The Beatle/Threetle reunion that almost was

[vintagemusic]

I hope this thread gets some action, one of my alltime favorite topics. Sadly there is no way
to actually resolve the discussion, because it's something that didin't happen.

Your thoughts, opinions, how could it have been done? should it have been.
Here is my view, (after an enormous amount of study and thought)

Beatles fans were on a cloud in 1994/95, Two new Beatles songs were coming, a tv mini series
documentary, with all three living Beatles, and 20 previously unreleased songs from the sixties
plus numerous, demos, alternate versions of famous songs, live recordings and dialogue, all on
six shiny new cds! As we all know it was a huge commercial success, got younger folks interested
in the beatles, made the old fans happy, and unlocked the vaults, there were also two maxi singles
for the new songs, featuring additional 60's B sides not included on the three double albums. There was
also footage of part of a day long jam featuring the three of them, busking through early fifties songs
from their Hamburg, Liverpool repetoire, and some very early Beatle songs, (sadly the Beatle originals
were cut from the film)


In addition to all of that, the Threetles considered doing an entire new album. Sadly after only four new
songs were recorded, Harrison pulled the plug. His reason was without John Lennon being there, however
nice it might be, the Beatles were the four of them, and without John, there was only three of them. So opinion
jhas always been split with people who agree with that, and peope who wish they had gone ahead and done
the album.

Now I personally believe, Harrison still harbored some resentment against Paul McCartney and that was a part of
his decision making, (i;m not gonna play second fiddle to P
They did consider this album, they did cut four tracks, Three Lennon demos, and one new McCartney/.Harrison song.
so how would it, or should it have gone down, here is my view.

Lennon certainly needed to be involved, and he was, they cut three Lennon songs, the best of what Yoko had given them
and certainly, they weren't the Best Lennon songs ever, and his vocal sound wasn;t so hot, but damm! they did it!

OK the three Lennon songs were all gonna be on this album, this is how Lennon would be represented, so thats three
tracks, now what of the rest? NO way was Harrison going to agree to five new Paul songs, one Harrison song, and one
Ringo song, no way, clearly Harrison would never agree. So there are two choices, Songwriting parity, or McCartney and
Harrison were gonna have to write together as a team. Well thats more intimate, takes more of a bond and commitment, and
Harrison and McCartney had issues with each other. In fact while working on the song they cowrote, thats when they had an
argument and stopped recording new stuff, supposedly according to the engineers or other witness'es they argued about the
structure or arrangement of the song itself, McCartney believing the song should be recorded a certain way, and Harrison disagreeing.



So as I see it, this is what they could have done, the three Lennon songs, including some new composing for Lennons
third song Now and then, which needed some major editing and writing of lyrics for the verse, so Lennon sings lead on the chorus
and bridge, and McCartney Harrison sing the verses, then they finish the one co-write All for Love thats four songs. McCartney
and Harrison write one song each, and the three of them write one song for Ringo, that gives them seven songs.  and Lennon
is inlcuded on at least three. Harrison and McCartney have songwriting parity, which Harrison would have insisted on I believe.
And then maybe they do either one or two covers from their early repetoire,   songs they never got around to recordingg and
that gives them either eight or nine songs, and I say they stop there. They want to be mindful Lennon is included as much as possible
and they need songwriting parity, and Harrison is reluctant to write with Macca, but they manage to write the one for Ringo, and
the other one they already had ging, one new song each, the cover song(s), maybe they fly in a Lennon guitar part, or spoken word
somewhere and build a track around one of his poems or something like that, the way the Doors did with Morrison.


So in this scenario I have laid out, which I think is practical, and fits the facts as we know them. They issue a disc four,  special
disc of new Beatles music, with all the new songs, but it's a little short for an album. so they pad the album ot with a special disc two
of three or four videos Free As A Bird and Real Love and one or two more videos they shoot, and somehow they pad the rest of the album
out with a few more outtakes, or spoken word by John Lennon, or maybe the McCartney contribution is kind of a long minisuite, (stretching
there) somehow they pad the eight or nine cuts. and release it as either the new Beatles album, or the new beatles, with additional
music by Paul George And Ringo, maybe they do an intrumental just to make it longer. Remember, in my scenario, Harrison is very touchy
about playing second fiddle or having McCartney write the bulk of the songs, and they don't want too many tracks that don't feature Lennon,
sure Harrison and McCartney could write three songs each, and they could do two Ringo tunes, Fine by me, but then you have a dozen songs
or more, and Lennon is only on three, thats why I think one new song each, the one cowrite by Paul and George, and maybe one cover version
a short album, because Lennon can only be represented so much so thats my scenario, of what could have happened, given the politics, and realities
of the circumstances.

I really really wish they had done that, or been able to get along well enough, where McCartney/Harrison could have written six or eight songs
together, along with one or two for Ringo and the three Lennon cuts, but they were too prickly for that, and so I think my scenario is more sensitive
to Harrisons point of view, and keeping it short cause Lennon is under represented...

