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Author Topic: American Band movie--a question about it  (Read 47340 times)
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« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2011, 03:05:09 AM »

Interesting interview that Brian did for the Old Grey Whistle Test in August 1976 is there-American Band used large chunks of it as either narration or straight clips.  I never saw the whole thing-its pretty cool.  I've never seen Brian talk about 20/20, Sunflower, Surf's Up and Friends anywhere else on a video.  Interesting also that he mentions how much he loves Donavan-I've never seen him mention him anywhere else
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« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2011, 03:15:29 AM »

Here it is, direct from the piece I wrote in Beach Boys Stomp #52 (12/85) - bear in mind that this was over 25 years ago and I didn't know anything like the detail I do now. I asked him if "Fire" was done here (i.e. in Western):

"Yes, and it was a damned expensive session. Cost us a small fortune in mikes". I pulled a quizzical face. "It was a crazy session. For starters, we had everyone and their dog in here - really. Brian had his dogs, the ones you hear on the Pet Sounds album in with him and they weren't too well trained, ran all over the place. One vanished for about a quarter-hour and just as we were about to send out search parties, back it trots. 'Bout two minutes later someone from upstairs comes bursting through the door, screaming for the dog's hide: turns out this dog had wandered upstairs, into this guy's office and cocked his leg all over him and the desk. Brian nearly bust a gut laughing... anyway, it got worse. I guess you know about the fire in the bucket ?  Well, after a bit it was tricky seeing across the studio, so we doused it, which was a big mistake. The idea took on and about every five minutes or so after that, someone'd let off a fire extinguisher. Like I said, cost us a small fortune in mikes".

Now, isn't there a piece that describes Brian & co having extinguisher fights during the Smile sessions ? I remembered that, oh, maybe 13 seconds ago.

« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 03:16:23 AM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2011, 05:15:04 AM »

It's been established almost since the footage was released on An American Band 26 years ago that this is not the "Fire" session: aside from the presence of people who weren't there (Mike, Carl, VDP), the AFM for "Fire" states it was recorded at Gold Star, as does the Siegel article.

However... when I interviewed him in the control room of Western Three back in late March 1985, Chuck told me a funny little story about the "Fire" session, and it wasn't until I was back at the hotel that it hit me, with almost physical force, that as it was recorded at Gold Star, why was he there, engineering ?  So, unless I totally misunderstood/mistranscribed from the tape what he was saying, maybe there was a further "Fire" session. Go figure.

It's late now, but tomorrow I'll post what he actually told me.
Mr. Doe, besides your fantastic book and website, what other research have you done over the years? Who and when have you interviewed folks from the BB-Universe? I'd love to read this stuff if it's posted anywhere  Wink

Over the years I've interviewed/spoken to:

Brian
Carl
Dennis
Alan
Bruce
David
Scott Bennett
Darian Sahanaja
Probyn Gregory
Nelson Bragg
Jack Rieley
Steve Kalinich
Chuck Britz
Steve Desper
The Honeys
Dan Rutherford
Barbara Charren-Wilson
Ed Roach
Jasper Dailey
Sharon Marie
Mark Linett
Alan Boyd
Gene Landy
... and others who requested anonymity.

Andrew, have you not yet interviewed/spoken to Mike Love?
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« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2011, 05:48:43 AM »

Not yet.
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« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2011, 07:44:15 AM »

Here it is, direct from the piece I wrote in Beach Boys Stomp #52 (12/85) - bear in mind that this was over 25 years ago and I didn't know anything like the detail I do now. I asked him if "Fire" was done here (i.e. in Western):

"Yes, and it was a damned expensive session. Cost us a small fortune in mikes". I pulled a quizzical face. "It was a crazy session. For starters, we had everyone and their dog in here - really. Brian had his dogs, the ones you hear on the Pet Sounds album in with him and they weren't too well trained, ran all over the place. One vanished for about a quarter-hour and just as we were about to send out search parties, back it trots. 'Bout two minutes later someone from upstairs comes bursting through the door, screaming for the dog's hide: turns out this dog had wandered upstairs, into this guy's office and cocked his leg all over him and the desk. Brian nearly bust a gut laughing... anyway, it got worse. I guess you know about the fire in the bucket ?  Well, after a bit it was tricky seeing across the studio, so we doused it, which was a big mistake. The idea took on and about every five minutes or so after that, someone'd let off a fire extinguisher. Like I said, cost us a small fortune in mikes".

Now, isn't there a piece that describes Brian & co having extinguisher fights during the Smile sessions ? I remembered that, oh, maybe 13 seconds ago.




