How much of SMiLE would have been instrumental?

[jonjameshall]

HI All,

I'm starting to think that many of the tracks that we think were incomplete were never meant to have vocals. that a good portion of SMiLE 1967 was instrumental.

I know sources are spurious at best and substances can cloud the mind (and that's just us!) but reading the DP 2004 SMilE book I cant help but wonder just how much of the stuff would never have had lyrics. CIFOTM for example was a new lyric for 2004, as was IBH? and they just don't seem to fit in the way that Brian's melody worked back then?

Am I missing something?

J xxx

[Andrew G. Doe]

HI All,

I'm starting to think that many of the tracks that we think were incomplete were never meant to have vocals. that a good portion of SMiLE 1967 was instrumental.

I know sources are spurious at best and substances can cloud the mind (and that's just us!) but reading the DP 2004 SMilE book I cant help but wonder just how much of the stuff would never have had lyrics. CIFOTM for example was a new lyric for 2004, as was IBH? and they just don't seem to fit in the way that Brian's melody worked back then?

Am I missing something?

J xxx

Reasonable question... I'll see that and raise you the fact that DP said "Worms" was complete, yet the 2004 lyrics date from 1966 and fit perfectly.

[The Shift]

Didn't Al deny that that was Worms for the GVs box set tho'?  He was right about this box set!

[jonjameshall]

I didn't say all of it would be instrumental and I dont want to take what DP says verbatim, but some of the stuff just sounds like the vocals were added for the sake of it. Im not convinced by "roll plymouth rock" -  it just doesnt sound right to my ears.

I really think we might be chasing ghosts though, perhaps all these years spent with the bootlegs have scuppered my appreciation somewhat...

[Roger Ryan]

I didn't say all of it would be instrumental and I dont want to take what DP says verbatim, but some of the stuff just sounds like the vocals were added for the sake of it. Im not convinced by "roll plymouth rock" -  it just doesnt sound right to my ears.

I really think we might be chasing ghosts though, perhaps all these years spent with the bootlegs have scuppered my appreciation somewhat...

You can't get anymore accurate than "Roll Plymouth Rock" at recreating what the Beach Boys version may have sounded like (apart from the previously finished tracks). The song structure is identical to the rough mixes (which feature some of the vocals in place), plus you get the "Bicycle Rider" chorus and the verse melody (w/ vintage lyrics) as remembered by Brian. If it doesn't sound right to your ears...well, you're in good company because it apparently didn't sound right to Brian Douglas Wilson either which is why it remained incomplete and/or unreleased for 37 years!

The fact that Brian has gone on record saying that a lot of the stuff he was coming up didn't seem to work for vocals is a pretty compelling reason for SMiLE not to be finished as a Beach Boys album. Of course, he could have simply been talking about "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" and using that as an excuse. I think you're right that listening to the instrumental tracks for so long can make a "completed" song seem wrong. Personally, I think all the new lyrics fit quite well and am very happy to have a finished song like "In Blue Hawaii" to listen to instead of just "I Love To Say Da Da".

[pixletwin]

Ditto Roger. I haven't heard anything in the SMiLE boots that sounded as though they were instrumentals. They are not like past Brian Instrumentals where the melody was compelling enough on it's own and the arrangement strong enough to live without vocals being added. With everything I have heard from the SMiLE boots, they have an incomplete feel to them (at least to me).

[Bicyclerider]

The idea that a lot of Smile tracks were not to have vocals comes from DP's contention that Brian had essentially finished Smile, therefore those instrumental tracks on boot were never destined to have vocals.

The one track (besides the Elements) which I thought might have been just an instrumental but was dropped from the track list, Holidays, I'm  not sure about since it got lyrics and vocals on BWPS.

 

[guitarfool2002]

Having a fully produced instrumental backing track ready for lyrics and/or melody in some cases was Brian's working method on certain songs since 1964, including California Girls and Good Vibrations. So if he had never finished California Girls, and we had access to one of the early mixdowns from the studio sessions, the song did not have a title as Brian slated it in the control room, yet that backing track could stand alone as an instrumental. But obviously the next part of the process was adding vocals with lyrics, so it is the song we now know as California Girls.

