gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
647874 Posts in 25917 Topics by 3699 Members - Latest Member: BigRed June 27, 2019, 01:20:05 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Mike Love wanted the Beach Boys to finish SMiLE  (Read 21756 times)
A Million Units In Jan!
Guest
« Reply #175 on: January 27, 2011, 02:50:38 PM »

I get that. And it sort of goes along with the whole thing of spirituality and innocence that Brian had going on back then. Still, that girls face is a little creepy.

Shirley you jest?  Isn't that modeled on Maureen's image? 

More like Carol Kaye. And don't call me Shirley  Grin
Logged
bgas
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6372


Oh for the good old days


View Profile
« Reply #176 on: January 27, 2011, 02:53:48 PM »

I get that. And it sort of goes along with the whole thing of spirituality and innocence that Brian had going on back then. Still, that girls face is a little creepy.

Shirley you jest?  Isn't that modeled on Maureen's image? 

More like Carol Kaye. And don't call me Shirley  Grin

Oh yeah, you could be right; I get those two confused, since they both claim so much credit for  Brian's successes
Logged

Nothing I post is my opinion, it's all a message from God
Chris Moise
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 192


View Profile
« Reply #177 on: January 28, 2011, 06:37:49 PM »

Brian wasn't recording and/or mixing things straight to acetate; these low-quality discs had to come from tape sources.

Of course, without exception acetates were cut from tape sources.


There is, of course, the potential for mixes and elements to be found on the acetates that were later wiped from the source tape or recorded over. But it is just as likely that the acetates contain the same unfinished mixes and sections that exist in the tape library, right?

Not correct. If it's on an acetate it was cut from a vintage mono mix. Since we can just about count the number of '66 mixes we have on Micky Mouse fingers it's far more likely the acetates contain unheard 1966/7 Brian Wilson mixes. That isn't to say they were *finished* mixes but they will be a more accurate reflection of what Brian had in mind at the time. Consider Old Master Painter...the versions we have from the session tapes have no vocals. The beat up acetate has the DW lead vocal. 'Barnshine' or whatever it's called now is another. Those "...skies are grey" vocals in the fade only exist on that acetate.


How do we know for sure that the acetates contain complete mono mixdowns not found on tape?

Because we don't have but a few mono mixdowns so by default they would have to be something not found on tape. Alan Boyd has posted that there are a bunch of empty tape boxes that contained 1/4" reels of Smile material. It's very likely some of these were pressed to acetate. Things like a 1966 mono mix of Cabinessence, pre-1967 mixdowns of early versions H&V, maybe Worms with unheard vocal overdubs, vintage mono mix of Surf's Up, the possibilities are mind-boggling.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 06:38:50 PM by Chris Moise » Logged
Chris Moise
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 192


View Profile
« Reply #178 on: January 28, 2011, 06:54:03 PM »

Do you really think that the person employed to document the bands career and put their library and archive into shape hasn't asked the band members themselves what important tapes they might have?  And that those band members would then say lie or refuse access to their own archivist?!

Two things:

1) there are acetates of missing Smile material and mixes owned by band members, top tier collectors, ex-wives, etc.

2) very few of these acetates are in Beach Boys tape library.

I have no idea why the acetates haven't been acquired. I do know that Alan Boyd himself has put the call out for Smile acetates on this very site.
Logged
bgas
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6372


Oh for the good old days


View Profile
« Reply #179 on: January 28, 2011, 07:55:38 PM »

Do you really think that the person employed to document the bands career and put their library and archive into shape hasn't asked the band members themselves what important tapes they might have?  And that those band members would then say lie or refuse access to their own archivist?!

Two things:

1) there are acetates of missing Smile material and mixes owned by band members, top tier collectors, ex-wives, etc.

2) very few of these acetates are in Beach Boys tape library.

I have no idea why the acetates haven't been acquired. I do know that Alan Boyd himself has put the call out for Smile acetates on this very site.


