Smile discredits Brian's genius

[XXXCD]

I don't think the half-finished versions of "Smile" that have been circulating over the years are a fitting testament to Brian's genius.

Only ONE track was ever completed for the album and that was Good Vibrations.  You could never tell what it would have sounded like from all the fragments of music and vocals that were recorded  (which is what most people try and do with the other Smile tracks).

The tracks reconstructed by the Beach Boys in later years were not Smile-era edits. From what I have read, Brian's days as a serious producer were pretty much over by the end of 1967. What would these tracks have sounded like if they were finished by Brian during the smile recordings? No one knows. But it's safe to say that they would have been different than the released versions.

Three of the tracks printed on the album sleeve (the Old Master Painter,  I'm in Great Shape and the Elements) are so incomplete they don't even feature on the Smiley Smile Message Board's 2011 box-set discussion. As for "Holidays" and "Look" etc... it's debateable if they were even intended for the album.  

I reckon up to 50% of Smile vocals are instrumentation were never recorded, let alone assembled into album tracks. I would imagine Brian was aiming for 10 very tightly produced tracks with complex vocal arrangements, and (possibly) ways of flowing the tracks together. But it definately WAS NOT going to be the disjointed bits of music that are passed off as "smile" these days.

[Outtasight!]

Eh no.

[stack-o-tracks]

wat
SMiLE was never completed? U sure bro?

[XXXCD]

wat
SMiLE was never completed? U sure bro?

My point is that the half-baked versions of the album that being sold are not a fitting tribute to Brian. People listen to these versions of the album and think they have a good idea of  what it would have sounded like. In my opinion, the music we debate on this forum is NOT EVEN CLOSE to sounding like a finished Smile recording. It discredits Brian.

[bossaroo]

stage of completion has nothing to do with level of genius.

Brian exhibited all kinds of genius during SMiLE, from songwriting to producing to vocal arranging... all quite evident on the box set.

[Jason]

Wow, another come-lately who thinks he knows Brian's work more than Brian.

[cablegeddon]

I see what you mean. On the other hand the "partial completion" of SMiLE in 2004 was triumph for his legacy. Up to that point BW's legacy was very much just as the songwriter behind Pet sounds.

[Aegir]

Three of the tracks printed on the album sleeve (the Old Master Painter,  I'm in Great Shape and the Elements) are so incomplete they don't even feature on the Smiley Smile Message Board's 2011 box-set discussion.

You're stupid. Old Master Painter and I'm In Great Shape are in the "All things 'Barnyard Suite'" thread. And the Elements is Mrs. O'Leary's Cow, Wind Chimes, et cetera.

[hypehat]

My point is that the half-baked versions of the album that being sold are not a fitting tribute to Brian. People listen to these versions of the album and think they have a good idea of  what it would have sounded like. In my opinion, the music we debate on this forum is NOT EVEN CLOSE to sounding like a finished Smile recording. It discredits Brian.

With all courtesy, you're nuts.

[Jason]

My point is that the half-baked versions of the album that being sold are not a fitting tribute to Brian. People listen to these versions of the album and think they have a good idea of  what it would have sounded like. In my opinion, the music we debate on this forum is NOT EVEN CLOSE to sounding like a finished Smile recording. It discredits Brian.

You're the same type of person I referred to months ago as undeserving of this beautiful music. It's a shame Smile is being wasted on the likes of you and so many others.

[runnersdialzero]

My point is that the half-baked versions of the album that being sold are not a fitting tribute to Brian. People listen to these versions of the album and think they have a good idea of  what it would have sounded like. In my opinion, the music we debate on this forum is NOT EVEN CLOSE to sounding like a finished Smile recording. It discredits Brian.

What's the alternative?

[anazgnos]

People get so hung up on the idea of the idea of unrealized intent that they forget that Smile, in whatever form one prefers to digest it, is just music, it's a body of actual musical sound that can be played and listened to and enjoyed just like any other piece of music, and that's been true since long before 2011, or even 2004.  If you think that music is testament to Brian's genius that's cool, if you feel otherwise feel free to make your case, but making a meta-argument based not on a reaction to the music that exists, but the music you feel is absent, seems a little silly.