How can you see it happening, do you wish they had done it? what other ways could they have gone about it, and remember Jeff Lynne
was producing, McCartney wanted George Martin, but on of Harrison's conditions, was that Lynne be co producer, and remember Ringo
was gonna get if not parity, a song or two also,

SO please tell me how it could have gone down, why didin't it. don't you wish you had that last album on your shelf right now?

Lets chat about it.

I know for me personally, I am still very unhappy they chose not to do it, because of Harrison's objections, I am glad they
recorded the four songs, and I would at least like them to release those last two songs, particularly the  third Lennon song
Now an Then, because according to two Beatle engineers, and others, McCartney finished that song about two or three years
ago, with all the editing, and overdubs, and its' been sitting on his shelf, for a couple years, for no reason, that I can understand.
I do unerstand, that when those sessions took place, and McCartney finished the record, there was an enormous amount
of emotion, curiosity, and joy on the part of the engineers, who strongly believed it should and would be heard.

[Wirestone]

I was always sad the third song didn't come out. I felt like it made the third volume of the Anthology seem incomplete.

But a new album? Produced by Jeff Lynne? Somehow, even if they had considered it more seriously, or written together more, or gotten along better, I just can't see it.

The Beatles were one group -- one group among so many -- that managed to wrap things up exactly right. You don't get better than the second side of Abbey Road. Anything else is unnecessary.

[18thofMay]

Has this or these songs seen the light of day. free as a bird and Real love are the only ones I have heard.

[Mikie]

"Now and Then" wasn't the only song that was worked on by the three Beatles and considered for Anthology 3. A song called "Grow Old With Me" was also worked on. Another song written by Paul and George called "All for Love", was also recorded by the three Beatles at those sessions but wasn't finished.  

Macca says he wants to complete "Now and Then" with Ringo and it'll probably come out one of these days.

[Jay]

I've never heard about them wanting to do a whole album. I think Paul McCartney might have gone along with that. He seemed to have wanted some type of reunion. I have heard/read that the reason that there was no third song is because George and Paul couldn't get along. They allegedly tried to write a song together, but it ended in arguments. The other songs they allegedly worked on was Grow Old With Me(a Lennon demo), Now and Then(a GREAT Lennon demo)*, and an original song written by Paul and George. I think that the surviving three could have put together a pretty decent album. Personally, I think it would have been kind of morbid if they had tried to use John's voice on other songs though.

*The demo of Now and Then is in rough sound quality. There is a fair amount of hiss and distortion. There is also a rather annoying buzzing sound throughout the recording. The story goes that they tried to clean up the recording, but the technology of the time(1994-95) couldn't fix the buzzing sound, and the tape was deemed unusable.

[Jay]

Sorry Mikie, I didn't realise that you beat me to it. 

[Lonely Summer]

Paul has always been gung ho Beatles, you can see it in the Anthology interviews, where he is always "up", always promoting his role in the group. George's feelings were much more mixed. After hanging out with Dylan and The Band, it was a drag to go back to the Fabs and be treated like the little kid brother. As a result, we got ATMP. Do you think this changed the way John and Paul looked at George? I doubt it. So I can't see the reunited Fabs working together for long. The way they did it was just right, with the exception of no new song for the third Anthology album. And I would've been fine if the third song was solely a creation of Macca/Harry/Starkey. Wouldn't be the first time there was a Beatles track with only 2 or 3 Beatles on it.

[vintagemusic]

I've never heard about them wanting to do a whole album. I think Paul McCartney might have gone along with that. He seemed to have wanted some type of reunion. I have heard/read that the reason that there was no third song is because George and Paul couldn't get along. They allegedly tried to write a song together, but it ended in arguments. The other songs they allegedly worked on was Grow Old With Me(a Lennon demo), Now and Then(a GREAT Lennon demo)*, and an original song written by Paul and George. I think that the surviving three could have put together a pretty decent album. Personally, I think it would have been kind of morbid if they had tried to use John's voice on other songs though.

*The demo of Now and Then is in rough sound quality. There is a fair amount of hiss and distortion. There is also a rather annoying buzzing sound throughout the recording. The story goes that they tried to clean up the recording, but the technology of the time(1994-95) couldn't fix the buzzing sound, and the tape was deemed unusable.

If the story of Now and Then being abanoned by a buzzing tape with a hum, was ever true in the first place, its not true now. for several years clean
copies with no hiss, buzz or hum have circulated on the internet. I offered to send clean copies I found on the internet to both Yoko Ono and Mark Hudson, Both
told me they were certain they already had the cleanest tapes, but gave me addresses to mail to their engineers just in case. which I did.

