Is Rock Dead? :/

[Chocolate Shake Man]

there is plenty of good rock out there, you just have to find it

I think that suggests that it is dead, actually.

Touche but just because it isnt on the cover of rolling stone or playing on top 40 doesnt mean its dead.

No, but I suppose by "dead", I just mean irrelevant. If rock music were still relevant it would be impossible to avoid knowing about - even if you were a stodgy old man who actively hated it!

[meltedwhiskeyinmyhand]

there is plenty of good rock out there, you just have to find it

I think that suggests that it is dead, actually.

Touche but just because it isnt on the cover of rolling stone or playing on top 40 doesnt mean its dead.

No, but I suppose by "dead", I just mean irrelevant. If rock music were still relevant it would be impossible to avoid knowing about - even if you were a stodgy old man who actively hated it!

to tell the truth, I think I kinda like it that way

[Ron]

Rock isn't dead, they just call it "Hip Hop" now.  It's still very alive.  When Jay Z does what he does, it's the same spirit/vibe/etc. that Little Richard had when he did what he did. 


Just as many haters, too. 

[Newguy562]

Rock isn't dead, they just call it "Hip Hop" now.  It's still very alive.  When Jay Z does what he does, it's the same spirit/vibe/etc. that Little Richard had when he did what he did. 


Just as many haters, too. 

Jay-Z will never be "Rock"!

[Ron]

Jay Z is the DEFINITION of Rock.  It's a mindset, not a chord progression. 

[Newguy562]

Jay Z is the DEFINITION of Rock.  It's a mindset, not a chord progression. 

NO HE ISN'T!..HE'S THE DEFINITION OF A HUSTLER!

[KokoNO]

Mainstream rock acts (and the radio stations that play them) are completely crap today. However, the amount of great material being produced in the indie scene is far above anything we've seen in previous decades. The multitude of labels and the easy access to equipment/internet promotion have led rock music (and all of its sub-genres) to really be in its artistic prime at the moment. Just looking at all of the albums getting votes in year-end countdowns like the Pazz and Jop poll or a site like Pitchfork really shows just how much great music is out there nowadays.

It's just such a shame that the major labels and rock radio are catering to the RAWK! crowd which is giving us bands on the level of Nickelback - completely unimaginative and devoid of any real talent.

So, no, rock isn't dead. It's just not what the kids are buying.

[KokoNO]

Jay Z is the DEFINITION of Rock.  It's a mindset, not a chord progression. 

You're absolutely right. There's a reason that Grandmaster Flash is in the Rock Hall of Fame and so are Same Cooke, The Supremes and ABBA. Rock encompasses the groundbreaking music that really, truly means something. Most hip-hop definitely would not qualify because some third rate rapper muttering some nonsense over lame beats about doing chicks, making cash and being better than other people is hardly the idea of what rock is and is about as bland and uninspired as modern country music. But someone like Jay-Z or Kanye West that is totally redefining perceptions of what music can be, breaking ground with all sorts of new sounds (and in Jay-Z's case, having mind blowing wordplay. Check out his book just to see how genius some of his lyrics are.) and actually saying something meaningful.

Just as country birthed us Johnny Cash and jazz gave us Miles Davis, so too is Jay-Z a future rock and roll Hall of Famer and part of the upper echelon of what this movement is all about.

[Newguy562]

Jay Z is the DEFINITION of Rock.  It's a mindset, not a chord progression. 

You're absolutely right. There's a reason that Grandmaster Flash is in the Rock Hall of Fame and so are Same Cooke, The Supremes and ABBA. Rock encompasses the groundbreaking music that really, truly means something. Most hip-hop definitely would not qualify because some third rate rapper muttering some nonsense over lame beats about doing chicks, making cash and being better than other people is hardly the idea of what rock is and is about as bland and uninspired as modern country music. But someone like Jay-Z or Kanye West that is totally redefining perceptions of what music can be, breaking ground with all sorts of new sounds (and in Jay-Z's case, having mind blowing wordplay. Check out his book just to see how genius some of his lyrics are.) and actually saying something meaningful.

