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Author Topic: Evolution of Heroes and Villains  (Read 12063 times)
Bicyclerider
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« on: October 19, 2011, 07:31:22 PM »

Based on the new box set and the reviews, I think we have a better idea of what Brian was thinking with the song Heroes and Villains.

First version:
Heroes verses/Great Shape/Barnyard - this is the demo version from Nov 4.  "We're still working."  An early pre Van Dyke version may have had My Only Sunshine as part of the song (May) but this is version was erased.

Late Nov/early Dec:
Heroes/Great Shape/"chimes" intro/Barnyard - chimes intro is slated as "Heroes Part 3."  In addition there's a report that the "sunny down snuff" section was attempted but not recorded in December, this would presumably have been between the chimes intro and Barnyard.

If this is well after the track list, then Great Shape/Barnyard have moved into their own track, and we move on to:

January:
Heroes/Bicycle Rider/Bag of Tricks/3rd verse/part 1 tag

Bag of Tricks replaces chimes intro.  "Bridge to Indians" is a transition piece to Bicycle Rider, "pick up to 3rd verse precedes the 3rd verse ("3 score and 5"), and by this point the a capella verse is probably somewhere in there,  probably after Bicycle Rider.  Not sure where or if the version of Do a Lot here would fit somewhere.

February:
Cantina version - cantina replaces BR, tag is now false Barnyard, Bag of Tricks/intro is gone, my children were raised is added .

With Part 1 completed, end of February/March 1 & 2 are devoted to Part 2 except for the bizarre attempt to rerecord the verse tracking.


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Jim V.
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« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2011, 07:45:42 PM »

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the "chimes" intro?
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2011, 08:00:58 PM »

Same bassline/structure as the "Intro to Heroes" that David Leaf attached permanently to the beginning of the Fire track, but instead of the whistles and organ there's a chiming bell.  Dated to December by TSS.

As a side note, I've noticed that there are a lot of instrumental pieces to Heroes and other tracks of Smile that would almost certainly have had vocals on them if they had been finished - we all know that Dom at one point said Brian wanted all these instrumental sections as is (part of his theory that the album was finished), but that's obviously out of the box.  Take the chimes intro/Bag of Tricks/intro to Heroes.  These pieces were far more likely to have the Fall Breaks kind of vocals over them than Fire - in fact, Bag of Tricks has the same bass lines as Fall Breaks.  It was very rare for Brian to record an all instrumental middle 8 or break, unless the whole track was to stay an instrumental of course.  Prelude to Fade (Western theme) was to have lyrics as Brian says during the session.  tag to Part 1 no doubt would have had vocals.  The break in Child which was left without vocals on BWPS no doubt would have had something on top of it besides the strings.

The only all instrumental break I can think of right now prior to Smile was Here Today - not counting a two or four bar instrumental leading into a vocal sesion (like God Only Knows).  And not counting the early surf stuff that would have a lead guitar break by Carl as a middle 8.
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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2011, 08:56:59 PM »

So how about the brawl in the bar?  Truth or myth?

And what's the likelihood that a mix of the version incorporating Banyard and Great Shape existed?
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« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2011, 04:25:00 AM »

Based on the new box set and the reviews, I think we have a better idea of what Brian was thinking with the song Heroes and Villains.

First version:
Heroes verses/Great Shape/Barnyard - this is the demo version from Nov 4.  "We're still working."  An early pre Van Dyke version may have had My Only Sunshine as part of the song (May) but this is version was erased.

Late Nov/early Dec:
Heroes/Great Shape/"chimes" intro/Barnyard - chimes intro is slated as "Heroes Part 3."  In addition there's a report that the "sunny down snuff" section was attempted but not recorded in December, this would presumably have been between the chimes intro and Barnyard.

If this is well after the track list, then Great Shape/Barnyard have moved into their own track, and we move on to:

January:
Heroes/Bicycle Rider/Bag of Tricks/3rd verse/part 1 tag

Bag of Tricks replaces chimes intro.  "Bridge to Indians" is a transition piece to Bicycle Rider, "pick up to 3rd verse precedes the 3rd verse ("3 score and 5"), and by this point the a capella verse is probably somewhere in there,  probably after Bicycle Rider.  Not sure where or if the version of Do a Lot here would fit somewhere.