Yes, that fire extinguisher fight is described in one of the Smile articles, Vosse's Teen Set piece. It's an overdub session at Western #3 where Brian was adding multiple pianos to a track featuring a "music box melody". Chuck's name is mentioned.
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« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2011, 08:04:29 AM »

Speaking of Chuck, here he is taking a drag:


Another shot of him at the tape machine:


Can anyone identify this magazine Carl is holding? I don't recognize the cover:



Here's a neat one: Behind a layer of darkness this shot in the film revealed another man sitting in the control room. Does anyone have a guess as to who this guy could be?



Now we have two mystery men from that film: The guy wearing the white shirt and tie (most likely a studio employee), and this guy sitting behind Brian. And note the fire extinguisher hanging on the wall to the right side of the photo. Smiley
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« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2011, 08:18:36 AM »

Are those all compression units above the tape machine?
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« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2011, 08:41:29 AM »

Can anyone identify this magazine Carl is holding? I don't recognize the cover:


Bravo Magazine [Germany] (24 September 1966)
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« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2011, 08:43:26 AM »

I was thinkin it looked like Ringo
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« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2011, 09:08:32 AM »

Are those all compression units above the tape machine?

Those units are the Scully 280 preamps, like this one, for the tape machines:


It looks like two four-track machines installed next to each other. If they had an 8 track machine, those Scully units might look more like this:

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« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2011, 09:15:33 AM »


Bravo Magazine [Germany] (24 September 1966)

I'm stunned...just amazed you came up with an answer that fast! Incredible. I captured that image last night after trying several times to get a semi-clear shot of the cover, hoping for an ID of the issue, and within an hour of posting it not only an answer but also a full-color scan appears on the board.

Thank you very much!

This would make *perfect* sense for Carl to have a German pop magazine, as the Beach Boys had just returned from their November 1966 European tour which included Munich.
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« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2011, 11:15:57 AM »

Here it is, direct from the piece I wrote in Beach Boys Stomp #52 (12/85) - bear in mind that this was over 25 years ago and I didn't know anything like the detail I do now. I asked him if "Fire" was done here (i.e. in Western):

"Yes, and it was a damned expensive session. Cost us a small fortune in mikes". I pulled a quizzical face. "It was a crazy session. For starters, we had everyone and their dog in here - really. Brian had his dogs, the ones you hear on the Pet Sounds album in with him and they weren't too well trained, ran all over the place. One vanished for about a quarter-hour and just as we were about to send out search parties, back it trots. 'Bout two minutes later someone from upstairs comes bursting through the door, screaming for the dog's hide: turns out this dog had wandered upstairs, into this guy's office and cocked his leg all over him and the desk. Brian nearly bust a gut laughing... anyway, it got worse. I guess you know about the fire in the bucket ?  Well, after a bit it was tricky seeing across the studio, so we doused it, which was a big mistake. The idea took on and about every five minutes or so after that, someone'd let off a fire extinguisher. Like I said, cost us a small fortune in mikes".

Now, isn't there a piece that describes Brian & co having extinguisher fights during the Smile sessions ? I remembered that, oh, maybe 13 seconds ago.




Yes, that fire extinguisher fight is described in one of the Smile articles, Vosse's Teen Set piece. It's an overdub session at Western #3 where Brian was adding multiple pianos to a track featuring a "music box melody". Chuck's name is mentioned.

Ya know, I wouldn't exactly call Brian spraying air from a fire extinguisher on David Anderle "A fight". ( Article posted in Media under magazines)
What I'd like to hear is the vocal sounds of Atlantis...
And I'd like to bring up a small dating issue on my part; I'd always thought most magazines came out one month in advance of their issue date. It tuirns out that TeenSets came out two months prior. ( maybe everyone but me, knew this) So this April 1967 issue had a February 1967 street date.
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« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2011, 11:29:15 AM »

…lots of goodies there, too bad many are silent.

Not wrong!  Type "Beach Boys" into the search field and see what comes up:

http://www.globalimageworks.com/clip-brian-wilson-in-recording-studio-1874_026?id=45094&search_string=beach+boys&submit_y=10&search_type=all&startrow=0

… for example…

I can watch that video a million times
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« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2011, 12:46:41 PM »

Chris, back in those days, fire extinguishers were often filled with a nasty yellow dry chemical powder -- especially in areas where electronics were in use -- as opposed to CO2 or pressurized water (which would short out the electronics).  I remember us finding one at our fraternity house that was about 20 years old, and setting it off.  Covered us all in yellow dust, and took us weeks to clean up.  I still don't think my lungs have recovered...

This could be what Chuck is referring to when he talks about damage to the microphones, as that stuff would likely ruin the diaphragms -- although plain water would do the trick as well!

