SPOILER!!- Heroes and Villains and Good Vibrations from TSS

[DonnyL]

worth mentioning is that if SMILE had been released in '67, any and all edits would have been done in the analog realm (on tape), which by nature results in less-than-perfect edits ... i don't think "Brian's" edits were intentionally abrupt, it's just kind of an artifact of the process.

i'm personally waiting for the box to play the album on vinyl before listening to any online clips.

[Ron]

Personally, that's what is so cool about GV is the rough edits.  I thought that was the whole 'gimmick' of the song? 

[seanmurd]

Didn't realize they'd go all out fan mix-style editing on the main release. I suppose it makes sense in some ways, but isn't really the most accurate presentation. Ah well, fan mixes have existed for ages and will continue to, I suppose.

Scratch that - what's with the weird, fabricated H&V ending? Again, sounds very fan mix-ish. The great but ultimately excluded on the final version "hum bee"-ness on "Good Vibrations"? I knew they were using BWPS as a template, but they didn't have to go to this extent. I never understood fan mixes (and now official mixes) screwing with "Good Vibrations", which Brian finished back then. Would've been cool as an extra, but on the official tracklist, it feels kind of weird. Just me.

Ah well, it's still really cool. However, if there is any Purple Chick-style ridiculousness (ala the ending of "Holidays", editing "Look", etc.), I will not be happy.

When I made my SMiLE comp, I had only one mission in mind -- and it wasn't "I'm going to finish what Brian couldn't" or "Let's make a historically accurate album based on the hand-written track list." My only goal was to take all the SMiLE bits I liked the best -- spread out over upwards of 20 CDs -- and make a single listenable CD out of them. I think that's the approach Mark Linett has taken with the "album" tracks on disc one. It's not a historically accurate re-creation of what the album might have been in 1967 (not with three LP sides), and it's not even a strictly accurate reproduction of BWPS (with "Great Shape" moved and the variations in "H&V"). Instead, I think he's looking at it this way: "What is the coolest, most entertaining version of each song?" He knows that the casual listener -- for whom Disc One will be their ONLY experience of SMiLE -- will miss out on a lot of cool stuff from the session discs, so he's going to put that cool stuff into the "album" tracks, where he deems them appropriate. A great example is "Wonderful" -- it's nearly identical to the GV box version, but ML added the "yodeling" backing vocals. A minor difference for US, the fanatics, but it may enhance the enjoyment of the casual fan.

Same thing with "Good Vibrations." The single version is a classic, it's available almost anywhere -- so how to make it just a LITTLE more special for the "album" version? Adding the "humbedum" vocals. Yes, it's all a little "fan-mix"-ish, but remember -- this is NOT "1967 SMiLE" and it's not a historical reconstruction. Remember the inscription on the runout groove of the MOJO single? "This doesn't have to be perfect ... it's just gotta be honest." (BW) I think that's the philosophy driving the disc one "album" of SMiLE -- I'm sure they are trying to cling to whatever historical evidence they can, but in the end, it just has to make sense, and be a fun CD to listen to. The historical stuff on discs 2-5 -- "That's for us" is I believe what Alan Boyd said in one of these threads.

As far as it being "honest" -- like you (I think) I would draw the line at wildly artificial hoops being jumped through to cram this music into the BWPS template. Re-creating the transition from "Wonderful" to "Look" might be easy enough, but if they can't do the "Holidays" to "Whispering Winds" to "Wind Chimes" bit without Pro-Tooling it to high heaven, I'd rather they just didn't try. We'll see how it comes out. If the first four tracks we've heard ("H&V," "Cabin Essence," "Wonderful" and "Good Vibes") are any indication, I'm not worried at all -- in fact I'm looking forward to the little surprises that this "ultimate fan mix" will bring. If there's stuff I DON'T like, well, I can just dig into the box and make my OWN versions, can't I? 

[Micha]

Something to keep in mind regarding these new mixes/edits is that this kind of reworking has been going on for at least 20 years.

