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Author Topic: the vibes around current brian  (Read 10760 times)
Ron
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« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2011, 06:45:11 AM »

If you've ever known anyone with mental health issues, sometimes THEY are the ones making it the center of the universe. 
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« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2011, 01:30:57 PM »


I mean, even if he was, Brian Wilson is a man who the public mostly know as man with mental health problems. His condition should be acknowledged, and understood.

I see where you're coming from, and Brian's condition should be understood and acknowledged. I just feel that at times, the public perception of him suffering from mental health issues seems to overshadow his huge musical achievements. Sort of like, 'Yeah BW, he's that wierd old guy from the Beach Boys who took too many drugs and never quite came back'.  Huh

I would equate it with the people of Beethoven's time, saying, 'Yeah his music's all right, but ain't it amazing he can do it now he's deaf?'

Brian is imo a survivor, and less of a casualty. I wonder if it ever irks him that in most interviews and documentaries about him, a large amount of attention is given to his mental health problems, which ain't what he should be famous for. It would certainly annoy me if I wanted to talk about my music  Sad  Mental health issues are only a part of a person, not the be all and end all. But I suppose that doesn't make such good copy.
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« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2011, 02:15:44 PM »

If you've ever known anyone with mental health issues, sometimes THEY are the ones making it the center of the universe. 
Excellent observation, and I think this is the crux of what we are talking about in this thread.
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« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2011, 02:25:30 PM »


I mean, even if he was, Brian Wilson is a man who the public mostly know as man with mental health problems. His condition should be acknowledged, and understood.

I see where you're coming from, and Brian's condition should be understood and acknowledged. I just feel that at times, the public perception of him suffering from mental health issues seems to overshadow his huge musical achievements. Sort of like, 'Yeah BW, he's that wierd old guy from the Beach Boys who took too many drugs and never quite came back'.  Huh

I would equate it with the people of Beethoven's time, saying, 'Yeah his music's all right, but ain't it amazing he can do it now he's deaf?'

Brian is imo a survivor, and less of a casualty. I wonder if it ever irks him that in most interviews and documentaries about him, a large amount of attention is given to his mental health problems, which ain't what he should be famous for. It would certainly annoy me if I wanted to talk about my music  Sad  Mental health issues are only a part of a person, not the be all and end all. But I suppose that doesn't make such good copy.
I think it does bother him sometimes. When he has to answer poorly-researched questions from interviewers (usually right after they intro with the same black and white clip  'Surfin'' that we've all seen 2,000 times) it really affects his interview performance. Some of the best interviews I've read with Brian are ones where the interviewer wants to discuss his music and/or aspects of his life that haven't been gone over a million times.

I'm enjoying this thread because I'm sick to death of the focus on Brian's mental illness. It's like he's pigeonholed and he can never quite shake it, even after touring and releasing music for the most productive period in his life since the 60's.

Of course, the mawkish and prurient focus on Brian's illness is also present in his official productions (TLOS DVD, Beautiful Dreamer, etc.) Overall, the idea that a person can only aspire to the highest creative levels if they are mentally or physically damaged is a fallacy and is damaging to our culture. I hate to see it perpetuated by/through Brian.
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« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2011, 09:20:09 AM »


I mean, even if he was, Brian Wilson is a man who the public mostly know as man with mental health problems. His condition should be acknowledged, and understood.

I see where you're coming from, and Brian's condition should be understood and acknowledged. I just feel that at times, the public perception of him suffering from mental health issues seems to overshadow his huge musical achievements. Sort of like, 'Yeah BW, he's that wierd old guy from the Beach Boys who took too many drugs and never quite came back'.  Huh

I would equate it with the people of Beethoven's time, saying, 'Yeah his music's all right, but ain't it amazing he can do it now he's deaf?'

Brian is imo a survivor, and less of a casualty. I wonder if it ever irks him that in most interviews and documentaries about him, a large amount of attention is given to his mental health problems, which ain't what he should be famous for. It would certainly annoy me if I wanted to talk about my music  Sad  Mental health issues are only a part of a person, not the be all and end all. But I suppose that doesn't make such good copy.
I think it does bother him sometimes. When he has to answer poorly-researched questions from interviewers (usually right after they intro with the same black and white clip  'Surfin'' that we've all seen 2,000 times) it really affects his interview performance. Some of the best interviews I've read with Brian are ones where the interviewer wants to discuss his music and/or aspects of his life that haven't been gone over a million times.

