The Smile Sessions Book - Errors, Omissions, New Info, Weird Facts

[Bicyclerider]

Finally read through the SS book - beautifully laid out and printed.  And C-man's sessionography is a major leap forward in understanding the progression of the sessions and detailing what was recorded and by whom.  But I did notice some errors.

In Diane's essay she mentions listening to Brian sing Surf's Up at Western with Chuck Britz in attendance - it was at Columbia and Chuck wasn't there.

Dom's timeline - 1. he says Van Dyke left in March and returns in April - of course, he never returned after leaving in March.  Dom mentions this in his book as well - the problem is Van Dyke remembers recording Vegetables, but it was the Vegetables demo in Oct 66 he remembers.  He was not present on the April sessions.

2. He mentions a Smile ad in Teen Set in December - it was actually March 1967, wasn't it?  I have the issue somewhere.

Dom's essay:  he says Van Dyke and Dave Crosby went to Brian's house in mid 1965 to hear the Sloop track - I thought this was actually in December when Brian was preparing to do the vocals.  I guess to resolve this I'll have to try and find the Byrds touring schedule to see when Dave was in L.A.

New info:  Shocking that Water chant is NOT a Smile era track, but a Wild Honey track, obviously recorded to go with the contemporaneous Cool Cool Water.  I guess the fact it was on UM Vol 19 The Alternate Wild Honey album should have been a tip off!

The two With Me Tonight's (the TSS 1:30 version and the booted 3:00 version) appear to be Smiley sessions, not Smile sessions.  So only the April WMT on Hawthorne was recorded during Smile.

Sessionography questions:
I always had Dec 13, not Dec 15 for You're Welcome - I guess I need to see what the 2fer liner notes say.  Could it be a typo?

[JohnMill]

Sorry for the semi-hijack but I've been reading Dom's 2004 book as well and noticed several instances where he makes reference to things that I've either never heard elsewhere or have been told are incorrect.

He mentioned a 11-4-66 demo of "The Elements"?  I have never heard reference to that anywhere else.

He also makes reference to "a finished tape of Surf's Up from early 1967" as well as two final tracking sections for the middle portion of the song.  Now I've been told/read several times over that this stuff just plain never existed to begin with.  

Is this a case of Dom's 2004 book now being out of date or my own misunderstanding of the facts at hand?

[Bicyclerider]

Sorry for the semi-hijack but I've been reading Dom's 2004 book as well and noticed several instances where he makes reference to things that I've either never heard elsewhere or have been told are incorrect.

He mentioned a 11-4-66 demo of "The Elements"?  I have never heard reference to that anywhere else.

He also makes reference to "a finished tape of Surf's Up from early 1967" as well as two final tracking sections for the middle portion of the song.  Now I've been told/read several times over that this stuff just plain never existed to begin with.  

Is this a case of Dom's 2004 book now being out of date or my own misunderstanding of the facts at hand?

It's a case of Dom misinterpreting things.  The rumored "finished tape of SU" has never surfaced and is an urban legend at this point.  There were two more tracking sessions - look in TSS book - one for Surf's Up in January and one immediately following for something called "Part One" with a huge string section - apparently notated as a "sweetening session" which means ovedubbing strings onto a track.  We don't know what was recorded at the SU January session but of course a "Part Two" would make sense.  Unfortunately Brian's recording methods were usually not that straightforward.  It would make sense if the "Part One" string overdub was for Part One of SU - although it could have been a string overdub for another multipart song like Heroes or several others.  But it's more logical to me that it was an overdub for what they had just recorded - but if that was "Part Two" of SU, why was the overdub "Part One?"  Maybe the January session for SU was a remake of the Part One track - that's certainly Brian's modus operandi during the Smile sessions, and then that was overdubbed.

The demo of the Elements Dom is referring to is Psychodelic sounds where the Vosse posse and Brian do chants of vegetables and fish/water chants.  Not really a demo at all, but some Elements themes are explored in the chants.

[hypehat]

I always saw the Vosse Psycodelic Sounds things as preparation for other things - dude falls into microphone/piano, and seeing what's fun he gets session guys to do it with horns. Water sounds turn into him doing it with the boys. He obviously didn't think much of the vegetable chants (or pursued a different angle, like the arguments) as it was never taken up beyond 'Sleep A Lot'......

Booze may mean I'm wrong, though.

