So Sad About BB's Career After "Smile" Incident :'[

[hypehat]

seriously i don't see the big deal with friends..

The best way for me to describe 'Friends' would be: if the early Beach Boys albums are like cruising down the boulevard in a cool car on a hot Summer day while you're checking out beautiful young women in bikinis, then 'Friends' is like chilling out in your back yard on a warm Summer evening with the woman you love and a cold beer.

No kidding, that's how Friends clicked with me - Hanging out in my garden with friends and beers, and I put it on and suddenly it all made sense 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and admit something that I've never said to anybody before. With the exception of Pet Sounds, everything that The Beach Boys recorded, starting with Smiley Smile and ending with Holland, is better than anything that they recorded from Surfin' Safari to Party!.

Four words - The Beach Boys Today !

Oh, and you left this out - "IMO".  

Reading this thread (taking forever) and there's a lot I'm gonna need to address, but before I do I wanna say this...I agree 1 MILLION PERCENT Jay, and that is including Today. IMO, of course.

I Get Around, In My Room, The Little Girl I Once Knew.......All gems like dozens more with Brian in control. I'll take any of those tunes over most anything on Wild Honey, Friends or Smiley. I like a lot of songs from the late 60's albums but I don't get the dismissal by some folks of the early stuff much of it being brilliant. You think Carl's lead on Wild Honey is better than his lead on Girl Don't Tell Me?

There is a portion of Beach Boys fans that think the late sixties stuff is great and so be it, but really.........plenty of tunes on those albums are just as bad as County Fair.

For me Brian was the Beach Boys, and his lack of involvement after Smile's collapse is glaringly obvious from that point on.

I actually prefer  Brian's vocals in that time period to his 'classic' stuff, and if I'm being honest I prefer the songs as well. I'm not saying they're *better*, just that I prefer them.

[Jay]

The weird thing is that I grew up on the pre Pet Sounds Beach Boys. I loved Shut Down, 409, Surfin', Surfin' Safari, Little Deuce Coupe, etc. I also loved Kokomo, Still Cruisin, etc. But as I grew older and "matured", I began to look at stuff like 409 and Surfin' Safari as light weight, almost "novelty" songs. But I got the Good Vibrations box set, and heard the Smile tracks, and stuff like The Night Was So Young, and Still I Dream Of It, and it opened up a whole new world.  I now look at their early career and see about 75% of it as basically a band catching on to the trends of the time(surfing, cars, girls, etc). Almost like a group of musicians learning how to be a real band.

I don't really think that every single thing they recordedbefore Pet Sounds isn't as great as their work from Pet Sounds and on into the 70's. I just really wanted to piss off NewGuy.  I love Don't Worry Baby, Warmth Of The Sun, Please Let Me Wonder, etc. Of course, I recognise that songs like Kiss Be Baby and The Little Girl I Once Knew are works of genius, in production and vocal arrangments. I will say that I would much rather listen to Smiley Smile and Wild Honey over Summer Days And Summer Nights, or All Summer Long, for example.

[Newguy562]

The weird thing is that I grew up on the pre Pet Sounds Beach Boys. I loved Shut Down, 409, Surfin', Surfin' Safari, Little Deuce Coupe, etc. I also loved Kokomo, Still Cruisin, etc. But as I grew older and "matured", I began to look at stuff like 409 and Surfin' Safari as light weight, almost "novelty" songs. But I got the Good Vibrations box set, and heard the Smile tracks, and stuff like The Night Was So Young, and Still I Dream Of It, and it opened up a whole new world.  I now look at their early career and see about 75% of it as basically a band catching on to the trends of the time(surfing, cars, girls, etc). Almost like a group of musicians learning how to be a real band.

I don't really think that every single thing they recordedbefore Pet Sounds isn't as great as their work from Pet Sounds and on into the 70's. I just really wanted to piss off NewGuy.  I love Don't Worry Baby, Warmth Of The Sun, Please Let Me Wonder, etc. Of course, I recognise that songs like Kiss Be Baby and The Little Girl I Once Knew are works of genius, in production and vocal arrangments. I will say that I would much rather listen to Smiley Smile and Wild Honey over Summer Days And Summer Nights, or All Summer Long, for example.

