The Smiley Smile Message Board

Based on the new box set and the reviews, I think we have a better idea of what Brian was thinking with the song Heroes and Villains.

First version:
Heroes verses/Great Shape/Barnyard - this is the demo version from Nov 4.  "We're still working."  An early pre Van Dyke version may have had My Only Sunshine as part of the song (May) but this is version was erased.

Late Nov/early Dec:
Heroes/Great Shape/"chimes" intro/Barnyard - chimes intro is slated as "Heroes Part 3."  In addition there's a report that the "sunny down snuff" section was attempted but not recorded in December, this would presumably have been between the chimes intro and Barnyard.

If this is well after the track list, then Great Shape/Barnyard have moved into their own track, and we move on to:

January:
Heroes/Bicycle Rider/Bag of Tricks/3rd verse/part 1 tag

Bag of Tricks replaces chimes intro.  "Bridge to Indians" is a transition piece to Bicycle Rider, "pick up to 3rd verse precedes the 3rd verse ("3 score and 5"), and by this point the a capella verse is probably somewhere in there,  probably after Bicycle Rider.  Not sure where or if the version of Do a Lot here would fit somewhere.

February:
Cantina version - cantina replaces BR, tag is now false Barnyard, Bag of Tricks/intro is gone, my children were raised is added .

With Part 1 completed, end of February/March 1 & 2 are devoted to Part 2 except for the bizarre attempt to rerecord the verse tracking.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the "chimes" intro?

Same bassline/structure as the "Intro to Heroes" that David Leaf attached permanently to the beginning of the Fire track, but instead of the whistles and organ there's a chiming bell.  Dated to December by TSS.

As a side note, I've noticed that there are a lot of instrumental pieces to Heroes and other tracks of Smile that would almost certainly have had vocals on them if they had been finished - we all know that Dom at one point said Brian wanted all these instrumental sections as is (part of his theory that the album was finished), but that's obviously out of the box.  Take the chimes intro/Bag of Tricks/intro to Heroes.  These pieces were far more likely to have the Fall Breaks kind of vocals over them than Fire - in fact, Bag of Tricks has the same bass lines as Fall Breaks.  It was very rare for Brian to record an all instrumental middle 8 or break, unless the whole track was to stay an instrumental of course.  Prelude to Fade (Western theme) was to have lyrics as Brian says during the session.  tag to Part 1 no doubt would have had vocals.  The break in Child which was left without vocals on BWPS no doubt would have had something on top of it besides the strings.

The only all instrumental break I can think of right now prior to Smile was Here Today - not counting a two or four bar instrumental leading into a vocal sesion (like God Only Knows).  And not counting the early surf stuff that would have a lead guitar break by Carl as a middle 8.

So how about the brawl in the bar?  Truth or myth?

And what's the likelihood that a mix of the version incorporating Banyard and Great Shape existed?

Great idea - need to put my brain in gear for this though - later  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I never could figure out how Brian didn't realize how fantastic the version with duet vocal with Mike followed by the barbershop over the backing track was.  It is simply amazing and would have been a smash follow-up to GV. 
There is a mix on Youtube under the monitor of Brian Wilson/Mike Love that  is really something.

 :afro

I was thinking it might be the track titled "Verse Edit Experiment" on CD2 - I certainly hope so, I agree that it's a damn cool edit.

I read "Verse Edit Experiment" as that thing where it's the verse ending abruptly and going directly into 'Bridge To Indians'.

Yep, and that's a Brian/Mike shared lead edit as well.  It's on Heroes Sessions Volume II, and it comes in at about 45 seconds, so it may well be the same track from the box.  It's an interesting edit, presumably done to link the verse to Bicycle Rider while at the same time keeping the exciting feel of the Cantina version.

I'm absolutely with you on that, Michael. The mono mix where the accapella vocals are heard after 'three score and five', but with the drums and bass *unmuted* and playing on through that section... it's just terrific.

Poor old Brian. He just had too *many* good ideas, and couldn't see the wood for the trees...

MattB

always thought and read about H&V first sessions dating from august 66 (hapsichord lines....)!

I really wish we could hear the first Heroes session, might Brian have done a complete backing track of the song then?

This is an opinion, of course. Personally, I don't enjoy much the way they both sing there. In addition to that, the vocal splits in the middle of sentences distract me. My favorite vocal is the one on the Cantina mix, it has more "edge" than the sweeter sung released version. My dream version would be if Mike had sung the whole verses with the edge Brian had on the Cantina mix. The halves Mike does on the split version aren't as good as he could have been.

