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Author Topic: Mike Love wanted the Beach Boys to finish SMiLE  (Read 34004 times)
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« Reply #150 on: January 26, 2011, 05:40:14 AM »


The 'Look' vocal melody is an exception, that totally works. Just my .02.

That melody is vintage too so might be why you like it!

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« Reply #151 on: January 26, 2011, 09:24:37 AM »

Addressing Anderle and Vosse possibly having dubs, or acetates, or rough mixes, or whatever - no one in that inner circle that I'm aware of - publicly, that is - had ever hinted that they have anything of the sort. Vosse and Anderle have, however, said in numerous interviews and comments how they would ask Brian to play them dubs and rough mixes of certain sections of Smile, which implies they never owned them personally.

This makes sense - even today an artist usually does not hand out random copies of songs being planned for a release to friends or business associates unless they want it to leak online and spoil the surprise.

Of course that's definitely not a standard practice! But I don't think Brian would be giving out dubs and mixes to people other than those directly involved in the music. That explains why those who have confirmed copies of 1966-67 dubs are all band members or the ex-wife of the co-creator! Cheesy

Acetates are crap - they're meant to be played 2 or 3 times as a reference, they're not stable and the surface literally peels off the plate if the grooves haven't been worn down by the wrong choice of needles to play them.

If no one dubbed or transferred the Durrie Parks acetates by now, whether they contain the Holy Grail or the emptiness of Al Capone's vault as discovered by Geraldo Rivera, shame on whoever could have made that call years ago.  Roll Eyes

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« Reply #152 on: January 26, 2011, 10:03:45 AM »

Don't know about Anderle but Siegel had had acetates but they were stolen so maybe they could turn up somewhere someday.

Vosse thought he had mementos at this Mom's house but I seem to remember that he no longer had acetates for some reason. Hopefully somebody asked Vosse about it during the making of BD docu.

I wonder if anyone has ever asked the Derek Taylor family if they have anything?
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« Reply #153 on: January 26, 2011, 10:15:35 AM »

Do you remember maybe 6 years ago or so, some of Vosse's Smile-era memorabilia was up for auction? There was specifically a child's lunch bag, or something similar, which Brian had written a memo on, which was up for sale, and maybe a few other items similar in nature with Brian's handwriting. I had copies and information but it was lost in a PC mishap I had soon after and never showed up again (damn!).

Is there any more information about that Vosse auction or those items? I don't remember any actual recordings, acetates, tracklists, etc.

Jules Seigel had acetates? For real??? I can't doubt it because I have no idea, BUT... it's a stretch. He was only around for a short time. Who knows.

You know what he's doing now, right? If not search and be prepared... Smiley
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« Reply #154 on: January 26, 2011, 11:28:31 AM »

Be prepared ? Doesn't seem too extraordinary according to his Wikipedia entry (the usefulness and truth percentage of Wikipedia is, of course, an issue for another day)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_Siegel
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« Reply #155 on: January 26, 2011, 12:13:20 PM »

Vosse was aware of that and I don't remember but he gave it to the guy or the guy bought it, it was a legit deal as I remember. Vosse was around long enough to have had a recording of the March H&V/H&V Part2 but I don't know that he did.

As I remember, that was Jules memory, that he had recordings but they were stolen or lost in a storage unit ot something unfortunate. He was out in December.
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« Reply #156 on: January 26, 2011, 12:52:59 PM »

Be prepared ? Doesn't seem too extraordinary according to his Wikipedia entry (the usefulness and truth percentage of Wikipedia is, of course, an issue for another day)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_Siegel

I was only joking with the "be prepared" part - he has a YouTube channel where you might expect something related to his rock and roll adventures but he only has posted a video he reviewed about a massage. That's it! Nothing groundbreaking, not even that funny really. I forget where else online I saw him pop up recently.

I find it hard to believe he received any acetates or tape dubs that early in the Smile process, because even Vosse and Anderle didn't have them and they played it like Siegel wasn't in the inner circle.

