Mike Love Mocking 'Heroes & Villains'

[originals]

I heard something on YouTube the other day where you hear the guys singing 'Heroes & Villains' in the background and Mike Love is mocking it - saying things like "Oh yeah, this song shook up the world by debuting on the singles charts at number 44 and then the next week was at the 108 spot on the charts', etc. Then there's a section where the guys are wordlessly harmonizing and Mike says sarcastically: "Wow, listen to those great lyrics!"
Does anyone know where this tape is from or the story behind it?

[Jonas]

Copy I have is grouped with the Wally Heider sessions, not sure if its the same time and mislabeled or what.

[SMiLE Brian]

Brian wrote the skit in a bizarre way to deal with the failure of the song on the charts.

[originals]

Brian wrote the skit in a bizzare way to deal with the failure of the song on the charts.

Is that right?

[Jason]

Brian wrote the skit in a bizzare way to deal with the failure of the song on the charts.

Is that right?

Yeah. Everything you think you know about that version of H&V is wrong. One of Brian's classic put-ons.

[originals]

For me, the 'In The Cantina' and 'Bicycle Rider' sections of Heroes & Villains as heard on the 'Good Vibrations' box set are the actual song. The single they put together for 'Smiley Smile' is disjointed and very roughly edited together  - I don't care for it at all.

[Jon Stebbins]

For me, the 'In The Cantina' and 'Bicycle Rider' sections of Heroes & Villains as heard on the 'Good Vibrations' box set are the actual song. The single they put together for 'Smiley Smile' is disjointed and very roughly edited together  - I don't care for it at all.

It wasn't "put together for 'Smiley Smile'". It was created as a single release by Brian Wilson, and months later added to the Smiley Smile album lineup, just as the single Good Vibrations was. Totally can understand loving the earlier snippets, me too, but i still have a lot of respect for the final edit, i think its epic and warped in a great way...bad mixing/mastering took it down a notch.

[picassosson]

That whole skit is really telling as to how much of Brian's self-confidence as an artist was wrapped up in the popular acceptance and success of his music. Really sad stuff.

[originals]

For me, the 'In The Cantina' and 'Bicycle Rider' sections of Heroes & Villains as heard on the 'Good Vibrations' box set are the actual song. The single they put together for 'Smiley Smile' is disjointed and very roughly edited together  - I don't care for it at all.

It wasn't "put together for 'Smiley Smile'". It was created as a single release by Brian Wilson, and months later added to the Smiley Smile album lineup, just as the single Good Vibrations was. Totally can understand loving the earlier snippets, me too, but i still have a lot of respect for the final edit, i think its epic and warped in a great way...bad mixing/mastering took it down a notch.

I see. Yeah - my main objection is the editing....midway through, the guys explode out of nowhere with the 'bop bop bop bop' stuff and it just reeks of an obvious edit. It just doesn't flow.

[Bill Ed]

The mocking bit sounds like pure Mike Love to me. It's not without humor, but it is filled with contempt.

[originals]

The mocking bit sounds like pure Mike Love to me. It's not without humor, but it is filled with contempt.

Sure sounded that way.

[Jason]

Well, it's not.

[Jon Stebbins]

For me, the 'In The Cantina' and 'Bicycle Rider' sections of Heroes & Villains as heard on the 'Good Vibrations' box set are the actual song. The single they put together for 'Smiley Smile' is disjointed and very roughly edited together  - I don't care for it at all.

It wasn't "put together for 'Smiley Smile'". It was created as a single release by Brian Wilson, and months later added to the Smiley Smile album lineup, just as the single Good Vibrations was. Totally can understand loving the earlier snippets, me too, but i still have a lot of respect for the final edit, i think its epic and warped in a great way...bad mixing/mastering took it down a notch.

I see. Yeah - my main objection is the editing....midway through, the guys explode out of nowhere with the 'bop bop bop bop' stuff and it just reeks of an obvious edit. It just doesn't flow.

Maybe obvious, but I don't think it was sloppy or unconscious, I think Brian was into the shock factor, and that particular edit is groundbreaking for a 1967 single as it pushes the madness envelope.When i hear that distorted explosion of voices come from nowhere it sounds progressive, a little scary, and definitely jarring...which i think is your point, you don't like the jar, because it messes with the flow. But I think that was Brian's intention, like it or not.

