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Author Topic: The "Leila Revelation"  (Read 82927 times)
buddhahat
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« Reply #200 on: October 06, 2011, 07:41:46 AM »

Prior to their bust, Vigotone was working on a Smile Box.  Supposedly and I stress supposedly the Jungle music tape would have been on it.

A little story.  Rumour has it that all the vigotone tapes/cds that were confiscated by the FBI were put in a secure location for potention further reference.

The secure location?

The World Trade Center.

I heard a certain member of the British Royal family had been switched onto Smile by Beach Boys nut and MOD chief at the time, Geoff Hoon (for real, he was at the RFH shows). Strings were pulled, Hoon worked on his connections in the FBI and the aforementioned Vigotone tapes were copied prior to 9/11. Result, right?!

Wrong.

So this Royal gets hold of the tape copies and is blasting them out of her car on a regular basis according to those close to her: really wigging out on them, specifically this 'Jungle Music' that MJP references.

The last place she was known to be playing those tapes?

The Alma Tunnel, Paris.

That's right. It was no less than Princess Diana that had the only tape copy of 'Jungle Music'. Which would've been fine had the originals not ended up in The World Trade Centre.

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« Reply #201 on: October 06, 2011, 07:43:41 AM »

I recall well the fabled stories of headphone bleed, but if all the folks who've heard the box are to be believed, none of that has made it to the set. Look supposedly has just a couple of sparse vocals, and CIFOTM just an extra harmony or something, right? And I think those were the only two tracks where headphone bleed was mentioned...

Possibly.  I mean, probably--that's what I'm prepared for.  But who knows--maybe there's something in with the sessions disks.  Either way, I need something to obsess over until I can listen, right?
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« Reply #202 on: October 06, 2011, 07:45:25 AM »

Prior to their bust, Vigotone was working on a Smile Box.  Supposedly and I stress supposedly the Jungle music tape would have been on it.

A little story.  Rumour has it that all the vigotone tapes/cds that were confiscated by the FBI were put in a secure location for potention further reference.

The secure location?

The World Trade Center.

Is this one of those urban myths? Like,m the Loch Ness Monster and Sasquatch were having a SMILE listening party on the top floor with Elvis and Jim Morrison when the planes hit?

A pal of mine died in that atrocity – I sure others here lost folk they knew – and it's something I hate to see crazy stories become attached to without any source/verification/validity.
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« Reply #203 on: October 06, 2011, 07:47:33 AM »

I recall well the fabled stories of headphone bleed, but if all the folks who've heard the box are to be believed, none of that has made it to the set. Look supposedly has just a couple of sparse vocals, and CIFOTM just an extra harmony or something, right? And I think those were the only two tracks where headphone bleed was mentioned...

That's still a pretty significant gain, depending on one's perspective. It's going to be great having it in a proper pop-song structure in great sound with a few tasty bits flown in. I'm reeeeeally looking forward to this track. I remember being massively excited when AB's research uncovered the Wilson mix dating from 12 October 1966, which lived on an 18 December 1966 compilation reel. CIFOTM as a three minute pop song. All of a sudden, it was no longer this odd, fragmentary, poor quality orphan, but a proper pop-kid, healthy wealthy and wise!

ML's comments in the SoS interview that these instances of headphone bleed and other artefacts were all over the Smile Sessions, but CIFOTM was the only one I've heard confirmed, and that was by Darian, not ML (Darian approved the paraphrases & quotes I used for the final article).

Is Look mentioned somewhere? Not doubting it, but what was the source for that?



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« Reply #204 on: October 06, 2011, 07:47:46 AM »

I'm no expert, but I wanted to chime in on a few possibilities. Challenges/debates are more than welcome! Smiley

First, a friend of a friend has a job at the National Archives/Library Of Congress/etc. involving cataloging and restoring/transferring "lost" audio and audio from the vaults. The friend told me this man has heard and worked with archival material from very well-known artists from the jazz and pop world involving concerts, broadcasts, and even studio outtakes apparently, and basically material which most of the general public has never heard and probably never knew existed or survived. There are active searches going on around the world for this kind of material in order to archive it before the media deteriorates to the point where it is lost forever, and that is the fate which has come to many radio broadcasts which were cut to metal discs, and the "grooves" simply peel off the disc like old paint.

Two points: First, many of those searches are government-funded or funded by various trusts and endowments. That solves the point Matt B. made about the time and financial burden on someone searching coast to coast for a piece of audio tape. In short, it's just not practical unless it's your paid job to do so...for most people.