Brian over the course of his life has produced lots of finished music and maybe even more unfinished music, and all of it reflects on Brian and his talents in various ways, but it would be absurd to imagine that the many people who have fallen in love with the Smile corpus over the past 25 or 45 years are reacting to something imaginary.  It's real music.

[Wirestone]

I don't think the half-finished versions of "Smile" that have been circulating over the years are a fitting testament to Brian's genius.

Fine. Your opinion.

Only ONE track was ever completed for the album and that was Good Vibrations.

Verifiably untrue. Heroes and Villains came out as a single. There are edits in the vaults marked final for several other tracks.

The tracks reconstructed by the Beach Boys in later years were not Smile-era edits.

Also untrue. Cabinessence certainly is. Our Prayer has some extra overdubs, but is otherwise precisely what BW recorded for the Smile.

From what I have read, Brian's days as a serious producer were pretty much over by the end of 1967.

This is insanity. Have you ever heard Friends? Sunflower? What about Love You? How about the TLOS demos?

What would these tracks have sounded like if they were finished by Brian during the smile recordings? No one knows. But it's safe to say that they would have been different than the released versions.

Why is it safe to say that? Who is doing the saying?

I would imagine Brian was aiming for 10 very tightly produced tracks with complex vocal arrangements, and (possibly) ways of flowing the tracks together. But it definately WAS NOT going to be the disjointed bits of music that are passed off as "smile" these days.

You sound so certain! That must feel nice.

[runnersdialzero]

Only ONE track was ever completed for the album and that was Good Vibrations.

Verifiably untrue. Heroes and Villains came out as a single. There are edits in the vaults marked final for several other tracks.

While what he said wasn't technically true, it still feels like "Good Vibrations" was the sole track finished under the mindset Brian had for Smile. Yeah, he technically finished, say, "Heroes And Villains" before the proper collapse of the project, but under the mindset of, "Need to finish a single. Need to finish a single. Capitol will not get the fuck off my back. This shit isn't working out at all. Need to finish a single."

As for the other tracks marked as "final" (aren't there only two?), wasn't the cantina version of "Heroes And Villains" also marked as final? I might be wrong there.

[Wirestone]

While what he said wasn't technically true, it still feels like "Good Vibrations" was the sole track finished under the mindset Brian had for Smile. Yeah, he technically finished, say, "Heroes And Villains" before the proper collapse of the project, but under the mindset of, "Need to finish a single. Need to finish a single. Capitol will not get the f*** off my back. This sh*t isn't working out at all. Need to finish a single."

I understand the definitions get murky. Although I would argue that Good Vibes predates Smile -- it's a single, in the true sense of the word. Smile music evolved into something a little bit ... different ... as the months passed. It got a little darker, and the sections became more scattered.

As for finished tracks -- I thought it was Wind Chimes and Wonderful were marked as finished. Cantina at one time, perhaps. I can't imagine BW had much more planned for Prayer, either.

[Tristero]

As for finished tracks -- I thought it was Wind Chimes and Wonderful were marked as finished. Cantina at one time, perhaps. I can't imagine BW had much more planned for Prayer, either.

And though the vocals weren't completed until 1968, I would say that Cabinessence stands as fully realized Smile track, true to its original conception.  And a pretty phenomenal one at that.

With all due respect, the premise of this thread does not compute.  Fragmentary and frustrating though it may be, I can't think of a great testament to Brian Wilson's genius than the Smile sessions.

[Ron]

I don't think Smile discredits Brian's genius, but I do think that it's not what BEST illustrates his genius.  I see much more genius in his work that was not only creative and different, but also commercial.  If I was going to illustrate his genius to somebody, I'd play them something like "Don't Worry Baby"; songs everybody's familiar with and loves, but have deeper messages/stories/inspiration etc. 

Good Vibrations though of course would also fit that bill. 

