pet sounds as gnostic esotericism

[18thofMay]

Bohemia Grove was where it was at!

[OBLiO]

I saw this, as well, but noticed his name looks like "cut-in type". Wondering about the source for the scan.
Looked into Subud and see that the Latihan is like a candle flame that can be passed on to others.
If I remember correctly, Brian said something about changing "Fire" to lighting a candle.

found the reference:
“I don’t have to do a big scary fire like that. I can do a candle and it’s still fire. That would have been a really bad vibration to let out on the world, that Chicago fire. The next one is going to be a candle.”
– Brian Wilson from “Heroes And Villains” by Steven Gaines - 1986

[bgas]

I saw this, as well, but noticed his name looks like "cut-in type". Wondering about the source for the scan.
Looked into Subud and see that the Latihan is like a candle flame that can be passed on to others.
If I remember correctly, Brian said something about changing "Fire" to lighting a candle.

found the reference:
“I don’t have to do a big scary fire like that. I can do a candle and it’s still fire. That would have been a really bad vibration to let out on the world, that Chicago fire. The next one is going to be a candle.”
– Brian Wilson from “Heroes And Villains” by Steven Gaines - 1986

I searched out the source of the scan, and found the reason it looks like "cut in type": when you do a search for say, Brian Wilson, on the Deseret site, it highlights the items found in yellow. That piece, highlighted in yellow, looks exactly like the scan you show( less the yellow color)

[Andrew G. Doe]

e.

found the reference:
“I don’t have to do a big scary fire like that. I can do a candle and it’s still fire. That would have been a really bad vibration to let out on the world, that Chicago fire. The next one is going to be a candle.”
– Brian Wilson from “Heroes And Villains” by Steven Gaines - 1986

Original reference, "Goodbye Surfing Hello God", Jules Seigel, 1967.

[guitarfool2002]

There is no funny business with the scan - it is from Google News archives, and as Bgas says if you do a search there the name is highlighted in yellow like a hi-lighter pen, and I couldn't get a good scan without that highlighting. I copied the header from the top of the newspaper page and made a composite so the source was right there on top of the news item as one image file.

The Latihan may be considered a flame from a candle which is passed on but I think the more important definition is the "Latihan" is the ultimate goal for someone studying Subud, much like any other religion has that goal which you might strive for through prayer, meditation, study, service, or whatever other practices are a part of reaching that goal. The impression I get with the Latihan is that it is a very individual experience rather than a collective experience among the group, where perhaps one person's Latihan is vastly different from another yet they're both using the same path to get there.

I'd really welcome anyone's opinion here who has actually practiced Subud or studied it more in-depth, as I'm only going by what I've researched and read over time. The aspect of "passing it on" to others in Subud doesn't seem too far removed from other religions, since they need new members to keep the religion alive in the future and one of the goals is always to bring in new members and share the faith, and that seems to go across all denominations and individual faiths.

[OBLiO]

There is no funny business with the scan - it is from Google News archives, and as Bgas says if you do a search there the name is highlighted in yellow like a hi-lighter pen

ok... thanks... do you have a link to it? When I tried a search I come up Deseret News in Utah, but nothing about this particular article.

I remembered what Brian said about the Fire being a bad vibe, and the "next one is going to be a candle" and it would make sense for him to say this if he was into Subud at the time. He was aware that what he put on record was going out into the world. The Opening in Subud is likened to the lighting of a candle within and that inner light can be passed on to others. Religion and spirituality are individual quests, but the ideas and experiences can be expressed... in Brian's case, it was through his music. I don't get a bad vibe from Fire, what I get is truth. Probably why he wanted to have a rebuilding after the Fire... so it wasn't destruction for destruction's sake. Just remembered what Carl said about Smiley Smile being a bunt. Maybe Smiley Smile is a candle. One way to look at it.

Original reference, "Goodbye Surfing Hello God", Jules Seigel, 1967.

Thanks Andrew... I need to read that article.

[guitarfool2002]

There is no funny business with the scan - it is from Google News archives, and as Bgas says if you do a search there the name is highlighted in yellow like a hi-lighter pen

ok... thanks... do you have a link to it? When I tried a search I come up Deseret News in Utah, but nothing about this particular article.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=qfQvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=W0gDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7151,4270845&dq=brian-wilson&hl=en

Clicking on this link will take you right to the article with the highlighted name and all - and it's really just a quick sentence in the middle of a pop music gossip column, blink and you'll miss it kind of thing.

