The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961

[c-man]

I don't recall ever reading about a specific store. It could have been the shop around the corner, or Wallich's Music City, or anywhere in between.

Timothy White's book mentions Wallich's by name. Carrie Marks a few pages ago mentions the possibility of a shop called "Hogan's" in Hawthorne.

I think Carl also mentioned "Hogan's House Of Music" in some interview years ago.

[bgas]

I don't recall ever reading about a specific store. It could have been the shop around the corner, or Wallich's Music City, or anywhere in between.

Timothy White's book mentions Wallich's by name. Carrie Marks a few pages ago mentions the possibility of a shop called "Hogan's" in Hawthorne.

I think Carl also mentioned "Hogan's House Of Music" in some interview years ago.

Yeah, I probably don't retain enough of the stuff I'm reading here.

 Looking around on the AGeD man's favorite forwarding site, I found a 1969 picture of Hogan's House Of Music at 15707 Hawthorne Blvd in Lawndale, Ca, which is about 20 blocks down Hawthorne Blvd from Hawthorne,CA.
http://books.google.com/books?id=B1to3W3oupYC&pg=PA112&lpg=PA112#v=onepage&q&f=false

This is probably the  Carl interview you're thinking of, done by Billy Hinsche in 1981, where Carl definitely calls it Hogan's:  http://brianwilsonfans.com/a_cw.php

Of course, AL, in this interview taken from Golmine mag(2000) adds some changes to  the Rental story once again( and some other "nice" changes to history:   http://brianwilsonfans.com/page11.php

[guitarfool2002]

Scrolling down the page of that Lawndale/Hawthorne book, you'll see a 1970 class photo from Will Rogers school in Lawndale.

I think I found "Snooki" from MTV - I didn't know she was from that area...

[BJL]

This is probably the  Carl interview you're thinking of, done by Billy Hinsche in 1981, where Carl definitely calls it Hogan's:  http://brianwilsonfans.com/a_cw.php

Of course, AL, in this interview taken from Golmine mag(2000) adds some changes to  the Rental story once again( and some other "nice" changes to history:   http://brianwilsonfans.com/page11.php

"When our folks went to Mexico on business, we would take the food money they had left us and rent instruments from Hogan's House of Music on Hawthorne Boulevard."

This is probably insignificant, but Carl pretty clearly implied here that the folks went away more than once...  Otherwise he would have said "we took."  Obviously not hugely significant on its own, but could be another small support for the idea that there was more than one business trip. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

This is probably the  Carl interview you're thinking of, done by Billy Hinsche in 1981, where Carl definitely calls it Hogan's:  http://brianwilsonfans.com/a_cw.php

Of course, AL, in this interview taken from Golmine mag(2000) adds some changes to  the Rental story once again( and some other "nice" changes to history:   http://brianwilsonfans.com/page11.php

"When our folks went to Mexico on business, we would take the food money they had left us and rent instruments from Hogan's House of Music on Hawthorne Boulevard."

This is probably insignificant, but Carl pretty clearly implied here that the folks went away more than once...  Otherwise he would have said "we took."  Obviously not hugely significant on its own, but could be another small support for the idea that there was more than one business trip.  

Nice catch... except that it wasn't a business trip, but a trip with business associates, but given it was some 20 years and a lot of inhaling later, small point.

I'm assuming the 'family friend' would be David.

[Carrie Marks]

No, the family friend was a friend of Murry's. 

I can confirm Hogan's House of Music's stock rental guitar at that time was a solid body Rickenbacker (like Carl mentions) because David also rented it for his 1st couple of shows before he got his Strat. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

No, the family friend was a friend of Murry's.  

I can confirm Hogan's House of Music's stock rental guitar at that time was a solid body Rickenbacker (like Carl mentions) because David also rented it for his 1st couple of shows before he got his Strat.  