February:
Cantina version - cantina replaces BR, tag is now false Barnyard, Bag of Tricks/intro is gone, my children were raised is added .

With Part 1 completed, end of February/March 1 & 2 are devoted to Part 2 except for the bizarre attempt to rerecord the verse tracking.




Great idea - need to put my brain in gear for this though - later  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2011, 07:37:21 AM »

I never could figure out how Brian didn't realize how fantastic the version with duet vocal with Mike followed by the barbershop over the backing track was.  It is simply amazing and would have been a smash follow-up to GV. 
There is a mix on Youtube under the monitor of Brian Wilson/Mike Love that  is really something.
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« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2011, 07:53:06 AM »

 Afro
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 08:45:02 AM by mammy blue » Logged
Chris Brown
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« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2011, 08:46:00 AM »

Is the Brian/Mike tradeoff vocal session included in the box set? I couldn't find a reference to it anywhere in the "description".

I was thinking it might be the track titled "Verse Edit Experiment" on CD2 - I certainly hope so, I agree that it's a damn cool edit.
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« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2011, 09:29:05 AM »

Is the Brian/Mike tradeoff vocal session included in the box set? I couldn't find a reference to it anywhere in the "description".

I was thinking it might be the track titled "Verse Edit Experiment" on CD2 - I certainly hope so, I agree that it's a damn cool edit.

I read "Verse Edit Experiment" as that thing where it's the verse ending abruptly and going directly into 'Bridge To Indians'.

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Chris Brown
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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2011, 09:37:41 AM »

Is the Brian/Mike tradeoff vocal session included in the box set? I couldn't find a reference to it anywhere in the "description".

I was thinking it might be the track titled "Verse Edit Experiment" on CD2 - I certainly hope so, I agree that it's a damn cool edit.

I read "Verse Edit Experiment" as that thing where it's the verse ending abruptly and going directly into 'Bridge To Indians'.



Yep, and that's a Brian/Mike shared lead edit as well.  It's on Heroes Sessions Volume II, and it comes in at about 45 seconds, so it may well be the same track from the box.  It's an interesting edit, presumably done to link the verse to Bicycle Rider while at the same time keeping the exciting feel of the Cantina version.
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Matt Bielewicz
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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2011, 10:29:53 AM »

I never could figure out how Brian didn't realize how fantastic the version with duet vocal with Mike followed by the barbershop over the backing track was.  It is simply amazing and would have been a smash follow-up to GV. 
There is a mix on Youtube under the monitor of Brian Wilson/Mike Love that  is really something.

I'm absolutely with you on that, Michael. The mono mix where the accapella vocals are heard after 'three score and five', but with the drums and bass *unmuted* and playing on through that section... it's just terrific.

Poor old Brian. He just had too *many* good ideas, and couldn't see the wood for the trees...

MattB
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« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2011, 11:40:26 AM »

always thought and read about H&V first sessions dating from august 66 (hapsichord lines....)!
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« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2011, 12:15:26 PM »

I really wish we could hear the first Heroes session, might Brian have done a complete backing track of the song then?
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« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2011, 10:49:38 PM »

I never could figure out how Brian didn't realize how fantastic the version with duet vocal with Mike followed by the barbershop over the backing track was.  It is simply amazing and would have been a smash follow-up to GV. 
There is a mix on Youtube under the monitor of Brian Wilson/Mike Love that  is really something.

This is an opinion, of course. Personally, I don't enjoy much the way they both sing there. In addition to that, the vocal splits in the middle of sentences distract me. My favorite vocal is the one on the Cantina mix, it has more "edge" than the sweeter sung released version. My dream version would be if Mike had sung the whole verses with the edge Brian had on the Cantina mix. The halves Mike does on the split version aren't as good as he could have been.

I'm not putting your opinion down though, of course, it's as valid as mine.
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« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2011, 08:33:59 AM »

I really wish we could hear the first Heroes session, might Brian have done a complete backing track of the song then?