But it is pretty fascinating in context, and a part of Smile which I have never seen discussed elsewhere - that part about Brian possibly composing a piece of music for Subud as he was doing Smile.

[OBLiO]

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=qfQvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=W0gDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7151,4270845&dq=brian-wilson&hl=en

Clicking on this link will take you right to the article with the highlighted name and all - and it's really just a quick sentence in the middle of a pop music gossip column, blink and you'll miss it kind of thing.

But it is pretty fascinating in context, and a part of Smile which I have never seen discussed elsewhere - that part about Brian possibly composing a piece of music for Subud as he was doing Smile.

Thanks!... and yes... especially considering the date of the article... at the tail end of the vocal recording sessions. The article does say that Brian has "turned devoutly religious as of late".

Question for Andrew... visited your site and I see recording sessions for vocals at Columbia in December, but some of those dates for vocal sessions fall on the same date as live shows in Seattle and San Francisco. Could those sessions be mock sessions or maybe mixdown sessions? Seems like this was a pivotal time, overall. Thanks.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Question for Andrew... visited your site and I see recording sessions for vocals at Columbia in December, but some of those dates for vocal sessions fall on the same date as live shows in Seattle and San Francisco. Could those sessions be mock sessions or maybe mixdown sessions? Seems like this was a pivotal time, overall. Thanks.

See where, after the studio and session (that is, vocals) info, it says "[BW]" ?

Care to hazard a guess what those initials indicate ? 

And I don't include mixdown sessions as the info to hand is hugely incomplete and sometimes contradictory (and if it comes via Badman, I don't trust it at all).

[bgas]

See where, after the studio and session (that is, vocals) info, it says "[BW]" ?

Care to hazard a guess what those initials indicate ? 

BeoWulf?

[OBLiO]

Question for Andrew... visited your site and I see recording sessions for vocals at Columbia in December, but some of those dates for vocal sessions fall on the same date as live shows in Seattle and San Francisco. Could those sessions be mock sessions or maybe mixdown sessions? Seems like this was a pivotal time, overall. Thanks.

See where, after the studio and session (that is, vocals) info, it says "[BW]" ?

Care to hazard a guess what those initials indicate ? 

And I don't include mixdown sessions as the info to hand is hugely incomplete and sometimes contradictory (and if it comes via Badman, I don't trust it at all).

Do you have logged sessions on your list that have been questioned as to whether or not an actual session took place?

Who is Badman? Does he have a sidekick named Wobbin?

I thought BW was Brian Wilson, but bgas thinks it's Beowulf... but hmmmm let's see... um um um maybe it means Badman and Wobbin...

I was just looking at some chill time the last couple weeks of December in 66 where changes in direction may have taken hold. No big...

[hypehat]

Badman, Keith, has written a hugely erroneous sessions book on the band. Like Brian's autobiography, not to be trusted unless you can find an more trustworthy source corrobating it's information.

[OBLiO]

Badman, Keith, has written a hugely erroneous sessions book on the band. Like Brian's autobiography, not to be trusted unless you can find an more trustworthy source corrobating it's information.

it's a real person? I thought he was being sarcastic...  thanks I will stay away from that book.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Badman, Keith, has written a hugely erroneous sessions book on the band. Like Brian's autobiography, not to be trusted unless you can find an more trustworthy source corrobating it's information.

The book's actually a diary format, 1917-1976: the concert info is far more inaccurate than the sessions stuff.  To be fair, it gives you a good overview, but the fine details are very questionable in places.

Do you have logged sessions on your list that have been questioned as to whether or not an actual session took place?

If there's anything slightly dubious about a session's date, if it was indeed the BB, or it it actually took place at all, that's noted somewhere. An example:

1972
August 31 - Holland session: Leaving This Town [Baambrugge] [9]

Footnote [9] says:

Although these session dates are clearly incompatible with the established concert dates,  this is what the AFM sheets say, and they are included for reference: the best guess is that  someone is misremembering by a month or so as most of the AFM sheets for the  Holland sessions are backdated, having been filed after the band returned to the USA.

[OBLiO]

Thanks Andrew.

To stay on topic, I was thinking there may have been some down time at the end of December and that becoming involved with Subud, especially the writing of religious songs for that church, may have influenced his decisions.