Tracks like "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", "Can't Wait Too Long", "Old Man River", "Fourth Of July", "Loop de Loop", "Fallin' In Love" (CD version), the GV Box Set versions of "Do You Like Worms?", "Vegetables", "Wind Chimes" and "Heroes & Villains (Sections)" all debuted in versions mixed and edited years after their actual recording. These were not historically accurate representations of what the recordings sounded like in the late 60s / early 70s. The same approach is being used for Disc 1 of TSS.

The only way to experience a true historically accurate SMiLE is to listen to all of the unedited snippets on repeat shuffle (which actually sounds like fun). I'm thinking that the TSS set will let us know when a vintage edit has been used (I don't expect this will happen too often); otherwise, I will enjoy the presentation in the same way I've always enjoyed previous archival releases from the Beach Boys.

How do you know "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" and "Fourth Of July" aren't historically accurate representations of what the recordings sounded like in the late 60s? And how would they have sounded?

[Jeff]

Something to keep in mind regarding these new mixes/edits is that this kind of reworking has been going on for at least 20 years.

Tracks like "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", "Can't Wait Too Long", "Old Man River", "Fourth Of July", "Loop de Loop", "Fallin' In Love" (CD version), the GV Box Set versions of "Do You Like Worms?", "Vegetables", "Wind Chimes" and "Heroes & Villains (Sections)" all debuted in versions mixed and edited years after their actual recording. These were not historically accurate representations of what the recordings sounded like in the late 60s / early 70s. The same approach is being used for Disc 1 of TSS.

The only way to experience a true historically accurate SMiLE is to listen to all of the unedited snippets on repeat shuffle (which actually sounds like fun). I'm thinking that the TSS set will let us know when a vintage edit has been used (I don't expect this will happen too often); otherwise, I will enjoy the presentation in the same way I've always enjoyed previous archival releases from the Beach Boys.

How do you know "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" and "Fourth Of July" aren't historically accurate representations of what the recordings sounded like in the late 60s? And how would they have sounded?

It's not how they would have sounded in the 60s, it's how they did sound--and that was unfinished.

Inevitably, any later-day creation is going to sound at least a little bit different than the song would have sounded earlier.  Think about documents you've lost to computer crashes.  When you rewrite them, they're not going to be word-for-word the same as they were.

Really, so many of you guys want to have your cake and eat it too.  You want to hear finished songs that were unfinished at the time they were recorded.  So the record company finishes them for you, and they sound good, at least in many cases.  But then you want to pretend that the recently finished versions are in fact vintage 60s edits, or at least that the new edits are exactly the way they would have been in the 60s, and that cannot be.

I understand that the popular position on this board has become that things ARE a certain way, and that people should not even be allowed to dispute that (especially if a Brian quote can be found to support your position).  But some of you are going way, way overboard with this stuff.

[seanmurd]

Here's the way I'm thinking about the disc one "album" -- all it needs to be is entertaining. I'm not expecting heavenly light to shine down from the sky as I finally hear what the "Barnyard Suite" was going to be in 1967. Disc One is a big-budget popcorn movie, and the individual tracks are like the sets. No one complains if the city street is a facade, or a green screen, as long as it FEELS real and serves the movie. Special effects, like flying in the yodels in "Wonderful"? Not only acceptable, but EXPECTED in a big budget popcorn movie. I fully expect it to be terrifically entertaining; it will be the SMiLE I urge friends to listen to. The rest of the box set? Those are the bonus features on the BluRay disc -- the documentaries, the interviews, the outtakes, the deleted scenes. That stuff is for the historians -- professional and amateur -- to sift through. Disc One should just make you ... well, you know... smile.

[Myk Luhv]

Oh, I also hope the vinyl is sourced from analogue masters and not digital copies used in the box set or whatever, like Brian's 2004 Smile was (I own it but haven't yet played it though I hear it sounds absolutely fantastic). Any word on that kinda thing?