Is that not track 3 on CD2 of the box set?Huh?
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« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2011, 08:51:15 AM »

No, the first session was in May, apparently before he presented the song to Van Dyke.  It was still called Heroes and Villains though (which means that was Brian's title).  The tape was erased/dubbed over, so it's gone forever.
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desmondo
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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2011, 09:05:05 AM »

No, the first session was in May, apparently before he presented the song to Van Dyke.  It was still called Heroes and Villains though (which means that was Brian's title).  The tape was erased/dubbed over, so it's gone forever.

Thanks BR - what a shame so much is lost - always wondered what it sounded like
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« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2011, 10:54:01 AM »

No, the first session was in May, apparently before he presented the song to Van Dyke.  It was still called Heroes and Villains though (which means that was Brian's title).  The tape was erased/dubbed over, so it's gone forever.

Thanks BR - what a shame so much is lost - always wondered what it sounded like

Well, I'm looking for investors for my time machine.

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Jim V.
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« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2011, 11:07:01 PM »

Based on the new box set and the reviews, I think we have a better idea of what Brian was thinking with the song Heroes and Villains.

First version:
Heroes verses/Great Shape/Barnyard - this is the demo version from Nov 4.  "We're still working."  An early pre Van Dyke version may have had My Only Sunshine as part of the song (May) but this is version was erased.

Late Nov/early Dec:
Heroes/Great Shape/"chimes" intro/Barnyard - chimes intro is slated as "Heroes Part 3."  In addition there's a report that the "sunny down snuff" section was attempted but not recorded in December, this would presumably have been between the chimes intro and Barnyard.

If this is well after the track list, then Great Shape/Barnyard have moved into their own track, and we move on to:

January:
Heroes/Bicycle Rider/Bag of Tricks/3rd verse/part 1 tag

Bag of Tricks replaces chimes intro.  "Bridge to Indians" is a transition piece to Bicycle Rider, "pick up to 3rd verse precedes the 3rd verse ("3 score and 5"), and by this point the a capella verse is probably somewhere in there,  probably after Bicycle Rider.  Not sure where or if the version of Do a Lot here would fit somewhere.

February:
Cantina version - cantina replaces BR, tag is now false Barnyard, Bag of Tricks/intro is gone, my children were raised is added .

With Part 1 completed, end of February/March 1 & 2 are devoted to Part 2 except for the bizarre attempt to rerecord the verse tracking.




Hey Bicyclerider, have you (or a anybody else) tried a to make a mix of the "Heroes"/"Great Shape"/Chimes/"Barnyard" idea? I tried, but wasn't too happy with my attempt. Hopefully somebody can pull it off decently.

Also, I gotta say my only major disappointment with the box is that they didn't find/try a mix of "Heroes And Villains" than shoehorned both "I'm In Great Shape" and "Barnyard" in. I'd say there is enough "historical evidence" to give it some weight, and even if they wanted to stay away from labeling it as a true attempt at another version, they could call it a "sections" piece like the "Heroes" sections tracks on discs 1 and 4.
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« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2011, 08:09:21 PM »

Based on the new box set and the reviews, I think we have a better idea of what Brian was thinking with the song Heroes and Villains.

First version:
Heroes verses/Great Shape/Barnyard - this is the demo version from Nov 4.  "We're still working."  An early pre Van Dyke version may have had My Only Sunshine as part of the song (May) but this is version was erased.

Late Nov/early Dec:
Heroes/Great Shape/"chimes" intro/Barnyard - chimes intro is slated as "Heroes Part 3."  In addition there's a report that the "sunny down snuff" section was attempted but not recorded in December, this would presumably have been between the chimes intro and Barnyard.

If this is well after the track list, then Great Shape/Barnyard have moved into their own track, and we move on to:

January:
Heroes/Bicycle Rider/Bag of Tricks/3rd verse/part 1 tag

Bag of Tricks replaces chimes intro.  "Bridge to Indians" is a transition piece to Bicycle Rider, "pick up to 3rd verse precedes the 3rd verse ("3 score and 5"), and by this point the a capella verse is probably somewhere in there,  probably after Bicycle Rider.  Not sure where or if the version of Do a Lot here would fit somewhere.