There is simply no way to tell what was to have lyrics and/or lead vocals if there is nothing to confirm or deny either way, and it becomes a debate about whose speculation is more informed than another. With "Worms", it was confirmed that Frank Holmes worked on his imagery from lyrics written for that song, so that's a definite. Holidays? Look? Who knows.

[jonjameshall]

I was going on the lyrics that VDP was asked to write specifically for SMiLE 2004, in DP's book he talks about being asked to write parts in 2004 for tracksthat he didnt in 1967. My thinking was that if he didnt have them by the time the project was aborted in 1967 then there's a strong chance that they were not required. I guess it boils down to how complete you think SMiLE was/is or if Brian was under pressure to fill the 2004 version with lyrics?

[guitarfool2002]

I was going on the lyrics that VDP was asked to write specifically for SMiLE 2004, in DP's book he talks about being asked to write parts in 2004 for tracksthat he didnt in 1967. My thinking was that if he didnt have them by the time the project was aborted in 1967 then there's a strong chance that they were not required. I guess it boils down to how complete you think SMiLE was/is or if Brian was under pressure to fill the 2004 version with lyrics?

Remember Van Dyke walked away from the project in early 1967, so consider that tracks which he would have worked on, possibly, never got to that stage after he left. And Brian's focus shifted considerably as well, to the point where he was recording a whole grouping of "Heroes And Villains" fragments that were scattered all over at session after session, and he never really patched those together either, so they remain fragments.

I don't think there was "pressure" to add lyrics to anything they didn't want to add lyrics to in 2003-04, but again it goes back to the time Van Dyke walked away from Smile for good, leaving that next step of the process unfinished.

[onkster]

It's a very hard thing to guess with Brian material: many tracks we know with great familiarity as vocal tracks work spectacularly well as instrumentals (case in point: Let Him Run Wild).

And we of course know of a few that ended up as instrumentals despite having had lyrics and melody written for them (case in point: Pet Sounds--or am I thinking of Let's Go Away for Awhile? Did lyrics ever reach the collector's world from those?)

My guess would be: there would have been 2-3 tracks as instrumentals, but no more, as it would throw off the balance. Compare to other BB albums: same deal, eh?

[Andrew G. Doe]

And we of course know of a few that ended up as instrumentals despite having had lyrics and melody written for them (case in point: Pet Sounds--or am I thinking of Let's Go Away for Awhile? Did lyrics ever reach the collector's world from those?)

Nope, 'cause none were ever written.

[Mahalo]

What about Summer Means New Love?....

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Holiday (version 1966) sounds pretty complete to me, but I don't think that it was necessarily considered to be an album track. It seems sort of like the Trombone Dixie of the early tracks. And while I do like the 2004 version with lyrics, I should say that it's a bit unsatisfying that Brian is simply singing over the horn melody that's already in the song. This wasn't really a common trait for Beach Boys songs (at least not off the top of my head).

Of the 12-song Capitol list, only one track (The Elements) looked like it was heading in the "instrumental" category, which is typically on par with a lot of Beach Boys album (save for Surfin' USA).

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Holiday (version 1966) sounds pretty complete to me, but I don't think that it was necessarily considered to be an album track. It seems sort of like the Trombone Dixie of the early tracks. And while I do like the 2004 version with lyrics, I should say that it's a bit unsatisfying that Brian is simply singing over the horn melody that's already in the song. This wasn't really a common trait for Beach Boys songs (at least not off the top of my head).

Of the 12-song Capitol list, only one track (The Elements) looked like it was heading in the "instrumental" category, which is typically on par with a lot of Beach Boys album (save for Surfin' USA).

Don't forget 'Look/I Ran'. I know there was a vocal session for it, although it's never turned up. I think that it 'may' have been intended for SMiLE very early on, but was quickly cast aside.

