SMiLE vs Song Cycle

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

I've just listened to Song Cycle the whole way through for the first REAL time, and I've gotta say, it would have rivaled SMiLE and Sgt. Pepper if it had been purchased the way it should've been.

SMiLE has the "Americana" theme, but Song Cycle Jacks it up a notch, and I honestly think that the fade into the strange Intro/Ending of "The All Golden" may be one of the best in history, not just that era.

SMiLE and Song Cycle are both BRUTALLY under purchased (well, not TSS, haha) and I think that SC should have been AT LEAST #5 on the charts.

Honestly, read some reviews! How did the "ALBUM OF THE YEAR *****" not make it on the charts!?!?!? AGH HISTORY IS A BI*CH!

[pixletwin]

Honestly I feel like Song Cycle noodles around too much.

[onkster]

I like what I've heard on Song Cycle, but that damn excessive reverb prevents me from truly enjoying it. If they could do a dry remaster, I'm sure I'd have it on a lot more.

Here's hoping there IS a dry source tape in the vaults somewhere... (anybody know? AGD? Anybody?)

[rab2591]

Had Song Cycle been released by a 'band' it would've been a hit....had there been more than one primary singer, it would have faired far better....instead, it was released and sung by a mostly unknown artist named Van Dyke Parks. Just my opinion.

Every song on that album has its own atmosphere - its own set of strange instruments and compositions. It's one of my favorites.

[ghost]

Honestly I feel like Song Cycle noodles around too much.

Exactly, to the average listener Song Cycle is sensory overload. It's just too much to take in, so most tune out. Some of us know his merits as a writer and arranger and even the strange comfort of hearing his voice but for most people Song Cycle would probably not make a splash. Don't believe the marketing campaign for Song Cycle that it would top Sgt Pepper or whatever, it would never appeal to the common listener like The Beatles' very accessible songs. Van Dyke Parks sounds esoteric compared to The Beatles. Smile as a whole is also much more accessible than Song Cycle.

Ultimately Song Cycle just goes over too many heads. Hit records usually have immediate and sometimes lasting appeal. Like Brian hearing Strawberry Fields Forever. One time, as it was playing, that's all the man needed. Not 50 listenes or several thousands as we have. Smile is like that, don't you remember hearing the Bicycle Rider theme for the first time?!

[37!ws]

Song Cycle is just a mess. Period. It's just too much.

[SMiLE Brian]

 

Song Cycle is just a mess. Period. It's just too much.

I agree, Brian kept Van dyke's ideas somewhat easy to listen to on SMiLE.

[ghost]

Song Cycle is just a mess. Period. It's just too much.

I agree, Brian kept Van dyke's ideas somewhat easy to listen to on SMiLE.

VDP could complexify BW's ideas.
BW could simplify VDP's.

[pixletwin]

Honestly I feel like Song Cycle noodles around too much.

Exactly, to the average listener Song Cycle is sensory overload. It's just too much to take in, so most tune out. Some of us know his merits as a writer and arranger and even the strange comfort of hearing his voice but for most people Song Cycle would probably not make a splash. Don't believe the marketing campaign for Song Cycle that it would top Sgt Pepper or whatever, it would never appeal to the common listener like The Beatles' very accessible songs. Van Dyke Parks sounds esoteric compared to The Beatles. Smile as a whole is also much more accessible than Song Cycle.

Ultimately Song Cycle just goes over too many heads. Hit records usually have immediate and sometimes lasting appeal. Like Brian hearing Strawberry Fields Forever. One time, as it was playing, that's all the man needed. Not 50 listenes or several thousands as we have. Smile is like that, don't you remember hearing the Bicycle Rider theme for the first time?!

There is a distinct difference between "atonal" and noodling. This has a lot noodling to my ears. Being an affectionado of atonal compsers like Berg, Schnitke, Webern, and Schoenberg (as well as a composer of atonal music myself) I like to assume I am not "most people".   

[joshferrell]

I find it interesting but I like his other albums better especially "Jump","discover america" and "Tokyo rose"  (jump is amazing in my opinion)

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

I think, honestly, that you have to be a studio trained musician to appreciate this album.

It is SO advanced for the time, that i'm surprised anyone released it (of course, same goes for pepper and.... haha)

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Van Dyke should've stuck to the pop formula of that period and did blues guitar riffs for 10 mins

[ghost]

Van Dyke should've stuck to the pop formula of that period and did blues guitar riffs for 10 mins

If VDP sung more about things I could personally relate to - girls, good times, positive feelings, cars, the beach, surfing... then I'd be more inclined towards his music. It's just too out there for me. You need something people know - what do people know? boy & girl.