I'm enjoying this thread because I'm sick to death of the focus on Brian's mental illness. It's like he's pigeonholed and he can never quite shake it, even after touring and releasing music for the most productive period in his life since the 60's.

Of course, the mawkish and prurient focus on Brian's illness is also present in his official productions (TLOS DVD, Beautiful Dreamer, etc.) Overall, the idea that a person can only aspire to the highest creative levels if they are mentally or physically damaged is a fallacy and is damaging to our culture. I hate to see it perpetuated by/through Brian.

Agreed. A few random reflections on this topic follow -

If Brian’s mental illness was the cause of his musical creativity, then surely lots more people with even more severe mental issues would be even greater ‘musical genii’. And how come he was able to create all his early stuff when he was apparently quite ‘well’? After all, when caught up in serious mental ‘episodes’, people cannot work at all. Even Van Gogh only painted when he was lucid and yet they call his paintings the work of a ‘mad man’.

And I bet BW is sick and tired of having his mental healthand drug history constantly referred to in interviews etc.

I think Brian’s unfortunate  ‘fame’ as the ‘damaged’ pop genius, especially re’ mental illness rather than through drugs  came out at around the same time as Daniel Johnston came to fame as a mentally ‘damaged’ writer / singer of strange yet beautiful pop songs in the late 1980’s. I’m not really comparing the two, I think they’re very different except that both have written emotionally powerful songs that may or may not be informed by their mental state.

If you take Pink Floyd’s late Syd Barrett, he did most of his best music before he got sick and then he retired from the public eye and music in the early ‘70s. He was apparently never institutionalised in later years to my knowledge and was obviously well enough to function as an independent human ‘in the community’. So was he really that sick or consciously/ unconsciously using it as a way to destroy his pop career and get back to the ‘real world’?

I don’t deny that certain substances like LSD can alter a creative person’s awareness and give their work a new, ‘strange’ flavour, but too much indulgence is clearly bad news for new work. Also, many artists can be truly ‘psychedelic’ without any resort to substances.

And less famously as a mental illness sufferer, Peter Green from the original Fleetwood Mac, has a history at least as sad as Brian’s, but has been playing guitar and performing/recording regularly for many years, but doesn’t seem to attract the press BW gets. Could it be because BW is more of a ‘great composer’ type who likes to be near a piano and has shown classical influences?
I also know that being in a work place with people with chronic mental illness can be deeply frustrating, especially when they’re on a ‘bad’ day or night and aren’t functioning as well as they can on peak form and would guess it can be quite ‘interesting’ playing in a band with a person who can be severely depressed/ erratic at times.

All speculation from an outside viewpoint of course, and one feels a little prurient even discussing people’s personal stuff on here, even if it is all in the public domain, other than out of historical interest in the BB/BW phenomena.

If I could interview BW today, I would love to ask Brian what he thinks of his late 1970’s music (ie’ Love You/ Adult/Child era), the Mount Vernon and Fairway suite, the Smile-esque Rio Grande suite (would love it if he did this live, especially segueing into or out of Heroes and Villains) on BW 88, the Wilson/ Paley sessions in ‘95ish,  his thoughts on Dennis and Carl’s solo work and song writing and other less well worn areas of his music career. I’d also like to lend him some CDs of the Flaming Lips, Animal Collective and other modern acts majorly inspired by him and see what he makes of their sounds. More interesting than Q ‘Brian, what’s your favourate BBs song?’-A ‘California Girls’ or ‘He still hears voices in his head woo hoo’, surely ...
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« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2011, 10:47:18 AM »

If you take Pink Floyd’s late Syd Barrett, he did most of his best music before he got sick and then he retired from the public eye and music in the early ‘70s. He was apparently never institutionalised in later years to my knowledge and was obviously well enough to function as an independent human ‘in the community’. So was he really that sick or consciously/ unconsciously using it as a way to destroy his pop career and get back to the ‘real world’?