February:
Cantina version - cantina replaces BR, tag is now false Barnyard, Bag of Tricks/intro is gone, my children were raised is added .

With Part 1 completed, end of February/March 1 & 2 are devoted to Part 2 except for the bizarre attempt to rerecord the verse tracking.




Hey Bicyclerider, have you (or a anybody else) tried a to make a mix of the "Heroes"/"Great Shape"/Chimes/"Barnyard" idea? I tried, but wasn't too happy with my attempt. Hopefully somebody can pull it off decently.

Also, I gotta say my only major disappointment with the box is that they didn't find/try a mix of "Heroes And Villains" than shoehorned both "I'm In Great Shape" and "Barnyard" in. I'd say there is enough "historical evidence" to give it some weight, and even if they wanted to stay away from labeling it as a true attempt at another version, they could call it a "sections" piece like the "Heroes" sections tracks on discs 1 and 4.

It's hard for me to imagine "Chimes" fitting anywhere - not the beginning of the song, and certainly not right in the middle.  Probably the second most confounding "Heroes" section, aside from the February re-record of the fade with Carl singing live with the band.
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desmondo
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« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2011, 06:57:01 AM »

Based on the new box set and the reviews, I think we have a better idea of what Brian was thinking with the song Heroes and Villains.

First version:
Heroes verses/Great Shape/Barnyard - this is the demo version from Nov 4.  "We're still working."  An early pre Van Dyke version may have had My Only Sunshine as part of the song (May) but this is version was erased.

Late Nov/early Dec:
Heroes/Great Shape/"chimes" intro/Barnyard - chimes intro is slated as "Heroes Part 3."  In addition there's a report that the "sunny down snuff" section was attempted but not recorded in December, this would presumably have been between the chimes intro and Barnyard.

If this is well after the track list, then Great Shape/Barnyard have moved into their own track, and we move on to:

January:
Heroes/Bicycle Rider/Bag of Tricks/3rd verse/part 1 tag

Bag of Tricks replaces chimes intro.  "Bridge to Indians" is a transition piece to Bicycle Rider, "pick up to 3rd verse precedes the 3rd verse ("3 score and 5"), and by this point the a capella verse is probably somewhere in there,  probably after Bicycle Rider.  Not sure where or if the version of Do a Lot here would fit somewhere.

February:
Cantina version - cantina replaces BR, tag is now false Barnyard, Bag of Tricks/intro is gone, my children were raised is added .

With Part 1 completed, end of February/March 1 & 2 are devoted to Part 2 except for the bizarre attempt to rerecord the verse tracking.




1.According to many the first H&V was in May and it included a version of YAMS - whether IIGS and BY were included then as well is unknown - the tape was lost or taped over apparently

2. Sorry but what are the references for your versions up to the February Cantina version - IMHO the only place for chimes/bag of tricks/etc is as an INtro as per Track 6 CD 2 on TSS

3. We also now have TSS CD 4 Track 24 from Jan/Feb 67 - presumably the version before the Cantina version was finalised

4. The Cantina is obviously H&V Part One

5. Then we get the Smiley Version

6. Then BWPS

7. Finally TSS - CD1
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« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2011, 05:28:54 AM »

After December '66 the only two songs the group did vocals for were "Heroes & Villains" and "Vega-Tables"--both of which were reported to become the group's next single. Have often wondered if the group tended to cooperate more in the studio with the pressure to get the next single done.

At the beginning of the Humble Harv Brian is talking about repetition & things being around for a long time & becoming visual. The "Heroes & Villains" "Sections", "Part 2", and the like are perhaps an attempt to achieve this effect via repetition. These little bits & pieces did not included few VDP lyrics.

One may wonder if Brian didn't change plans along the way to achieve the same end result. The Jules Siegel article even has Brian questioning the effectiveness of the lyrics in December right before the bits & repetitive pieces took precedence.

Trying a new way to achieve the same end result may be why there is more than an album's worth of material for SMiLE.