Second: There was just a very well publicized "bust" of a supposedly trusted long-time employee working in the National Archives. This man who had worked there over 30 years had been stealing various audio recordings from his work...to the tune of over 6,000 audio recordings through the years. 6,000!!! They raided his home and carried box after box of recordings from his pad, and the funny part of it is that he got "busted" trying to sell a recording of Babe Ruth for 30 dollars on Ebay, an insignificant sum of money for what could have been a one-of-a-kind piece to baseball fans, or whoever.

The point is: Where was that man's sense of the "bigger picture"? We're talking here about Inside Pop reels, hoping whoever is holding them will have a moment of enlightenment and his sense of doing the right thing for the fans will kick in and he/she will release the tapes before they are lost to time or deterioration? In comparison, there was a man at the Archives who came into work every day, said Hi, how are the kids? to his co-workers and was probably what we'd call a "good guy" on the surface, yet he was stealing thousands of irreplaceable tapes and recordings to sell for piss-poor low amounts on Ebay? It's a sad commentary on the fact that human nature is human nature - and there are people who just don't get it.
Here is the link to the whole story for anyone interested: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/10/ex-archives-worker-sold-recordings-on-ebay/

By the same token, with all of those recordings being kept "safe", when will the general public be able to hear any of that on request? If the American government is paying in part for the process to archive and restore the recordings, can we request something to hear them? Interesting point to raise.

Where does this play into the Beach Boys, and "lost" Smile material and recordings that exist but not in official hands? It's up to the people holding that material what they wish to do with it. It is a shame to have tapes deteriorate in someone's private collection rather than be archived, transferred, and handled properly, but the equal shame is when it is archived properly and a dishonest employee tries to sell that recording on Ebay for lunch money.

Tough call. I hope to see Inside Pop outtakes before my time is up, that's all I can say. Smiley
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« Reply #205 on: October 06, 2011, 07:55:03 AM »

If you check the various posts on this site, you will note I'm not the only one to hear "Jungle Music".

LIsten stuff is out there.

That said, I miss the days of going into a record store and finding a new fantastic bootleg.  Still remember the day I bought my first Smile bootleg album along with Landlocked.  Right up there with buying a used copy of Let it Be with the book for six dollars.
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« Reply #206 on: October 06, 2011, 08:00:11 AM »

Just to chime in quickly - years ago there was a VERY active attempt to get the Inside Pop reels by people on this board (or, perhaps it was the old Smile shop board). I think the common consensus was that they were pretty much forever lost but I'm sure those who were more active in the historic dig can confirm exactly what the results were.
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« Reply #207 on: October 06, 2011, 08:00:45 AM »

If you check the various posts on this site, you will note I'm not the only one to hear "Jungle Music".

LIsten stuff is out there.

That said, I miss the days of going into a record store and finding a new fantastic bootleg.  Still remember the day I bought my first Smile bootleg album along with Landlocked.  Right up there with buying a used copy of Let it Be with the book for six dollars.
I had a flash of those days when i found a great mono copy of Today! for two dollars in my vinyl store's junk bin recently.
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« Reply #208 on: October 06, 2011, 08:07:40 AM »

ML's comments in the SoS interview that these instances of headphone bleed and other artefacts were all over the Smile Sessions, but CIFOTM was the only one I've heard confirmed, and that was by Darian, not ML (Darian approved the paraphrases & quotes I used for the final article).

Is Look mentioned somewhere? Not doubting it, but what was the source for that?

Darian and ML mentioned CIFOTM headphone bleed in the SOS article, if memory serves. And I can't remember where on Earth I read or heard this now, but I'm sure Darian said at some point that the prominent clarinets in the BWPS version of Song For Children came from deleted instruments heard via headphone bleed on the original 'Look' masters, too. I'm sure I'm not making this stuff up, but I couldn't tell you where that fact came from now if my life depended on it. Anyone else able to back me up, here?
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« Reply #209 on: October 06, 2011, 08:10:44 AM »

I'm sure Darian said at some point that the prominent clarinets in the BWPS version of Song For Children came from deleted instruments heard via headphone bleed on the original 'Look' masters, too. I'm sure I'm not making this stuff up, but I couldn't tell you where that fact came from now if my life depended on it. Anyone else able to back me up, here?

Absolutely - again, I can't source it but it came up countless times on message boards like these.
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« Reply #210 on: October 06, 2011, 08:15:27 AM »

If you check the various posts on this site, you will note I'm not the only one to hear "Jungle Music".