I also don't think Brian was handing out copies of his music like that especially if you believe the stories about his paranoia that others were "stealing" his Smile ideas, and how that led to him setting up the studio in his house.
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« Reply #157 on: January 26, 2011, 03:31:31 PM »

Do you remember maybe 6 years ago or so, some of Vosse's Smile-era memorabilia was up for auction? There was specifically a child's lunch bag, or something similar, which Brian had written a memo on, which was up for sale, and maybe a few other items similar in nature with Brian's handwriting. I had copies and information but it was lost in a PC mishap I had soon after and never showed up again (damn!).

Is there any more information about that Vosse auction or those items? I don't remember any actual recordings, acetates, tracklists, etc.

Jules Seigel had acetates? For real??? I can't doubt it because I have no idea, BUT... it's a stretch. He was only around for a short time. Who knows.

You know what he's doing now, right? If not search and be prepared... Smiley


Probably not the same auction, but: 
http://entertainment.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=7011&Lot_No=49011
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« Reply #158 on: January 26, 2011, 04:12:11 PM »

Do you remember maybe 6 years ago or so, some of Vosse's Smile-era memorabilia was up for auction? There was specifically a child's lunch bag, or something similar, which Brian had written a memo on, which was up for sale, and maybe a few other items similar in nature with Brian's handwriting. I had copies and information but it was lost in a PC mishap I had soon after and never showed up again (damn!).

Is there any more information about that Vosse auction or those items? I don't remember any actual recordings, acetates, tracklists, etc.

Jules Seigel had acetates? For real??? I can't doubt it because I have no idea, BUT... it's a stretch. He was only around for a short time. Who knows.

You know what he's doing now, right? If not search and be prepared... Smiley


Probably not the same auction, but: 
http://entertainment.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=7011&Lot_No=49011


Wow, great find! That IS the memo to Vosse I remember seeing, and this was at least 2004 (?), if I remember the timing of the earlier auction.

Quite a strange memo to send, isn't it? There must be some insider info coded into what Brian wrote... Smiley

I don't remember the check being included (this auction seems to be from 2009, maybe it's for handwriting comparison purposes), and the Smile mock-up looks like a hatchet job rather than an original (but I digress....).

Thank you again for finding that, I wish i didn't have to log into the auction to see a full size shot!
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« Reply #159 on: January 26, 2011, 04:30:48 PM »

Acetates are crap - they're meant to be played 2 or 3 times as a reference, they're not stable and the surface literally peels off the plate if the grooves haven't been worn down by the wrong choice of needles to play them.

If no one dubbed or transferred the Durrie Parks acetates by now, whether they contain the Holy Grail or the emptiness of Al Capone's vault as discovered by Geraldo Rivera, shame on whoever could have made that call years ago.  Roll Eyes

True but I'm having a hard time thinking of a 60's acetate that was unplayable. Even the trashed 40+ year old Velvet Underground Scepter Studios acetate that turned up on a curb side junk sale is listenable. Noisy as hell but you can easily spot things like alternate vocals, etc. With acetates being mono affairs even the most beat up copies can be greatly improved by "summing to mono" which reduces the volume of the surface noise (which is stereo) by half.

What is so damn fascinating is, by virtue of the medium, we know the acetates will contain vintage 1966/67 mono mixes made by Brian and Chuck. We have all of what, 3 or 4 vintage Smile mixdowns? Expect that number to triple if the acetates were rounded up.

I still can't understand why Brian Wilson, especially while he was knee deep in Smile '04, of all people isn't able to do what is neccessary to acquire them? It's not like they are kept in the Titanic broom closet at the bottom of the sea. Is it possible no one in Brian's organization in 2004 was aware of the acetates? No one thought to ask Al and Bruce if they could listen to them? Even if there was no intention to ever release them you would think they would have been valuable to Brian and VDP while working on Smile in 2004. In a way I think the whole '04 Smile saga closed the door or any archival release or examination of the acetates. Somone should write a Smile article for Mojo or Uncut that mentions the existance of this material. Maybe that would generate enough interest to get the ball rolling?
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« Reply #160 on: January 26, 2011, 05:00:07 PM »

Well, we finally know the final track list for the SMiLE album!
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« Reply #161 on: January 26, 2011, 05:12:08 PM »

What is that a picture of at the top of that memo? Is it a SMiLEing face?
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« Reply #162 on: January 26, 2011, 06:05:37 PM »

Acetates are crap - they're meant to be played 2 or 3 times as a reference, they're not stable and the surface literally peels off the plate if the grooves haven't been worn down by the wrong choice of needles to play them.