Just as country birthed us Johnny Cash and jazz gave us Miles Davis, so too is Jay-Z a future rock and roll Hall of Famer and part of the upper echelon of what this movement is all about.

meaningful? he has a few tracks that are meaningful but most of his career was about hustling..he has great metaphors and an awesome wordplay but he rapped more about flashy sh*t then anything else.
but these songs are definitely the songs that stoodout in his catalog...check em out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-ViBZKfF5M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ53S5ZJKnc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOdcw-eCIMw

[KokoNO]

Drug dealing was what he did for ages when he was younger though and when he first started rapping. So it does mean a lot considering what he went through. Agreed that his wordplay is fantastic, but it's mostly his great songwriting and knack for poppier material and great beats (he does have the record for most top ten hits from a rapper) that really put him up into the stratosphere. Also, he's arguably the most gifted rhymer in the history of hip-hop with a flow that just amazes no matter the song.

[Newguy562]

Drug dealing was what he did for ages when he was younger though and when he first started rapping. So it does mean a lot considering what he went through. Agreed that his wordplay is fantastic, but it's mostly his great songwriting and knack for poppier material and great beats (he does have the record for most top ten hits from a rapper) that really put him up into the stratosphere. Also, he's arguably the most gifted rhymer in the history of hip-hop with a flow that just amazes no matter the song.

as far as flow goes i can only name 1 other rapper that can top him lyrically (Eminem) i'm not a fan of his at all but the way he puts his words together is almost unbelievable ..now jay-z has a better selection of beats and more of a trendsetter i admit that...he's definitely in my top 10 but i stopped listening to rap seriously a long time ago. as for his last album "watch the throne" it was mediocre. did you hear those amazing songs before?(the ones i posted)

[KokoNO]

I hadn't to be honest. Those are some killer tracks.

[SMiLE Brian]

Rap is not rock.

[hypehat]

Rock is a constantly evolving form, though. Why shouldn't it incorporate rap?

IDK, we live in interesting times. Genres overlap all the time, and this sort of division might not be helpful.

[rab2591]

I'd definitely consider 99 problems a rock song.

PS: to all the Jay Z fans here....this is a phenomenal remix of Jay Z's 99 Problems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2M0m5Fg0IY

[Newguy562]

I'd definitely consider 99 problems a rock song.

PS: to all the Jay Z fans here....this is a phenomenal remix of Jay Z's 99 Problems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2M0m5Fg0IY

rick rubin definitely gave that song a rock feel. but i like his songs that arent mainstream the only ones that was mainstream that i can listen to like the others are (excuse me miss,change clothes) thats about it

[rab2591]

I'd definitely consider 99 problems a rock song.

PS: to all the Jay Z fans here....this is a phenomenal remix of Jay Z's 99 Problems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2M0m5Fg0IY

rick rubin definitely gave that song a rock feel. but i like his songs that arent mainstream the only ones that was mainstream that i can listen to like the others are (excuse me miss,change clothes) thats about it

I only own The Black Album, and I have never listened to it all the way through. I'm not much of a JayZ fan.

I own nearly every Eminem album though - some of the best music I own. But I would consider very little, if any, of it "rock" - not that you insinuated that of course.

[the captain]

Anyone who is dedicated to keeping the definition of rock fixed--whatever that specific definition is--is destined to answer yes, rock is dead. The innovative creations or combinations that make up styles / trends are predestined to become old news, the music of your parents and grandparents, or an ingredient in future trends. And if they don't, then they become museum pieces. Nothing is going to remain fresh and rebellious and exciting for decades without changing. So if you define it as it was and are unwilling to change your definition, it is dead (or will soon will be, depending on what particular parameters you've decided on). I don't blame you if that's how you want to do it, it's just a matter of fate.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Rap is not rock.

Truth.

[the captain]

Is heavy metal rock? Is psychedelic music rock? Is rockabilly rock? Is RnB rock? Is prog rock?

What makes it rock? If it's instrumentation, then you can play country and call it rock, or blues and call it rock, etc. If it's a beat, you can have sampled beats and rap over them, or play tuba and mandolin instead of bass and guitar over it. If it's an attitude, then teenage angst and lust are rock, regardless of the details.

If [1956][1966][1976][whatever tickles your fancy] is rock, then it is dead.

[hypehat]

I do seem to say this rather a lot, but Luther is right!

[Alex]

I mean we have the classics which is just fine but how come rock isn't charting well anymore? :[
It's mostly Rap & Techno Influenced Pop that's hitting the top of the charts..
Do you think modern rock will have a revival or will it get worse?
Another thing I've noticed is i come across many people that wear band tee's(Led Zeppelin,The Doors,Pink Floyd,The Ramones) but don't even listen to any of those bands or even that genre of music. (It's not a fashion statement damn it!) ..it's annoying! Am I the only person this has happen too or noticed?

Rock is not dead, it's just referred to as "indie" music these days.