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« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2011, 08:49:17 AM »

Based on the new box set and the reviews, I think we have a better idea of what Brian was thinking with the song Heroes and Villains.

First version:
Heroes verses/Great Shape/Barnyard - this is the demo version from Nov 4.  "We're still working."  An early pre Van Dyke version may have had My Only Sunshine as part of the song (May) but this is version was erased.

Late Nov/early Dec:
Heroes/Great Shape/"chimes" intro/Barnyard - chimes intro is slated as "Heroes Part 3."  In addition there's a report that the "sunny down snuff" section was attempted but not recorded in December, this would presumably have been between the chimes intro and Barnyard.

If this is well after the track list, then Great Shape/Barnyard have moved into their own track, and we move on to:

January:
Heroes/Bicycle Rider/Bag of Tricks/3rd verse/part 1 tag

Bag of Tricks replaces chimes intro.  "Bridge to Indians" is a transition piece to Bicycle Rider, "pick up to 3rd verse precedes the 3rd verse ("3 score and 5"), and by this point the a capella verse is probably somewhere in there,  probably after Bicycle Rider.  Not sure where or if the version of Do a Lot here would fit somewhere.

February:
Cantina version - cantina replaces BR, tag is now false Barnyard, Bag of Tricks/intro is gone, my children were raised is added .

With Part 1 completed, end of February/March 1 & 2 are devoted to Part 2 except for the bizarre attempt to rerecord the verse tracking.




1.According to many the first H&V was in May and it included a version of YAMS - whether IIGS and BY were included then as well is unknown - the tape was lost or taped over apparently

2. Sorry but what are the references for your versions up to the February Cantina version - IMHO the only place for chimes/bag of tricks/etc is as an INtro as per Track 6 CD 2 on TSS

3. We also now have TSS CD 4 Track 24 from Jan/Feb 67 - presumably the version before the Cantina version was finalised

4. The Cantina is obviously H&V Part One

5. Then we get the Smiley Version

6. Then BWPS

7. Finally TSS - CD1

1.  Yeah, I said that - read my post
2.  Reference for version one - the Humble Harv demo - it's on TSS and on Endless Harmony. 

Reference for version two - with chimes included - is the session track for the chimes "intro" (I call it that because historically it's been assumed it's a different version of "intro to H & V" from March 67 - which it is, BUT) which is slated ON the session tape as "Heroes Part 3."  If on the demo the verse is part one and great shape is part two, which it clearly is on the demo, then the "chimes intro" would come next. 

Reference for the January version - the "Bicycle Rider" vocals and fuzz bass overdub are recorded Jan 5 logged as a Heroes session.  since the December track list included "Great Shape" (which presumably ALSO would include "Barnyard, although one could argue it was still the fade at this point), so BR replaces Shape.  He also recorded "Bag of Tricks" which is an "intro" style piece, again for Heroes - doubt it AND "chimes intro" would be included, so it replaces the chimes intro.  He also records in January "tag to Part 1" so if he was thinking about a two sided single, it would replace Barnyard as the tag.  I find it hard to fit in after the verse (Part 1 of the song) but I guess it's possible.

3.  What's the structure of CD4/track 24?

4. The SECTION "cantina" is Part 2 of the A sided single.  Brian uses "Part" to designate sections within songs AS WELL as, with Heroes and Villains at some point, "Part 2" as "side two" of the two sided single.  the entire version of Heroes including cantina is "Part 1" of the two sided single.

These are my theories about the evolution of the song based on the evidence of the session tapes and the sessionography.   They aren't meant to be presented as fact, so I'd love to hear counterarguments or theories based on tape evidence.
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« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2011, 09:19:44 AM »

Based on the new box set and the reviews, I think we have a better idea of what Brian was thinking with the song Heroes and Villains.

First version:
Heroes verses/Great Shape/Barnyard - this is the demo version from Nov 4.  "We're still working."  An early pre Van Dyke version may have had My Only Sunshine as part of the song (May) but this is version was erased.