[c-man]

For me, the 'In The Cantina' and 'Bicycle Rider' sections of Heroes & Villains as heard on the 'Good Vibrations' box set are the actual song. The single they put together for 'Smiley Smile' is disjointed and very roughly edited together  - I don't care for it at all.

It wasn't "put together for 'Smiley Smile'". It was created as a single release by Brian Wilson, and months later added to the Smiley Smile album lineup, just as the single Good Vibrations was. Totally can understand loving the earlier snippets, me too, but i still have a lot of respect for the final edit, i think its epic and warped in a great way...bad mixing/mastering took it down a notch.

I see. Yeah - my main objection is the editing....midway through, the guys explode out of nowhere with the 'bop bop bop bop' stuff and it just reeks of an obvious edit. It just doesn't flow.

Personally, I love the descending "la-la-la-la-la"s on the verse that just comes out of nowhere midway through the song.  I hadn't yet heard a live version of "H&V" when I saw the Boys perform for the first time in the summer of '79.  When it came to that part, they blew me away with the delivery...a rockin' drum roll, then right into it, just "la-la-la"ing all over the place, in a baseball stadium packed full of people all the way into the outfield.  I agree with everything Jon said, it's got my respect even if it is a "failed" attempt in some ways.

[runnersdialzero]

You can hear Brian laughing at the end.

I see. Yeah - my main objection is the editing....midway through, the guys explode out of nowhere with the 'bop bop bop bop' stuff and it just reeks of an obvious edit. It just doesn't flow.

That's how Brian Befferton recorded during the Smile era, too.

[originals]

For me, the 'In The Cantina' and 'Bicycle Rider' sections of Heroes & Villains as heard on the 'Good Vibrations' box set are the actual song. The single they put together for 'Smiley Smile' is disjointed and very roughly edited together  - I don't care for it at all.

It wasn't "put together for 'Smiley Smile'". It was created as a single release by Brian Wilson, and months later added to the Smiley Smile album lineup, just as the single Good Vibrations was. Totally can understand loving the earlier snippets, me too, but i still have a lot of respect for the final edit, i think its epic and warped in a great way...bad mixing/mastering took it down a notch.

I see. Yeah - my main objection is the editing....midway through, the guys explode out of nowhere with the 'bop bop bop bop' stuff and it just reeks of an obvious edit. It just doesn't flow.

Maybe obvious, but I don't think it was sloppy or unconscious, I think Brian was into the shock factor, and that particular edit is groundbreaking for a 1967 single as it pushes the madness envelope.When i hear that distorted explosion of voices come from nowhere it sounds progressive, a little scary, and definitely jarring...which i think is your point, you don't like the jar, because it messes with the flow. But I think that was Brian's intention, like it or not.

Great comments. Thank you.

[Jason]

If you read some of Brian's comments at the time of the Smile sessions, he was heavily into the idea of provocation. He wanted to scare people with his music.

[monicker]

Man, i love obvious edits in music recordings. The "la la" section at 1:26 is one of my favorite moments in all of music. An amazing change that is only made better by the obvious edit--the way that energetic section just cuts in like that, and tears into the end of the chorus. And the organ in the chorus is so good. Another great, obvious edit is in Wind Chimes (Smile version) when it cuts into the loud section. The first time i ever heard that i flipped out because of how amazing (and obvious) that edit is. Don't see why people are so obsessed with hiding edits. I think both approaches have their place.

[ghost]

That whole skit is really telling as to how much of Brian's self-confidence as an artist was wrapped up in the popular acceptance and success of his music. Really sad stuff.

I think this is a very significant point. He went to an astrologer for insight on when to release Heroes & Villains [and probably other things related to it]. Does this mean Heroes and Villains is witchcraft? Since he saw a witch? Is it magick? Black magick? Is Brian's baldwin organ some kind of ancient relic of an esoteric witch cult? It's Brian Wilson dark, cartoonish & acid/shroom like. HerozenVillenz might be an odd track but it beats Strawberry Fields Forever. At first when I used to read some people here say that they couldn't enjoy any Beatles music I thought they were straight up lying or had some fanatical devotion to this band preventing them enjoying it. But when I do compare both bands - The Beatles & The Beach Boys, [if one had to, were to, as I am, and you can] - then I find the latter to be entirely superior. When you listen to the Beach Boys you know you will get some kind of cool groove. At least, that's how I think of them. Heroes and Villains in the verse is similar to Spector's "Save The Last Dance" but it trips it up - the verse to Heroes runs in that cartoon like way of tripping over itself, overlapping itself. It runs and catches up to itself. It bounces like a yo-yo and a bouncy ball for a child against a wall. My dad said that my mother threw me against a wall as a child a few times for crying. I'm fine though.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeYi0RA2_7A

[stack-o-tracks]

When i hear that distorted explosion of voices come from nowhere it sounds progressive, a little scary, and definitely jarring...which i think is your point, you don't like the jar, because it messes with the flow. But I think that was Brian's intention, like it or not.