I'm not putting your opinion down though, of course, it's as valid as mine.

Is that not track 3 on CD2 of the box set?????

No, the first session was in May, apparently before he presented the song to Van Dyke.  It was still called Heroes and Villains though (which means that was Brian's title).  The tape was erased/dubbed over, so it's gone forever.

Thanks BR - what a shame so much is lost - always wondered what it sounded like

Well, I'm looking for investors for my time machine.

1.21 GIGAWATTS!!!!!!

Hey Bicyclerider, have you (or a anybody else) tried a to make a mix of the "Heroes"/"Great Shape"/Chimes/"Barnyard" idea? I tried, but wasn't too happy with my attempt. Hopefully somebody can pull it off decently.

Also, I gotta say my only major disappointment with the box is that they didn't find/try a mix of "Heroes And Villains" than shoehorned both "I'm In Great Shape" and "Barnyard" in. I'd say there is enough "historical evidence" to give it some weight, and even if they wanted to stay away from labeling it as a true attempt at another version, they could call it a "sections" piece like the "Heroes" sections tracks on discs 1 and 4.

It's hard for me to imagine "Chimes" fitting anywhere - not the beginning of the song, and certainly not right in the middle.  Probably the second most confounding "Heroes" section, aside from the February re-record of the fade with Carl singing live with the band.

1.According to many the first H&V was in May and it included a version of YAMS - whether IIGS and BY were included then as well is unknown - the tape was lost or taped over apparently

2. Sorry but what are the references for your versions up to the February Cantina version - IMHO the only place for chimes/bag of tricks/etc is as an INtro as per Track 6 CD 2 on TSS

3. We also now have TSS CD 4 Track 24 from Jan/Feb 67 - presumably the version before the Cantina version was finalised

4. The Cantina is obviously H&V Part One

5. Then we get the Smiley Version

6. Then BWPS

7. Finally TSS - CD1

After December '66 the only two songs the group did vocals for were "Heroes & Villains" and "Vega-Tables"--both of which were reported to become the group's next single. Have often wondered if the group tended to cooperate more in the studio with the pressure to get the next single done.

At the beginning of the Humble Harv Brian is talking about repetition & things being around for a long time & becoming visual. The "Heroes & Villains" "Sections", "Part 2", and the like are perhaps an attempt to achieve this effect via repetition. These little bits & pieces did not included few VDP lyrics.

One may wonder if Brian didn't change plans along the way to achieve the same end result. The Jules Siegel article even has Brian questioning the effectiveness of the lyrics in December right before the bits & repetitive pieces took precedence.

Trying a new way to achieve the same end result may be why there is more than an album's worth of material for SMiLE.

1.  Yeah, I said that - read my post
2.  Reference for version one - the Humble Harv demo - it's on TSS and on Endless Harmony. 

Reference for version two - with chimes included - is the session track for the chimes "intro" (I call it that because historically it's been assumed it's a different version of "intro to H & V" from March 67 - which it is, BUT) which is slated ON the session tape as "Heroes Part 3."  If on the demo the verse is part one and great shape is part two, which it clearly is on the demo, then the "chimes intro" would come next. 

Reference for the January version - the "Bicycle Rider" vocals and fuzz bass overdub are recorded Jan 5 logged as a Heroes session.  since the December track list included "Great Shape" (which presumably ALSO would include "Barnyard, although one could argue it was still the fade at this point), so BR replaces Shape.  He also recorded "Bag of Tricks" which is an "intro" style piece, again for Heroes - doubt it AND "chimes intro" would be included, so it replaces the chimes intro.  He also records in January "tag to Part 1" so if he was thinking about a two sided single, it would replace Barnyard as the tag.  I find it hard to fit in after the verse (Part 1 of the song) but I guess it's possible.

3.  What's the structure of CD4/track 24?

4. The SECTION "cantina" is Part 2 of the A sided single.  Brian uses "Part" to designate sections within songs AS WELL as, with Heroes and Villains at some point, "Part 2" as "side two" of the two sided single.  the entire version of Heroes including cantina is "Part 1" of the two sided single.

These are my theories about the evolution of the song based on the evidence of the session tapes and the sessionography.   They aren't meant to be presented as fact, so I'd love to hear counterarguments or theories based on tape evidence.

