I think big news is coming...

[Ron]

My lord. The level of disconnect here from any sort of reality, let alone generally accepted levels of aesthetic appreciation, boggles the  mind. Let's just run through these things.

1.) Drop the "chicks" schtick. It's really f*cking stupid. It is demeaning to women, and it makes you look like crass assholes.

2.) The Beach Boys are actually known by many -- if not most -- 20 and 30-somethings as the band that recorded Pet Sounds. The album is legendary. And that is as it should be.

3.) The fun and sun stuff is stupid. It was cool for a couple of years in the 60s, but it certainly isn't now. The group continues to be popular in spite of that stuff, not because of it.

4.) To even consider that SIP and TLOS are on the same level requires a suspension of disbelief so vast I'm surprised said poster is able to function in the physical world.

5.) Not everyone who likes this band is a white, straight male in his 50s and 60s who plans to vote for Mitt Romney. Failure to appreciate this reflects poorly on you, not on the people with other viewpoints.

6.) I can't believe someone in a forum like this actually has to argue that Pet Sounds is the band's best work.

7.) Yes, there are people who believed this reunion was a bad idea. This thread proves why.

You are the one disconnected here. I'll agree that Pet Sounds is great and sophisticated, but it is not what people go hear when they see The Beach Boys. Get over it. You want them perceived the way you want and not how they actually are. Come to think of it, they may have gotten
it right and we are wrong. At least they didn't deceive themselves in thinking that their best music was necessarily their most popular music. Even Brian realized his Smile music would not appeal to the main demographic that listened to their music and pulled the plug on it. There is a reason that for 50 years people still go there shows; for the joy that Brian's ealy and mid-60s music gives to them.

You really think that is the reason why people went to see BWPS or even the "Pet Sounds" tour?  

*Dear god please don't let this conversation turn into a serious music fans go to see Brian Wilson and Joe Public goes to see Mike & Bruce*

You still don't get it: Serious Music Fans ARE Joe Blow. 

[Shady]

Ron, put down the joint and shut down the computer

You've had a little too much tonight

[JohnMill]

My lord. The level of disconnect here from any sort of reality, let alone generally accepted levels of aesthetic appreciation, boggles the  mind. Let's just run through these things.

1.) Drop the "chicks" schtick. It's really f*cking stupid. It is demeaning to women, and it makes you look like crass assholes.

2.) The Beach Boys are actually known by many -- if not most -- 20 and 30-somethings as the band that recorded Pet Sounds. The album is legendary. And that is as it should be.

3.) The fun and sun stuff is stupid. It was cool for a couple of years in the 60s, but it certainly isn't now. The group continues to be popular in spite of that stuff, not because of it.

4.) To even consider that SIP and TLOS are on the same level requires a suspension of disbelief so vast I'm surprised said poster is able to function in the physical world.

5.) Not everyone who likes this band is a white, straight male in his 50s and 60s who plans to vote for Mitt Romney. Failure to appreciate this reflects poorly on you, not on the people with other viewpoints.

6.) I can't believe someone in a forum like this actually has to argue that Pet Sounds is the band's best work.

7.) Yes, there are people who believed this reunion was a bad idea. This thread proves why.

You are the one disconnected here. I'll agree that Pet Sounds is great and sophisticated, but it is not what people go hear when they see The Beach Boys. Get over it. You want them perceived the way you want and not how they actually are. Come to think of it, they may have gotten
it right and we are wrong. At least they didn't deceive themselves in thinking that their best music was necessarily their most popular music. Even Brian realized his Smile music would not appeal to the main demographic that listened to their music and pulled the plug on it. There is a reason that for 50 years people still go there shows; for the joy that Brian's ealy and mid-60s music gives to them.

You really think that is the reason why people went to see BWPS or even the "Pet Sounds" tour?  