So... Hogan's (just down the street, maybe 3 miles) and not Wallich's (nearly 20 miles across town in Hollywood) ?  Logical, makes sense (and yes, I know I just applied logic to a situation involving The Beach Boys, which is at best an exercise in futility if not actual heartbreak...  )

Problem is, you collect all the available interviews and, while they agree on certain points, on others they're diametrically opposed and, try as I might, I can't make them fit my preferred theory. Which is of course most annoying.

[c-man]

No, the family friend was a friend of Murry's. 

I can confirm Hogan's House of Music's stock rental guitar at that time was a solid body Rickenbacker (like Carl mentions) because David also rented it for his 1st couple of shows before he got his Strat. 

So... Hogan's (just down the street) and not Wallich's (across town in Hollywood) ?  Logical, makes sense (and yes, I know I just applied logic to a situation involving The Beach Boys, which is at best an exercise in futility if not actual heartbreak...  )

Problem is, you collect all the available interviews and, while they agree on certain points, on others they're diametrically opposed and, try as I might, I can't make them fit my preferred theory. Which is of course most annoying.

Well, you know what they say about crime scene witnesses...if a bunch of people agree 100% on ALL the details, then something's fishy...

[Andrew G. Doe]

No, the family friend was a friend of Murry's.  

I can confirm Hogan's House of Music's stock rental guitar at that time was a solid body Rickenbacker (like Carl mentions) because David also rented it for his 1st couple of shows before he got his Strat.  

So... Hogan's (just down the street) and not Wallich's (across town in Hollywood) ?  Logical, makes sense (and yes, I know I just applied logic to a situation involving The Beach Boys, which is at best an exercise in futility if not actual heartbreak...  )

Problem is, you collect all the available interviews and, while they agree on certain points, on others they're diametrically opposed and, try as I might, I can't make them fit my preferred theory. Which is of course most annoying.

Well, you know what they say about crime scene witnesses...if a bunch of people agree 100% on ALL the details, then something's fishy...

Yeah... OK, then I'll just ignore everything that doesn't fit the way I want it to.  

Hmmm... been doing some snooping, and while Wallich's sold instruments, I can't find any mention of them doing rentals.

[guitarfool2002]

I can confirm Hogan's House of Music's stock rental guitar at that time was a solid body Rickenbacker (like Carl mentions) because David also rented it for his 1st couple of shows before he got his Strat. 

This little piece of information fascinates me, because as a guitar player it would be insane for a music store today in 2010 to rent a Rickenbacker!

It's interesting to place this discussion into two categories: time and location. The time being pre-Beatles 1961 when hardly anyone except maybe James Burton on Ricky Nelson's tv show was seen playing a Rickenbacker guitar. Rickenbacker was located in Santa Ana, so it would make perfect sense to have their product in the California music shops, and if such a shop made the instrument(s) available to rent, it was a great advertisement for that renter to come back and want to buy one later.

The Beatles, Carl Wilson, and Roger McGuinn a few years later sold more Rickenbackers than the company could ever have imagined in 1961! But it is fascinating to hear that Rickenbackers, which are considered "exclusive" guitars today, were being rented.

Are there any photos of David with that solidbody Rickenbacker? I'm curious which model he was using.

And it should be noted too how David, Carl, Al, and other S. California bands in that area had easier access at the time to what are now considered among the finest and most iconic electric guitars, basses, and amplifiers in history, with Fender's factory in Fullerton and Rickenbacker in Santa Ana.

What an incredible time and place to be in a band...

[bgas]

To be clear, we're working in muddy waters: 
Just picked up a 30 year old( 1981) interview with David that has some interesting bits, but also some differences from what I've seen posted more recently. 
Typing  in some excerpts. I think it shows , again, how memories are a funny thing. What is remembered seems to change; and maybe depends where you are at the time.  I'll  Try to  scan and post the whole thing somehow;( the biggest page is 11 X 15, all type) 
 RD is the interviewer, DM David Marks: 

RD: How did your interest in music develop? DM: My grandmother bought me a trumpet when I was in 5th grade and I played in the school band. I loved Harry James-- saw him on the Tonight Show or something-- and he was who I wanted to be. So I wanted to be a mucsician early. Then, I saw a guy and his sister, John and Judy Moss, singing with a trio behind them. John had played with Ritchie Valens. When I saw this guy playing guitar and singing I said to myself, "That's what I want to do". When I was 11, I got a guiitar for Christmas and took a few lessons from John. Meanwhile, Carl had taken up guitar in high school and sat in with John's band for a few bar gigs, so he and I started doing Ventures tunes--sittying around the living room, learning them off the records for our own amusment. 