As far as Syd goes this is a theory I've heard more and more in the years since he passed - that Syd was just a kind of angry, bitter, but otherwise mentally healthy guy who wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, and was happy to use the presumption of mental issues as a way to keep fans and the press at bay. 
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« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2011, 10:51:54 AM »

If you take Pink Floyd’s late Syd Barrett, he did most of his best music before he got sick and then he retired from the public eye and music in the early ‘70s. He was apparently never institutionalised in later years to my knowledge and was obviously well enough to function as an independent human ‘in the community’. So was he really that sick or consciously/ unconsciously using it as a way to destroy his pop career and get back to the ‘real world’?

As far as Syd goes this is a theory I've heard more and more in the years since he passed - that Syd was just a kind of angry, bitter, but otherwise mentally healthy guy who wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, and was happy to use the presumption of mental issues as a way to keep fans and the press at bay. 
I could see that theory working from the 1980s on, because if Brian got better somewhat better with help, then Syd could have as well. Syd looked pretty good as a normal middle aged man before he died.
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« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2011, 11:01:57 AM »

I mean, when I saw BW at the festival hall earlier this year, my friend (who knows f*ck all about Brian Wilson) was really quite worried by him, and (cos she's nice like this) found his condition alternately quite funny-peculiar. Which was.... kinda embarassing. I do stress, she's kinda dim.

I guess we cannot place the burden of the public perception of mental illness onto Brian's PR guy, but still. It's the thing we always mention when he makes TV appearances - people are going to think this guy is really ODD. And he is. Dude's not well. What's the problem with openly discussing it? People think he's odd because they have no idea about him, and so why it needs to be at least mentioned. Interviewers are almost always sensitive about it, as they damn well should be, but the alternative is insisting he's fine and then you've got 'Brian's Back' all over again. He's so much better than he used to be, it's true. But it absolutely needs to be in the discussion, as it affects the public perception of him. And the public are never that nice, really, so whatever they can do to educate people about Brian's issues. They don't have to pry, but it has to be discussed.

rant, rant.

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« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2011, 12:30:34 PM »

I mean, when I saw BW at the festival hall earlier this year, my friend (who knows f*ck all about Brian Wilson) was really quite worried by him, and (cos she's nice like this) found his condition alternately quite funny-peculiar. Which was.... kinda embarassing. I do stress, she's kinda dim.

I guess we cannot place the burden of the public perception of mental illness onto Brian's PR guy, but still. It's the thing we always mention when he makes TV appearances - people are going to think this guy is really ODD. And he is. Dude's not well. What's the problem with openly discussing it? People think he's odd because they have no idea about him, and so why it needs to be at least mentioned. Interviewers are almost always sensitive about it, as they damn well should be, but the alternative is insisting he's fine and then you've got 'Brian's Back' all over again. He's so much better than he used to be, it's true. But it absolutely needs to be in the discussion, as it affects the public perception of him. And the public are never that nice, really, so whatever they can do to educate people about Brian's issues. They don't have to pry, but it has to be discussed.

rant, rant.


I agree. I think it is important for people to realize Brian has day to day problems because he is not always "on" and sometimes does things like falling asleep during interviews.

However, EVERYONE knows these days that Brian has problems. There is no danger of people not knowing. "Brian's Back" was egregious for other reasons, but I suppose my point in all this is that every release of Brian's music (albums and DVDs) is accompanied by a quasi-"Brian's Back" campaign, and the rest of us are sitting here saying, "I never knew that he was gone!"
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« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2011, 12:43:51 PM »

I don't feel Brian has been allowed to make his own creative decisions for a long time. Some stuff he has done I am sure he liked, or really felt a part of, others it has been hype. Maybe I avoid the post 1974 Brian to some extent because it's hard for me to know if he wanted to do any of it. That said projects like Adult Child, The Paley sessions, or TLOS, show flashes of real quality. I would say I only really enjoy a third of his 1975-82 stuff and maybe twenty percent since. I just can't get into the solo years in a big way as I just feel Brian's discomfort so acutely at times. I feel sad for him watching videos of him post 1980 in most instances.  I think Brian is overall a sweet guy, but it is like he surrendered after Murry died and even more so after Dennis passed.
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« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2011, 01:13:07 PM »

I mean, when I saw BW at the festival hall earlier this year, my friend (who knows f*ck all about Brian Wilson) was really quite worried by him, and (cos she's nice like this) found his condition alternately quite funny-peculiar. Which was.... kinda embarassing. I do stress, she's kinda dim.