Aw yeah. First time I ever heard Heroes & Villains my mind was blown. So many syllables!

[ghost]

Man, i love obvious edits in music recordings. The "la la" section at 1:26 is one of my favorite moments in all of music. An amazing change that is only made better by the obvious edit--the way that energetic section just cuts in like that, and tears into the end of the chorus. And the organ in the chorus is so good. Another great, obvious edit is in Wind Chimes (Smile version) when it cuts into the loud section. The first time i ever heard that i flipped out because of how amazing (and obvious) that edit is. Don't see why people are so obsessed with hiding edits. I think both approaches have their place.

Yeah, that's why I love the single.

For me, the 'In The Cantina' and 'Bicycle Rider' sections of Heroes & Villains as heard on the 'Good Vibrations' box set are the actual song. The single they put together for 'Smiley Smile' is disjointed and very roughly edited together  - I don't care for it at all.

It wasn't "put together for 'Smiley Smile'". It was created as a single release by Brian Wilson, and months later added to the Smiley Smile album lineup, just as the single Good Vibrations was. Totally can understand loving the earlier snippets, me too, but i still have a lot of respect for the final edit, i think its epic and warped in a great way...bad mixing/mastering took it down a notch.

I see. Yeah - my main objection is the editing....midway through, the guys explode out of nowhere with the 'bop bop bop bop' stuff and it just reeks of an obvious edit. It just doesn't flow.

Maybe obvious, but I don't think it was sloppy or unconscious, I think Brian was into the shock factor, and that particular edit is groundbreaking for a 1967 single as it pushes the madness envelope.When i hear that distorted explosion of voices come from nowhere it sounds progressive, a little scary, and definitely jarring...which i think is your point, you don't like the jar, because it messes with the flow. But I think that was Brian's intention, like it or not.

This all ties in very much with what Bill Tobelman has been saying all along about Brian using Zen logic to trip people up and into some kind of new state of mind. What is the purpose of Heroes and Villains, I've often wondered. If you know music that's longer than 3 minute pop music then you know that in general pop radio music comes and goes so fast. It's on and you're into it and then it's gone. Brian seems to use this as the perfect medium for a Zen koan of sound. After the song fades out, how do you feel? Just listen to the single on that YouTube link. In the silence afterwards think- what was that? Jon said it pushes the madness envelope - that is a perfect description. You're on our side now, Jon. I'm appointing you as official Dao Master Jon-Zen.

[urbanite]

The digitally remastered version of H&V on the cd Brian Wilson Classics is really awesome, better than the version I have on my records on other cds.

[originals]

The digitally remastered version of H&V on the cd Brian Wilson Classics is really awesome, better than the version I have on my records on other cds.

Thanks - I'll check it out!

[Cam Mott]

Brian's collaboartion in the H&V spoof doesn't sound sad to me. Sounds like a guy having some fun making fun of himself, somebody else's lyrics, fan's lukewarm reception etc.. It wasn't the first time the Boys had had a flop. Hell it wasn't even a flop, who would consider a #12 a flop?

I agree that then Brian wanted to be scary/shocking/unexpected. I'm wondering if Brian didn't also think he was still making H&V humorous, with the organ flourishes and funny down snuff lyrics? Maybe toned down a little from the "under arrest"/"tape explosion" version, but still funny?

[ghost]

Brian's collaboartion in the H&V spoof doesn't sound sad to me. Sounds like a guy having some fun making fun of himself, somebody else's lyrics, fan's lukewarm reception etc.. It wasn't the first time the Boys had had a flop. Hell it wasn't even a flop, who would consider a #12 a flop?

I agree that then Brian wanted to be scary/shocking/unexpected. I'm wondering if Brian didn't also think he was still making H&V humorous, with the organ flourishes and funny down snuff lyrics? Maybe toned down a little from the "under arrest"/"tape explosion" version, but still funny?

A la Van Dyke Park's term 'cartoon-consciousness', I'd say yes.