*Dear god please don't let this conversation turn into a serious music fans go to see Brian Wilson and Joe Public goes to see Mike & Bruce*

You still don't get it: Serious Music Fans ARE Joe Blow.  

Most people in my opinion anyhow don't think of music as being anything else except something to listen to in the car on the way to work.  

[hypehat]

This thread. Ye Gods.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I hear you, but do you really think the U.S. record buying public is going buy into that change of direction?

I think the possibilities of them buying into it are about as good as them buying into an album that rehearses themes and styles from a particular glory period. That is to say it's utterly unpredictable to guess what the public might buy. I certainly don't think there's anything to suggest, though, that an album that tries to do the same thing that, say, Today! did, both sonically and thematically would sell. The Beach Boys made two comebacks - one was riding on the tail of Endless Summer, in which they made an album, 15 Big Ones, which was their highest grossing album in the States since Beach Boys' Party. Their other comeback was Kokomo which came at a very crucial time - it was right at the time of about five years or so in the mid to late 80s when the baby boomers were nostalgic for the 60s (i.e. their own youth which they were just beginning to realize was gone) - thus, the era saw massive hits by people who hadn't had massive hits like that in years - (George Harrison's "Got My Mind Set On You" [#1 - 1987], Neil Young's "Rockin' in the Free World" (#2 - 1989), Roy Orbison's "You Got It" (#9 - 1989), etc.). On top of that, it was also a huge time for that kind of song due to the rise in popularity of "island"-theme music ("Hands Up", "Montego Bay", "Hot Hot Hot", "Conga"). Kokomo kind of occupied the space where these two colliding sensations met. And, then, to solidify things it was part of a soundtrack to a box office smash which itself cashed in on what was then a popular trend of island-themed music. The soundtrack produced a few big hits (Don't Worry, Be Happy - anyone???).

Not to take anything away from the hits of 15 Big Ones and Kokomo but they were, in some sense, flukes, both coming at the exact right time. Other times the Beach Boys tried to revisit their old style from the 60s, they didn't have the same luck. Albums like MIU and Keepin' the Summer Alive, both of which had a number of songs that pushed the old image, did worse than albums like Surf's Up, So Tough, and Holland. Then, of course, there's Still Cruisin' which re-plays the themes of some of The Beach Boys biggest 60s hits and was, at that point, their biggest commercial failure.

 We know U.S. audience only wants the same ole, same ole.

Thing about that though is that when an audience wants "the same ole, same ole" (and this is, by NO means the whole American audience, and certainly not the long run audience - you know the one that has made Pet Sounds one of the biggest selling, if not biggest selling, non-best of Beach Boys album) they actually want "the same ole" not something attempting to sound like the same ole. Which is why The New Monkees were the failure they were, at the height of The Monkees revival.

[Lowbacca]

[rab2591]

[JohnMill]

Their other comeback was Kokomo which came at a very crucial time - it was right at the time of about five years or so in the mid to late 80s when the baby boomers were nostalgic for the 60s (i.e. their own youth which they were just beginning to realize was gone) - thus, the era saw massive hits by people who hadn't had massive hits like that in years - (George Harrison's "Got My Mind Set On You" [#1 - 1987], Neil Young's "Rockin' in the Free World" (#2 - 1989), Roy Orbison's "You Got It" (#9 - 1989), etc.).

Are you saying this is the only reason those albums were successful as I think "Cloud Nine" for example is held by Beatles fans as being one of George's better solo records.  Actually that whole "Wilbury Records" stuff was all pretty solid nostalgia aside.  Jeff Lynne might not be everyone's cup of tea but I think the work he did during this period was pretty solid.