Now and Then,  was supposedly finished about 2-3 years ago, according to two of the original Beatles engineers, by McCartney at his Mill studio.
One engineer worked on some of the sessions, the other one heard the finished recording afterwards, both engineers were very excited and awed
and these were Beatles engineers! So why this finished track just sits, for 2-3 years makes no sense to me, McCartney also made many hi proifile


public remarks about releasing Carnival of Light in 2008. Saying he had a master copy of this beatles 67 session at home,

[Mikie]

Yep, "Now & Then" is out there....... 

The 22-27 minute jam of Healter Skelter could have been released on Anthology but George Martin deemed it "boring".

Some people who've heard Carnival of Light say it isn't as great as it's been hyped up to be.

[vintagemusic]

Yep, "Now & Then" is out there....... 

The 22-27 minute jam of Healter Skelter could have been released on Anthology but George Martin deemed it "boring".

Some people who've heard Carnival of Light say it isn't as great as it's been hyped up to be.

There is also the Jackie Lomax Sour Milk Sea, with a Harrison guide vocal on the multitracks they could use to get
a great lost white album beatles song, (except for Lennon) or if they have too, they can pull Harrisons demo vocal
from Esher, and adapt it with protools to fit the Lomax backing track with Ringo and McCartney and Clapton


A mix of Christmas time is here again, with just the song, and not all the talking would be great, and  maybe the All For Love
song, (after all 3 days is a lot of time) has enough on their to use.    Maybe Carnival of Light isin't that great, just think of a
McCartney version of Revolution nine,,,, besides the original mix, maybe a five minute mix of the most interesting bits would
cool,

I dont think there is enough money in just expanding the Anthology   "now with added bonus tracks"    My thought is,  if they have
maybe four new tracks of quality, say Now and Then, All For Love, Carnival Of Light and Sour Milk Sea, they pair those along with
Free AS A Bird, and Real Love, (remixed with the higher fidelity demo that surfaced, cleaner sound on Lennons voice) and the so
called Sessions songs, all remixed in the best possible fidelity,, most of the sessions songs wefre used on Anthology, but a revived
sessions album with the inclusion of Free AS a Bird, Real Love, and four or five of the last unknown songs, that could really sell


An album like that would give you two things, one it would have a few new tracks, the last new tracks,  and it would fix the botched

job of bad mixes on the ANthology, and second it would collect on one album all the remaining studio tracks, that arent found on
either the regular albums, or the past masters, it would allow you to have every song, if you had the regular canon, the past masters
and  this new album. Then any remaining alternate takes like Helter Skelter 27 min, could be offered as the bonus tracks for Anthology
one day, that would become more the alternate takes album, and the new album would become more the sessions unreleased songs
album. If that convoluted explanation makes sense to anyone.

[Jay]

If they were to release Now and Then, I'd rather it be the work in progress 1994-95 version. Having Paul and Ringo go into the studio with some isolated guitar and vocals from George is even more extreme than what they did with Lennon's demo's.

[pixletwin]

RINGO 1973 is about the closest we will ever get to a true Beatles reunion; and what a great reunion it was. I love that album.

[vintagemusic]

RINGO 1973 is about the closest we will ever get to a true Beatles reunion; and what a great reunion it was. I love that album.

Well that's true and yet it isin't. True six of the ten tracks feature a second beatle. They all appear on the (1973 Ringo LP)
one track, the opening number "I'm The Greatest features Ringo, Lennon on harmony vocal and piano, and Harrison on guitar
along with Klaus Voorman on Bass, and Billy Preston on Organ, Richard Perry's production is somewhat Beatlesque.

However, Free As A Bird, Real Love, Now and Then and All For Love, are the actual reunion, featuring all four Beatles on tape
and three in the flesh, they also recorded, Blue Moon Of Kentucky, Baby What You Want Me To Do, Raunchy, Aint She sweet
and Thinking of Linking, all live at Harrisons house, and in the film.

I would say, that was the reunion......

As for Now and Then, I personally prefer to reserve judgement until I hear it, apparently the Beatle engineers who worked on
and or heard it, were quite impressed, and emotionally moved. So who are we to dispute that before hearing it.

Also there was the song, All Those Years ago, which features, Harrison, Starr and McCartney on the recording, and also George
Martin and Geoff Emerick were in attendence, possibly Martin had something to do with refining that Beatley string line.

An interesting caveat to that "All Those Years ago" session, in recent years we have learned, and MCCartney has admitted on the
record, that, originally Harrison was supposed to play on McCartney's song "wanderlust" from the Tug Of War sessions, which would
in fact have made the Tug Of War album a Threetles reunion of sorts, and George Martin and Geoff Emerick, but Harrison demurred
and declined to play on Wanderlust, after McCartney sang his parts on "all Those Years Ago" which of course was a song about
John Lennon, recorded shortly after Lennon's death in tribute. The track had been cut earlier with Ringo, but the lyrics were
written after Lennon's death.