The May take - yep sorry missed your comment

Re your version two including Chimes/Intro/BAg of Tricks/Organ Waltz - will have an investigate

The structure of CD4 version from Jan/Feb 67 is as follows

1. Normal first verse although the lead vocal sounds quite laid back ( more than normal

2. Whistle/Dum Dum section

3. My Children were raised accapella with Often wise/piano section

4. Wordless vocal verse

5. In the Cantina

6. How I love my girl (Gee)

7. Dit Dit accapella H&V with handclaps and the one/two note bass line

8. HEroes & Villains accapella - with the clip clop thing

9 False BArnyard with hum dum vocals

I think thats it

I wasn't under the impression that this was a vintage Brian mix - there's nothing in the box set liner notes about it that I can find, so do we have any idea what this mix is?

What's with having Bag of Tricks in the middle of the song?

Where else would it (or chimes intro) go in an A side only version of the song?  I'm sure it would have vocals over it of some kind (fall breaks vocals anyone?)
as I've mentioned before.

A lot of this stuff doesn't seem to follow Brian's own nomenclature. Prelude to Fade for example, shouldn't that come before the fade? Bridge to Indians, well should be a bridge to Indians (BR?)

The "early outtake sections" could be significant, but what is it? Was it simply found on a reel that way? Was this an attempt by Brian to put together a complete version of the song? Lets see if we can't figure out a structure here:

Part One:
- Verse
...
- Tag to Part One.

Part Two:
- Gee?
...
- Prelude to Fade
- Fade

The thing that amazed me most with hearing the song come together on the box was how it was barely a song at first--just variations on melodic ideas.  I also thought it was interesting that "Do A Lot" appears there a few months before it pops up in "Vega-Tables."  He was kind of feeling his way around that childhood theme, again, which appears so often in all his music.

My understanding is early outtakes are Brian mono mixes of sections of the songs - test edits and test mixes if you will. 

Part Two is clearly

Intro (March 1-2 version)
Gee
"Sections" - the dit dit dits, Swedish frog, slow dit dit dit - but there is that Brian mix wihere Swedish frog is cut out)
Prelude to Fade
Fade (presumably Fade rerecord)

Part 1 is cantina, right?  Tag to Part 1 was recorded in January, presumably when he was first  thinking about a Part 2 for the B side - but then he didn't use it for the cantina version in February, so I assume it would not have made the cut.  Likewise Bicyce Rider which was cut in January.  That leaves the "chorus" - what eventually became the chorus backing track - and the solo piano Bicyclerider theme.  Unclear where and if they fit anywhere.

The January BR was always for the H&V Part 2 master wasn't it?

Does the sessionography show Gee and Swedish Frog were recorded for the H&V Part 2 B side master or are they labeled as a part 2 for the H&V A side master?

Swedish Frog sounds so good under the Cantina section, I wish it was put there...makes it really tripped out.

I don't know if anyone else has ever thought this before, but is it possible that Great Shape was originally to be the section of H&V eventually supplanted with the cantina section? To me at least the bits even sound similar for the first couple notes, and a rough replacement doesn't sound too jarring, though the cantina section does sound better that might just be because I'm used to it. I've always thought that Great Shape was too short to be anything but a section, in any event...

I find it interesting that there are descending strings on the ending of the newly found version of prelude to "fade". The "fade" at that point was the one lifted from OMP, and OMP has descending strings just before the fade too. I assume that Brian went back to that idea in recording the prelude and scrapped OMP for good at that point.

Agree with the above two posts.
I think that after the rough sessions in November, Brian wanted to just finish the single. Everything else was put on hold. He probably wanted to release a single to test the waters, if it did well then he could have used it as a proof of concept, and gotten the rest of the band to cooperate more easily. So the single became the make or break thing. Then litigation with Capitol started, and maybe he used that as an excuse to buy himself more time.

Early Outtake Sections structure from CD 4

The structure of CD4 version from Jan/Feb 67 is as follows

1. Normal first verse although the lead vocal sounds quite laid back ( more than normal

2. Whistle/Dum Dum section

3. My Children were raised accapella with Often wise/piano section

4. Wordless vocal verse

5. In the Cantina

6. How I love my girl (Gee)

7. Dit Dit accapella H&V with handclaps and the one/two note bass line

8. HEroes & Villains accapella - with the clip clop thing

9 False Barnyard with hum dum vocals

I think thats it

Fascinating discussion...! Coupla points I wanted to make:

1) I like the idea of trying to figure out the various evolving structures of H&V over time, but as the track kept shifiting throughout the timespan of the sessions from May 1966 to June 1967, I think it's going to be fantastically hard to do so with any kind of certainty. Not that this should prevent an attempt to do so, but we should be mindful of just how uncertain Brian was about things, and how in flux the arrangement was. By way of example:

All we know about the (pre-Van Dyke?) May 11 Heroes and Villains, now taped over, is that it had some kind of You Are My Sunshine feel to it, thanks to Al Kooper.