Another thing I noticed in that newspaper is the passing of Walt Disney the day before. Found a fun little link of a clip from the Disney Special airing that following Sunday. Rocket Belt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyvN3rF3mUM

[bgas]

Thanks Andrew.

To stay on topic, I was thinking there may have been some down time at the end of December and that becoming involved with Subud, especially the writing of religious songs for that church, may have influenced his decisions.

But with the news article being dated Dec. 16th, and the almost always, delay in reporting of such tidbuts, it would seem his foray into Subud was more likely to have been in October or November?

[guitarfool2002]

Thanks Andrew.

To stay on topic, I was thinking there may have been some down time at the end of December and that becoming involved with Subud, especially the writing of religious songs for that church, may have influenced his decisions.

But with the news article being dated Dec. 16th, and the almost always, delay in reporting of such tidbuts, it would seem his foray into Subud was more likely to have been in October or November?

This is one of those cases where just a little more information in the article would have been much appreciated: As it stands, and to the best of my knowledge, I think this may be one of the only pieces of information from that era related to the topic of Brian and Subud. And also one of those columns that suggests Brian was working on music outside of Smile and apart from the Beach Boys, music which no one would seem to know anything about.

I agree with the time lag in the dating of this article: although newspapers were more current than the magazines, this looks like a potluck pop-culture gossip column and the collection of information could be anywhere from the previous week to the previous month. Yet I wouldn't go far beyond November 1966 to have an approximate date for the currency of this news item.

Does anyone know who else in the immediate Smile group of friends was into Subud?

[rab2591]

The part that is funny to me is that this very interesting tidbit comes not from NME or the many other musical magazines out there; but from the Deseret News out of Salt Lake City, Utah.

Maybe I need to read more into my LLVS book, but I don't recall anything about the Subud in there. Also, if those close to Brian during this time knew of this religion, why hasn't it been talked about more in relation to SMiLE? Why didn't Priore talk about it in his book? Or Carlin? Or White? (maybe it was and I looked over it)

Just seems odd that if Brian was practicing it, and it was inspiring him to write music - you think we'd hear about it in a place other than the Deseret News. Which leads me to wonder where they got this information to begin with.

*definitely not implying I don't believe it....as AGD said, a reliable source told him it is true; but why is it so secret? Or does it just not matter that much?

[guitarfool2002]

The part that is funny to me is that this very interesting tidbit comes not from NME or the many other musical magazines out there; but from the Deseret News out of Salt Lake City, Utah.

Maybe I need to read more into my LLVS book, but I don't recall anything about the Subud in there. Also, if those close to Brian during this time knew of this religion, why hasn't it been talked about more in relation to SMiLE? Why didn't Priore talk about it in his book? Or Carlin? Or White? (maybe it was and I looked over it)

Just seems odd that if Brian was practicing it, and it was inspiring him to write music - you think we'd hear about it in a place other than the Deseret News. Which leads me to wonder where they got this information to begin with.

*definitely not implying I don't believe it....as AGD said, a reliable source told him it is true; but why is it so secret? Or does it just not matter that much?

The topic of Brian and Subud has been discussed on other Smile boards and topics since before BWPS, so it was an issue which has been on the table but for some unknown reason - unknown to us on the outside looking in at least - none of the "authorities" on Brian and Smile have touched this one in an official capacity. I don't understand.

I wish there were more audio evidence we could point to as we can the tape where the word "Latihan" is mentioned, because we don't actually hear Brian himself mention anything, rather Van Dyke and Anderle seem to be the ones in the know. Then along comes this article specifically stating Brian was working on music for Subud.

We now have a news report stating this as a fact: Looking forward, I think more questions need to be asked to the principle players involved in all this. Or, if those officially researching for various projects knew about Subud, why wasn't it brought out earlier?

[OBLiO]

But with the news article being dated Dec. 16th, and the almost always, delay in reporting of such tidbuts, it would seem his foray into Subud was more likely to have been in October or November?

Yeah hard to say how long he was into it.

Or, if those officially researching for various projects knew about Subud, why wasn't it brought out earlier?

but why is it so secret? Or does it just not matter that much?

Could be a private matter... also thinking of Brian worried about the word "God" being in the title of God Only Knows... not sure

[ESQ Editor]

http://www.goldminemag.com/article/true-5-star-albums-the-beach-boys-pet-sounds