Just looked back -  only claim I can find is a guy called "MichaelPapelian" made such a claim in this thread: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6824
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« Reply #211 on: October 06, 2011, 08:16:49 AM »

If you check the various posts on this site, you will note I'm not the only one to hear "Jungle Music".


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« Reply #212 on: October 06, 2011, 08:21:00 AM »

If you check the various posts on this site, you will note I'm not the only one to hear "Jungle Music".

Just looked back -  only claim I can find is a guy called "MichaelPapelian" made such a claim in this thread: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6824

 LOL LOL LOL
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« Reply #213 on: October 06, 2011, 08:32:37 AM »

I guess now we can get back to talking about music that actually exists, like Child or Look?
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« Reply #214 on: October 06, 2011, 08:40:58 AM »

Quote
By the same token, with all of those recordings being kept "safe", when will the general public be able to hear any of that on request? If the American government is paying in part for the process to archive and restore the recordings, can we request something to hear them? Interesting point to raise.

All records in the National Archives are available to the public, for free.

Quote
Anyone can use the National Archives. You do not need to be an American citizen or to present credentials or a letter of recommendation.
http://www.archives.gov/research/start/plan-visit.html

Many records are also available online, here: http://aad.archives.gov/aad/. They don't seem to include sound recordings yet, though.
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« Reply #215 on: October 06, 2011, 09:11:32 AM »

Prior to their bust, Vigotone was working on a Smile Box.  Supposedly and I stress supposedly the Jungle music tape would have been on it.

A little story.  Rumour has it that all the vigotone tapes/cds that were confiscated by the FBI were put in a secure location for potention further reference.

The secure location?

The World Trade Center.

Little stories aside, I'd assume that once Mr Mouledoux was thrown inside, the tapes would be returned do their rightful owner – Capitol?
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« Reply #216 on: October 06, 2011, 09:31:36 AM »

Quote
By the same token, with all of those recordings being kept "safe", when will the general public be able to hear any of that on request? If the American government is paying in part for the process to archive and restore the recordings, can we request something to hear them? Interesting point to raise.

All records in the National Archives are available to the public, for free.

Quote
Anyone can use the National Archives. You do not need to be an American citizen or to present credentials or a letter of recommendation.
http://www.archives.gov/research/start/plan-visit.html

Many records are also available online, here: http://aad.archives.gov/aad/. They don't seem to include sound recordings yet, though.

The sound recordings were what I was focusing on, and short of a collection of old opera recordings on vinyl and the like, I don't believe you can walk in and request *fill in the artist* recording take 2 of *fill in the song* or even a vintage radio broadcast in the collection at this time. And apparently the collection is beyond what many might think would exist in such a collection. Which is a great thing - if we can hear some of the one-of-a-kind stuff and not just the usual.
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« Reply #217 on: October 06, 2011, 09:49:37 AM »

I'm afraid that the last-ditch, one-in-a-million longshot hope for any developments on "Child" would be discovery of the "Inside Pop" audio for Reel #75 which contained some sort of rendition of the song.  Of course, a one-in-ten-million would be discovery of an audio recording from the interview when Dennis did a piano demo of the song.

I know these reels have been discussed a lot, but why are they "unfindable" ? Lost ? Erased ? Copyrights ? I mean, Alan Boyd and Mark Linett maybe could've done some research this way ... I mean: they didn't ? they found nothing ? they found things but not the whole stuff ? they couldn't manage to clear the rights for use, etc, etc, etc ....

Is there an expert of the "Inside Pop" affair who could explain ? Thanks.

They did. The box set track listings are a primo indication of what was found.

The hunt for the Inside Pop reels hit a brick wall in a dead end a few years ago. We were lucky in that Oppenheim's own notes turned up.
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« Reply #218 on: October 06, 2011, 09:52:34 AM »

Jungle Music?  I only heard it once over the phone along with a snippet of the Brian/VDP composing tape for SOS.  It sounded exactly like jungle music.  Drums, strange sounds that I always felt would have somehow ended up in "The Elements".  A distant cousin of "Fire".

Someone played you something over the phone and told you it was a Smile outtake, is what you mean to say.  

Years ago I heard some unreleased Smile material via the phone that I have never heard again.

Specifically, what appeared to be a demo of "The Elements".  Or at least three parts of it.  I also heard what could be described as "Jungle Music" in The Elements vain.

I still think a chunk of the 66/67 Smile puzzle sits unsolved with the acetates/tapes in the possession of Durrie Parks.

Also, music that people on this board heard in the 80's (With me tonight, H&V sessions, etc.), has never been released.