By November 66, Brian is still recording H&V bits and also You Are My Sunshine parts, now as separate tracks.

Come February 1967, he steals the end section of what was recorded as You Are My Sunshine and puts it into Heroes And Villlains again, where it becomes the False Barnyard we all know and love in the Cantina version, or H&V Part 1. But this version never gets released, and when the 45 finally comes out, the 'Sunshine'-derived False Barnyard fade is gone again.

In other words, something was in Heroes and Villains in some way, left it, was made its own track, then went back into H&V again, and finally, by the time the 45 version was recorded, was dropped again. Stuff is in, it's out, it's in again, it's dropped. Can we ever be certain about anything when there's this much movement over time?

2) Following on from point one: relying on Brian's description of sections as 'Part 1' 'Part 2' 'Part 3' etc, whether from spoken 'slates' on tape or from tape box notations is simultaneously good - these are among the only concrete pieces of evidence we have - and yet also unwise, because they only refer to 'Part 2' (or whatever number) of what the particular configuration of H&V was in Brian's head AT THAT TIME. Famously, there are many, many sections, all completely different, that Brian slates as 'Heroes and Villains Part 2'. In fact, it's only with the release of the new box that we see just how many of the damn things there were. Clearly, at various different times, all of these were going to be part 2. And then they weren't any more.

As a result, isn't it unwise to say, for example, 'the chimes intro thing from December is slated as Part 3, therefore in December 1966 the track must have been Verse, I'm In Great Shape, Chimes Intro, Barnyard'? *

In Early November 66, sure, Brian demoed H&V for Humble Harve and the track went Verses, IIGS, Barnyard. And in a contemporary article from round about then, a musical section that is clearly Barnyard is described as the fade. But it's a massive leap to assume that the demo structure was kept the same all the way into December, and up to the cutting of the Chimes Intro. By then Part 2 could have been something totally other than IIGS. And Barnyard might no longer have been the fade.

I can see why Verse could be Part 1 - that seems to have stayed pretty much consistent throughout the versions that have come down to us** - and IIGS, going by the November demo version to Humble Harve, could have been part 2 THEN. But by December, several weeks later, and the recording of Chimes Intro, we surely can't assume that Part 2 was still the SAME part 2. Come January 1967, all sorts of bits start to be described as 'Part 2', and even 'Part 2 revised version'. What else was recorded in December 1966? The piano and Rhodes versions of 'Da da'. And in the early days of the new year, an effort was made to record THOSE at an H&V session, logged as All Day. THEY could have been part 2 in December for all we know, although I admit no evidence supports that.

I appreciate that I'm introducing yet more uncertainty and confusion into your admirable efforts to make sense of all this, which is not helping! But I think it could be a mistake to assume that a December version of H&V would have necessarily placed the 'Part 3' section recorded that month (Chimes Intro) after the section described in early November as 'Part 2' (that is, IIGS). Especially given that there was this degree of movement of pieces in and out of the song, and even back in again in some cases, over such short spaces of time.

MattB

* What you actually said was 'If on the demo the verse is part one and great shape is part two, which it clearly is on the demo, then the "chimes intro" would come next.' but I paraphrase...

** the titling of H&V Intro in March 1967 suggests that even the position of the VERSE at the start of the song was temporarily in question by the Spring! Although that idea was dropped again by the time the 45 version was finalised...

Just to add to the confusion, I don't think we can really rely on the Humble Harv demo as giving a reliable order to H&V at that point - doesn't Brian just say "Here's another section" - that doesn't mean that the structure at that time was verse/IIGS/BArnyard at all, just that there were several sections

Another really good point, Desmondo!

I agree, the placement of Barnyard is the most shaky of those assumptions from the demo, certainly, as Brian just says 'Here's another section...' which could have been anywhere at the time!

With IIGS, he kind of goes straight into it after the fluttertone on the demo, so maybe it *was* supposed to be next at that point... but really, who knows?

We don't, as I may possibly have said before ( ;) ), really know anything about anything. STILL we don't, after all these years...!

MattB

Oh yes, and regarding the Disc 4 Early Version Out-takes Mix, I believe from what's being said elsewhere that these are indeed a load of sections mixed to mono by Brian back in the day (possibly for use on the Feb 67 'Cantina' mix)... but they've been edited together in the order they're in for THIS release.

