SMiLE release thoughts from a returnee and some questions for the scholars

[bgas]

My Vegetables point was supposed to mean that he and Brian didn't actually see eye to eye on the humour stuff - fire hats, vege-tables, goofing off around the recording studio. I think VDP (not unreasonably) would have wanted Brian to finish things like Cabin Essence instead of gathering around the mic and joking about. He always seems kinda awkward in those situations, which is obviously just my take on what I can hear.

This is a good point, I think. 
Different senses of humor brought on by different ways of being brought up?  Brian and family had a  west Coast somewhat suburban upbringing.
Van Dyke was southern/eastern/ anda child actor correct? So maybe a bit more "grown-up?" at an early age, and less into the self-deprecating humor brian had.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

My Vegetables point was supposed to mean that he and Brian didn't actually see eye to eye on the humour stuff - fire hats, vege-tables, goofing off around the recording studio. I think VDP (not unreasonably) would have wanted Brian to finish things like Cabin Essence instead of gathering around the mic and joking about. He always seems kinda awkward in those situations, which is obviously just my take on what I can hear.

This is a good point, I think. 
Different senses of humor brought on by different ways of being brought up?  Brian and family had a  west Coast somewhat suburban upbringing.
Van Dyke was southern/eastern/ anda child actor correct? So maybe a bit more "grown-up?" at an early age, and less into the self-deprecating humor brian had.

This brings to mind the so-called 'SMiLE era party', where Jules Siegel, Brian, Van Dyke, Vosse and a few others are playing a game of 'lifeboat'. At one point early on, Van Dyke suggests to 'veto the whole scene', which I gather to mean he has zero interest in playing along.

[Dan Lega]

Sorry, somehow I posted something in the wrong thread -- so I deleted it.

[Dunderhead]

I always thought it was pretty clear that Wonderful is about a girl growing up and hitting puberty-'God reached softly and moved her body'; 'through the recess, the chalk and numbers';   and losing her virginity-'A Boy bumped into her Wonderful'. And 'lost it all to a non believer'-She lost her virginity so someone who wasn't as pure as she was, who didn't share her ideals.

I actually don't think its clear at all. That theory doesn't have any basis other than intuition. You've assumed that's what the song is about, but there's no concrete reason to think "it"=virginity or having your body "moved"=puberty. Can we say that with any certainty? I don't think so, I think it's grounded in certain assumptions.

You have to consider what "through the recess, the chalk and numbers" means, in the "it's just a girl being deflowed" interpretation, how do you account for that line? What does it mean in that context? Is the recess her vagina, that the boy must pass through to bump into her? In that case what are the chalk and numbers?

"Farther down the path was a mystery"
"Through the recess, the chalk and numbers"
"a boy bumped into her..."

So how does the second line fit it? Is it tied to the first line, saying that to get to the "mystery" you first need to go through the recess/chalk/numbers. How can you interpret that? This reading is really tantalizing because passing through a "recess" makes sense, but its hard to know how you pass through "the chalk" and the "numbers". There are cliffs and caves and tunnels of chalk, and "numbers" could mean "people". Do you think these things represent some type of challenges that must be overcome, some type of journey in the metaphysical sense that we all pass through?

Or is it saying that the boy bumped into her "through" the recess/chalk/numbers? What could that mean, that the recess/chalk/numbers were some type of barrier that the "boy" needed to get through in order to reach the girl? Or could it mean that he bumped into her indirectly, "through" those things, that by them she experienced his presence. In that case we could read "he" as being God, with the line saying perhaps, through the mundane everyday things we experience we feel God's presence. This is actually so far my favored interpretation, it seems to make the most sense of any of the possibilities we have.


And what about "she knew how to gather the forest"? How does that fit into the virginity thing? Even if you stick with that strict interpretation that this song is only a love song, you must consider that line and place it in the context of your interpretation. You must account for it, otherwise you're willfully ignoring what the song actually says, picking and choosing the parts you want to give primacy too, which is a dishonest mode of analysis.
So what does it mean to gather the forest? To me that brings to mind the image of Snow White or some other Disney character doing chores with the help of animals. That's just the image that it gives me. If anyone has anything better, let me know.

I just think that going out of your way to do crazy, wild interpretations is one thing, but what we're talking about here is just actually looking at the actual lines of the song and trying to sort them out. What some of you want to do is to just wave away parts that don't obviously fit into the common interpretation, and you want to read some lines in an overly simplified manner without really paying attention to what they actually say, like in I'm In Great Shape.

[Jay]

Perhaps "the path was a mystery" refers to life itself? For a teenager, the path of life is indeed a mystery. Perhaps "recess" and "chalk" are nothing more than references to school? It is only after you go through the "chalk " and "numbers" that you reach a legal age of boys being allowed to bump into you. 