I guess we cannot place the burden of the public perception of mental illness onto Brian's PR guy, but still. It's the thing we always mention when he makes TV appearances - people are going to think this guy is really ODD. And he is. Dude's not well. What's the problem with openly discussing it? People think he's odd because they have no idea about him, and so why it needs to be at least mentioned. Interviewers are almost always sensitive about it, as they damn well should be, but the alternative is insisting he's fine and then you've got 'Brian's Back' all over again. He's so much better than he used to be, it's true. But it absolutely needs to be in the discussion, as it affects the public perception of him. And the public are never that nice, really, so whatever they can do to educate people about Brian's issues. They don't have to pry, but it has to be discussed.

rant, rant.


I agree. I think it is important for people to realize Brian has day to day problems because he is not always "on" and sometimes does things like falling asleep during interviews.

However, EVERYONE knows these days that Brian has problems. There is no danger of people not knowing. "Brian's Back" was egregious for other reasons, but I suppose my point in all this is that every release of Brian's music (albums and DVDs) is accompanied by a quasi-"Brian's Back" campaign, and the rest of us are sitting here saying, "I never knew that he was gone!"

But that's what I'm saying - not everyone knows Brian has problems! He's not as popular as we'd like to think, as a figure separate from The Beach Boys. Yeah, he's more active now than he's been in quite some time, but he's still not anything approaching 'popular' - we follow his career, so what you refer to is old news, but some people have no bloody clue who he is.
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« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2011, 01:36:50 PM »

If you take Pink Floyd’s late Syd Barrett, he did most of his best music before he got sick and then he retired from the public eye and music in the early ‘70s. He was apparently never institutionalised in later years to my knowledge and was obviously well enough to function as an independent human ‘in the community’. So was he really that sick or consciously/ unconsciously using it as a way to destroy his pop career and get back to the ‘real world’?

As far as Syd goes this is a theory I've heard more and more in the years since he passed - that Syd was just a kind of angry, bitter, but otherwise mentally healthy guy who wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, and was happy to use the presumption of mental issues as a way to keep fans and the press at bay. 

Interesting. I've suspected something like this about Barrett for a while, but have never heard anything to back it up until now. I know he was quite heavily into his painting later in life and shunned any contact from Floyd band members, fans, interviews, photographers etc until the end. Sounds like he just associated the Floyd era with a very unhappy time in his life and wanted to be well rid of it. Probably just wanted peace. Though I believe he lived modestly in Cambridge most of his life, I don't suppose the royalties from his Floyd and solo albums did him any harm either  Grin Shame if he felt he had to self-destruct his whole music career to get some peace though.

Anyway, back on topic  Smiley
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« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2011, 02:00:50 PM »

As far as Syd goes this is a theory I've heard more and more in the years since he passed - that Syd was just a kind of angry, bitter, but otherwise mentally healthy guy who wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, and was happy to use the presumption of mental issues as a way to keep fans and the press at bay. 

Of the many phrases I might use to describe Syd post-Floyd, "mentally healthy" is one I would never consider, even fleetingly. Everyone involved with him, family to musical colleagues, sings from the same hymnsheet, and that tune went "Syd was seriously damaged". Also, if he wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, why turn up at Abbey Road unannounced ?
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« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2011, 02:10:39 PM »

As far as Syd goes this is a theory I've heard more and more in the years since he passed - that Syd was just a kind of angry, bitter, but otherwise mentally healthy guy who wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, and was happy to use the presumption of mental issues as a way to keep fans and the press at bay.  

Of the many phrases I might use to describe Syd post-Floyd, "mentally healthy" is one I would never consider, even fleetingly. Everyone involved with him, family to musical colleagues, sings from the same hymnsheet, and that tune went "Syd was seriously damaged". Also, if he wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, why turn up at Abbey Road unannounced ?