RD: what was Brian doing then?  DM:  Brian was going to El Camino Junior college, studying music. He was 18 and really into Chuck Berry and the Four Freshmen. He used to stude the Four Freshmen, their harmony. He and his cousin Mike, plus Al Jardine from the junior college and another guy I forget, had a little group, Kenny and the Kadets. They weren't into surf music, they just played for parties and bar mitzvahs and stuff. 

RD: So there you were, all practicing together?  DM:  Yeah, learning to play guitar. Brian and carl were on separate trips at the time. Brian with his group, Carl jamming with me and another guy up the streer who had an accordion. But then Brian started taking advantage of the family situation-- he Was the big brother, right?-- and beagn to incorporate us all into his group. " hey, Carl, why don't you come over here and play this guitar part? I just made up the lick on the piano" Dennis didn't play an instrument but started learning drums. I wasn't really in the group then, though. I was practicing with them, but Al Jardine was playing upright bass with them. I was just their kid frien from across the street, going, " Hey guys, can I play too? can I, huh, huh?" 

RD: So when did the recording career start?  DM: Murry was a failed songwriter. He'd placed a song with Lawrence Welk, but not much else. He had a few contacts in the business. So he told the group, "hey why don't you guys record?"He knew a guy with a studio, Candix Records, and the band went down and recorded "surfin". I'd been practicing with them, and when they snuck out that record without me, I was really crushed.

RD: That was Al playing on the first single?  DM: Yeah. But then Al said " well this is going nowhere" and split to go back to dentistry school. 

RD: and so a new star was born.  DM: Right. I was 12 years old, sitting at home with mommy and daddy, watching TV and getting ready for school the next day. The Wilsons came over and said, " Do you want to be in the group?... My first gig with them was at the Bel Aire Bay Club, and we wore ugly mustard-colored coats that were way too big for us. especially mine. Real nerdy.

RD: Was the group called the BBs in those  early days?  DM:  No it was called the Pendletones, which Brian thought would be a real cool name since all the surfers wore Pendleton shirts. An independent promotion man, RUss Reagan, came up with the name "Beach Boys" and we all went "Yuck!" We all thought it was really embarassing. But Capitol loved the name, so we stuck with it


RD: The whole group was involved from "Surfin Safari" on?  DM: well Carl, brian and Mike always did all the singing. Dennis sang a little onstage, but not on the records, at least while I was with them. Y'know, I've actually played on more of those first songs than Dennis did. Brian was really into hiring studio drummers--  Hal Blaine and those guys.   

RD: How did the surfers react?  DM: The surferes in LA were a gang and they resented the BBS because surfing was a scared sport to them, They were reverent about it. Dick Dale and his Deltones were the official surfer band, the surfers adopted him... He was the first to sing "Sloop John B". And we copped his sound, so the surferes hated us. They would go after us us in the parking lots after gigs, try to kick our butts good.

RD:  Which albums are you on?  DM:  I played on the first five albums and about seven singles, some of them doubled sided hits; Fun Fun Fun was the first single they did without me. Brian came over to play it on my stereo, to see if it would sound good on the radio. 

RD: Why have you been quiet all these years? We were beginning to think of you as the American Pete Best.  DM:  I've been embarassed by it for the last 20 years. No one I know likes the BBs; they haven't progressed musically. Carl can't play the guitar any better today than he did 15 years ago.

Some funny stories that he's probably told since ( Or maybe not)  are included.