If SMiLE as a whole is "Americana personified", then I tend to think that Wonderful is "innocence personified".

[Dunderhead]

Perhaps "the path was a mystery" refers to life itself? For a teenager, the path of life is indeed a mystery. Perhaps "recess" and "chalk" are nothing more than references to school? It is only after you go through the "chalk " and "numbers" that you reach a legal age of boys being allowed to bump into you. 

If SMiLE as a whole is "Americana personified", then I tend to think that Wonderful is "innocence personified".

Just one slight problem with that that struck me,
why is it THE recess and not recesses? Honestly if you have to go through 15 years of school to get to "the mystery", and "recess" is only supposed to refer to the thing you do at school, would you have to go through a lot of them? I dunno about you guys but when I was in grade school we had recess twice a day.
The fact that it's singular is a good sign that there is something going on more in this song.

[rab2591]

If we are really going to examine these lyrics we could say that Brian's humor had something to do with the "she knew how to gather the forest" line - "Hey Parks, write a lyric that will confuse the hell out of everyone trying to interpret it." - highly unlikely, but if we are going to look into every possibility, this is one.

To me, 'Wonderful' is a matured version of any previous Beach Boys song - It is a girl wanting to get independence (Fun Fun Fun). It is a girl who travels down a path and "bumps" into a boy (Don't Worry Baby). It is just Brian's baroque pop homage to previous Beach Boys songs (regarding love) - while at the same time saying "We've grown up."

Excerpt regarding the song 'Wonderful' from a Stylus magazine article about SMiLE by Ed Howard

One popular line of thought runs that the song is a literal (well, as close to literal as Parks ever got at this point) narrative about the loss of virginity, with the line “the boy bumped into her wonderful” being a fey reference to sex. Likewise, “God moved softly and moved her body” could be an interpretation of the onset of puberty, making the song about growing up and getting laid. Regardless of whether the thread of innocence in the song implies sexuality or not -- I for one think it does -- there is a definite spiritual undertone throughout, a sense that God, religion, and family can provide a sanctuary from the uncertainty of the future. The girl in the story (for “Wonderful,” more than any other song on Smile, is a story) is “never known as a non-believer,” and she starts safe and contented as a child, “loving her mother and father,” but somewhere down the line in the “mystery” of the future, she loses “it all to a non-believer.” Ultimately, of course, redemption comes in the form of her parents, who still love her; she abandons the non-believing boy who stole her virginity (and maybe got her pregnant, too?) and soldiers on in spite of her troubles.

Part I: http://www.stylusmagazine.com/feature.php?ID=59
Part II: http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/smile-the-definitive-lost-album-part-two.htm

[hypehat]

Hey, you know what I did? I looked up what VDP said in Priore's book!

"Musically, it's entirely different from anything else [in relation to the other matierial], and i thought that was an oppurtunity to begin a love song. I remember Brian pressing me about the relationship between the mother and the father and the child. I really think he was thinking about his own personal progession from chlldhood. Now I thought, once we had gotten "Heroes & Villains done, we might have seen a boy/girl song emerge, other than Wonderful... But i never found an oppurtunity to pursue it with the music I was given."
"It wasn't that we were trying to climb an ivory tower or get away from boy-meets-girl.... I always believe that it would be wonderful to write the love song, like the great American novel, something that doesn't seem to have been written quite yet."

So it's about boys and girls. And ascribing sexual metaphors to absolutely everything is lazy criticism. 'Boy bumped into her 'wonderful'' i can see. Through the 'recess' is you searching for cheap inneundo.

And you know why it's 'recess' and not 'recesses'? 'Recesses' doesn't scan with the melody, sounds stupid, and everyone gets the damn reference with the singular anyway. Somethings are really just that simple. Go get some fresh air or something.

[Roger Ryan]

There's no question that "recess" is a play-on-words evoking both a crevice and free-time for children at school. "Chalk and numbers" is there to make sure you don't miss the second meaning.

Perhaps this has been suggested before, but reading the opening line "She belongs there left with her liberty" again, I was struck that perhaps "she" is America. Certainly, Parks is writing about a boy-girl relationship, but maybe he's using that as a metaphor for the loss of innocence in the U.S. The ideal of America, or perhaps freedom itself, is what the boy bumps into. But that freedom becomes mishandled. The "non-believer" represents those who wish to put limits on freedom, political freedom or freedom of expression. But like the idea in "Surf's Up" that the children will triumph over the collapsing traditions of their parents, America will return with her liberty intact if it can rediscover its innocence.

[bossaroo]

"Through the recess, the chalk and numbers"

maybe i'm crazy... but could this possibly refer to birth control pills?

[The Heartical Don]

"Through the recess, the chalk and numbers"

maybe i'm crazy... but could this possibly refer to birth control pills?