I'm glad you mentioned "the night was so young" thats one of my favorites it's so beautiful and melodic.
Catching on the trends? they are one of the creators of Surf Rock ..
I'd rather listen to "Today" over "Friends" but I'd rather listen to "Smiley Smile/ Wild Honey" over everything Pre Pet Sounds except for "Today" my top 5 albums by the bb's would have to be "Pet Sounds,Today,Smile,Wild Honey & Smiley Smile"

[Alan Smith]

Catching on the trends? they are one of the creators of Surf Rock ..

They are an early contributor and influential in the surf music vocal genre but not really the creators of Surf music. Duane Eddy and the Rebels (arguably of course) kicked off in '58 with Ramrod - and there were a number of surf associated hits in the bag before Dennis W mouthed off to H&D Morgan, some 50 or so years ago.

As noted by many before me, it wasn't long until surfin' and car stuff were no longer on Brian's agenda.

[brother john]

SOME OF YOU ARE SO IN DENIAL :[

no, some of us just love Carl and Dennis's music as much as we love Brian's, and don't conflate artistic success with commercial success.  It's not called denial, it's called taste.  My taste = different than your taste.  ain't rocket science.   

this has nothing to do with commercial success...everything sounded so low budget after smile even though i loved it i'm still saddened that he didnt work with the wall of sound and create more mastrpieces

Don't you mean 'everything sounded so low budget after Pet Sounds'? Smile wasn't released, remember? (And still isn't.)

Wild Honey, Friends, even 20/20 are great albums. And so is Smiley Smile (stereo release PLEASE...). If you don't like the more experimenal side of the BBs then fair enough.

Sunflower is DEFINITELY not low-budget either in sound or execution.

Pet Sounds sounds low-budget, but is brilliantly written arranged, and performed.

I agree that most albums after Sunflower lacked the spark and overall quality of the mid-late sixties material, but really I think you're just voicing an opinion on what you like, rather than what are/are not quality productions.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

I don't agree with any of newboy's arguments so far on this thread, especially the ''you're all in denial" comment. Was their carrer disapointing post Pet Sounds/Smile? Take a quick glance at the following list, any of this disapointing:

Long Promised Road
Feel Flows
Til I Die
All This Is That
Celebrate the News
Lady
Slip On Through
This Whole World
All I Wanna Do (and All I Want to Do for that matter...)
Busy Doin'Nothin'
Carry Me Home
Sail On Sailor
Trader
4th of July
Funky Pretty
Mt Vernon & Fairway

I could go on...

[Autotune]

Best troll thread ever

[SMiLE Brian]

Best troll thread ever

Last night's events proved that the BB's are alive and kicking, unlike what this thread tried to prove.

[Newguy562]

Best troll thread ever

Last night's events proved that the BB's are alive and kicking, unlike what this thread tried to prove.

last night performance was amazing i'm happy they are kicking things off this way.

[Micha]

My humble opinions:

There are quite a lot of instrumentally underproduced pre-PS tracks, but the singing arrangements are so great you don't notice it.

SS is a novelty album that I sometimes connect with.

Wild Honey would sound much much better if recorded in a real studio - and with Dennis being given more freedom on the drums. His drum parts are often taken back a bit.
Brian's production decisions aren't that good either in places.
Play Aren't You Glad from WH and after that the 1968 live version, so you see what could have been.

Friends is my least favorite 60s BB album. The arrangements and songwriting on most of the songs sound unfinished to me. That does not include the tracks Friends, When A Man Needs A Woman, Busy Doin' Nothing, and, interestingly, Be Still, which though recorded with only organ and Dennis' voice sounds complete to me.
And the overall sound is still not as good as on pre-SS albums.

From 20/20 on the tracks are well produced again. But from Surf's Up on they fail to appeal to my personal taste and get dull to my mind.

[filledeplage]

My humble opinions:

There are quite a lot of instrumentally underproduced pre-PS tracks, but the singing arrangements are so great you don't notice it.

SS is a novelty album that I sometimes connect with.

Wild Honey would sound much much better if recorded in a real studio - and with Dennis being given more freedom on the drums. His drum parts are often taken back a bit.
Brian's production decisions aren't that good either in places.
Play Aren't You Glad from WH and after that the 1968 live version, so you see what could have been.

Friends is my least favorite 60s BB album. The arrangements and songwriting on most of the songs sound unfinished to me. That does not include the tracks Friends, When A Man Needs A Woman, Busy Doin' Nothing, and, interestingly, Be Still, which though recorded with only organ and Dennis' voice sounds complete to me.
And the overall sound is still not as good as on pre-SS albums.