[pixletwin]

Please note I said "closest thing to a true reunion"... I understand what you are saying. But there is a difference between an album which all four LIVING members had a hand in making as opposed to 2 songs recorded by a man who had been dead and overdubbed decades later by his mates. You can't use the argument that a b and C play tracks w,x, and y; where as c and d only played on track z therefore it was not really a reunion - simply because that's how many actual Beatles albums were made. So....?

[JohnMill]

I've never heard about them wanting to do a whole album. I think Paul McCartney might have gone along with that. He seemed to have wanted some type of reunion. I have heard/read that the reason that there was no third song is because George and Paul couldn't get along. They allegedly tried to write a song together, but it ended in arguments. The other songs they allegedly worked on was Grow Old With Me(a Lennon demo), Now and Then(a GREAT Lennon demo)*, and an original song written by Paul and George. I think that the surviving three could have put together a pretty decent album. Personally, I think it would have been kind of morbid if they had tried to use John's voice on other songs though.

*The demo of Now and Then is in rough sound quality. There is a fair amount of hiss and distortion. There is also a rather annoying buzzing sound throughout the recording. The story goes that they tried to clean up the recording, but the technology of the time(1994-95) couldn't fix the buzzing sound, and the tape was deemed unusable.

If the story of Now and Then being abanoned by a buzzing tape with a hum, was ever true in the first place, its not true now. for several years clean
copies with no hiss, buzz or hum have circulated on the internet. I offered to send clean copies I found on the internet to both Yoko Ono and Mark Hudson, Both
told me they were certain they already had the cleanest tapes, but gave me addresses to mail to their engineers just in case. which I did.

Now and Then,  was supposedly finished about 2-3 years ago, according to two of the original Beatles engineers, by McCartney at his Mill studio.
One engineer worked on some of the sessions, the other one heard the finished recording afterwards, both engineers were very excited and awed
and these were Beatles engineers! So why this finished track just sits, for 2-3 years makes no sense to me, McCartney also made many hi proifile


public remarks about releasing Carnival of Light in 2008. Saying he had a master copy of this beatles 67 session at home,

Of all The Beatles holy grails (The 27 minute "Helter Skelter", "Carnival Of Light", scores of alternate versions of familiar tracks), it is the music that was recorded during the 1994/1995 reunion sessions which I believe should hold the most interest to fans.  While Mark Lewisohn's groundbreaking book "The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions" detail every session at EMI Studios during the sixties, it's amazing to think there are another cache of Beatles sessions (and yes I said Beatles as I've never been a fan of the term Threetles) from the mid nineties of which comparatively speaking we know little about.

What we do know about them is very intriguing to say the least.  First off given the historical importance of these sessions, they were painstaking recorded in detail.  In addition to the work that obviously exists on the multi-track tapes, the sessions were also obviously videotaped to some degree and I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was some type of "diary tape" running at all times to capture the sessions for posterity.  The bottom line is that a wealth of material has to exist from these sessions and the importance of this material historically speaking cannot be understated.  

In regards to "Now And Then":  There is confirmation via Jeff Lynne in regards to "Now And Then" that there is a rough backing track in existence from at least one of these sessions.  One of the things that is most frustrating about the reunion sessions is there is almost no viable timetable for what was recorded and when outside of ascribing song titles to dates most of which come from contemporary press articles which at many times can be inaccurate.  For example it wasn't until 2008 when we got first hand confirmation from Peter Hodgson that the existence of a Harrison-McCartney song entitled "All For Love" that the existence of that song made the transition from being rumor to fact.

Outside of the confirmation from Jeff Lynne regarding the existence of a rough "Now And Then" backing track I've found it hard to pin down any other airtight statements regarding exactly how much work was done on the song in 94/95.  I've never been able to find any evidence that any of the sessions included vocal work on the song which is astounding given that according to the aforementioned contemporary reports "Now And Then" was basically worked on during every reunion session, including sessions up until late March of 1995 leaving Beatles fans to wonder what exactly was the band doing with their time in the studio?

There are also conflicting reports as to why "Now And Then" was scrapped.  The two most popular reports center around "the infamous hum" on John's original demo tape and the poor chart performance of the other reunion singles which allegedly soured George Harrison on working on anymore Lennon demos.  Vintage Music has already made comment on the infamous hum so I'll focus on the second report regarding Harrison's aversion to continuing on with any further Beatles sessions.  If it was indeed the poor chart performance that motivated the scrapping of any further sessions, it would lead one to speculate that further sessions were at least being considered well after the release of the first and possibly second volumes of the "Anthology" project.  It would also torpedo the theory that the sessions broke down due to a rift between George and Paul during the sessions themselves.  