I suppose one reason some of the "calls from Alan Boyd" haven't been answered is that us collectors know a coupla things.
The acetates are worth more if they don't get copied and distributed. 
What would I rather have?  An acetate that NOT ONE OTHER PERSON HAS, or one that I own, but I've let everybody else have a copy.
That's easy...
Logged

Nothing I post is my opinion, it's all a message from God
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
The Dr. of Wilsonomics
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 10692


🍦🍦My daughter and I -23 Dec 2018 ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #180 on: January 28, 2011, 08:16:36 PM »

I have a very strong suspicion that has nothing to do with it.
Logged

RIP Alexa Lestage (8 May 1995- 10 June 2018) .

https://www.gofundme.com/help-support-the-jurkowlaniecs

Quote
Lady:”Sir why you are drowning my son!!! “
Guy:“Maa’m, the ad clearly reads...SEA horse rides for a dollar “
Chris Moise
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 192


View Profile
« Reply #181 on: January 28, 2011, 08:40:24 PM »

I suppose one reason some of the "calls from Alan Boyd" haven't been answered is that us collectors know a coupla things.
The acetates are worth more if they don't get copied and distributed. 
What would I rather have?  An acetate that NOT ONE OTHER PERSON HAS, or one that I own, but I've let everybody else have a copy.

Wha? I figured it was obvious but I was meant PURCHASE the acetates from collectors. Not sure why you would think anyone expected a collector to donate unheard Smile material for the cause. When the record company acquires unheard material it's implicit that in involves an exchange of money.
Logged
Runaways
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2008


View Profile
« Reply #182 on: January 28, 2011, 09:49:57 PM »

Do you really think that the person employed to document the bands career and put their library and archive into shape hasn't asked the band members themselves what important tapes they might have?  And that those band members would then say lie or refuse access to their own archivist?!

Two things:

1) there are acetates of missing Smile material and mixes owned by band members, top tier collectors, ex-wives, etc.

2) very few of these acetates are in Beach Boys tape library.

I have no idea why the acetates haven't been acquired. I do know that Alan Boyd himself has put the call out for Smile acetates on this very site.


I suppose one reason some of the "calls from Alan Boyd" haven't been answered is that us collectors know a coupla things.
The acetates are worth more if they don't get copied and distributed. 
What would I rather have?  An acetate that NOT ONE OTHER PERSON HAS, or one that I own, but I've let everybody else have a copy.
That's easy...

i'm sorry, but i highly doubt they're like that at all.  There's no value in something if nobody knows you have it.  they would be aware of that. 
Logged
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 17767


The triumph of The Hickey Script !


View Profile WWW
« Reply #183 on: January 29, 2011, 01:57:30 AM »

Not correct. If it's on an acetate it was cut from a vintage mono mix.

Not invariably.
Logged

The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #184 on: January 29, 2011, 07:45:14 AM »

I'm not sure what would be on them but if nothing else it seems they would show actual or intended assembly of tracks and it seems to me he was fairly free with handing them out to the Posse, the Boys apparently, and taking them home of course and possibly others. At least Brian was letting others hear acetates of work in progress for a period.
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
bgas
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6372


Oh for the good old days


View Profile
« Reply #185 on: January 29, 2011, 07:49:55 AM »


i'm sorry, but i highly doubt they're like that at all.  There's no value in something if nobody knows you have it.  they would be aware of that. 

Right. That's why people pay for stolen artwork. 
So they can hang it on their wall and tell everybody they have it....NOT. 
Logged

Nothing I post is my opinion, it's all a message from God
Jason
Guest
« Reply #186 on: January 29, 2011, 07:55:11 AM »

I suppose one reason some of the "calls from Alan Boyd" haven't been answered is that us collectors know a coupla things.
The acetates are worth more if they don't get copied and distributed. 
What would I rather have?  An acetate that NOT ONE OTHER PERSON HAS, or one that I own, but I've let everybody else have a copy.

Wha? I figured it was obvious but I was meant PURCHASE the acetates from collectors. Not sure why you would think anyone expected a collector to donate unheard Smile material for the cause. When the record company acquires unheard material it's implicit that in involves an exchange of money.

Reminds me of a story that Ernst Jorgensen (Elvis Presley's archivist) related in an interview a few years back. He had received a "tip" that a private collector had a considerable amount of Elvis reels that had been missing from the RCA archives. RCA managed to get in touch with the collector and sent Ernst with a money bag (like a bank bag) to exchange with the collector at an "undisclosed location". The "transaction" was money bag to hand/box of reels to hand, and the two walked away from each other.
Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8598


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #187 on: January 29, 2011, 01:38:12 PM »

Do we know or are we assuming Brian was handing out acetates to people other than band members and his collaborator Van Dyke? Those are the only examples that have been described by word of mouth in interviews and articles for years - Bruce, Al, and Durrie Parks. We know some more got out, but Jules Siegel? Can we be sure?

And Brian was the one who would play these acetates for his friends and guests - remember the description of him knowing the record by recognizing the cut of the grooves, as he played DJ for his assembled guests with Smile acetates?