[Wirestone]

Seanmurd: That's a wonderful thought, and it might just make me feel better about the entire thing. Thanks.

[DonnyL]

Oh, I also hope the vinyl is sourced from analogue masters and not digital copies used in the box set or whatever, like Brian's 2004 Smile was (I own it but haven't yet played it though I hear it sounds absolutely fantastic). Any word on that kinda thing?

i would say it's highly unlikely (nearly impossible) that this is the case.  Brian's 2004 SMILE is a digital recording.

[Chris Brown]

Here's the way I'm thinking about the disc one "album" -- all it needs to be is entertaining. I'm not expecting heavenly light to shine down from the sky as I finally hear what the "Barnyard Suite" was going to be in 1967. Disc One is a big-budget popcorn movie, and the individual tracks are like the sets. No one complains if the city street is a facade, or a green screen, as long as it FEELS real and serves the movie. Special effects, like flying in the yodels in "Wonderful"? Not only acceptable, but EXPECTED in a big budget popcorn movie. I fully expect it to be terrifically entertaining; it will be the SMiLE I urge friends to listen to. The rest of the box set -- those are the bonus features on the BluRay disc -- the documentaries, the interviews, the outtakes, the deleted scenes. That stuff is for the historians -- professional and amateur -- to sift through. Disc One should just make you ... well, you know... smile.

Perfectly stated.  From all indications, the first disc is going to be one hell of a blockbuster, especially for the uninitiated!

[monicker]

Can anyone make out the split second at the beginning of H&V? Right when you hit play, before the song starts, there is like 0.002 seconds of whatever comes before it. You think the flutter tone bookends the song? If so, it doesn't bleed into the song. Or it could be the ringing out of the last chord on tack piano in Gee. Or something else entirely? Or i need to get a life?

[GoodToMyBaby]

Can anyone make out the split second at the beginning of H&V? Right when you hit play, before the song starts, there is like 0.002 seconds of whatever comes before it. You think the flutter tone bookends the song? If so, it doesn't bleed into the song. Or it could be the ringing out of the last chord on tack piano in Gee. Or something else entirely? Or i need to get a life?

  Are we doing this?

[monicker]

I don't know, probably not. I'm having problems.

[GoodToMyBaby]

I don't know, probably not. I'm having problems.

I shouldn't make fun, i'm sorry.

[Shady]

I missed GV from TSS that was posted on Brian's facebook but taken down quickly..

Didd anyone catch it, how did it sound?

[GeorgeFellInHisHorn]

I missed GV from TSS that was posted on Brian's facebook but taken down quickly..

Didd anyone catch it, how did it sound?

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150273122998042

[Compost]

Here's the way I'm thinking about the disc one "album" -- all it needs to be is entertaining. I'm not expecting heavenly light to shine down from the sky as I finally hear what the "Barnyard Suite" was going to be in 1967. Disc One is a big-budget popcorn movie, and the individual tracks are like the sets. No one complains if the city street is a facade, or a green screen, as long as it FEELS real and serves the movie. Special effects, like flying in the yodels in "Wonderful"? Not only acceptable, but EXPECTED in a big budget popcorn movie. I fully expect it to be terrifically entertaining; it will be the SMiLE I urge friends to listen to. The rest of the box set -- those are the bonus features on the BluRay disc -- the documentaries, the interviews, the outtakes, the deleted scenes. That stuff is for the historians -- professional and amateur -- to sift through. Disc One should just make you ... well, you know... smile.

This.

[Shady]

I missed GV from TSS that was posted on Brian's facebook but taken down quickly..

Didd anyone catch it, how did it sound?

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150273122998042

Oh wow, thank you

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

I missed GV from TSS that was posted on Brian's facebook but taken down quickly..

Didd anyone catch it, how did it sound?

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150273122998042

This video happily proved my point, the versions we had were only MP3's, the video is MUCH better quality!