One final footnote on a possible mid nineties fallout between George and Paul before I move on: There was a report out several years ago ostensibly based on an interview given by Paul McCartney where he mentioned that after the reunion sessions he made several attempts to reach out to work with both Ringo Starr and George Harrison.  Ringo was receptive (the cuts on "Flaming Pie" for example) and George wasn't.  I've never been able to find confirmation of this alleged comment from Paul McCartney so I'm not sure if it's accurate or not but if it's true it would lend credence to the fall out theory.

In regards to "All For Love": As little information as there is available on "Now And Then" there is almost nothing available on "All For Love"  Again if not for the confirmation of Peter Hodgson in 2008, even the existence of such a track would have to be called into question as nobody within the reunion sessions loop has ever commented publicly on the existence of "All For Love".  The track is often ascribed to the final reunion sessions from May of 1995 which saw the completion of "Real Love".  Contemporary press articles somewhat predictably conflict with one another in regards to this track with "Beatles Monthly" calling the track "complete" whereas Keith Badman terms the sessions for the track as being "aborted".  Now somewhere between completion and abortion lies the truth but exactly where is unknown.  

The closest thing we have to confirmation as to some type of accurate timeline in regards to the song comes once again from Hodgson who visited Paul in late March of 1995 where McCartney confirmed the recent penning of a song with George Harrison entitled "All For Love".  This was date the song's creation to March of 1995 (perhaps during the sessions of March 20th & 21st) which would tie into the song's alleged recording date two months later in May.  One could speculate being that nothing has ever been said of the song publicly by anyone within Camp Beatles means that the song probably doesn't exist in any type of releaseable form.

In regards to Vintage Music's comments about potential "Beatles/Threetles" releases that never happened:  I personally chalk any discussion about any potential post-Anthology work by Harrison, Starr and McCartney to something that was always going to be a pipe dream.  I know Paul McCartney made mention at least one time that at least in his mind there was potential for some future work by the trio post-Anthology but I think the physical absence of John Lennon would have always prevented any substantial project from moving forward.  George Harrison once noted that it was a policy within The Beatles that if any one member was absent from the group that the group couldn't reform and call themselves "The Beatles".  But it actually goes much deeper than just some arbitrary policy as there was obviously some deep emotional issues regarding the trio performing without John.  

Something that is rarely mentioned but worth noting is that during the one reunion session at Friar Park in June of 1994  (the one that was filmed extensively for the Anthology including group interviews and jams) is that that session was ostensibly organized under the premise that Paul, George and Ringo were going to re-record "Let It Be".  

Camera crews were obviously booked for this occasion and I think there were even reports that this performance of "Let It Be" was supposed to be the finale to the "Anthology" television special itself.  However, once the trio assembled at Friar Park, these plans were quickly abandoned due large in part to the fact that the absence of John Lennon was too overwhelming for the band to attempt a new recording without him.  Is it beyond the stretch of the imagination that similar issues may have torpedoed "All For Love" as well?


Finally in regards to Vintage Music's comments regarding further work being done on "Now And Then" by Paul McCartney after the passing of George Harrison in 2001:  I would be most interested if you can find a source that either names the engineers who worked on the song or at least ascribes the comments you made mention of to engineers who worked on the song.  The reason being is that while Paul McCartney has been quoted in the press several times about his appreciation for "Now And Then" and his desire to complete it there has been no confirmation as to any further post mid nineties work being done on the song outside of anonymous sources which detail events much like the ones you reported in your post (the song is now completed, McCartney added new parts, George Harrison is both musically/vocally evident on the recording).  However, being anonymous sources, the very nature of their statements are open to all sorts of interpretation.  Therefore if you have similar reports of post mid-nineties work done on "Now And Then" with those reports being ascribed to something other than anonymous sources, well that would be very interesting to say the least.

[Mikie]

Good post, John Mill!

Vintage and John, concerning the leak of "Revolution 1 (Take 20)", which combines "Revolution 1" and "a version of "Revolution 9" into a long drawn out extended psychedelic nightmarish song. According to Lewisohn’s book, only two copies of the take were made when recording the song was completed in June, 1968. One copy left the studio with Lennon that day, and the other remained behind.

Do you guys think it should remain in bootleg form for the fans or formally released with the aforementioned songs at some point?

[hypehat]

I love that take - I don't think it's a mix of the two songs, is it? I mean, the legend goes that the master take of Revolution got a bit silly and they chopped off the jam to make #9, which that take supports.

That's the sort of thing the Anthology should have released as opposed to a sodding alternate take of Blackbird or identical mixes of Glass Onion. I'd love to have it as an official release.

[vintagemusic]

Good post, John Mill!

Vintage and John, concerning the leak of "Revolution 1 (Take 20)", which combines "Revolution 1" and "a version of "Revolution 9" into a long drawn out extended psychedelic nightmarish song. According to Lewisohn’s book, only two copies of the take were made when recording the song was completed in June, 1968. One copy left the studio with Lennon that day, and the other remained behind.