[pixletwin]

Boy oh boy did the OP come to the wrong board. 

[Wirestone]

I don't think Smile discredits Brian's genius, but I do think that it's not what BEST illustrates his genius.  I see much more genius in his work that was not only creative and different, but also commercial.  If I was going to illustrate his genius to somebody, I'd play them something like "Don't Worry Baby"; songs everybody's familiar with and loves, but have deeper messages/stories/inspiration etc.

Good Vibrations though of course would also fit that bill. 

I love this post. It does really illustrate one of the paradoxes of Smile and BW. For as awesome as Brian's avant garde experiments were, some of his greatest genius really is shown in tracks that were a lot more commercial. Don't Worry Baby is certainly one. California Girls is another. So are I Get Around and the single Rhonda. Even a latter-day track like Your Imagination shows he still had some singles chops.

Good Vibrations was the grand experiment to merge it all into a single. And it worked. But Smile didn't seem like it was going to. And for Brian, who always had managed to merge art (or at least stunning craft) with keen instincts on what the market wanted, this must have been a difficult thing to accept.

[JohnMill]

Boy oh boy did the OP come to the wrong board. 

Kind of reminded me of a misguided John Lennon fan* who went all out crazy on me a few days after BWPS was released on cd in 2004.  He was saying stuff like "I don't understand what the big deal about this record is.  In a few months nobody is going to care about it and The Beatles are going to be number one again!" 

Got to admire his guts though.

* Misguided because I don't think he realized that I'm about as big of a Beatlemaniac as one can be so he was actually trying to sell me on The Beatles and John Lennon.  Whatever

[Awesoman]

My point is that the half-baked versions of the album that being sold are not a fitting tribute to Brian. People listen to these versions of the album and think they have a good idea of  what it would have sounded like. In my opinion, the music we debate on this forum is NOT EVEN CLOSE to sounding like a finished Smile recording. It discredits Brian.

You're the same type of person I referred to months ago as undeserving of this beautiful music. It's a shame Smile is being wasted on the likes of you and so many others.

Don't completely agree with lunarjetguy, but we are definitely going overboard here by accusing him of being "undeserving" of the album simply because his opinion differs from yours.  Let's get over ourselves, please.  I'm enjoying SMiLE, and there are certainly some genius moments to be had.  But this album is unfinished; thus making it equally as frustrating a listening experience as it is a beautiful one.  In fact, I've actually been listening to the 2004 BW version of this album a lot more since the Beach Boys' release came out.  At least that version of the album was a complete thought!   

[Aegir]

I find it very hard to listen to BWPS after getting the boxset. BWPS sounds so... artificial.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I don't think the half-finished versions of "Smile" that have been circulating over the years are a fitting testament to Brian's genius.

Only ONE track was ever completed for the album and that was Good Vibrations...  

Well, we can flag the play right there. As any fule kno, "GV" wasn't 'completed for the album', but was a stand-alone single. However, this -

I reckon up to 50% of Smile vocals are instrumentation were never recorded...

- may very well be the dumbest thing anyone's said here for a long time.

[Newguy562]

I find it very hard to listen to BWPS after getting the boxset. BWPS sounds so... artificial.

At first i was Considering never to listen to BWPS again but what i like about BWPS is there are lyrics/singing on "On a Holiday(Holiday)","Song for Children(Look)","Child is the Father of the Man","In Bue Hawaii(Love to Say Dada)"
The smile sessions is missing the lyrics/ singing on all the songs i just mentioned :/

[Chris Brown]

I find it very hard to listen to BWPS after getting the boxset. BWPS sounds so... artificial.

At first i was Considering never to listen to BWPS again but what i like about BWPS is there are lyrics/singing on "On a Holiday(Holiday)","Song for Children(Look)","Child is the Father of the Man","In Blue Hawaii(Love to Say Dada)"
The smile sessions is missing the lyrics/ singing on all the songs i just mentioned :/

Those are pretty much the only BWPS tracks I listen to (albeit rarely), solely for the "completeness" factor.