[Mikie]

Brian was going to El Camino Junior college, studying music. He was 18 and really into Chuck Berry and the Four Freshmen. He used to stude the Four Freshmen, their harmony. He and his cousin Mike, plus Al Jardine from the junior college and another guy I forget, had a little group, Kenny and the Kadets. They weren't into surf music, they just played for parties and bar mitzvahs and stuff.

In early 1962, when The Beach Boys were still with Candix, Bruce Morgan had a couple of instrumental tracks that he had recorded with other musicians. On "Barbie," Brian Wilson sang lead; Carl Wilson, Al Jardine, and Audree Wilson sang backup vocals. Val Poliuto added bass vocals. Mike and Dennis didn't participate in this session. On "What Is a Young Girl Made Of?", Brian took the lead vocal, and none of the other Beach Boys participated. This little recording "group" was called "Kenny & The Cadets". A single with the two songs was released in April, 1962 ( Randy 422).

[Jon Stebbins]

To be clear, we're working in muddy waters: 
Just picked up a 30 year old( 1981) interview with David that has some interesting bits, but also some differences from what I've seen posted more recently. 
Typing  in some excerpts. I think it shows , again, how memories are a funny thing. What is remembered seems to change; and maybe depends where you are at the time.  I'll  Try to  scan and post the whole thing somehow;( the biggest page is 11 X 15, all type) 
 RD is the interviewer, DM David Marks: 

RD: How did your interest in music develop? DM: My grandmother bought me a trumpet when I was in 5th grade and I played in the school band. I loved Harry James-- saw him on the Tonight Show or something-- and he was who I wanted to be. So I wanted to be a mucsician early. Then, I saw a guy and his sister, John and Judy Moss, singing with a trio behind them. John had played with Ritchie Valens. When I saw this guy playing guitar and singing I said to myself, "That's what I want to do". When I was 11, I got a guiitar for Christmas and took a few lessons from John. Meanwhile, Carl had taken up guitar in high school and sat in with John's band for a few bar gigs, so he and I started doing Ventures tunes--sittying around the living room, learning them off the records for our own amusment. 

RD: what was Brian doing then?  DM:  Brian was going to El Camino Junior college, studying music. He was 18 and really into Chuck Berry and the Four Freshmen. He used to stude the Four Freshmen, their harmony. He and his cousin Mike, plus Al Jardine from the junior college and another guy I forget, had a little group, Kenny and the Kadets. They weren't into surf music, they just played for parties and bar mitzvahs and stuff. 

RD: So there you were, all practicing together?  DM:  Yeah, learning to play guitar. Brian and carl were on separate trips at the time. Brian with his group, Carl jamming with me and another guy up the streer who had an accordion. But then Brian started taking advantage of the family situation-- he Was the big brother, right?-- and beagn to incorporate us all into his group. " hey, Carl, why don't you come over here and play this guitar part? I just made up the lick on the piano" Dennis didn't play an instrument but started learning drums. I wasn't really in the group then, though. I was practicing with them, but Al Jardine was playing upright bass with them. I was just their kid frien from across the street, going, " Hey guys, can I play too? can I, huh, huh?" 

RD: So when did the recording career start?  DM: Murry was a failed songwriter. He'd placed a song with Lawrence Welk, but not much else. He had a few contacts in the business. So he told the group, "hey why don't you guys record?"He knew a guy with a studio, Candix Records, and the band went down and recorded "surfin". I'd been practicing with them, and when they snuck out that record without me, I was really crushed.

RD: That was Al playing on the first single?  DM: Yeah. But then Al said " well this is going nowhere" and split to go back to dentistry school. 

RD: and so a new star was born.  DM: Right. I was 12 years old, sitting at home with mommy and daddy, watching TV and getting ready for school the next day. The Wilsons came over and said, " Do you want to be in the group?... My first gig with them was at the Bel Aire Bay Club, and we wore ugly mustard-colored coats that were way too big for us. especially mine. Real nerdy.