If no one dubbed or transferred the Durrie Parks acetates by now, whether they contain the Holy Grail or the emptiness of Al Capone's vault as discovered by Geraldo Rivera, shame on whoever could have made that call years ago.  Roll Eyes

True but I'm having a hard time thinking of a 60's acetate that was unplayable. Even the trashed 40+ year old Velvet Underground Scepter Studios acetate that turned up on a curb side junk sale is listenable. Noisy as hell but you can easily spot things like alternate vocals, etc. With acetates being mono affairs even the most beat up copies can be greatly improved by "summing to mono" which reduces the volume of the surface noise (which is stereo) by half.

What is so damn fascinating is, by virtue of the medium, we know the acetates will contain vintage 1966/67 mono mixes made by Brian and Chuck. We have all of what, 3 or 4 vintage Smile mixdowns? Expect that number to triple if the acetates were rounded up.

I still can't understand why Brian Wilson, especially while he was knee deep in Smile '04, of all people isn't able to do what is neccessary to acquire them? It's not like they are kept in the Titanic broom closet at the bottom of the sea. Is it possible no one in Brian's organization in 2004 was aware of the acetates? No one thought to ask Al and Bruce if they could listen to them? Even if there was no intention to ever release them you would think they would have been valuable to Brian and VDP while working on Smile in 2004. In a way I think the whole '04 Smile saga closed the door or any archival release or examination of the acetates. Somone should write a Smile article for Mojo or Uncut that mentions the existance of this material. Maybe that would generate enough interest to get the ball rolling?

The problem is that acetates like the VU and other trashcan and library finds are not being played over and over - they may be played once to transfer to another medium, and perhaps again if they trade hands. But the acetate material that comes out in trade circles is taken from dubs, and very few plays in between.

Ever hear of "cue burn"? It's what used to happen to 45rpm records as DJ's played them over and over and had to "cue" them up on the player. The grooves at the beginning of records would wear out and you'd notice it on a broadcast. Some old-school DJ's worked only with records, others would transfer a popular record to a tape cartridge (a cart) so they'd simply pop it in when it had to be played and nothing would wear out.

So here were professional broadcast DJ's working with better-quality 50's and 60's vinyl, pro stylus and turntables, and they'd still wear normal records out over time by playing them. Imagine a much cheaper and less stable format with the acetate and no matter what a bootleg sounds like on a compilation, you can't play them too many times before they simply crap out.

I don't know if Bruce or Al would have any motivation at all to contribute to Brian's Smile revival since Bruce was touring with Mike and Al wasn't involved in Smile 2004 at all. They're holding 4 aces close to their vest, if they do have "new" unheard acetates as they have claimed.
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« Reply #163 on: January 26, 2011, 06:09:10 PM »

What is that a picture of at the top of that memo? Is it a SMiLEing face?

I used to have a JPEG of that - if I remember it might be a child's lunchbag which Brian mailed, or one of those silly notes that girls pass around in the 5th grade. I think it's a smiling girl on the bag, but that's from a 6+ years ago memory.
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« Reply #164 on: January 26, 2011, 07:13:57 PM »

I'll be an optimist and say: we know the parks, bruce, and al acetates exist.  Alan Boyd, in his own words, has been "working with Brother Records and Capitol Records to organize, catalog, and preserve the mass of vintage Beach Boys tapes in their archives."   Do you really think that the person employed to document the bands career and put their library and archive into shape hasn't asked the band members themselves what important tapes they might have?  And that those band members would then say lie or refuse access to their own archivist?!  I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the far most likely scenario is that there exist a number of additional smile materials safely copied and locked away (perhaps next to those infamous manson sessions?) in a deep vault miles below the capital tower in the heart of Los Angeles, and awaiting (to be blunt) the passing on of the remaining participants before they will see the light of day.  We know acetates exist.  The incentives to preserve them are huge, the incentives to tell fans about them when they're not going to be released anytime soon anyway: much smaller. 