Late Nov/early Dec:
Heroes/Great Shape/"chimes" intro/Barnyard - chimes intro is slated as "Heroes Part 3."  In addition there's a report that the "sunny down snuff" section was attempted but not recorded in December, this would presumably have been between the chimes intro and Barnyard.

If this is well after the track list, then Great Shape/Barnyard have moved into their own track, and we move on to:

January:
Heroes/Bicycle Rider/Bag of Tricks/3rd verse/part 1 tag

Bag of Tricks replaces chimes intro.  "Bridge to Indians" is a transition piece to Bicycle Rider, "pick up to 3rd verse precedes the 3rd verse ("3 score and 5"), and by this point the a capella verse is probably somewhere in there,  probably after Bicycle Rider.  Not sure where or if the version of Do a Lot here would fit somewhere.

February:
Cantina version - cantina replaces BR, tag is now false Barnyard, Bag of Tricks/intro is gone, my children were raised is added .

With Part 1 completed, end of February/March 1 & 2 are devoted to Part 2 except for the bizarre attempt to rerecord the verse tracking.




1.According to many the first H&V was in May and it included a version of YAMS - whether IIGS and BY were included then as well is unknown - the tape was lost or taped over apparently

2. Sorry but what are the references for your versions up to the February Cantina version - IMHO the only place for chimes/bag of tricks/etc is as an INtro as per Track 6 CD 2 on TSS

3. We also now have TSS CD 4 Track 24 from Jan/Feb 67 - presumably the version before the Cantina version was finalised

4. The Cantina is obviously H&V Part One

5. Then we get the Smiley Version

6. Then BWPS

7. Finally TSS - CD1

1.  Yeah, I said that - read my post
2.  Reference for version one - the Humble Harv demo - it's on TSS and on Endless Harmony. 

Reference for version two - with chimes included - is the session track for the chimes "intro" (I call it that because historically it's been assumed it's a different version of "intro to H & V" from March 67 - which it is, BUT) which is slated ON the session tape as "Heroes Part 3."  If on the demo the verse is part one and great shape is part two, which it clearly is on the demo, then the "chimes intro" would come next. 

Reference for the January version - the "Bicycle Rider" vocals and fuzz bass overdub are recorded Jan 5 logged as a Heroes session.  since the December track list included "Great Shape" (which presumably ALSO would include "Barnyard, although one could argue it was still the fade at this point), so BR replaces Shape.  He also recorded "Bag of Tricks" which is an "intro" style piece, again for Heroes - doubt it AND "chimes intro" would be included, so it replaces the chimes intro.  He also records in January "tag to Part 1" so if he was thinking about a two sided single, it would replace Barnyard as the tag.  I find it hard to fit in after the verse (Part 1 of the song) but I guess it's possible.

3.  What's the structure of CD4/track 24?

4. The SECTION "cantina" is Part 2 of the A sided single.  Brian uses "Part" to designate sections within songs AS WELL as, with Heroes and Villains at some point, "Part 2" as "side two" of the two sided single.  the entire version of Heroes including cantina is "Part 1" of the two sided single.

These are my theories about the evolution of the song based on the evidence of the session tapes and the sessionography.   They aren't meant to be presented as fact, so I'd love to hear counterarguments or theories based on tape evidence.


The May take - yep sorry missed your comment

Re your version two including Chimes/Intro/BAg of Tricks/Organ Waltz - will have an investigate

The structure of CD4 version from Jan/Feb 67 is as follows

1. Normal first verse although the lead vocal sounds quite laid back ( more than normal

2. Whistle/Dum Dum section

3. My Children were raised accapella with Often wise/piano section

4. Wordless vocal verse

5. In the Cantina

6. How I love my girl (Gee)

7. Dit Dit accapella H&V with handclaps and the one/two note bass line

8. HEroes & Villains accapella - with the clip clop thing

9 False BArnyard with hum dum vocals

I think thats it




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« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2011, 01:55:01 PM »

Based on the new box set and the reviews, I think we have a better idea of what Brian was thinking with the song Heroes and Villains.

First version:
Heroes verses/Great Shape/Barnyard - this is the demo version from Nov 4.  "We're still working."  An early pre Van Dyke version may have had My Only Sunshine as part of the song (May) but this is version was erased.