From 20/20 on the tracks are well produced again. But from Surf's Up on they fail to appeal to my personal taste and get dull to my mind.

The "Today" album, is one that leads off with a "Dennis" lead, and is a real gem.   

The original "Ronda" - pre-"Rhonda!" -  the bulb before the tulip!   

[Micha]

My humble opinions:

There are quite a lot of instrumentally underproduced pre-PS tracks, but the singing arrangements are so great you don't notice it.

SS is a novelty album that I sometimes connect with.

Wild Honey would sound much much better if recorded in a real studio - and with Dennis being given more freedom on the drums. His drum parts are often taken back a bit.
Brian's production decisions aren't that good either in places.
Play Aren't You Glad from WH and after that the 1968 live version, so you see what could have been.

Friends is my least favorite 60s BB album. The arrangements and songwriting on most of the songs sound unfinished to me. That does not include the tracks Friends, When A Man Needs A Woman, Busy Doin' Nothing, and, interestingly, Be Still, which though recorded with only organ and Dennis' voice sounds complete to me.
And the overall sound is still not as good as on pre-SS albums.

From 20/20 on the tracks are well produced again. But from Surf's Up on they fail to appeal to my personal taste and get dull to my mind.

The "Today" album, is one that leads off with a "Dennis" lead, and is a real gem.   

The original "Ronda" - pre-"Rhonda!" -  the bulb before the tulip!   

I have no idea what in my post you are referring to, but "Today!" is my favorite BB album.

[filledeplage]

My humble opinions:

There are quite a lot of instrumentally underproduced pre-PS tracks, but the singing arrangements are so great you don't notice it.

SS is a novelty album that I sometimes connect with.

Wild Honey would sound much much better if recorded in a real studio - and with Dennis being given more freedom on the drums. His drum parts are often taken back a bit.
Brian's production decisions aren't that good either in places.
Play Aren't You Glad from WH and after that the 1968 live version, so you see what could have been.

Friends is my least favorite 60s BB album. The arrangements and songwriting on most of the songs sound unfinished to me. That does not include the tracks Friends, When A Man Needs A Woman, Busy Doin' Nothing, and, interestingly, Be Still, which though recorded with only organ and Dennis' voice sounds complete to me.
And the overall sound is still not as good as on pre-SS albums.

From 20/20 on the tracks are well produced again. But from Surf's Up on they fail to appeal to my personal taste and get dull to my mind.

The "Today" album, is one that leads off with a "Dennis" lead, and is a real gem.   

The original "Ronda" - pre-"Rhonda!" -  the bulb before the tulip!   

I have no idea what in my post you are referring to, but "Today!" is my favorite BB album.

Your comment about "overall sound..."

Today is a very fine album.  I did always wonder about the cover.  It was released in March of 1965, according to wiki, but the cover has a "fall" feel to it with autumn tones and the pullover sweaters. I wondered if it had been planned for an earlier release and was delayed. Album covers had more significance, back then, when people carried their music under their arms, rather than mp3 format, where there is more of an abstract and neutral packing.  Even the CD cases had really tiny print, which made it a job to read the liner notes.  Just different, I guess.  Boomers have a thing for their old LP's!  A great album cover enhances great music.   That is probably worthy of a separate thread!

But, I feel there is great stuff at every juncture.   

[Cabinessenceking]

...everything sounded so low budget after smile even though i loved it i'm still saddened that he didnt work with the wall of sound and create more mastrpieces

You've not heard an album called Sunflower, I take it. 

That album was decent actually besides wild honey it's my favorite post smile album . ..None of us fans can honestly say that the post smile material is what made us beach boy fans lol..we all know it's the pre-pet sounds and pet sounds and smile songs that really made us want 2 tap into the beach boys music. and really made us fanatics.

The song that got me hooked was the first BB song I ever heard: Surf's Up

[bluesno1fann]

It was Pet Sounds and Smile that introduced me to the Beach Boys. But it was their work after Smile that made me into a hardcore fan.

Newguy562 is 100% wrong, it all depends on the fan's personal tastes. Some prefer the pre-Pet Sounds material, Some prefer the post-Smile material.

And as for him saying the only good songs off Surf's Up is the title track and 'Til I Die, he could not be more wrong. He's obviously not a fan of Carl's music, or Dennis's for that matter. Typical Brianista, doesn't help that he doesn't accept other people's opinions. Guess that's why he's banned. Oh well...

