effective, and catchy, with just enough esoteric content to make you go 'huh...yeah...clever' and still remember it. Wonderful is a model of restraint, while still being subversively Freudian - it's a fab riff on the BB's reputation for clean-cut American. The cadence is sophisticated without ever losing the beat. Ironic that one of the best line deliveries in Smile comes from Mike (over & over....). It's kind of heartbreaking actually, because I really like Mike's voice, and genuinely, fer real, think that had he given VDP a chance (and maybe vice versa) they could have reached an equilibrium and delivered some amazing material.

There is the odd competent line in Kokomo, but the lyrics have been battered into a rigid cadence and rhyme scheme that could charitably be described as 'basic'. Carl's breathtaking voice on the chorus redeems it for me.  

None of this stuff is/was ever meant to be taken so seriously.

Kokomo is a pleasant and catchy summer song that happened to become a hit. It is completely competent on all levels for what it is and for what it aspires to be. Basic or not.

[UK_Surf]

That's fine -- but what does that have to do with the lyrics of Van Dyke Parks?

I'll go over it again.

Van Dyke is regarded as a great lyricist.  Lots of folks hate Kokomo, usually they say because of the lyrics.  I'm trying (not very well) to make the point that if you can get down with Van Dyke's aliteration, why not the equally vapid lyrics on Kokomo? 

Er...VDP's lyrics are brilliant. You don't have to like them, but they are exquisitely crafted in terms of word play (after Hart Crane, he is the king of the tasteful, Americana-drenched pun), he's able to do the assonance and sibilance without sounding like an ass (but maybe a bit like a sibyl), and he knows how to make clever, apposite allusions that still work in pop tunes.

Heroes and Villains? Simple, effective, and catchy, with just enough esoteric content to make you go 'huh...yeah...clever' and still remember it. Wonderful is a model of restraint, while still being subversively Freudian - it's a fab riff on the BB's reputation for clean-cut American. The cadence is sophisticated without ever losing the beat. Ironic that one of the best line deliveries in Smile comes from Mike (over & over....). It's kind of heartbreaking actually, because I really like Mike's voice, and genuinely, fer real, think that had he given VDP a chance (and maybe vice versa) they could have reached an equilibrium and delivered some amazing material.

There is the odd competent line in Kokomo, but the lyrics have been battered into a rigid cadence and rhyme scheme that could charitably be described as 'basic'. Carl's breathtaking voice on the chorus redeems it for me.  

None of this stuff is/was ever meant to be taken so seriously.

Kokomo is a pleasant and catchy summer song that happened to become a hit. It is completely competent on all levels for what it is and for what it aspires to be. Basic or not.

True for Kokomo, but not for Smile, and the comparison between the approaches is valid in terms of what it says about the aspirations of the singer and the band.

The ways in the Kokomo vs. the Smile lyrics were put together make a difference to how the singer interprets it, and what we learn about the vocalist and his abilities as a result. A lot of this thread has been based around what ifs - what if ML moved into different material, would we have got more to learn more about his range (for example, the Sunflower AIWTD).  Reportedly, VDP was actually involved in recording Kokomo (or sessions for material produced around that time). So, there are bases for comparison. No harm in discussing them.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I dunno!

With Smile, Brian was big into humor and LSD and I think he wanted the listener to sit back, Smile and get either stoned or to trip out and laugh or whatever. I think he'd be horrified at the thought of pipe smoking academics tearing it apart note for note.

That kind of thing can take all the fun out of music.

Sometimes all you're supposed to do is listen and live your life with the music as the soundtrack.

But I get what you're saying.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Well, first of all, there isn't much alliteration in Van Dyke Parks's lyrics. You're using the term as it was misused by Mike Love. Furthermore, I don't find Parks's lyrics to be vapid in any sense of the term. His use of puns, jokes, wordplay and his ability to conjure images with language show a fairly strong skill at writing, in the vein of Edgar Allan Poe. Kokomo's lyrics, on the other hand, could have been part of a jingle put together by a travel company. But, again, this hasn't much to do with Mike Love since he didn't really have much to do with those lyrics.

Here here. I always wondered if Mike meant "acid illiteration." Illiteration obviously isn't a word but it makes more sense to diss VDP&co by calling them illiterate than by accusing them of using a literary technique that actually isn't seen much in the lyrics.

If that is the case, big ironic lulz abound.

And I thought I had the greatest avatar pic of all-time!!!!   

[SMiLE Brian]

Well, first of all, there isn't much alliteration in Van Dyke Parks's lyrics. You're using the term as it was misused by Mike Love. Furthermore, I don't find Parks's lyrics to be vapid in any sense of the term. His use of puns, jokes, wordplay and his ability to conjure images with language show a fairly strong skill at writing, in the vein of Edgar Allan Poe. Kokomo's lyrics, on the other hand, could have been part of a jingle put together by a travel company. But, again, this hasn't much to do with Mike Love since he didn't really have much to do with those lyrics.

Here here. I always wondered if Mike meant "acid illiteration." Illiteration obviously isn't a word but it makes more sense to diss VDP&co by calling them illiterate than by accusing them of using a literary technique that actually isn't seen much in the lyrics.

If that is the case, big ironic lulz abound.

And I thought I had the greatest avatar pic of all-time!!!!   

Wonder what OSD will think.

[Lonely Summer]

Mike Love was a damn good singer (was, not is, as he long ago resorted to nasal-overkill), with more range than he's generally given credit for, and an excellent frontman.

As a lyricist, he was great and continues to be somewhat under-rated. The lyrics to so many of the BB's early songs are simply perfect!

As a solo songwriter, he had some terrific moments - Big Sur in particular - but also some atrocious moments, and was certainly a lesser talent than any of the Wilson brothers and - arguably - Al.

As a person, i dislike some of the things he's said and done, i intensely dislike his constant shameless history revision, and i hate his politics.

 

This is exactly how I feel about Mike Love. I admit I used to do my share of Love-bashing, but he was/is an important contributer to the band.  I recall an interview Carl did during his solo tours where he said he now had a greater appreciation for what Mike did as the BB's frontman. I no longer see him as the evil guy in the hat. There definately are some villains in the BB's history, but I don't see Mike - or any of the BB's - that way.