I can't think of a single anecdote or statement, please correct me if I'm wrong, where anyone in the circle of Smile friends ever received an acetate or a mixdown from Brian. I think he was holding those pretty close to his own vest and his own band.

Remember what is on acetate had to be at one time on a tape, as someone mentioned. But what got copied to acetate may not have lasted on tape. Most of these were reference mixes from a day's work in the studio so they could take them home and listen, or give them to someone to learn a part or whatever. The future importance of these at the time was not too great for those involved.



Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8598


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #188 on: January 29, 2011, 01:44:06 PM »

Another quick anecdote, and I have this one on VHS if I can ever find it.

A guy showed up on a cable TV antique appraisal show about 12-13 years ago clutching an acetate of "Guess I'm Dumb", with handwritten label still intact and the protective sleeve from I believe Gold Star. I don't recall how he got it, whether it was a family member or a lucky record buy, but just saying it was amazing to see something like that come up in between Mickey Mouse telephones and beer can collections. I sent that VHS copy to a few old timers from the Smile Shop years ago and can't recall what if anything ever came from researching it, only that I think it was a reference acetate of the final mix rather than a rare outtake or test mix.

For all I know the guy who had it on the show is a member of this board!  Cheesy
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
A Million Units In Jan!
Guest
« Reply #189 on: January 29, 2011, 02:12:16 PM »

I'm not sure what would be on them but if nothing else it seems they would show actual or intended assembly of tracks and it seems to me he was fairly free with handing them out to the Posse, the Boys apparently, and taking them home of course and possibly others. At least Brian was letting others hear acetates of work in progress for a period.

Not saying you are wrong, but I don't recall that any of the Posse were in possession of any acetates. Durrie parks claimed to have had some years ago, Al and Bruce(?) said they had some, and as far as I know that's about it. We know, according to Jules' article, that Brian had a few that had no lyrics on them that he played for the hipsters at his dinner parties. It seems like people have this idea that there are numerous acetates out there floating around, and IMO, that seems to not be the case at all. Just my 2 cents worth.
Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8598


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #190 on: January 29, 2011, 02:51:42 PM »

I'm not sure what would be on them but if nothing else it seems they would show actual or intended assembly of tracks and it seems to me he was fairly free with handing them out to the Posse, the Boys apparently, and taking them home of course and possibly others. At least Brian was letting others hear acetates of work in progress for a period.

Not saying you are wrong, but I don't recall that any of the Posse were in possession of any acetates. Durrie parks claimed to have had some years ago, Al and Bruce(?) said they had some, and as far as I know that's about it. We know, according to Jules' article, that Brian had a few that had no lyrics on them that he played for the hipsters at his dinner parties. It seems like people have this idea that there are numerous acetates out there floating around, and IMO, that seems to not be the case at all. Just my 2 cents worth.

I'm just pointing out I said the same thing about 45 minutes before you posted this. Grin
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #191 on: January 29, 2011, 03:33:40 PM »

I only know what I think I remember of what I've been told a few years ago.

Siegel answers e-mail. Jonathan Anderle used to be around, maybe an IM would flush him out and he could ask his Dad. Vosse was working at KGO and could be reached by phone. There are Volman and what's his name, Danny Hutton, Derek Taylor's family, who else could be asked? Maybe the Wrecking Crew, probably not but maybe? Larry Levine was still alive a few years ago, maybe he could say how many Brian would have cut as a rule, if it was more than a half dozen than...?  Bruce answers message board questions here and there.

This is the SMiLE Shop, let's go team: independent corroboration.

In the case of Siegel, I think I'm starting to remember that he said he had an acetate that had more than one song on it. I think I took it that it could be that December comp. Someone else ask.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 03:38:54 PM by Cam Mott » Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #192 on: January 29, 2011, 03:55:14 PM »

The grey cells ain't so far gone, I looked it up. There could be alot of interesting acetate artifacts out there.

Here is what Vosse told me: "As for acetates, we got them all the time, lots of them, I do not remember one from another. Plus you know they wear out after a few playings so you'd get one and then a few days later another and so on and so on.”

Siegel told me he had a "vinyl dub" of a collection of tracks including vocals which he thought he had gotten around the time of the Oppenheim taping of Surf's Up; since lost.

Trust but verify; someone else needs to take a run at it.
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8598


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #193 on: January 29, 2011, 04:41:31 PM »

The grey cells ain't so far gone, I looked it up. There could be alot of interesting acetate artifacts out there.

Here is what Vosse told me: "As for acetates, we got them all the time, lots of them, I do not remember one from another. Plus you know they wear out after a few playings so you'd get one and then a few days later another and so on and so on.”