But I do agree with Newguy562 on one point: I never really understood all the love for Friends around here. It's a decent album, but is fairly overrated here. Though I love the title track, Little Bird and Be Still.

[Blue2013]

The answer to OPs question is simple, no one can top Pet Sounds.

[bluesno1fann]

The answer to OPs question is simple, no one can top Pet Sounds.

Here's a few that are equal to or come close to Pet Sounds:
The Smile Sessions
Sunflower
Modified Surf's Up that includes Denny's outtakes and excludes Take A Load Off Your Feet (and possibly SDT)
Pacific Ocean Blue

[KittyKat]

 Why respond to a two year old post? And one started by a trollish guy who was banned at one point?

[bluesno1fann]

Why respond to a two year old post? And one started by a trollish guy who was banned at one point?

I was stating my opinion on the whole thing, and how I disagreed. Yes, Newguy562 was permanently banned a long time ago, but it wasn't because he was a troll (He was like OSD, he'd post really stupid sh*t sometimes, and really interesting comments at other times), I think it was mainly for the creepy comments he made here:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14988.msg343199.html#msg343199

[OneEar/OneEye]

the Brian led band and the post Smile band are really two different bands though, in a way.  Just as Pink Floyd with Syd and Pink Floyd after his departure are two different animals (pun intended, if you like) -  the same guys were in the band, essentially, but the whole things dynamic and creative force had changed. 
So, while I would agree it's a shame that Brian, who was doing an amazingly cool thing with the whole Smile trip, was thwarted in his muses ascension and growth, it would be a shame to me equally not to have the often great music that came afterward.    Smiley Smile is an amazing thing - I only wish there were more on it, but it's brevity is also part of it's charm.  Wild Honey, Friends.....I would miss them.

[KittyKat]

If one looks at rock history of the period, there is no reason that Brian would have wanted to make more music in the Smile or Pet Sounds mold. Did the Beatles keep making Revolver and Sgt. Pepper? No. Rock was going in a more stripped down and basic direction ala Credence Clearwater Revival. I' m sure Brian was listening to that trend when  making the later albums. Perhaps others on this vintage thread made the same point, but I didn't read all pages.

[bluesno1fann]

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and admit something that I've never said to anybody before. With the exception of Pet Sounds, everything that The Beach Boys recorded, starting with Smiley Smile and ending with Holland, is better than anything that they recorded from Surfin' Safari to Party!.

I agree with you 100%. You could not be more correct!

Though I usually include Pet Sounds/Smile to that era.

I'd say it's those albums that the BB's should be remembered for, not the pre-Pet Sounds material!

[bachelorofbullets]

Immature minds try to improve their understanding by quantifying (this is better, that is worse, or this group had more hit songs therefore they are better).

What makes one piece of music better than another...record sales?  In that case Kesha is a genius.

Beach Boys used the most complex harmonies in popular music, does that make their music better?  Maybe, maybe not.  It's all pretty subjective.  However I think California Saga, Big Sur, Lady Linda are pretty damn good.   




 

[RubberSoul13]

I think your argument that Pink Floyd (not a big fan personally) just "got better and better" is silly- there was clearly a decline for them some time in the 80s. Plus I don't think you would find too many Zeppelin fans that consider In through the Out Door to be their finest moment. As for the Beatles, to many fans  their peak was the Rubber Soul/Revolver era, so again, I don't think you can just unequivocally state that the Beatles just "got better and better". This does bring to mind an interesting question though- Are there any groups that anyone can think of who just got better and better?

The Beatles definitely just got better, but that's my opinion. They continued to grow and evolve (like the beach boys) but it stayed commercially successful (unlike the beach boys) arguably because the sound was better (my thoughts) or because they were THE BEATLES.

I think The Doors got better and better in the studio, despite the original poster's comment. LA Woman is an epic album with a lot of hits on it.

Jimi Hendrix is another good example of getting better and better. Cream is another good example of getting better. But if you see a pattern here....these bands/artists didn't really have time to "screw up" like The Beach Boys eventually did. Death plagued them, and I'll probably catch crap for saying it but, if Brian Wilson had died in 1967 and the band had stopped The Beach Boys would probably be universally accepted as being up there with The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and The Rolling Stones. Because whether us fans like it or not, the public does not place them there....or anywhere near there for that matter.