RD: Was the group called the BBs in those  early days?  DM:  No it was called the Pendletones, which Brian thought would be a real cool name since all the surfers wore Pendleton shirts. An independent promotion man, RUss Reagan, came up with the name "Beach Boys" and we all went "Yuck!" We all thought it was really embarassing. But Capitol loved the name, so we stuck with it


RD: The whole group was involved from "Surfin Safari" on?  DM: well Carl, brian and Mike always did all the singing. Dennis sang a little onstage, but not on the records, at least while I was with them. Y'know, I've actually played on more of those first songs than Dennis did. Brian was really into hiring studio drummers--  Hal Blaine and those guys.   

RD: How did the surfers react?  DM: The surferes in LA were a gang and they resented the BBS because surfing was a scared sport to them, They were reverent about it. Dick Dale and his Deltones were the official surfer band, the surfers adopted him... He was the first to sing "Sloop John B". And we copped his sound, so the surferes hated us. They would go after us us in the parking lots after gigs, try to kick our butts good.

RD:  Which albums are you on?  DM:  I played on the first five albums and about seven singles, some of them doubled sided hits; Fun Fun Fun was the first single they did without me. Brian came over to play it on my stereo, to see if it would sound good on the radio. 

RD: Why have you been quiet all these years? We were beginning to think of you as the American Pete Best.  DM:  I've been embarassed by it for the last 20 years. No one I know likes the BBs; they haven't progressed musically. Carl can't play the guitar any better today than he did 15 years ago.

Some funny stories that he's probably told since ( Or maybe not)  are included.

I think most interviews with Dave from his substance addiction years have some fairly dubious comments. He'll be the first to admit he didn't care very much about being accurate back then. Especially telling is where he says Dennis didn't sing on the records while he was there. Dennis' voice is on the majority of the songs on the first five LP's...so Dave's comment that he played on those LP's, but that Dennis didn't sing on the records while he was there is very contradictory. Probably mostly due to the fact that he didn't care...or had convinced himself he didn't so he could manage the baggage.

[Mike's Beard]

Also the comment about being on the first 5 lps, which Dave also said on the "Endless Harmony" doc - wasn't it during the recording of "Little Deuce Coupe" that Dave left the band? How would he be on "Shut Down II" unless it contained some earlier recordings?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Also the comment about being on the first 5 lps, which Dave also said on the "Endless Harmony" doc - wasn't it during the recording of "Little Deuce Coupe" that Dave left the band? How would he be on "Shut Down II" unless it contained some earlier recordings?

It's very possible, bordering on probable, that David is on "Little St. Nick" single. Now, at the same session for that, the band recorded an alternate track which was later used for "Drive-In"

[Andrew G. Doe]

To be clear, we're working in muddy waters: 
Just picked up a 30 year old( 1981) interview with David that has some interesting bits, but also some differences from what I've seen posted more recently. 
Typing  in some excerpts. I think it shows , again, how memories are a funny thing. What is remembered seems to change; and maybe depends where you are at the time. 

Or where your head is at the time - David will be the first to admit he wasn't in the best possible shape at that time.

[Mikie]

I wonder if, like Dave says in the interview, all of them really thought the Beach Boys name was "an embarassment"?

And I hope that Carl Wilson was a little better on guitar than 15 years prior...... 

[bgas]

To be clear, we're working in muddy waters: 
Just picked up a 30 year old( 1981) interview with David that has some interesting bits, but also some differences from what I've seen posted more recently. 
Typing  in some excerpts. I think it shows , again, how memories are a funny thing. What is remembered seems to change; and maybe depends where you are at the time. 

Or where your head is at the time - David will be the first to admit he wasn't in the best possible shape at that time.

Yes, exactly what I meant to say; where your head is at. Bad language usage on my part

[c-man]

That interview, in Trouser Press, was considered a watershed of information at the time.  I'm glad we now have a whole book of Dave's memoirs, told from a perspective of sobriety and unembarassment over his past.