[Mr. Wilson]

Cabin essence IS BETTER and more ARTISTIC than Kokomo.. Kokomo  is more commercial tho.. That doesnt make it better.! In the end BB will be known BOTH as a pop rock band AND a artistic force..History already shows that.. And this mean spirited BS is WAY out of hand.. The SAME GUYS talkin BS every day.! My GOD GET A GRIP.! Its only R+R.. You guys ruin this board for the rest of us.. Take a XANAX..PLEASE. If i ran this board you guys would be 86"d.A debate is fine but a thread starts and one is the thread and the others argue on in same thread..This is depressing.. From what i can tell its mostly newbies.. Too much time on your hands.. Agree to disagree.. Some of you guys are like pit bulls..And what you DONT know is that your running the insiders AWAY.. As the arguing increases they POST LESS..!

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Point is this: When I said they should write love songs about getting your heart broke, or how f*cking AWESOME your woman is, I think I've got the evidence to back it up.  I'm not really being beligerant here, hell I can't even spell beligerant.

Someone like you should learn.

I'm just saying the best sh*t they EVER recorded wasn't intellectual nonsense like featured on SMiLE and a lot of the 70's albums, it was the great, great, fantastic music they were making in the mid 60's.

That's subjective.

I love smile just as much as the other guy,

Does the "other guy" refer to it as intellectual nonsense too? If so, I might question whether he really "loves" it.

but we only need so much of that stuff.

Which is why, if you look back at my posts, I've not only said that they shouldn't make an album that tries to sound like Today/Summer Days but that they also shouldn't make an album that sounds like Pet Sounds or Smile.

I'll never get tired of Surfer Girl or "Salt Lake City" or "Good to my Baby".  

Me neither, but that doesn't mean that putting out an album that tried to capture the essence of those songs is going to be anything approaching good. I notice that you didn't put "It's OK" or "Kona Coast" in with those three...

[drbeachboy]

My lord. The level of disconnect here from any sort of reality, let alone generally accepted levels of aesthetic appreciation, boggles the  mind. Let's just run through these things.

1.) Drop the "chicks" schtick. It's really f*cking stupid. It is demeaning to women, and it makes you look like crass assholes.

2.) The Beach Boys are actually known by many -- if not most -- 20 and 30-somethings as the band that recorded Pet Sounds. The album is legendary. And that is as it should be.

3.) The fun and sun stuff is stupid. It was cool for a couple of years in the 60s, but it certainly isn't now. The group continues to be popular in spite of that stuff, not because of it.

4.) To even consider that SIP and TLOS are on the same level requires a suspension of disbelief so vast I'm surprised said poster is able to function in the physical world.

5.) Not everyone who likes this band is a white, straight male in his 50s and 60s who plans to vote for Mitt Romney. Failure to appreciate this reflects poorly on you, not on the people with other viewpoints.

6.) I can't believe someone in a forum like this actually has to argue that Pet Sounds is the band's best work.

7.) Yes, there are people who believed this reunion was a bad idea. This thread proves why.

You are the one disconnected here. I'll agree that Pet Sounds is great and sophisticated, but it is not what people go hear when they see The Beach Boys. Get over it. You want them perceived the way you want and not how they actually are. Come to think of it, they may have gotten
it right and we are wrong. At least they didn't deceive themselves in thinking that their best music was necessarily their most popular music. Even Brian realized his Smile music would not appeal to the main demographic that listened to their music and pulled the plug on it. There is a reason that for 50 years people still go there shows; for the joy that Brian's ealy and mid-60s music gives to them.

You really think that is the reason why people went to see BWPS or even the "Pet Sounds" tour?  

*Dear god please don't let this conversation turn into a serious music fans go to see Brian Wilson and Joe Public goes to see Mike & Bruce*

OK, won't go there, though you answered your own question. I never said every Beach Boys fan is like Joe Public, but I guarantee you that you will not hear more than 4 songs from Pet Sounds and 3 songs from Smile. Which gets us back to your * comment. It is really amazing how you short sell Brian and The Beach Boys most endearing music.

[SBonilla]

I'm hoping they do something with a more mellow and laid back feel like the album Friends.

Brian alluded to a "mellow tone" for the album at the Grammy interview.