In other words, the internal structure and mix of the pieces was Brian's decision from 1967, but the order in which the parts are edited together is a 2011 decision.

I *think*.

...jeez, this stuff gets MORE confusing, not less!

MattB

This is a fascinating thread. Between this and the ghost vocals thread it's great to see Smile discussion alive and well at SS.net!

I'm interested in the version that might have contained Prelude to Fade in 67. I always assumed this was to be incorporated into the side A version, and not Part 2. Is this correct as far as we know?

Also, judging by the dates, Brian created the cantina mix on the 10th February, and then on the 15th was back in the studio recording Prelude and the piano theme.

It seems a no brainer that Prelude was to precede the False Barnyard fade at this point.

But where was the 15th Feb recording of Piano Theme to go?

It actually ends on a note that would move perfectly into Western Theme. As it contains a strong ascending then descending piano riff in its second half, this also sets up western Theme nicely with the ascending notes that build up to the Flutter tone (which then has the descending strings) creating a nice repetition.

So what I'm, wondering is if by the 10th Feb 67, Brian's plan for the A Side was essentially:

Cantina Mix (up to dum dum tape explosion) + piano Theme + Western Theme + False Barnyard fade.

I haven't tried to edit the parts together yet but I'm pretty sure it would make for a well paced sequence.

Not sure about that Matt - I understood it was a genuine BW 67 mix found on a reel

I think Matt's correct. Alan Boyd said at some point that those were original Brian mixes that had been put together for this release. I think the Mike/Brian trade off verse vocals + Dum Dum + three score & five up to the small fade is one vintage edit ( although the fade is a 2011 decision). Then cantina + woo woos is another Brian edit (presumably informing the decision to have the woos in the disc 1 version of H&V). Then it's the vintage edit of Gee up to (but not including) false barnyard, with Swedish frog noticeably spliced out. Finally False Barnyard has been added in 2011 just to make it feel like a complete track. That's my take on it.

So the version Brian did was for a single track release.

Also, what's with the fade? So it was originally recorded at the same session as OMP, as the "big finale". Then in '67 Brian rerecorded it with the bird whistles. And then he used the original version anyway for the Cantina version.

Guys - I have done a side by side comparison which may aid discussion - please let me know of any corrections you may have

http://www.zshare.net/download/958293912732c065/

Sorry could upload it direct - if you can please feel free

As I see it he recorded the fade for OMP in November, decided to nab it for the cantina edit (recording extra vocal overdubs for it) on the 10th feb 67, and then probably decides on a different structure after that, which requires a new fade that he records on the 28th Feb. It might be that he plans to keep the False Barnyard fade for the A Side, and needs a fade for the B Side, so just records a slight variation on it, although you have to wonder why he didn't just use an exiting fade, such as Barnyard or Tag To Part 1. The rerecord is a lot of effort to go to, which suggests to me that:

a) That False Barnyard fade is being used elsewhere (most likely the A Side), it's not just that he doesn't like it anymore.
b) That he might be saving Barnyard for something else, as it would work perfectly well as a Part 2 fade imo, which in turn suggests he hasn't given up on the Smile album yet in February.

I also wonder if the Part 2 session (track 21 disc 2) is also the B side counterpart to the A Side Western theme, so Brian is sort of quickly creating variations on some of the side A pieces to quickly put the side B side version together, rather than writing a fully formed song from scratch. Most of the part 2 sections (all the dit dit dits and dum dum dums) are kind of variations on existing pieces so it would make sense that he employ the same strategy throughout to flesh out the B Side of Heroes. Of course, no hard evidence for these things but it's fun to speculate!


That's great - thanks, Desmondo!

What about the acetates? We have H&V verse acetate and as it ends we hear a sloppy edit into Bicycle Rider theme briefly before it fades out.

On Bicycle Rider acetate, we hear a sloppy edit into the H&V verse just as it fades out.

Did the H&V verse/Bicycle Rider chorus format, as was essentially done on the finished H&V single, precede the cantina version, then get replaced, and then Brian went back to it? Or are those acetates from after the cantina version?

And what about the remakes? He starts recutting the verse and the fade...what would that H&V have looked like?

What does it all mean!??!?  :-[

I don't know but it seems that unlike GV he seems to not have found a definite structure for H&V for a long long time.