I think the highlighted assumption has lately been disproven.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 09:58:20 AM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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« Reply #219 on: October 06, 2011, 11:15:12 AM »

Quote
By the same token, with all of those recordings being kept "safe", when will the general public be able to hear any of that on request? If the American government is paying in part for the process to archive and restore the recordings, can we request something to hear them? Interesting point to raise.

All records in the National Archives are available to the public, for free.

Quote
Anyone can use the National Archives. You do not need to be an American citizen or to present credentials or a letter of recommendation.
http://www.archives.gov/research/start/plan-visit.html

Many records are also available online, here: http://aad.archives.gov/aad/. They don't seem to include sound recordings yet, though.

The sound recordings were what I was focusing on, and short of a collection of old opera recordings on vinyl and the like, I don't believe you can walk in and request *fill in the artist* recording take 2 of *fill in the song* or even a vintage radio broadcast in the collection at this time. And apparently the collection is beyond what many might think would exist in such a collection. Which is a great thing - if we can hear some of the one-of-a-kind stuff and not just the usual.

I think now you can stream them on this - http://www.loc.gov/jukebox/
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« Reply #220 on: October 06, 2011, 11:28:50 AM »

Yup I guess that was indeed me who posted the Jungle Music info.  Could swear somebody else mentioned it.

You were right the guy who played it to me over the phone said it was a Smile outtake.  Maybe he was wrong.  Now he was indeed right about the Elements demo which was subsequently bootlegged.
Then again I was still in shock hearing the Sail on Sailor composing tape.

Durrie Parks.  She told me in an email that she had Smile acetates and tapes.  What a letdown to know it was all fruitless.
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« Reply #221 on: October 06, 2011, 11:39:23 AM »

I'm afraid that the last-ditch, one-in-a-million longshot hope for any developments on "Child" would be discovery of the "Inside Pop" audio for Reel #75 which contained some sort of rendition of the song.  Of course, a one-in-ten-million would be discovery of an audio recording from the interview when Dennis did a piano demo of the song.

I know these reels have been discussed a lot, but why are they "unfindable" ? Lost ? Erased ? Copyrights ? I mean, Alan Boyd and Mark Linett maybe could've done some research this way ... I mean: they didn't ? they found nothing ? they found things but not the whole stuff ? they couldn't manage to clear the rights for use, etc, etc, etc ....

Is there an expert of the "Inside Pop" affair who could explain ? Thanks.

They did. The box set track listings are a primo indication of what was found.

The hunt for the Inside Pop reels hit a brick wall in a dead end a few years ago. We were lucky in that Oppenheim's own notes turned up.

And that's probably key--a lot the desire fans express is really for them to find things that probably don't exist, so we should be happy with what we have.  The notes for Inside Pop are fun to read, but what else would they really have even if we found the footage (with sound)?  It was a documentary on pop, not just the Beach Boys.  The solution to Smile isn't going to be in some vocal session that wasn't good enough or some random fragment.  If anything, the more we hear, the less we know about the finished album.
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« Reply #222 on: October 06, 2011, 11:42:08 AM »

You were right the guy who played it to me over the phone said it was a Smile outtake.  Maybe he was wrong.  Now he was indeed right about the Elements demo which was subsequently bootlegged.

Huh ?  Never heard this, or indeed heard of it.  Care to Point Me in the right direction ?
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« Reply #223 on: October 06, 2011, 11:49:13 AM »

Yup I guess that was indeed me who posted the Jungle Music info.  Could swear somebody else mentioned it.

You were right the guy who played it to me over the phone said it was a Smile outtake.  Maybe he was wrong.  Now he was indeed right about the Elements demo which was subsequently bootlegged.
Then again I was still in shock hearing the Sail on Sailor composing tape.

Durrie Parks.  She told me in an email that she had Smile acetates and tapes.  What a letdown to know it was all fruitless.

Can somebody explain this?

What was on those acetates
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« Reply #224 on: October 06, 2011, 11:53:08 AM »

Yup I guess that was indeed me who posted the Jungle Music info.  Could swear somebody else mentioned it.

You were right the guy who played it to me over the phone said it was a Smile outtake.  Maybe he was wrong.  Now he was indeed right about the Elements demo which was subsequently bootlegged.
Then again I was still in shock hearing the Sail on Sailor composing tape.

Durrie Parks.  She told me in an email that she had Smile acetates and tapes.  What a letdown to know it was all fruitless.

Can somebody explain this?

What was on those acetates

Nothing of any real interest, apparently.
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