Just my opinion.   
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« Reply #165 on: January 26, 2011, 07:39:27 PM »

I have said it before and I will say it again. I have been told that 66-67 smile will never see the light of day whilst they are alive, "too many lawsuits". BWPS was purely put together as a LIVE performance and was not a true indication of what the original smile would have been!
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« Reply #166 on: January 26, 2011, 08:08:26 PM »

What is that a picture of at the top of that memo? Is it a SMiLEing face?

I used to have a JPEG of that - if I remember it might be a child's lunchbag which Brian mailed, or one of those silly notes that girls pass around in the 5th grade. I think it's a smiling girl on the bag, but that's from a 6+ years ago memory.

OK. here's the pics, which in 2009 sold for $298.75 which included the buyer's premium; 
The note:


and the address side( it's a folding mailing note) which in the auction showed this side turned 180 degrees: 

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« Reply #167 on: January 26, 2011, 10:45:40 PM »

I have said it before and I will say it again. I have been told that 66-67 smile will never see the light of day whilst they are alive, "too many lawsuits".

Well of course the original 1966/7 Smile will never see release, because it was never close to being the finished article.

The session tapes, now... that's something else entirely. They could be released.
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« Reply #168 on: January 27, 2011, 02:34:24 AM »

What is that a picture of at the top of that memo? Is it a SMiLEing face?

I used to have a JPEG of that - if I remember it might be a child's lunchbag which Brian mailed, or one of those silly notes that girls pass around in the 5th grade. I think it's a smiling girl on the bag, but that's from a 6+ years ago memory.

OK. here's the pics, which in 2009 sold for $298.75 which included the buyer's premium; 
The note:


and the address side( it's a folding mailing note) which in the auction showed this side turned 180 degrees: 



Damn, Brian sure did have a....different sense of humor.
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Roger Ryan
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« Reply #169 on: January 27, 2011, 06:10:39 AM »

Brian wasn't recording and/or mixing things straight to acetate; these low-quality discs had to come from tape sources. There is, of course, the potential for mixes and elements to be found on the acetates that were later wiped from the source tape or recorded over. But it is just as likely that the acetates contain the same unfinished mixes and sections that exist in the tape library, right?

How do we know for sure that the acetates contain complete mono mixdowns not found on tape?

I'm not saying the acetate situation should be ignored, but let's not assume that everything we haven't heard (or think should exist) will be found on the acetates.
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« Reply #170 on: January 27, 2011, 07:23:29 AM »


I'm not saying the acetate situation should be ignored, but let's not assume that everything we haven't heard (or think should exist) will be found on the acetates.

Aww cmon, that's what makes all of this fun. 
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« Reply #171 on: January 27, 2011, 07:30:34 AM »


I'm not saying the acetate situation should be ignored, but let's not assume that everything we haven't heard (or think should exist) will be found on the acetates.

Aww cmon, that's what makes all of this fun. 

It can also be a little heartbreaking too!
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« Reply #172 on: January 27, 2011, 07:52:21 AM »

What is that a picture of at the top of that memo? Is it a SMiLEing face?

I used to have a JPEG of that - if I remember it might be a child's lunchbag which Brian mailed, or one of those silly notes that girls pass around in the 5th grade. I think it's a smiling girl on the bag, but that's from a 6+ years ago memory.

OK. here's the pics, which in 2009 sold for $298.75 which included the buyer's premium; 
The note:


and the address side( it's a folding mailing note) which in the auction showed this side turned 180 degrees: 



Damn, Brian sure did have a....different sense of humor.

I think we all have our own inside jokes with close friends that would make no sense to anyone else.
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« Reply #173 on: January 27, 2011, 12:55:44 PM »

I get that. And it sort of goes along with the whole thing of spirituality and innocence that Brian had going on back then. Still, that girls face is a little creepy.
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« Reply #174 on: January 27, 2011, 02:42:58 PM »

I get that. And it sort of goes along with the whole thing of spirituality and innocence that Brian had going on back then. Still, that girls face is a little creepy.

Shirley you jest?  Isn't that modeled on Maureen's image? 
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