Well, that was 1974. Like Brian, Peter Green and Roky Erickson, I suspect Barrett benefited from the proper use of medication later in life although, unlike with the other three, I don't know of any documentation to that effect.
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« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2011, 02:22:39 PM »

As far as Syd goes this is a theory I've heard more and more in the years since he passed - that Syd was just a kind of angry, bitter, but otherwise mentally healthy guy who wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, and was happy to use the presumption of mental issues as a way to keep fans and the press at bay.  

Of the many phrases I might use to describe Syd post-Floyd, "mentally healthy" is one I would never consider, even fleetingly. Everyone involved with him, family to musical colleagues, sings from the same hymnsheet, and that tune went "Syd was seriously damaged". Also, if he wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, why turn up at Abbey Road unannounced ?

Well, that was 1974. Like Brian, Peter Green and Roky Erickson, I suspect Barrett benefited from the proper use of medication later in life although, unlike with the other three, I don't know of any documentation to that effect.
Also, I am not a mental health expert, but I have read that some disorders on this spectrum (schizoaffective?) are ameliorated by changes to the brain that naturally happen after the age of 60. Brian is the poster child for this phenomenon.
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« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2011, 02:51:01 PM »

As far as Syd goes this is a theory I've heard more and more in the years since he passed - that Syd was just a kind of angry, bitter, but otherwise mentally healthy guy who wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, and was happy to use the presumption of mental issues as a way to keep fans and the press at bay.  

Of the many phrases I might use to describe Syd post-Floyd, "mentally healthy" is one I would never consider, even fleetingly. Everyone involved with him, family to musical colleagues, sings from the same hymnsheet, and that tune went "Syd was seriously damaged". Also, if he wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, why turn up at Abbey Road unannounced ?

Well, that was 1974. Like Brian, Peter Green and Roky Erickson, I suspect Barrett benefited from the proper use of medication later in life although, unlike with the other three, I don't know of any documentation to that effect.

Syd wasn't good at taking his medication, which is why he lost some fingers in later life (he was a diabetic). I see where you're trying to go, but the established and documented facts of Syd post-1974 was that except when he was briefly part of a community for people with problems like his, he lived in Cambridge in relative seclusion with his mother (then alone when she died, but his sister looked in every day) and saw almost no-one else other than on trips to the shops or when fans/journalists came knocking at his door. he saw the BBC documentary about himself, and his only reported comment was "it was rather loud". There's no reason to think eh was putting anything on to avoid the attentions of anyone - unless he was a hugely talented actor.
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« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2011, 03:05:31 PM »

This is the first I had heard that Syd lost his fingers. That is really sad.
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« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2011, 03:16:32 PM »

As far as Syd goes this is a theory I've heard more and more in the years since he passed - that Syd was just a kind of angry, bitter, but otherwise mentally healthy guy who wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, and was happy to use the presumption of mental issues as a way to keep fans and the press at bay.  

Of the many phrases I might use to describe Syd post-Floyd, "mentally healthy" is one I would never consider, even fleetingly. Everyone involved with him, family to musical colleagues, sings from the same hymnsheet, and that tune went "Syd was seriously damaged". Also, if he wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, why turn up at Abbey Road unannounced ?

Well, that was 1974. Like Brian, Peter Green and Roky Erickson, I suspect Barrett benefited from the proper use of medication later in life although, unlike with the other three, I don't know of any documentation to that effect.

Syd wasn't good at taking his medication, which is why he lost some fingers in later life (he was a diabetic). I see where you're trying to go, but the established and documented facts of Syd post-1974 was that except when he was briefly part of a community for people with problems like his, he lived in Cambridge in relative seclusion with his mother (then alone when she died, but his sister looked in every day) and saw almost no-one else other than on trips to the shops or when fans/journalists came knocking at his door. he saw the BBC documentary about himself, and his only reported comment was "it was rather loud". There's no reason to think eh was putting anything on to avoid the attentions of anyone - unless he was a hugely talented actor.
Actually 1975 but then he more or less killed Syd and became Roger. He talked casually to a reporter in 1982 but that was it. Syd in 1968-70 was still pretty creative, what happened from there is I guess he just got worse. After July 1967 I wouldn't call him sane either, but it's hard to figure out what was really wrong.
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« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2011, 03:55:24 PM »

Well, it was just theory.  Like gravity.