Siegel told me he had a "vinyl dub" of a collection of tracks including vocals which he thought he had gotten around the time of the Oppenheim taping of Surf's Up; since lost.

Trust but verify; someone else needs to take a run at it.

This is good information. Vosse confirmed what I said about acetates being crap after a handful of spins, that's the nature of the acetate as a disposable "memo" of a day's work, so if they are out there they had better have been dubbed years ago.

Mark Volman has, on the record, been stand-offish when the subject of Smile was brought up. For whatever reasons, whatever bad vibes may linger, someday he might open up but it seems like he's not into discussing it.

Don't forget Dean Torrance.

And add me to the school of thought that some people will hold tight to such items for the financial value especially if they're "unheard", "unbooted", "previously unpublished", "unseen", etc. As soon as that item gets published, heard, copied, etc., the value of that unique original goes down. I'm just saying...
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 17767


The triumph of The Hickey Script !


View Profile WWW
« Reply #194 on: January 30, 2011, 01:23:12 AM »

Larry Levine was still alive a few years ago, maybe he could say how many Brian would have cut as a rule, if it was more than a half dozen than...? 

Gonna need a Ouija board, he died 5/8/2008.
Logged

The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
A Million Units In Jan!
Guest
« Reply #195 on: January 30, 2011, 02:38:25 AM »

I'm not sure what would be on them but if nothing else it seems they would show actual or intended assembly of tracks and it seems to me he was fairly free with handing them out to the Posse, the Boys apparently, and taking them home of course and possibly others. At least Brian was letting others hear acetates of work in progress for a period.

Not saying you are wrong, but I don't recall that any of the Posse were in possession of any acetates. Durrie parks claimed to have had some years ago, Al and Bruce(?) said they had some, and as far as I know that's about it. We know, according to Jules' article, that Brian had a few that had no lyrics on them that he played for the hipsters at his dinner parties. It seems like people have this idea that there are numerous acetates out there floating around, and IMO, that seems to not be the case at all. Just my 2 cents worth.

I'm just pointing out I said the same thing about 45 minutes before you posted this. Grin


Curses! You indeed are correct, sir. I have no idea what happened there! Apologies!
Logged
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #196 on: January 30, 2011, 04:55:34 AM »

Larry Levine was still alive a few years ago, maybe he could say how many Brian would have cut as a rule, if it was more than a half dozen than...? 

Gonna need a Ouija board, he died 5/8/2008.

I thought that might be the case and am very sorry to hear it.
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
Chris Moise
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 192


View Profile
« Reply #197 on: January 31, 2011, 11:17:45 PM »

If it's on an acetate it was cut from a vintage mono mix.
Not invariably.

From the mid/late 1960's? I've never seen mention of stereo acetates from the era but I guess there are a few. Were you referring to 33 1/3 acetates?
Logged
Dove Nested Towers
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 811

Goodnight, Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are!


View Profile
« Reply #198 on: February 01, 2011, 01:32:21 AM »

What is that a picture of at the top of that memo? Is it a SMiLEing face?

I used to have a JPEG of that - if I remember it might be a child's lunchbag which Brian mailed, or one of those silly notes that girls pass around in the 5th grade. I think it's a smiling girl on the bag, but that's from a 6+ years ago memory.

OK. here's the pics, which in 2009 sold for $298.75 which included the buyer's premium; 
The note:


and the address side( it's a folding mailing note) which in the auction showed this side turned 180 degrees: 



This letter, and its innocent wide-eyed little girl masthead are spine-tinglingly redolent with the elusive & ethereal I'm In Great Shape-style, humorously health-conscious and spiritual Smile aesthetic. Thrilling to see & an amazing bargain at $300. Thanks for posting! Smiley
Logged

"The police aren't there to create disorder,
they're there to preserve disorder!" -Mayor
Daly, Chicago 1968
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 17767


The triumph of The Hickey Script !


View Profile WWW
« Reply #199 on: February 01, 2011, 04:53:21 AM »

If it's on an acetate it was cut from a vintage mono mix.
Not invariably.

From the mid/late 1960's? I've never seen mention of stereo acetates from the era but I guess there are a few. Were you referring to 33 1/3 acetates?

You're saying it was cut from a vintage mono mix, implying said mix was final, or near final. Some of the acetates were a very rough mono dub from the multitracks for Brian to consider his next move. According to your statement, Brian had finished mixes for most of Smile by late 1966, and we know that's not so.
Logged

The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
gfx
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.214 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!