Also, to be a dick, there are two typos on the tracklisting at the back 

[metal flake paint]

2. He mentions a Smile ad in Teen Set in December - it was actually March 1967, wasn't it?  I have the issue somewhere.

Correct, full page, back cover advertisement, in colour.

[Andrew G. Doe]

There are at least two known Smile ads. The LLVS !! one and the "coming soon - with the Good Vibrations sound" one.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Sessionography questions:
I always had Dec 13, not Dec 15 for You're Welcome - I guess I need to see what the 2fer liner notes say.  Could it be a typo?

No. Booklet p. 24, lower left picture. 

[metal flake paint]

There are at least two known Smile ads. The LLVS !! one and the "coming soon - with the Good Vibrations sound" one.

The 2 page "...Good Vibrations Sound!" ad hails from Billboard, December 24, 1966.

[Wrightfan]

There are at least two known Smile ads. The LLVS !! one and the "coming soon - with the Good Vibrations sound" one.

The 2 page "...Good Vibrations Sound!" ad hails from Billboard, December 24, 1966.

Just checked out that copy on Google and no ad. Is it a different date perhaps?

[guitarfool2002]

There are at least two known Smile ads. The LLVS !! one and the "coming soon - with the Good Vibrations sound" one.

The 2 page "...Good Vibrations Sound!" ad hails from Billboard, December 24, 1966.

Just checked out that copy on Google and no ad. Is it a different date perhaps?

The ad isn't in any of the December '66 Billboard issues, or February '67. It's an irony of all ironies, but one of the very few back issues of Billboard missing from the Google collection of that era appears to be the one with the Smile ad. I checked each and every one in the run, and there are some missing from January '67. One of those probably has the Smile ad.

[guitarfool2002]

2. He mentions a Smile ad in Teen Set in December - it was actually March 1967, wasn't it?  I have the issue somewhere.

The March 1967 date was correct as it appeared on the magazine, but Teen Set and others post-dated by three months. So that issue dated March '67, I believe, would have been current to December '66/January '67. At least I think that was the case.

[Cam Mott]

As I remember Vosse's article was in that issue and it describes events up to Christmas 1966 or so.

[metal flake paint]

Just checked out that copy on Google and no ad. Is it a different date perhaps?

The ad isn't in any of the December '66 Billboard issues, or February '67. It's an irony of all ironies, but one of the very few back issues of Billboard missing from the Google collection of that era appears to be the one with the Smile ad. I checked each and every one in the run, and there are some missing from January '67. One of those probably has the Smile ad.

Apologies, my previous post lacked some details. The ad is in fact in Billboard, Section Two, 1967 International Record Talent Directory, Who's Who In The World Of Music, dated December 24, 1966. A copy of the ad can be found in LLVS pp13-14.

[guitarfool2002]

Just checked out that copy on Google and no ad. Is it a different date perhaps?

The ad isn't in any of the December '66 Billboard issues, or February '67. It's an irony of all ironies, but one of the very few back issues of Billboard missing from the Google collection of that era appears to be the one with the Smile ad. I checked each and every one in the run, and there are some missing from January '67. One of those probably has the Smile ad.

Apologies, my previous post lacked some details. The ad is in fact in Billboard, Section Two, 1967 International Record Talent Directory, Who's Who In The World Of Music, dated December 24, 1966. A copy of the ad can be found in LLVS pp13-14.

That is great info, thank you! Those directories were sold separately and weren't part of the regular weekly run of Billboard, they had to be ordered. I know the exact one you're describing now, thank you again for the information.

[metal flake paint]

Just checked out that copy on Google and no ad. Is it a different date perhaps?

The ad isn't in any of the December '66 Billboard issues, or February '67. It's an irony of all ironies, but one of the very few back issues of Billboard missing from the Google collection of that era appears to be the one with the Smile ad. I checked each and every one in the run, and there are some missing from January '67. One of those probably has the Smile ad.

Apologies, my previous post lacked some details. The ad is in fact in Billboard, Section Two, 1967 International Record Talent Directory, Who's Who In The World Of Music, dated December 24, 1966. A copy of the ad can be found in LLVS pp13-14.

That is great info, thank you! Those directories were sold separately and weren't part of the regular weekly run of Billboard, they had to be ordered. I know the exact one you're describing now, thank you again for the information.

You're welcome. Sorry you had to wade through those back issues.

[guitarfool2002]

Just checked out that copy on Google and no ad. Is it a different date perhaps?