[B-Rex]

Look, Holidays, Dada and Worms/RPR have a backing track sound to them.  They have no melody for long stretches, where a lead vocal would reside, plainly showing they were meant to have lyrics.  They do all work extremely well with lead vocals in 2004, and as stated, verses had been written for Worms/RPR or whatever you want to call it.  I do hope that Wee Helper is on to something with Al's quote about Worms.  Worms sounds like a good working title for an earth element, which apparently morphed into Fall Breaks with a little help from MOC.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Look, Holidays, Dada and Worms/RPR have a backing track sound to them.  They have no melody for long stretches, where a lead vocal would reside, plainly showing they were meant to have lyrics. 

Like I said, I hear a pretty strong melodic line throughout Holidays. It's so strong, in fact, that Brian merely replicates it for his vocal line in the 2004 version.

Look too me sounds more unfinished but it also sounds like something left over from Good Vibrations so I'm not sure on the role it would have played on Smile.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Look too me sounds more unfinished but it also sounds like something left over from Good Vibrations so I'm not sure on the role it would have played on Smile.

'Look/I Ran' was recorded before 'GV' was completely finished. It sounds to me like Brian took from 'Look' to help him finish 'GV'.

[rab2591]

Look too me sounds more unfinished but it also sounds like something left over from Good Vibrations so I'm not sure on the role it would have played on Smile.

'Look/I Ran' was recorded before 'GV' was completely finished. It sounds to me like Brian took from 'Look' to help him finish 'GV'.

Anything specific in either track that would support this? Or is it just the overall mood of the track?

I remember hearing that either Look or CIFOTM had parts (or "feels") of GV in them....I have never been able to pinpoint what parts those are - and I have listened for them.

[hypehat]

The final harmonies in GV correspond, sorta, with the instrumental chorus in 'Song For Children' The na-na-na-na, na-na-naaa riff?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

The final harmonies in GV correspond, sorta, with the instrumental chorus in 'Song For Children' The na-na-na-na, na-na-naaa riff?

Exactly.

[rab2591]

The final harmonies in GV correspond, sorta, with the instrumental chorus in 'Song For Children' The na-na-na-na, na-na-naaa riff?

Ha! Thanks! I finally hear it.

[Runaways]

Look, Holidays, Dada and Worms/RPR have a backing track sound to them.  They have no melody for long stretches, where a lead vocal would reside, plainly showing they were meant to have lyrics. 

Like I said, I hear a pretty strong melodic line throughout Holidays. It's so strong, in fact, that Brian merely replicates it for his vocal line in the 2004 version.

Look too me sounds more unfinished but it also sounds like something left over from Good Vibrations so I'm not sure on the role it would have played on Smile.

I think it's odd to think holidays would be an instrumental, yeah there's a melodic line by a clarinet, kinda used in exactly the same way as "I'm waiting for the day".  Brian did that a lot. 

[Chris Brown]

Look, Holidays, Dada and Worms/RPR have a backing track sound to them.  They have no melody for long stretches, where a lead vocal would reside, plainly showing they were meant to have lyrics. 

Like I said, I hear a pretty strong melodic line throughout Holidays. It's so strong, in fact, that Brian merely replicates it for his vocal line in the 2004 version.

Look too me sounds more unfinished but it also sounds like something left over from Good Vibrations so I'm not sure on the role it would have played on Smile.

I think it's odd to think holidays would be an instrumental, yeah there's a melodic line by a clarinet, kinda used in exactly the same way as "I'm waiting for the day".  Brian did that a lot. 

I wouldn't say he did it a lot, but that track is the biggest (and most recent) precedent that immediately springs to mind.  Even on the intro section of "Holidays" (and the repeat of it that was later filled in with the pirate rap), there's a little melody in there too.  It's not conclusive evidence that the track was intended to be instrumental, but out of all the tracks, I'd say it's the most likely candidate for that very reason.

I think "Look" works pretty well as an instrumental as well (though not quite as well as "Holidays"), but the vocal session pretty much negates the possibility that it was intended as an instrumental, along with the fact that it doesn't appear on the December track list.

[Runaways]

Cabinessence does the same thing with an instrument playing the vocal melody. 

Look sounds more like an instrumental to me than Holidays.  Holidays sounds so much like a wilson backing track.  Musically there's usually more going on in brian's instrumentals.  I don't think the melody on holidays works as well as just an instrumental too.  I feel like if it was supposed to be one, then i would have been one in 04