Late Nov/early Dec:
Heroes/Great Shape/"chimes" intro/Barnyard - chimes intro is slated as "Heroes Part 3."  In addition there's a report that the "sunny down snuff" section was attempted but not recorded in December, this would presumably have been between the chimes intro and Barnyard.

If this is well after the track list, then Great Shape/Barnyard have moved into their own track, and we move on to:

January:
Heroes/Bicycle Rider/Bag of Tricks/3rd verse/part 1 tag

Bag of Tricks replaces chimes intro.  "Bridge to Indians" is a transition piece to Bicycle Rider, "pick up to 3rd verse precedes the 3rd verse ("3 score and 5"), and by this point the a capella verse is probably somewhere in there,  probably after Bicycle Rider.  Not sure where or if the version of Do a Lot here would fit somewhere.

February:
Cantina version - cantina replaces BR, tag is now false Barnyard, Bag of Tricks/intro is gone, my children were raised is added .

With Part 1 completed, end of February/March 1 & 2 are devoted to Part 2 except for the bizarre attempt to rerecord the verse tracking.




1.According to many the first H&V was in May and it included a version of YAMS - whether IIGS and BY were included then as well is unknown - the tape was lost or taped over apparently

2. Sorry but what are the references for your versions up to the February Cantina version - IMHO the only place for chimes/bag of tricks/etc is as an INtro as per Track 6 CD 2 on TSS

3. We also now have TSS CD 4 Track 24 from Jan/Feb 67 - presumably the version before the Cantina version was finalised

4. The Cantina is obviously H&V Part One

5. Then we get the Smiley Version

6. Then BWPS

7. Finally TSS - CD1

1.  Yeah, I said that - read my post
2.  Reference for version one - the Humble Harv demo - it's on TSS and on Endless Harmony. 

Reference for version two - with chimes included - is the session track for the chimes "intro" (I call it that because historically it's been assumed it's a different version of "intro to H & V" from March 67 - which it is, BUT) which is slated ON the session tape as "Heroes Part 3."  If on the demo the verse is part one and great shape is part two, which it clearly is on the demo, then the "chimes intro" would come next. 

Reference for the January version - the "Bicycle Rider" vocals and fuzz bass overdub are recorded Jan 5 logged as a Heroes session.  since the December track list included "Great Shape" (which presumably ALSO would include "Barnyard, although one could argue it was still the fade at this point), so BR replaces Shape.  He also recorded "Bag of Tricks" which is an "intro" style piece, again for Heroes - doubt it AND "chimes intro" would be included, so it replaces the chimes intro.  He also records in January "tag to Part 1" so if he was thinking about a two sided single, it would replace Barnyard as the tag.  I find it hard to fit in after the verse (Part 1 of the song) but I guess it's possible.

3.  What's the structure of CD4/track 24?

4. The SECTION "cantina" is Part 2 of the A sided single.  Brian uses "Part" to designate sections within songs AS WELL as, with Heroes and Villains at some point, "Part 2" as "side two" of the two sided single.  the entire version of Heroes including cantina is "Part 1" of the two sided single.

These are my theories about the evolution of the song based on the evidence of the session tapes and the sessionography.   They aren't meant to be presented as fact, so I'd love to hear counterarguments or theories based on tape evidence.


The May take - yep sorry missed your comment

Re your version two including Chimes/Intro/BAg of Tricks/Organ Waltz - will have an investigate

The structure of CD4 version from Jan/Feb 67 is as follows

1. Normal first verse although the lead vocal sounds quite laid back ( more than normal

2. Whistle/Dum Dum section

3. My Children were raised accapella with Often wise/piano section

4. Wordless vocal verse

5. In the Cantina

6. How I love my girl (Gee)

7. Dit Dit accapella H&V with handclaps and the one/two note bass line

8. HEroes & Villains accapella - with the clip clop thing

9 False BArnyard with hum dum vocals

I think thats it

I wasn't under the impression that this was a vintage Brian mix - there's nothing in the box set liner notes about it that I can find, so do we have any idea what this mix is?
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