Lee
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« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2011, 01:03:39 PM »

Chris, back in those days, fire extinguishers were often filled with a nasty yellow dry chemical powder -- especially in areas where electronics were in use -- as opposed to CO2 or pressurized water (which would short out the electronics).  I remember us finding one at our fraternity house that was about 20 years old, and setting it off.  Covered us all in yellow dust, and took us weeks to clean up.  I still don't think my lungs have recovered...

This could be what Chuck is referring to when he talks about damage to the microphones, as that stuff would likely ruin the diaphragms -- although plain water would do the trick as well!

Lee

Perhaps, perhaps; BUT, if you had gone to the magazine section and read the posted article, you would have seen this: 

   

And then you would have understood the reference to Air in my earlier post.
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« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2011, 02:43:08 PM »

So here's something else I noticed reading the TeenSet article I posted( probably not the exact correct thread, but I'm here and I couldn't find the Gig one)
The BBs didn't meet the Maharishi until December 15th, 1967 at the Unicef Gig in France; yet in this article from early 1967 brian is talking about how important meditation is to him already( without the Swami): 
  >>A long and arduous session is underway at Western. A
brief break is called and as the musicians file out for coffee,
Brian huddles in a corner talking to engineer Henry Levy
who is on a break from the Association's session down the
hall. In a few weeks Henry will leave for India for six
months of study under a great religious teacher. Brian has
been attending discussion classes at Henry's house. 
  " Meditation is an important part of my life now. It is
a great source of peace and energy." Brian has recently
built a meditation tent filling a whole room of his large house.
The tent is an oval with a puffed ceiling all made from a
beautiful red and gold Indian print fabric. <<
  Also wondering if the "great religious leader" is the Swami, and whether when Henry returned, Brian still had any interest...
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« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2011, 07:39:27 PM »

It's been established almost since the footage was released on An American Band 26 years ago that this is not the "Fire" session: aside from the presence of people who weren't there (Mike, Carl, VDP), the AFM for "Fire" states it was recorded at Gold Star, as does the Siegel article.

However... when I interviewed him in the control room of Western Three back in late March 1985, Chuck told me a funny little story about the "Fire" session, and it wasn't until I was back at the hotel that it hit me, with almost physical force, that as it was recorded at Gold Star, why was he there, engineering ?  So, unless I totally misunderstood/mistranscribed from the tape what he was saying, maybe there was a further "Fire" session. Go figure.

It's late now, but tomorrow I'll post what he actually told me.
Mr. Doe, besides your fantastic book and website, what other research have you done over the years? Who and when have you interviewed folks from the BB-Universe? I'd love to read this stuff if it's posted anywhere  Wink

Over the years I've interviewed/spoken to:

Brian
Carl
Dennis
Alan
Bruce
David
Scott Bennett
Darian Sahanaja
Probyn Gregory
Nelson Bragg
Jack Rieley
Steve Kalinich
Chuck Britz
Steve Desper
The Honeys
Dan Rutherford
Barbara Charren-Wilson
Ed Roach
Jasper Dailey
Sharon Marie
Mark Linett
Alan Boyd
Gene Landy
... and others who requested anonymity.

What? No John Stamos? Smiley
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« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2011, 08:12:33 PM »


What? No John Stamos? Smiley

Now see, this is beginning to seem a pattern:  No Stamos, No Love.
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« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2011, 11:56:29 AM »

Are those all compression units above the tape machine?

Those units are the Scully 280 preamps, like this one, for the tape machines:


It looks like two four-track machines installed next to each other. If they had an 8 track machine, those Scully units might look more like this:



actually, it is a Scully 280 8-track (you can see the single transport and 1" tape below); the 8 electronics modules are just arranged differently (this certainly would have been one of the earliest 8-tracks).  Those modules did include mic preamps but they were not likely used.
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« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2011, 05:55:22 PM »

I signed up for an account with them (Global Image Works) and am slowly downloading the thing in MOV format. [/quote] Be careful with those. I would really hate for some evil despicable bootlegger to start trying to shove them down my throat by way of private means.
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« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2011, 07:29:50 PM »

Chris, back in those days, fire extinguishers were often filled with a nasty yellow dry chemical powder -- especially in areas where electronics were in use -- as opposed to CO2 or pressurized water (which would short out the electronics).  I remember us finding one at our fraternity house that was about 20 years old, and setting it off.  Covered us all in yellow dust, and took us weeks to clean up.  I still don't think my lungs have recovered...

This could be what Chuck is referring to when he talks about damage to the microphones, as that stuff would likely ruin the diaphragms -- although plain water would do the trick as well!

Lee

Perhaps, perhaps; BUT, if you had gone to the magazine section and read the posted article, you would have seen this: 

   

And then you would have understood the reference to Air in my earlier post.

Hmm, "blast of cool air" would imply CO2.  I stand corrected...

Lee
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« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2011, 11:23:37 PM »

Are those all compression units above the tape machine?