I guess I had read a piece from Syd's sister where she claimed that in the last decade or so of his life he was effectively unmedicated and free of any particular diagnosable psychiatric condition, and combined this with a few other possibly-spurious anecdotes about his alleged health in my mind. 

Of course I am talking more about the 80s-90s.  After the 70s, as far as I know, there aren't really any more salacious 'crazy Syd' stories that would suggest what was going on with him, so there are some grounds for speculation that his silence/withdrawal was a deliberate, self-possessed act and not the product of mental instability.
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« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2011, 05:24:17 PM »

As far as Syd goes this is a theory I've heard more and more in the years since he passed - that Syd was just a kind of angry, bitter, but otherwise mentally healthy guy who wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, and was happy to use the presumption of mental issues as a way to keep fans and the press at bay.  

Of the many phrases I might use to describe Syd post-Floyd, "mentally healthy" is one I would never consider, even fleetingly. Everyone involved with him, family to musical colleagues, sings from the same hymnsheet, and that tune went "Syd was seriously damaged". Also, if he wanted to avoid all association with his musical past, why turn up at Abbey Road unannounced ?

Well, that was 1974. Like Brian, Peter Green and Roky Erickson, I suspect Barrett benefited from the proper use of medication later in life although, unlike with the other three, I don't know of any documentation to that effect.

Syd wasn't good at taking his medication, which is why he lost some fingers in later life (he was a diabetic). I see where you're trying to go, but the established and documented facts of Syd post-1974 was that except when he was briefly part of a community for people with problems like his, he lived in Cambridge in relative seclusion with his mother (then alone when she died, but his sister looked in every day) and saw almost no-one else other than on trips to the shops or when fans/journalists came knocking at his door. he saw the BBC documentary about himself, and his only reported comment was "it was rather loud". There's no reason to think eh was putting anything on to avoid the attentions of anyone - unless he was a hugely talented actor.

Thanks for this - no offense anazgno, but I don't understand how anyone could believe Syd was just "angry". I mean maybe he was, I don't know, but some of the stuff he did in the 60s as well as later spending time in a mental institute are well established. There are varying degrees of this stuff, obviously, and I do think Syd recovered a bit. However, in most cases (and seemingly his, too), you can recover but you never fully "come back". Same goes for Brian.

I will say, though, that the notion his sister laid out - that he knew what people wanted from him but refused to give it to them, seems about right. People think he "lost it" and that's why he stopped creating music, but it feels fairly obvious that he just lost interest in creating music completely. It happens. I do recall the "rather loud" comment, but there was also him mentioning enjoying hearing "See Emily Play" again, which I always thought was pretty cool.

Also, yeah, had no idea he'd lost fingers Sad that really sucks.
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« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2011, 11:38:56 AM »

I read that interview with Syd's sister, too.  She was in denial.  I'm not sure why family members of mentally ill people feel stigmatized by the label of schizophrenia.  I think that's why now, in the States, the phrase more frequently used has become "schizoaffective."  I'm not sure if it's the medical community wanting to make distinctions or wanting to spare family members or patient's egos.  Like the way it's now said that Brian is not now or never was a schizophrenic, even though he has all the symptoms of the disease and would have been said to be schizophrenic a few decades ago, by the old definition.  Melinda even put out a press release several years ago saying that Brian was diagnosed with suffering from depression only (not even schizoaffective) and that he was only taking the anti-depressant Luvox, and that Luvox alone had eliminated his symptoms.  But Brian himself told an interviewer a few months later that he was taking five medications, including medications normally only given to people with schizophrenic symptoms like hearing voices or having hallucinations.  I'm not sure why Melinda did that, unless she either wanted to (over)protect Brian or got a kickback from the company that makes Luvox, since she mentioned it by name.  In any case, maybe it's the same instinct that made Syd's sister deny that there was anything much wrong with her brother.
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« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2011, 12:04:05 PM »