He's like that sometimes. I bet at least one of them was biting his lip.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Are you saying this is the only reason those albums were successful

No, not really. But I don't think they (including Cloud Nine) would have been nearly as successful had they been released, say, in the late 90s.

as I think "Cloud Nine" for example is held by Beatles fans as being one of George's better solo records.

It's got a good reputation but not as good as Brainwashed which didn't do nearly as well (didn't go Platinum in the States like C9) and even that was released in the wake of George's death. I'd say Macca has put out stuff that is better than the stuff he did in the 80s, but he hasn't had a Top 40 hit in the States since My Brave Face in 1989.

[Mr. Wilson]

I stand by that last statement: As the arguing GROWS the INSIDERS post LESS..Show some respect or they will all GO AWAY. if they split there is no reason to come here except for the BS

[JohnMill]

I stand by that last statement: As the arguing GROWS the INSIDERS post LESS..Show some respect or they will all GO AWAY. if they split there is no reason to come here except for the BS

To put it bluntly as much as I respect and appreciate the posts from the insiders I see nothing wrong about debates between fans which is how I view this topic.  As far as insiders potentially going away because they don't like the arguing it actually smacks of something I heard on the radio the other day about the committee who decides who will get into Canton threatening to quit due to the fact they are being criticized because of the fact that Parcells didn't get in this year.  I mean that is pretty thin skinned right?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I stand by that last statement: As the arguing GROWS the INSIDERS post LESS..Show some respect or they will all GO AWAY. if they split there is no reason to come here except for the BS

You're right. We need more posts like yours. Those would really impress the insiders:

Let s see Your comparing .......Miles Davis Tony Williams JACO... Freddie Hubbard.. Wayne Shorter,,   Herbie Hanclock// Ron Carter Peter Erskine...  .. Larry Coryell.. John Mc Laughjlion.... AL Dimeola... Stanley Clarke.. Lenny White... Jean Luc Ponty.. Jan Hammer... Brecker Bros.. Alphonse Mouzion..... !!   SWEET JESUS.. Get a grip..!! Are U kidding me..!! BW is a POP ROCK musician....!! He is NOT a jazz musician..!! you NEWBIES scare me.. MY GOD.. Do your RESEARCH...BW is NOT a jazz dude,, PERIOD...BLAH BLAH BLAH.. I  dont want to come here anymore.. You guys are  SCARY..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[drbeachboy]

I stand by that last statement: As the arguing GROWS the INSIDERS post LESS..Show some respect or they will all GO AWAY. if they split there is no reason to come here except for the BS

I see everybody but Mark and Alan in here regularly. They haven't been here since before Smile was announced last February. They are used to this stuff, I'm sure. There is not a thread in this place that doesn't veer off course, but eventually find it's way back. This is what happens when people have a love and a passion for a band and it's music. We argue, but we always let it blow over. As much as it can get crazy in here, I still love it and everyone in here. You guys And gals rock!

[Shady]

Mr Wilson came off worst in this sh*t storm

[JohnMill]

Are you saying this is the only reason those albums were successful

No, not really. But I don't think they (including Cloud Nine) would have been nearly as successful had they been released, say, in the late 90s.

as I think "Cloud Nine" for example is held by Beatles fans as being one of George's better solo records.

It's got a good reputation but not as good as Brainwashed which didn't do nearly as well (didn't go Platinum in the States like C9) and even that was released in the wake of George's death. I'd say Macca has put out stuff that is better than the stuff he did in the 80s, but he hasn't had a Top 40 hit in the States since My Brave Face in 1989.

I think there could be other factors at work though some of which have interested me because they parallel what has happened to networks like Nick At Nite and TV LAND over the past decade.  Until recently I was unaware that the over sixty demographic is considered mostly irrelevant by those who chart television ratings and such.  I learned of this information while trying to ascertain why N@N & TVLAND no longer made it stock and trade in shows from the fifties and sixties and instead now broadcast "Friends" and "Everybody Loves Raymond".  From what I ascertained baby boomers are no longer considered to be a viable audience when it comes to television viewing so few networks (even N@N & TVLAND surprisingly) will cater to them any more.  