Those units are the Scully 280 preamps, like this one, for the tape machines:


It looks like two four-track machines installed next to each other. If they had an 8 track machine, those Scully units might look more like this:



actually, it is a Scully 280 8-track (you can see the single transport and 1" tape below); the 8 electronics modules are just arranged differently (this certainly would have been one of the earliest 8-tracks).  Those modules did include mic preamps but they were not likely used.

There is one major conflict though: Western didn't get a proper 8-track until at least Spring of 1967. Wasn't it reported for years that Brian started tracking at Columbia because they had an 8-track machine and Western did not, which made Brian's stacking vocals much easier? Also, I remember reading a similar thing about Van Dyke Parks' "Song Cycle", and how the tracks he did at Western were still on 4 track, before doing additional recording elsewhere. Same with Bones Howe and the Mamas And Papas, at least on California Dreamin.

There is also a United/Western newsletter heralding the arrival of the new 3M 8-track machines being delivered to the studios, that newsletter dated April 1967.

Since the early 90's I always associated Western #3 and Brian's work there with 4-track recording. Dating this film between November 1966 and January 1967 which is the most logical timeline given the details shown in the film, if that is an 8-track machine at Western #3 I think that news might surprise a lot of people who assumed Western #3 was still a 4-track studio at that time. I'd love to be proven wrong, and I'll look for additional photos and shots of that machine.
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« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2011, 11:33:44 PM »

Western had a quasi-8 track:

"But Western studio 1 was a new room; there was a new generation of recording console sitting in the studio 1 control room; there were new, clean, solid-state modular channel amps handling the signal, and, against the wall, the 3M "4-channel Dynatrack" recorder. Did he know what to do with all this? Certainly he knew what good recording was all about. But multi-track was a different animal. Only a few years old, 4-track recording was revolutionizing the music world. A new way to conceptualize the process of composing and producing was now possible with this new multi-track mentality. Some were faster than others in getting into it. Breakthrough 4-track recordings were being produced by many in the new rock world of England and the US, but not everybody got the point. The 3M "4-channel Dynatrack" machine had come to United and Western (all machines were shared between the two studios; the machines-on-wheels scooted back and forth all day and all evening). "Dynatrack" was 3M's scheme to provide more headroom, lower noise in 4-channel recording by using two tracks for each of the four channels - one set at a higher recording level; with the playback signal seamlessly switched (that's the trick) between the two tracks to achieve the desired result. It worked fine. But, since the machine achieved its end by being an 8-track recorder, screw "4-channel Dynatrack". This is an 8-track. And as the Wizard said, this is a horse of a very different color! Work with the best.

http://www.precambrianmusic.com/history1.htm
« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 11:36:12 PM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2011, 11:42:41 PM »

Western had a quasi-8 track:

"But Western studio 1 was a new room; there was a new generation of recording console sitting in the studio 1 control room; there were new, clean, solid-state modular channel amps handling the signal, and, against the wall, the 3M "4-channel Dynatrack" recorder. Did he know what to do with all this? Certainly he knew what good recording was all about. But multi-track was a different animal. Only a few years old, 4-track recording was revolutionizing the music world. A new way to conceptualize the process of composing and producing was now possible with this new multi-track mentality. Some were faster than others in getting into it. Breakthrough 4-track recordings were being produced by many in the new rock world of England and the US, but not everybody got the point. The 3M "4-channel Dynatrack" machine had come to United and Western (all machines were shared between the two studios; the machines-on-wheels scooted back and forth all day and all evening). "Dynatrack" was 3M's scheme to provide more headroom, lower noise in 4-channel recording by using two tracks for each of the four channels - one set at a higher recording level; with the playback signal seamlessly switched (that's the trick) between the two tracks to achieve the desired result. It worked fine. But, since the machine achieved its end by being an 8-track recorder, screw "4-channel Dynatrack". This is an 8-track. And as the Wizard said, this is a horse of a very different color! Work with the best.

http://www.precambrianmusic.com/history1.htm


This is a photo of the 3M Dynatrack, seen between Frank Jr. and the engineer:


It's a totally different machine, and this very tape machine is what the April 1967 United/Western newsletter was talking about. The only 8-track capability Western #3 might have had at the time this "firehat" film was shot would be two 4-tracks linked together, which they say Chuck Britz had done for Brian. I believe that may be what the Scullys are doing in the film.
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« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2011, 11:52:49 PM »

Also, this from the Wally Heider dot-com site is Wally's own 3M 8-track from this same time period, one of the first three ever built and delivered by 3M and the first one in LA:



Note the configuration, with the modules stacked vertically over-and-under. This was a "rolling" unit as well which Wally would rent out.

More to come...
« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 11:55:50 PM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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