Do you guys think it should remain in bootleg form for the fans or formally released with the aforementioned songs at some point?

John Mill great post, I've sent you some information privately, that may be interesting to you, feel free to message me.

Mikie, in a way it's moot, because the bootleg is such high quality, I personally don't care about Revolution take 20, but there
are lots of people who do. So yes I think in some fashion it should come out, as to whether it's with the other songs/material
we have been speaking of, that depends how they would do it. A totally new compilation album of some kind ? or simply bonus
tracks to the three existing Anthology albums?

The problem is, neither the Beatles, the Beatle widows, the record company, Mark Lewishon, or anybody else (Jeff Lynne, Giles Martin)
no one will even give a straight answer as to what exactly exists or what their plans might be.

Over time we learn things accidentally, but it's like pulling teeth, obviously a lot of people want to know exactly what remains in the
vaults, a lot of people want to hear what we know is there for sure, and we can't get a straight answer.

People had high hopes when Jeff Jones was appointed at Apple, why? because Jones had a long history of compiling archival
releases of previously unknown material, he has been enthroned at Apple for years now, and hasn't done anything in that regard
zip nada. Of Course it's not really his choice, the choice belongs to McCartney, Starr, Ono and the Harrisons.

We know McCartney is in favor of releasing this stuff, heck he went through all the trouble of numerous sessions to finish
Now and Then, it's kind of obvious he wants it out, and he said publicly he wanted Carnival of Light out in 2008. So why would
he object to Revolution 20?

Either there is a plan to release this stuff and we don't know about it, or someone else is preventing it.

Mark Lewishon could fill in most of the blanks, he had carte blanche access to the recorded archives when he wrote the book
and he was in the loop during the Anthology period.

As John Mill stated, obviously the most coveted stuff, would be additional reunion songs, and Carnival of light, and a few things
like that., By the way, hen john Mill explained how we accidentally finally found out about the song by McCartney/Harrison called
"ALL FOR LOVE" that wiped page has disappeared! we had photos, eyewitness testimony in some great detail, poof gone.

Somebody is trying hard to suppress all this stuff, there are only two reasons to suppress it, one because anytime now, maybe
for the 50th anniversary, the Beatle people are gonna lay this great new thing on us, or second just the opposite, they have
no intention or concern what the fans may want, and they are trying to shut all information and talk about it down..

Yes it should come out, if there isn't room on a new compilation album because it's so long and unconventional, then it should
be a bonus track or B side or something like that.

By the way, there is a new story, unconfirmed, at Wogblog, that people at Apple are hustling really hard, trying to come up
with some kind of release to celebrate fifty years of the Beatles, later this year, as the first single "Love Me Do" turns fifty.

It makes me wonder what those people do over there all day, it's just dawning on them now, that Love me Do the first Beatle
record is about to turn fifty? wouldn't that be their job to know things like that over there?

If the people over there are that disconnected from the history and the landmark dates, I wouldn't give out much hope they
are gonna do much of anything.

One time their big release was a $300 writing pen to celebrate the White album. I can't tell you how disappointing that was
now $300 for the pen, the White Demos, and A studio version of Sour Milk Sea might have been okay, but just pen?

[JohnMill]

Okay before I begin, a little forewarning: This post is going to be quite scattered as I'm going to touch on a lot of different things.  A lot of what I write is also going to be boiled down to speculation because quite frankly there really aren't hard answers available to a lot of the questions raised in these issues.  I hope that at least some Beatlemaniacs will find some of the following interesting or useful:

Yoko Ono & Olivia Harrison on the prospect of releasing "Now And Then": First off I think it's fair to assume that the two surviving Beatles (The Twotles ugh!) aren't necessarily opposed to the future release of unreleased Beatles music specifically in regards to the track "Now And Then".  McCartney as detailed has come out in the press several times in favor of releasing the track and I personally have a hard time seeing Ringo Starr voicing a major opposition to the release of any further Beatles archival material.

That being said, it brings us to the two other people in Camp Beatle who have veto power as far as any potential future releases by the band: Yoko Ono & Olivia Harrison.  To both women's credit they have both gone on the record with their feelings about a potential future release on "Now And Then" with Yoko's quotes being the more interesting of the two.  Yoko went on record in 2005 speaking about The Beatles reunion tracks and specifically "Now And Then":

Yoko Ono: Because these songs were to come from the Beatles. The Beatles will be singing to the world again. The implication of that was tremendous. I thought, this was a song which would release people from their sorrow of losing John. By listening to the song, they will eventually be able to release their sorrow and arrive at an understanding that, actually, John is not lost to them. Paul, George and Ringo lost a great friend as well. If they sung this song from their hearts it would have helped many people around the world who felt the same.

"I sent those songs to them when the situation was quite different," she said from her home in New York. "Now that George is gone, I don't know if the same would apply. I will consider the possibility, that is, when I get the call."