The ad isn't in any of the December '66 Billboard issues, or February '67. It's an irony of all ironies, but one of the very few back issues of Billboard missing from the Google collection of that era appears to be the one with the Smile ad. I checked each and every one in the run, and there are some missing from January '67. One of those probably has the Smile ad.

Apologies, my previous post lacked some details. The ad is in fact in Billboard, Section Two, 1967 International Record Talent Directory, Who's Who In The World Of Music, dated December 24, 1966. A copy of the ad can be found in LLVS pp13-14.

That is great info, thank you! Those directories were sold separately and weren't part of the regular weekly run of Billboard, they had to be ordered. I know the exact one you're describing now, thank you again for the information.

You're welcome. Sorry you had to wade through those back issues.

Haha!  That was me earlier this year searching for any speck of Beach Boys related news, only to find others had done the exploring months before and found the same results! I enjoy going through back issues of any magazine like that related to music because I'll often find something more interesting than the actual topic I was researching.

Again I'll say this place is an awesome resource for BB's info.

[bgas]

For those without LLVS, or The Billboard in question( is there anyone here like that?)
 It's on pages 16 & 17 of the Billboard and looks like this( perhaps a bit clearer than LLVS):  

 


   


I'm trading emails with Piers , in Canada, who swears his color Smile ad came from a January 1967 Billboard

[runnersdialzero]

Thank y'much for the scan. Time to create a bitchin' wallpaper!!!!11111

[Jeff]

The two With Me Tonight's (the TSS 1:30 version and the booted 3:00 version) appear to be Smiley sessions, not Smile sessions.  So only the April WMT on Hawthorne was recorded during Smile.

The Hawthorne liner notes actually say that the Hawthorne version of You're With Me Tonight was recorded in June as well.  http://www.albumlinernotes.com/Hawthorne__CA.html.  So it may well be that With Me Tonight was never attempted until the Smiley Smile sessions.

Interesting too that the TSS version of YWMT was recorded as a Vegetables session--and I bet the Hawthorne version was as well.  Then about 3 1/2 weeks later, it was broken out as its own song, with a slightly different name.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Dom's timeline - 1. he says Van Dyke left in March and returns in April - of course, he never returned after leaving in March.  Dom mentions this in his book as well - the problem is Van Dyke remembers recording Vegetables, but it was the Vegetables demo in Oct 66 he remembers.  He was not present on the April sessions.

I actually did not know that. In all fairness, though, the "Van Dyke leaving and returning, only to leave for good shortly thereafter" tale has shown up in pretty much all of the BB books, hasn't it?

[37!ws]

Sorry for the semi-hijack but I've been reading Dom's 2004 book as well and noticed several instances where he makes reference to things that I've either never heard elsewhere or have been told are incorrect.

....

Is this a case of Dom's 2004 book now being out of date or my own misunderstanding of the facts at hand?

I always suspected the 2004 book. Loaded with questionable content, really; didn't like it. I like Dom, but not the book. Ended up re-selling it. Just a lot that didn't seem right. My definitive Smile reading material is still LLV!S!...

[Bicyclerider]

Sessionography questions:
I always had Dec 13, not Dec 15 for You're Welcome - I guess I need to see what the 2fer liner notes say.  Could it be a typo?

No. Booklet p. 24, lower left picture. 

Yeah, interesting tape box.  We all know that Brian recorded Surf's Up Dec 15 at Columbia, with the Inside Pop cameras rolling, AFTER the other Beach Boys had left.  Then after Surf's Up on the tape, all the Beach Boys returned  (it's now well after midnight) to record You're Welcome?  To quote Robbie the Robot . . . "does not compute."  Seems to me they used the unused tape on the Surf's Up reel at a later date at Columbia to do You're Welcome.

[Bicyclerider]

Oh, and another "weird fact" in the sessionography.  The two Dadas from Dec 22 - no master number.  Looking at the Heroes sessions where no tape was found, it was recorded at a Heroes session.  What title was on the tape box, if any?  If "Dada" was on there, that would be interesting since it became "All Day" in January.  Perhaps on Dec 22 it was planned as a part of Heroes?  It's at such a different tempo and with such a different "feel" I find it hard to imagine as part of the A side of Heroes - even harder than imagining "intro chimes" as "Heroes Part 3."

[Andrew G. Doe]

"YW" and "Ball & Mitt" could very well have been recorded at the earlier Columbia session on 12/15/66

[Bicyclerider]

But isn't the order on the tape SU, YW, then B & M?  If so, then recording YW and B& M before SU wouldn't't majestic sense.  C-man?