[mtaber]

Warner Brothers had trouble GIVING the damned thing away...

[rab2591]

I think, honestly, that you have to be a studio trained musician to appreciate this album.

It is SO advanced for the time, that i'm surprised anyone released it (of course, same goes for pepper and.... haha)

I think it just takes people who are willing to listen closely to appreciate it. There are so many elements to this album that I can see why many don't like it. I like it so much because it's a breath of fresh air in a world full of musical garbage. Boy/girl songs, as nice as they are, have been done to death. Van Dyke Parks has the talent to create pop-masterpieces (Do What You Wanta, Come To The Sunshine), but declines on this album - he realizes new ground must be tread because pop has had it's day...it has been overdone to death...but most people just aren't in tune to Van Dyke's thinking.

[hypehat]

Warner Brothers had trouble GIVING the damned thing away...

I know. That's the saddest thing I think I've ever heard of in popular music.

Essentially, Song Cycle is a great piece of American classical music. It rivals Copland and Ives in scope and technical innovation, and is a huge piece of technical innovation in the studio too. But think of it as a pop record and the songs lack structure. But it's not a pop album. It's a symphonic work.

[changeng]

Had Song Cycle been done as a stage show, it would be respected as great American theater.

[Cam Mott]

I think it also had something to do with VDP's voice being an aquired taste that the general public didn't.

[pixletwin]

I think it also had something to do with VDP's voice being an aquired taste that the general public didn't.

I think that is an important point. VDP, for all his strengths, singing is not really one of them. A fact he is laughingly aware of.

[Aegir]

here's the thing, Smile and Sgt. Pepper were albums (or almost-albums) by already existing bands who started off singing boy-girl pop songs, wearing matching outfits, et cetera. and then they release (or almost-release) psychedelic masterpieces. music press goes "what the hell?" music public goes "what the hell?"

now, Van Dyke's psychedelic masterpiece is his debut album. music press goes "oh cool". music public goes "who cares?"

[Myk Luhv]

I bet I'd have more fun hanging out with Van Dyke for a day than I would with Brian Wilson.

[juggler]

I first became aware of Song Cycle when I read David Leaf's book in the early '90s (pre-WWW).  Leaf had a picture of the Song Cycle album and said something along the lines of "Song Cycle is the sort of album that Smile might have been" (my memory may be faulty -- I don't actually own Leaf's book to check -- but that was the gist of it).

When I bought Song Cycle, I enjoyed it and was impressed, but it really isn't on the level of Smile... for several reasons.

(1) As others have pointed out, VDP isn't much of a singer.  The Beach Boys were at the top of their game vocally in the mid-1960s.  They were one of the most talented vocal groups in the world (at least among the vocal groups making records, anyway).  VDP, as a vocalist, was so far below the level of the Beach Boys that the comparison is absurd.  Not surprisingly, perhaps, my favorite track on Song Cycle is the instrumental "Donovan's Colours."

(2) VDP is a talented composer, but he's no Brian Wilson.  The instrumental tracks on Song Cycle are inventive, but, in my opinion, they lack the out-of-this-world brilliance we hear on Wonderful, Cabin Essence, Surf's Up, Wind Chimes, etc.

(3) Overall, I feel like Song Cycle lacks the "edge" of Smile.  Song Cycle is a bit eccentric, sure, but ultimately it feels like the work of a sane, relatively normal mind.  Smile tracks like 'Fire,' on the other hand, seem like the work of someone who has parted company with sanity.  And, well, sanity is a bit boring.

[JK]

Much as I admire Van Dyke as a musician, a lyricist and a human being, and much as I'd like to appreciate the Ivesian subtleties of Song Cycle, it just gives me a headache. 

[Camus]

A truly brilliant album.  The arrangements are fantastic.  I would love to hear a 5.1 mix of ths album - it would give the arrangements enough space to breathe.  I think it's a great shame VDP doesn't particularly like the album IIRC.  My favourite song from the album is Palm Desert.  Some of those clashing french horn lines are great.

[The Shift]

A truly brilliant album.  The arrangements are fantastic.  I would love to hear a 5.1 mix of ths album - it would give the arrangements enough space to breathe.  I think it's a great shame VDP doesn't particularly like the album IIRC.  My favourite song from the album is Palm Desert.  Some of those clashing french horn lines are great.

Agree, an incredible record… and within the last couple of years VDP said in an interview that Song Cycle was being prepared for 5.1 release.  But no news since then… has 5.1 had its day?