Ironically it is Yoko Ono herself who perhaps makes the most cogent argument for the eventual release of "Now And Then".  Something that always struck me about the two tracks that The Beatles chose to release in the mid nineties as reunion singles is that both of them were essentially upbeat and happy tracks.  "Now And Then" evidently isn't and Yoko Ono describes it's tone perfectly in the above quote.  I agree with her 100% that it would offer something different from a emotional perspective to Beatles fans regarding not only the loss of John but George Harrison as well.  The Beatles I believe mean so much to so many different people and "Now And Then" is one of those beautiful haunting songs that I believe could both mean a great deal and be a fitting epilogue to arguably the greatest rock group in history.

As to any possible aversion Yoko Ono might have towards a potential future release of "Now And Then".  My feeling is that Ono will always desire proprietary say in anything involving her late husband.  While I know that Yoko Ono has been extremely invested in the promotion of the legacy of John Lennon, I've never been able to get an accurate read as to exactly what Yoko's feelings are regarding the legacy of The Beatles.  Is she in favor of future releases of music featuring John Lennon from the "Beatle era" or not?  If I had to cast my vote in one direction I would say it would be something she would be in favor of.  I base this assumption given that she provided George, Paul and Ringo with the rough demos on which to base the reunion recordings to begin with coupled with another assumption that if McCartney has indeed been working on "Now And Then" over the past several years he would have not done so without Ono's permission.  There would after all be little point in recording something like this if he knew in advance it would never have the chance of finding release.  I actually would not be at all surprised that if the rumors are true regarding McCartney finishing "Now And Then" if Ono doesn't already have a copy in her possession.  

Also of note is a careful perusal of Ono's quote reveals that the only time she voices reservations about a potential future release for "Now And Then" is where/when it pertains to George Harrison not John Lennon.  Am I alone in taking this comment as reading that she herself is not necessarily opposed to the release of the track but is unsure herself whether or not the others with veto power feel the same?

That being said Olivia Harrison also made comment about the potential release of "Now And Then":

Olivia Harrison: "Well, I don't know that much about it. But I know that if they thought something wasn't good enough then that's probably the reason no one's heard it. You know, if they never got around to it -- sometimes that's it, time runs out."

Quite frankly I don't know exactly what to take from all that.  She claims not to know much about the situation surrounding the recording of the track which is evident in her unfamiliarity with the details surrounding it's recording.  She does however make what seems to me to be a very odd statement about it "not being good enough" but in saying that she opens up the door to another question which is even if the track as left in 1995 wasn't good enough, does it necessarily mean that it can never be good enough especially if McCartney has finished it?  Perhaps it wasn't good enough in 1995 simply because of the fact it wasn't finished?  

Is something rotten in Camp Beatle?:  Moving onto another matter (somewhat anyhow), there seems to be an issue surrounding Camp Beatle which has denied Beatles fans any true further archival releases since the release of the "Anthology" series in the mid nineties.  While it would be foolish to deny that there something amiss, defining what that issue may be is actually quite complicated.

When it comes to The Beatles there seems to be a "branding issue" in that there is a belief among Beatles fans that Camp Beatle (or certain parties within Camp Beatle) believes that any future release bearing the name of the group has to be some type of landmark issue which will be met with great fanfare from all corners of the globe.  If this is true, it would essentially explain why there hasn't been any archival releases from The Beatles since "Anthology" as quite frankly there isn't anything left in The Beatles archives that would be met with that amount of widespread fanfare.  

Most of what is left in The Beatles' archives is along the lines of what was found on the "Anthology" albums specifically a large cache of studio work pertaining to the recording of every Beatles song in the catalog.  The problem is The Beatles were never a band whose rough drafts deviated much from their final product.  Additionally the selection of roughs which did deviate from the final product are for the most part already on the "Anthology".  So in that context one can understand why Paul McCartney once termed any post-Anthology archival releases as being "scraping the bottom of the barrel" although it should be noted he was in no way himself opposed to potential future releases.

The problem is there obviously haven't been any future releases and equally frustrating is outside of the "brand issue" there really has been no explanation as to why.  There have even been reports that there has been internal work done by Camp Beatle on a number of interesting projects none of which have found release which essentially brings us back to square one as to what or whom is blocking these releases from getting to the fans?

In my opinion right now The Beatles are sitting on four potential future issues that would be met with warm reception from both general and hardcore fans.  These four releases would be: The Beatles Live At The Hollywood Bowl (1977 Capitol Album)/Let It Be DVD & Blu-Ray/Kinfauns demos/Xmas Flexis.  All of these releases could be released tomorrow and be easily marketed to the public as a live Beatles album, the acoustic white album, The Beatles Christmas Records and the first release of the "Let It Be" film in digital format.

In addition should they ever chose to market a series of releases specifically to the hardcore fanbase that would open up literally a world of possibilities from an on-demand subscription website where fans could download Beatles sessions at will to a series such as Dylan's Bootleg Series.  