I wonder if this somehow ties back into the lack of sales success of solo Beatle records in the nineties in that the baby boomer audience that was still buying records in the late eighties had gradually begun to stop by the end of the next decade.  There is a trend to be found there somewhere I'm sure.

[Zach95]

Mr. Wilson, I friggin love your posts.  Don't stop man, you say it straight and how it is 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I see everybody but Mark and Alan in here regularly. They haven't been here since before Smile was announced last February. They are used to this stuff, I'm sure. There is not a thread in this place that doesn't veer off course, but eventually find it's way back. This is what happens when people have a love and a passion for a band and it's music. We argue, but we always let it blow over. As much as it can get crazy in here, I still love it and everyone in here. You guys And gals rock!

Agree. Think about those hockey players who always go at it on the rink and then have a beer together after the game.

[SMiLE Brian]

The central themes of all Beach Boys music (being young, love, having fun, etc.) make it popular no matter the era of surfing, cars, romance, and Americana. People may dislike on the beach era, but listening to that era on a beach really drives home the quality of BW songs about a beach culture. Likewise Pet Sounds and Smile captured the era of mature love and psychedelia really well. Whatever the new album is about, it should be timeless due to central themes that people relate to, not a rehash of the past.

[drbeachboy]

Are you saying this is the only reason those albums were successful

No, not really. But I don't think they (including Cloud Nine) would have been nearly as successful had they been released, say, in the late 90s.

as I think "Cloud Nine" for example is held by Beatles fans as being one of George's better solo records.

It's got a good reputation but not as good as Brainwashed which didn't do nearly as well (didn't go Platinum in the States like C9) and even that was released in the wake of George's death. I'd say Macca has put out stuff that is better than the stuff he did in the 80s, but he hasn't had a Top 40 hit in the States since My Brave Face in 1989.

I think there could be other factors at work though some of which have interested me because they parallel what has happened to networks like Nick At Nite and TV LAND over the past decade.  Until recently I was unaware that the over sixty demographic is considered mostly irrelevant by those who chart television ratings and such.  I learned of this information while trying to ascertain why N@N & TVLAND no longer made it stock and trade in shows from the fifties and sixties and instead now broadcast "Friends" and "Everybody Loves Raymond".  From what I ascertained baby boomers are no longer considered to be a viable audience when it comes to television viewing so few networks (even N@N & TVLAND surprisingly) will cater to them any more.  

I wonder if this somehow ties back into the lack of sales success of solo Beatle records in the nineties in that the baby boomer audience that was still buying records in the late eighties had gradually begun to stop by the end of the next decade.  There is a trend to be found there somewhere I'm sure.

It is truly amazing, as my baby boomer ass still spends more money than the younger generation TV is catering to. Many can't find jobs to buy the things they are advertising to them.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I wonder if this somehow ties back into the lack of sales success of solo Beatle records in the nineties in that the baby boomer audience that was still buying records in the late eighties had gradually begun to stop by the end of the next decade.  There is a trend to be found there somewhere I'm sure.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my own thoughts about it were pretty much echoed above -- that by, say, 1987, the 60s music fan was heading into his or her 40s. It was the perfect time to start looking back. And it just so happened that several artists from the 60s were themselves beginning to make songs that bared some kind of resemblance to songs from the 60s.

[Mr. Wilson]

Interesting.. i speak up for peace and everyone that's arguing  turns around and attacks me..Isn't human nature grand..I saw that coming also + im not trying to impress insiders . I just like their insight that's all. Sorry about speaking up.. Ive actually have listened to BB for 50 years so im an old fart. Ill be quiet and go back to my oatmeal + wheel chair.