And about the various parts -  it gets so confusing because "part 2" can mean "section 2 of part one (A side of the single)" or just "part two (B side of the single)". So if BR is called out to be "part 2" it could either follow the verses on the A side or be part of the B side.

I listen to that "Verse Edit Experiment" on CD2 and I think to myself "my god did he obsess on stupid details", but it's a double edged sword because sometimes the small details make the difference and sometimes they don't matter at all.

The reality is we still haven't gotten the definitive Heroes and Villians in my opinion.

To do so, we need to use the original, the cantina mix, the brian amd mike duet version and finally the Smile Sessions version.

It's there and its something to behold.

He hadn't rerecorded the fade at the time of putting together the cantina version.

On Barnyard - it was recorded with the verses at the first (well second, the first was wiped) Heroes session.  From what we hear, it was recorded as a fade - there's no "ending" that would make a transition to another section.  But is that because the piece is faded out before we hear the cold ending?  I notice we don't have sessions for this piece, just the final product (minus the backing vocals but including the animal sounds which I assume are Mike Vosse and Van Dyke and Brian).

Why does Brian say "here's another section" instead of "and it ends like this?"  If he knew it was the fade, why not say that's the end of the song?  "We're still working."  Is this why Brian found it so difficult to finish Smile - he'd record something as the tag or fade, then change his mind a week or two later - but now is unable to use that piece because he didn't record it with a cold ending?

I firmly believe with no actual evidence that since Barnyard was taken out of Heroes at the same time as Great Shape and the two were planned to go together in the new listed track "I'm in Great Shape."  Shape by itself is not enough to make a track, and since Barnyard was removed and false Barnyard used in it's place, where else would it go?

On Bicyclerider - I believe (as does Alan as I recall) that Bicyclerider was taken from Worms to use in Heroes "Part 1" (the A side).  The fact you can hear on the tapes it segues into the Heroes verse would certainly support that.  We don't know if it would have been a single section or used as a chorus since we have no Brian edits of the song with BR in it - but it's certainly an attractive supposition since he rerecorded BR in a minor key and did exactly that in the single version.  But BR was in January and then didn't make the cut for the cantina version in February.

After cantina I'm not convinced he worked on the "Part 1" or A side of the single until the Smiley sessions in May/June.  It seems to me most or all of the February/March sessions after Feb 10th were for "Part 2" or the B side.  Except for the bizarre rerecording of the verse track - don't know what to make of that.  I'm not sure the session sheets are the best guide to what was recorded for what - these were often submitted after the fact and may not be entirely accurate.  Better sources would be the session slates and tapebox documentation, which would have been done at the session and more closely reflect what Brian was thinking at the time.

I agree that Barnyard had to be the original fade for the early version of H&V.

Bicylerider - what do you make of the fade re-record? In my mind this is rerecorded not to replace false Barnyard as the Heroes Fade, but as a counterpart fade for the b side 'Part 2' version, much as Alan and Mark have used it on the Part 2 mix in the new set.

I disagree. He re-recorded the intro, verse, and fade all within a span of a few days. I think he was starting over from scratch.

There's the story about Brian playing H&V to a passer-by on the street who didn't like it and then starting from scratch. If that is not a myth, it could have happened at that time. Well, Brian obviously did start from scratch rerecording verse and outro, but didn't take it that far.

Yeah but this was all only a week or so after he recorded Gee and other sections arguably designed for Part 2. Intro has to be for Part 2. I can't imagine Brian recording that for the A Side of the single. Pushing the envelope was one thing but that would have been suicidal! I don't know what to make for the verse remake.

However it does raise the question: If Intro was to start Part 2, where was Gee to go? Maybe Part 2 started with Intro, followed by Gee, as Bicycle Rider earlier suggested.

I agree Lou. Paperwork isn't 100% but slates and call outs aren't 100% reliable either. H&V A side can have a Part 2 or 3, 4 which wouldn't have anything to do with the H&V Part 2 B side but the distinction for which master wouldn't necessarily be noted on the call outs.

The master was important, it is even the specific stated product the Boys are required to deliver in their contract as I remember it. So many masters in each consecutive year. So I believe the master is important and is the key. The masters were discreet things on singles and albums as I understand it, right? The session records are the only thing which tracks the seemingly all important masters [unless the tapebox is noted I guess]. I still think the best we are going to do is identify what call outs/recordings belong to what master number on what dates on the only master session paperwork. It will still not be 100% but it will be the best info available imo.

I was hoping an acetate or tape of the March H&V/H&V Part 2 would be located for the box. I take it one wasn't?