[Carrie Marks]

For the record, David did that interview in a BAR! With that being said, other than some chronological details which he is admittedly bad with still to this day, I have to say there are a lot less factual errors than I would expect considering his state of mind and how he felt about the Beach Boys in general at that time...almost 30 years ago!

David said he never sang on any records, but we know that's not true either. In his mind, he and Dennis were not the main singers in the band, so he is rather flippant about their participation on the vocals...even though they both sang some. And the dental school comment is wrong.  Other than that, the only real fact that jumps out to me as outright wrong is the Bay Club being his first show - I think he believed that based on there being a photo from that night.  However, he's playing a Strat in that photo and he had a rented Ricky (see above post) for the first several shows so the BABC couldn't have been his 1st show.

David's worst crime in this interview was his inability to self-edit...which he's gotten much better at thanks to sobriety and extensive media training ;-)

[Andrew G. Doe]

David's worst crime in this interview was his inability to self-edit...which he's gotten much better at thanks to sobriety and extensive media training ;-)

Not to mention a spouse poking him in the ribs when required. 

[bgas]

For the record, David did that interview in a BAR! With that being said, other than some chronological details which he is admittedly bad with still to this day, I have to say there are a lot less factual errors than I would expect considering his state of mind and how he felt about the Beach Boys in general at that time...almost 30 years ago!

David said he never sang on any records, but we know that's not true either. In his mind, he and Dennis were not the main singers in the band, so he is rather flippant about their participation on the vocals...even though they both sang some. And the dental school comment is wrong.  Other than that, the only real fact that jumps out to me as outright wrong is the Bay Club being his first show - I think he believed that based on there being a photo from that night.  However, he's playing a Strat in that photo and he had a rented Ricky (see above post) for the first several shows so the BABC couldn't have been his 1st show.

David's worst crime in this interview was his inability to self-edit...which he's gotten much better at thanks to sobriety and extensive media training ;-)

That interview, in Trouser Press, was considered a watershed of information at the time.  I'm glad we now have a whole book of Dave's memoirs, told from a perspective of sobriety and unembarassment over his past.

Is this available on-line anywhere? There are some interesting tidbits/gossip that I thought were fun to read about the BBs, but I don't really want to type in the whole interview, presuming anyone really cares. I'm just not that good a typist. 

[guitarfool2002]

he's playing a Strat in that photo and he had a rented Ricky (see above post) for the first several shows so the BABC couldn't have been his 1st show.

I know I've asked the same thing above, but are there any photos of David with the Rickenbacker or any additional information on the model he was playing?

I'm a guitar geek, I thrive on this stuff...

[bgas]

he's playing a Strat in that photo and he had a rented Ricky (see above post) for the first several shows so the BABC couldn't have been his 1st show.

I know I've asked the same thing above, but are there any photos of David with the Rickenbacker or any additional information on the model he was playing?

I'm a guitar geek, I thrive on this stuff...

Might as well ask for pics of the group with Al playing, pre-David. There just aren't any.
Tho, one has to wonder if maybe Audree's scrapbook might not contain some pictures, wherever it's gotten to. 
At that point in time the BBs weren't a major news item, so to speak.

[guitarfool2002]

he's playing a Strat in that photo and he had a rented Ricky (see above post) for the first several shows so the BABC couldn't have been his 1st show.

I know I've asked the same thing above, but are there any photos of David with the Rickenbacker or any additional information on the model he was playing?

I'm a guitar geek, I thrive on this stuff...

Might as well ask for pics of the group with Al playing, pre-David. There just aren't any.
Tho, one has to wonder if maybe Audree's scrapbook might not contain some pictures, wherever it's gotten to. 
At that point in time the BBs weren't a major news item, so to speak.

How about Marks family photos for reference or even a personal recollection, not that I want a first-generation copy of a photo but just to find out what kind of Rickenbacker guitar he was playing.

Like those amazing 50's color shots of John, Paul, and George at a party in Liverpool holding guitars...they weren't exactly a major news item either.