I don't feel Brian has been allowed to make his own creative decisions for a long time. Some stuff he has done I am sure he liked, or really felt a part of, others it has been hype. Maybe I avoid the post 1974 Brian to some extent because it's hard for me to know if he wanted to do any of it. That said projects like Adult Child, The Paley sessions, or TLOS, show flashes of real quality. I would say I only really enjoy a third of his 1975-82 stuff and maybe twenty percent since. I just can't get into the solo years in a big way as I just feel Brian's discomfort so acutely at times. I feel sad for him watching videos of him post 1980 in most instances.  I think Brian is overall a sweet guy, but it is like he surrendered after Murry died and even more so after Dennis passed.

Mike, I could not disagree MORE with your post.

First, if Brian had really "surrendered" as you say, then why did he challenge himself to start up touring in 1998?  We know that Brian has MAJOR "stage fright" issues, SO... for him to come back and tour, and deal with that fear, to me that shows heart,  guts and MAJOR cajones!

Also, TLOS is not a "flash of quality".  To me, it's a career peak, one that stands taller than much of his work, in any era.

IMHO
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 10:57:34 AM by heysaboda » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2011, 08:43:33 AM »

I read that interview with Syd's sister, too.  She was in denial.  I'm not sure why family members of mentally ill people feel stigmatized by the label of schizophrenia.  I think that's why now, in the States, the phrase more frequently used has become "schizoaffective."  I'm not sure if it's the medical community wanting to make distinctions or wanting to spare family members or patient's egos.  Like the way it's now said that Brian is not now or never was a schizophrenic, even though he has all the symptoms of the disease and would have been said to be schizophrenic a few decades ago, by the old definition.  Melinda even put out a press release several years ago saying that Brian was diagnosed with suffering from depression only (not even schizoaffective) and that he was only taking the anti-depressant Luvox, and that Luvox alone had eliminated his symptoms.  But Brian himself told an interviewer a few months later that he was taking five medications, including medications normally only given to people with schizophrenic symptoms like hearing voices or having hallucinations.  I'm not sure why Melinda did that, unless she either wanted to (over)protect Brian or got a kickback from the company that makes Luvox, since she mentioned it by name.  In any case, maybe it's the same instinct that made Syd's sister deny that there was anything much wrong with her brother.

Schizoaffective is more a combination of symptoms associated with Bipolar disorder and Schizophrenia proper than an actual attempt to replace Schizophrenia - and even then, it's being debated where or not it deserves a place in the DSM-V.

But yes, people would rather pretend that their loved one is perfectly okay than admit that the person has something wrong with him. (Look at Brian in the '70s.) It's a simple matter that dealing with a mental illness is an incredibly stressful process, especially in cases where there are 'ups' and 'downs'. It's natural that people choose to take the easier way as opposed to tacking such a difficult problem head on, again, especially in cases where people can rebound significantly. Quadruple that when the person is famous - as Syd and Brian were/are. Admitting a famous loved one has a mental illness means more media attention, which the person probably doesn't need.
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« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2011, 11:56:14 AM »

It just dawned on me that Brian's actual presence or "non-presence" in music-related projects has been marketed by referring to his overall state of mind for such a long time it's incredible. Just take a glimpse at the back cover of Holland (where he seems to be thoroughly depressed, you'd think they could have found a better photograph than this...) and then read the album's original liner notes: "He once retired to his room, somewhere in the rambling Edgar Rice Burroughs house in Bel Air, for six solid months. To further avoid even local travel, he constructed a substantial studio in the living room of this same house (a '30s Gothic affair, right down to the secret panels)."

Makes me wonder when this all really started to take on a life of its own.
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« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2011, 02:16:08 PM »

It's been an issue since the late 1960s, really.  Brian stopped appearing with the band or even on record covers (or he was crudely pasted in).  Also, writers who interviewed him during that period had no choice but to write what he was saying to them.  There's an interview David Dalton did with him in 1968 where Brian was convinced that David was Phil Spector.  I'm not sure if that interview was published in '68 or later, but I'm sure the music community and the press knew about Brian's condition. 
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