You are crazy 

[A Million Units In Jan!]

What some of you want to do is to just wave away parts that don't obviously fit into the common interpretation, and you want to read some lines in an overly simplified manner without really paying attention to what they actually say, like in I'm In Great Shape.

And what I think you want to do is try and argue with everybody's view point. I told you that the lyrics to me are about a girl growing up, plain and simple. And you told me I was wrong. So from now on, I guess when I 'think' a song is about something, I'll get your OK first. I mean, I get your schtick-you're one of the 'deep thinkers' on here, the ones that want to find deep meanings in everything, even if there aren't any. It's cute, to a point. Nah, not really.

[Cam Mott]

My opinon is that even Van DYke would have trouble explaining what he meant because he meant everything and nothing by free verse. I have a feeling he riffed and left us to find our meaning if any.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Just to get back to the very first post for a moment...

When we say Surf's Up Pt. 2, do we mean the music for the second half of the song? The second movement?

Personally, I can't fathom why it would have never been recorded? The music for almost all of the major pieces appeared to be complete and while Brian went on to revise some of the songs, all the vocals were overdubbed onto songs that we could pretty much call complete. Why, then, would Surf's Up (clearly an important track to Brian) be left unrecorded and why would the boys be putting vocals on a song that was incomplete?

[Dunderhead]

 
Seriously guys, you're just as bad as I am. You're the ones getting pissed off that someone is, in your opinion, over analyzing lyrics on a message board.

[juggler]

Just to get back to the very first post for a moment...

When we say Surf's Up Pt. 2, do we mean the music for the second half of the song? The second movement?

Personally, I can't fathom why it would have never been recorded? The music for almost all of the major pieces appeared to be complete and while Brian went on to revise some of the songs, all the vocals were overdubbed onto songs that we could pretty much call complete. Why, then, would Surf's Up (clearly an important track to Brian) be left unrecorded and why would the boys be putting vocals on a song that was incomplete?

Yes, when folks around here talk about "Surf's Up Part 2," they mean a studio instrumental track for the final two minutes or so of the song (i.e., corresponding to the lyrics, "Dove-nested towers..." onward).  It'll be a dream come true for diehard fans if this piece has finally been located.

[Chris Brown]

Just to get back to the very first post for a moment...

When we say Surf's Up Pt. 2, do we mean the music for the second half of the song? The second movement?

Personally, I can't fathom why it would have never been recorded? The music for almost all of the major pieces appeared to be complete and while Brian went on to revise some of the songs, all the vocals were overdubbed onto songs that we could pretty much call complete. Why, then, would Surf's Up (clearly an important track to Brian) be left unrecorded and why would the boys be putting vocals on a song that was incomplete?

Yes, when folks around here talk about "Surf's Up Part 2," they mean a studio instrumental track for the final two minutes or so of the song (i.e., corresponding to the lyrics, "Dove-nested towers..." onward).  It'll be a dream come true for diehard fans if this piece has finally been located.

Indeed it would be.

It would seem strange that Brian never recorded anything for it, but my guess has always been that he intended to come back to it later (after the new year, perhaps), but once his primary objective became finding a single, the album tracks took a back seat.  Finishing "Surf's Up" became secondary to getting the next single finished and released.  Of course, we all know how that turned out and what it meant for the album as a whole.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Just to get back to the very first post for a moment...

When we say Surf's Up Pt. 2, do we mean the music for the second half of the song? The second movement?

Personally, I can't fathom why it would have never been recorded? The music for almost all of the major pieces appeared to be complete and while Brian went on to revise some of the songs, all the vocals were overdubbed onto songs that we could pretty much call complete. Why, then, would Surf's Up (clearly an important track to Brian) be left unrecorded and why would the boys be putting vocals on a song that was incomplete?

Yes, when folks around here talk about "Surf's Up Part 2," they mean a studio instrumental track for the final two minutes or so of the song (i.e., corresponding to the lyrics, "Dove-nested towers..." onward).  It'll be a dream come true for diehard fans if this piece has finally been located.

Indeed it would be.

It would seem strange that Brian never recorded anything for it, but my guess has always been that he intended to come back to it later (after the new year, perhaps), but once his primary objective became finding a single, the album tracks took a back seat.  Finishing "Surf's Up" became secondary to getting the next single finished and released.  Of course, we all know how that turned out and what it meant for the album as a whole.

Certainly, that's possible.

But I just don't understand. According to AGD's site, there were three full sessions for Surf's Up before a vocal session, which also included Cabin Essence, Wonderful, and Surf's Up (incidentally, what happened to these December 15th recordings? And I apologize for asking because surely this has been asked and answered repeatedly). I find it difficult to believe that all that would happen and we'd only end up with half a song. After all, this all seemed to be happening at a time when Brian was voracious in the studio and, also, quite focused. The idea that he put it aside, while being indeed a possibility, doesn't quite jive with everything that was going on.