[Shady]

I missed GV from TSS that was posted on Brian's facebook but taken down quickly..

Didd anyone catch it, how did it sound?

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150273122998042

This video happily proved my point, the versions we had were only MP3's, the video is MUCH better quality!

Very true, sounds much better

Can't wait to hear H&V

[pancakerecords]

Oh, I also hope the vinyl is sourced from analogue masters and not digital copies used in the box set or whatever, like Brian's 2004 Smile was (I own it but haven't yet played it though I hear it sounds absolutely fantastic). Any word on that kinda thing?

i would say it's highly unlikely (nearly impossible) that this is the case.  Brian's 2004 SMILE is a digital recording.

The LP's were cut from an analog tape copy of the 88.2k original.

[The Heartical Don]

Here's the way I'm thinking about the disc one "album" -- all it needs to be is entertaining. I'm not expecting heavenly light to shine down from the sky as I finally hear what the "Barnyard Suite" was going to be in 1967. Disc One is a big-budget popcorn movie, and the individual tracks are like the sets. No one complains if the city street is a facade, or a green screen, as long as it FEELS real and serves the movie. Special effects, like flying in the yodels in "Wonderful"? Not only acceptable, but EXPECTED in a big budget popcorn movie. I fully expect it to be terrifically entertaining; it will be the SMiLE I urge friends to listen to. The rest of the box set -- those are the bonus features on the BluRay disc -- the documentaries, the interviews, the outtakes, the deleted scenes. That stuff is for the historians -- professional and amateur -- to sift through. Disc One should just make you ... well, you know... smile.

This.

Let me joint the queue of admirers. Seanmurd da man.

[SamMcK]

Here's the way I'm thinking about the disc one "album" -- all it needs to be is entertaining. I'm not expecting heavenly light to shine down from the sky as I finally hear what the "Barnyard Suite" was going to be in 1967. Disc One is a big-budget popcorn movie, and the individual tracks are like the sets. No one complains if the city street is a facade, or a green screen, as long as it FEELS real and serves the movie. Special effects, like flying in the yodels in "Wonderful"? Not only acceptable, but EXPECTED in a big budget popcorn movie. I fully expect it to be terrifically entertaining; it will be the SMiLE I urge friends to listen to. The rest of the box set? Those are the bonus features on the BluRay disc -- the documentaries, the interviews, the outtakes, the deleted scenes. That stuff is for the historians -- professional and amateur -- to sift through. Disc One should just make you ... well, you know... smile.

Does this mean we could get sequel boxsets if this one does well enough?  

[seanmurd]

Here's the way I'm thinking about the disc one "album" -- all it needs to be is entertaining. I'm not expecting heavenly light to shine down from the sky as I finally hear what the "Barnyard Suite" was going to be in 1967. Disc One is a big-budget popcorn movie, and the individual tracks are like the sets. No one complains if the city street is a facade, or a green screen, as long as it FEELS real and serves the movie. Special effects, like flying in the yodels in "Wonderful"? Not only acceptable, but EXPECTED in a big budget popcorn movie. I fully expect it to be terrifically entertaining; it will be the SMiLE I urge friends to listen to. The rest of the box set? Those are the bonus features on the BluRay disc -- the documentaries, the interviews, the outtakes, the deleted scenes. That stuff is for the historians -- professional and amateur -- to sift through. Disc One should just make you ... well, you know... smile.

Does this mean we could get sequel boxsets if this one does well enough?  

SMiLE 2: Electric Boogaloo

[thevigilanteoflove]

Can anyone make out the split second at the beginning of H&V? Right when you hit play, before the song starts, there is like 0.002 seconds of whatever comes before it. You think the flutter tone bookends the song? If so, it doesn't bleed into the song. Or it could be the ringing out of the last chord on tack piano in Gee. Or something else entirely? Or i need to get a life?

I noticed that too and it sounded the last bit of Gee to me, which is exciting. I can't wait to hear it all together.