The problem is that right now all of this is merely a pipe dream and what is equally disturbing is they are the only major act of their era that has stonewalled their hardcore fanbase in this manner which has lead more than one Beatle fan to wonder just what is going on behind the scenes that we don't know about that may be preventing the releases we crave from getting to us?

[vintagemusic]

I wonder if Dhani Harrison, or Olivia Harrison, is making the decisions now. with their vote
on the Apple Board.

John Mill, I remember that Quote of Olivia Harrison's very well with the "sometimes time just runs out"
what a totally uncool answer on her part.

I suspect, or my educated guess on Now And Then would be, that quite possibly, McCartney
would have needed to write some verse or bridge lyrics, at least in places to flesh out a
finished record. While listening to a finished record, although Lennon would perhaps be the
primary lead vocalist, perhaps McCartney by necessity would be a co-lead vocalist, because of
holes in the demo, I wonder, I hate to even say this, could Olivia Harrison, be the sort of person
petty enough, to deny millions of fans the right to hear the song, because McCartney wrote four
lines of lyrics and Harrison didn't?

I don't want to go there, I prefer to think the song is just around the corner as part of some new
compilation album, to celebrate the upcoming Beatles 50Th anniversary.


I disagree with John Mill on one point, while I agree the Beatles Christmas album, a refurbished Let it Be DVD
the White album demo's could all be nice releases, I don't think they would have any edge on , hypothetically now
The Beatles sessions album with new mixes on the fifteen unreleased songs that appeared on Anthology, plus
Free As A Bird, Real Love and four or five new songs, Now and Then, Carnival of Light, Sour Milk Sea, All For Love
and maybe a bonus disc of videos for some of those songs,

That's another release by the way that would be nice, all the Beatles Promo Films on one DVD. Officially there are only
about a dozen of the Beatles promo films, Hey Jude, Revolution, Strawberry Fields etc etc. But there are another
fifty really, some were made for Anthology, plus all the song videos in the films, plus some of the early black and white
ones like Day Tripper and We Can Work it out, and some other newer ones, like Two Of Us from Let it Be Naked, it would
be great to have all those in high resolution in one set. But the last new Beatles song in history trumps the Christmas album
or Live at Shea in my opinion.

[Mikie]

Agreed. 'Let It Be' needs to be given the same treatment as the 'Hard Day's Night' and 'Help!' DVD's. I can't figure out why they haven't formally released this yet after all these years. Is Macca holding it up? A cleaned up formal release of the Shea Stadium concert would be nice on DVD. Beatles Ed Sullivan Shows would be nice. Excellent versions of 'The Beatles Live At The Hollywood Bowl' and 'Beatles Christmas Album' were issued on CD by Dr. Ebbetts, but a formal release would be nice for the completist. Same with 'Get Back Sessions' and the 'Rooftop concert'. The acoustic 'White' has been booted but I dunno about a formal release. Same with the Escher demos. Best of the Get Back and Abbey Rd. Sessions would be nice. Lots of material there!

[JohnMill]

One last point on "Now And Then":  Does anyone else find it weird that given all the opportunities that Yoko Ono has had since the reunion sessions to release the original Lennon demo of "Now And Then" officially that it still remains unheard by the general public?  I mean think about it: "Lennon Anthology", the 2001-2005 reissues, "Lennon Signature" all contained several unreleased Lennon demos yet none of these packages included "Now And Then".

Ono did sanction use of the song in 2005 musicial "Lennon" (along with another at that time unreleased Lennon demo "India India").  "India India" was subsequently released on "Lennon Signature" in 2010, "Now And Then" was not.  

I guess I'm wondering if there is a reason why "Now And Then" has yet to appear on any John Lennon archival package?  It's obvious that Yoko Ono has affection for the song given the fact she donated it to the reunion sessions project as well as sanctioning it for use in the 2005 musical.  I wonder if it is being held back because Ono knows there are bigger plans in the works for this particular song and doesn't want to damage it's potential commercial appeal by officially issuing the demo beforehand?

[Wirestone]

Beatles Ed Sullivan Shows

Already out.

[Mikie]

I have the 4 Complete Sullivan shows on DVD that came out a couple of years ago, but you gotta wade through the other crap to get to the good stuff. I need to make a new DVD and edit the commercials and other stuff out. I'm not interested in the non-Beatles stuff.

[Jay]

I have the 4 Complete Sullivan shows on DVD that came out a couple of years ago, but you gotta wade through the other crap to get to the good stuff. I need to make a new DVD and edit the commercials and other stuff out. I'm not interested in the non-Beatles stuff.

There has been a reissue of the Ed Sullivan episodes that The Beatles did, and it gives you the option of watching the complete original episodes as they aired(complete with commercials), or you can just watch the portions with The Beatles.