But, then again, there's also the fact that so much has been released through boots and that hasn't.

But, then again, it was years before we knew there was music for I'm in Great Shape that wasn't I Want To Be Around/Friday Night.

[Jay]

Perhaps this has been suggested before, but reading the opening line "She belongs there left with her liberty" again, I was struck that perhaps "she" is America. Certainly, Parks is writing about a boy-girl relationship, but maybe he's using that as a metaphor for the loss of innocence in the U.S. The ideal of America, or perhaps freedom itself, is what the boy bumps into. But that freedom becomes mishandled. The "non-believer" represents those who wish to put limits on freedom, political freedom or freedom of expression. But like the idea in "Surf's Up" that the children will triumph over the collapsing traditions of their parents, America will return with her liberty intact if it can rediscover its innocence.

That's brilliant!  I never made the connection myself, but now it seems so glaringly obvious. Good catch. 

[drbeachboy]

Everyone, check out this image: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=6358897&postcount=35

The poster claims that these are real. Enjoy!

[Jeff]

Everyone, check out this image: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=6358897&postcount=35

The poster claims that these are real. Enjoy!

Anything that shows DaDa as water can't really be real.  Not in the sense of what would have been.

[Jay]

Seriously guys, you're just as bad as I am. You're the ones getting pissed off that someone is, in your opinion, over analyzing lyrics on a message board.

I suspect that if VDP were a member of this board, or reading our comments, he would be amused and intrigued. I don't *think* that he would be overly annoyed or angry. Hell, he might gain an insight or two himself and even agree with us.  Or at least see our point(s) about certain lyrics.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

There's no question that "recess" is a play-on-words evoking both a crevice and free-time for children at school. "Chalk and numbers" is there to make sure you don't miss the second meaning.

Perhaps this has been suggested before, but reading the opening line "She belongs there left with her liberty" again, I was struck that perhaps "she" is America. Certainly, Parks is writing about a boy-girl relationship, but maybe he's using that as a metaphor for the loss of innocence in the U.S. The ideal of America, or perhaps freedom itself, is what the boy bumps into. But that freedom becomes mishandled. The "non-believer" represents those who wish to put limits on freedom, political freedom or freedom of expression. But like the idea in "Surf's Up" that the children will triumph over the collapsing traditions of their parents, America will return with her liberty intact if it can rediscover its innocence.

Interesting observation but it doesn't quite ring true with several of the album's thematic concerns. In the words of Van Dyke Parks: "There was an obsession to reject anything that smacked of patriotism." This is certainly the case in several songs that work to undermine traditional American assumptions of manifest destiny. Do You Like Worms? calls attention to the displacement and ultimate destruction of Native American society, while Cabin Essence uncovers (and I use that word on purpose) the repressed history of Asian workers who helped bring white Easterners to the West (or the frontier) to make the fortune that said Asians were themselves kept from having. The lyrics typically challenge the conception of an "American ideal" rather than support it. I think Wonderful does fit in here -- we've been treated to Plymouth Rock, with DYLW? which puts us squarely in the location and time period of the height of New England Puritanism. Indeed, she belongs there, in the Puritan dream of the city upon a hill, treated to liberty, but also repressed sexuality. Again, Parks and Wilson challenge this by having the girl encounter someone who is sexually open. Instead of rejecting her religious beliefs, she simply revises them to account for her new found sexuality.

[bgas]

Everyone, check out this image: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=6358897&postcount=35

The poster claims that these are real. Enjoy!

Yeah, they look like Capitol labels from what, 2005?  
Nice of him to post his fakes, tho...

Here's a Wild Honey for comparison:  

[Chris Moise]

When we say Surf's Up Pt. 2, do we mean the music for the second half of the song? The second movement?

Personally, I can't fathom why it would have never been recorded? The music for almost all of the major pieces appeared to be complete and while Brian went on to revise some of the songs, all the vocals were overdubbed onto songs that we could pretty much call complete. Why, then, would Surf's Up (clearly an important track to Brian) be left unrecorded and why would the boys be putting vocals on a song that was incomplete?

Well, the 23 Jan. 1967 Surf's Up tracking session that has never turned up anywhere. It wasn't in the vault in 1971 when Desper was working on Surf's Up and it hasn't turned up since unless something changed recently. AFAIK we don't know if he was re-recording Part 1 or a backing track for the 2nd half of the song. We do know it was for Surf's Up and the collection of instruments at the session doesn't match any other Smile session in circulation. There was another session that night but I don't think it is known if it was for Surf's Up or something else. I'm sure c-man and others here have more info..