[the captain]

Indie properly just means status of the recording contract: a non-major label. There is indie hip hop, indie folk, etc.

(It's kind of a misnomer anyway, most of the time, considering that a lot of "indie" labels are owned or distributed by majors anyway.)

[Alex]

Indie properly just means status of the recording contract: a non-major label. There is indie hip hop, indie folk, etc.

(It's kind of a misnomer anyway, most of the time, considering that a lot of "indie" labels are owned or distributed by majors anyway.)

During the last few years the term "indie" has been co-opted by the major labels in the same way "alternative" was in the 90s. It's been bastardized to mean a style/genre instead of a status, and I'm just going to roll with the changes and use the term in its modern-day bastardized form.

[Phoenix]

I've been saying for years that Rock died in the mid-90's.  Groups of "noisy", untalented (or at least less talented) musicians with something to say have always been A part of the rock-n-roll landscape, from punk bands, going back to some of the less refined garage bands of the 50's and 60's but it was always treated as a niche market because the industry more or less followed the ideology that cream rose to the top.  Everything changed in the 90's when the same thing (noisier, less talented musicians with something to say) was marketed as something new: Grunge.  At that time, on the same day, all the "mainstream" Rock bands were lead out to pasture, regardless of how long they'd been around or how they sounded.  Reo Speedwagon, Jethro Tull, Blue Oyster Cult, etc, etc. were now "Classic Rock".  Tommy Shaw used to do a bit a Styx concerts about it.  ("I wasn't doing anything different but one night I went to bed a "rocker" and woke up a "classic rocker.") 

The problem was like most lesser talents with something to say, they didn't have much more to offer once they said what they wanted to.  And you can't really blame the artists.  Joe Stummer never wanted to be a "pop star".  Guys like him knew they're place in the grand tapestry of rock-n-roll.  Putting guys who had just one or two albums in them front and center, as heirs-to-the-thrones was suicide for the entertainment industry.  All those guys sweat and slept together in the same vans, working their asses off for ten years and when they got signed, they took their "TEN" best songs together and blew people away with their debut albums.  A couple years later, they took the best of which songs were left and that was their sophomore submission.  But when the time came to write a third album, their heads were so far removed from their origins (having lived the rock-n-roll lifestyle and being told they were rock-n-roll messiahs for several years), they just couldn't deliver and the suits moved on to milk the next thing (in the case of that first post-grunge wave: garbage pop and the resurgence of boy bands), and it's only gotten worse since.

Of course you have to understand that the guys running the rock labels had to do SOMEthing because Rock was pretty much ALREADY dead at the time.  Just like the Pop music of the 40's and before has continued to exist, Rock was still "there" but it's days of being an important force in the entertainment industry had been over for some time.  Rap "music" had already replaced it as "the voice of young America" but most of the remaining Rock fans were too stubborn to admit it.

Using myself as an example, my Grandfather listened to Big Band and Pop music's next big thing was to focus on the vocalists.  By the time the arrangements were smaller and more restrained than those used by the Big Bands who'd used vocalists previously, my dad was in with both feet and continued to follow that trend with later vocalists, even after that style was replaced by the "rock-n-roll combo."  The combo evolves through the 60's and 70's and now the generations who followed THAT music has kids of their own.  In some cases, the kids still listen to newer rock but more often than we'd like to admit, the kid doesn't find Shinedown (or whoever!) appealing because it (being "rock-n-roll" with an arrangement of guitar, bass, drums, and maybe a keyboard) sounds "just like that Led Zeppelin stuff my dad listens to."  The last thing a lot of kids (specifically those more interested in the message than the music) want is for their parents to be able to relate to them or their interests.  So they get into stuff that sounds NOTHING like their parents' music: NWA, 2-Pac, etc.

And it's all made worse that the labels do nothing to nurture the next generation of Rock.  Nowadays most bands can't get more than a three album deal.  Imagine if EMI dropped the Beatles after A Hard Days Night because they'd figured the group had peaked.  And while the sales make that scenario sound ridiculous, my favorite example to site is The Who.  I'm a huge Who fan but will admit that most of their early stuff sounds like bad Kinks music.  In the late 60's Townshen told himself he couldn't compeat with Clapton's playing or Hendrix's spectacle, and made the conscious decision to concentrate on his songwriting, giving the world Tommy, Who's Next, Quadrophenia, etc.  Nowadays, he never would have made it to that point. 

Rock has been dead for some time and here we are.  A bunch of old guys listening to "Sinatra", telling ourselves that "Elvis" is just a passing fad