The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961

[Zander]

Quoted from the Nearest Faraway Place (Pages 140-141)

"They drove to Wallichs' Music City in Hollywood and picked up...

Carbon Microphones
Guitars
Drums
Amplifiers
A Saxophone (for Carl) - he's taken lessons from Fred Morgan (Hawthorne High School Music Teacher)
A stand up bass for Al

The $150 dollars they set aside for rental didn't cover the fee so Viriginia Jardine agreed to cover the rest of the fee, arriving in time to sign the guarantors slip.  

I'd suggest reading those pages as they are most informative...

Those items I've highlighted - sorry, they don't fly. Carl had his own guitar, and if he was going to play that - which he did - why rent a totally different instrument that doesn't even show on the tracks they eventually recorded (not that it was needed anyway, which was as well as he wasn't very good at it) ?

Also, with Alan's mom's contribution, the rental totals $450 - still excessive.

Would it be possible to say that Al's Mum made the difference up to the magic figure of $300? Maybe that's where that figure comes from? Especially if drums were purchased. Also both Brian and Carl have mentioned the rental of a guitar/s,...

[The Shift]

... however deficient Dennis' geographical knowledge might have been, I doubt even he'd confuse Central America with Europe.

Don't forget that the US has only just recently ousted a president who thought you coul ddrive between the UK and the USA!   

[Carrie Marks]

Maybe I should be a politician...

Not with the level of logic & reason you've been displaying most recently!  

Hm.  Think I've just reasoned myself into a corner. Anyone got a fresh can of bright ideas ? 'Cause I'm clean out.  

If you factor in David, John Maus and Gary Leed's memories, you have another configuration of the band playing Surfin' together before the Candix session. David says Surfin' / the Beach Boys didn't come down and strike the guys with a lightening bolt one day...it was a gradual process that evolved over months (maybe weeks).  PERHAPS, Surfin' was conceived during a trip to England and given birth to during a trip to Mexico?  

Maybe the Wilson's went to England sometime in the early summer (prior to Labor Day), at which point the Boys spent the bulk of the time (and money) in the empty house playing music together.  David was there due to proximity, but was in and out, and Mike (and probably Al) spend time there depending on work schedules. When the Wilson's come home, the Boys start rehearsing at Johnny's.  And THEN, late in the summer,  the Wilson go away for a shorter trip to Mexico in which the Boys take advantage of food money / Virginia's good nature and take the next step in an attempt to record.  Upon return and the realization the Boys are onto something, they finally win Murry over and he, from that point on, works tirelessly until his Boys are a success.

There's no question SOMETHING happened while the parents were away SOMEWHERE, and the result of that happening ultimately led to Surfin'.  Beyond that, it gets real fuzzy.

The reason, I believe Al's version of the story is 1) its the most consistent and 2) he wasn't there as often as the others being both new to the scene and not family or from the neighborhood...so he has fewer instances of getting together to cloud his memory.  

You don't start seeing 'swiss cheese' in the story until you put the Wilson's stories up against each other.  When you factor in the fact the "Labor Day" story only becomes the starting point for the band after David leaves...it would make sense that the story would need to be retro-fitted somewhat to allow for everyone to get on the same page with a consistent story.  If you were to have a new version that paints Al as the original, going with HIS version of what happened would make sense...the only problem being Murry wasn't keen on giving Virginia the role of parent who go the whole thing started - so he takes her credit by saying his extraordinarily high 3-day grocery money was what funded the endeavour. Dennis probably forgot they agreed on the Mexico City trip and accidentally let it slip the Wilson's were in England when Surfin' INITIALLY came about.

Mostly speculation of course, but that version passes my rather acute BS filter, at least.

[guitarfool2002]

The only reason I could see them wanting to rent a guitar is to get a better quality model, or let's say Carl had a Kay guitar as he mentioned, the Kay being a bit of a lesser quality beater guitar, and he wanted something like a Fender Strat but they couldn't afford to buy it. So they're renting this stuff, why not get a nice guitar too? An indulgence? If we're thinking practical, it wouldn't make sense to rent a guitar if Carl had one, but a chance to test-drive something nicer than a Kay? Possible.

The part about renting a sax for Carl doesn't fit too well if he and David were already taking guitar lessons.

The part about renting or buying drums doesn't quite fit either, considering Brian is hitting a metal can with a pencil on the recording(s)...if they had the drums, why not use a snare at least?

[Zander]

Carrie, one of Murry's versions of the story is (Quoted: Tom Nolan - Tales of Hawthorne (1971) article, see the Back to the Beach Book)...

"It was early 1961 when Mike Love and Al Jardine were coming over to the house and Brian was teaching them songs......So eight months before the record of Surfin'  on 8th December 1961 is when the Beach Boys really started" - That would be May 1961.

So Murry was even avoiding the Virginia Jardine credit by months in 1971, but not really taking the credit for himself but avoiding any reference of David.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Quoted from Heroes & Villains (Page 55)

The two couples (Murry & Audree, Barry Haven & his wife) walked in the door to find the den full of equipment including amplifiers and microphones. "We saw all this stuff" Audree said "They had used all of the grocery money. They had borrowed some from Mike love (we'll assume she made a mistake there) and they rented the mikes and the bass. I'm not sure about the drums - I think they bought them"

Um. OK, if they bought the drums, even just a snare... why didn't they take them along to the demo session ?

[Zander]

Quoted from Heroes & Villains (Page 55)

The two couples (Murry & Audree, Barry Haven & his wife) walked in the door to find the den full of equipment including amplifiers and microphones. "We saw all this stuff" Audree said "They had used all of the grocery money. They had borrowed some from Mike love (we'll assume she made a mistake there) and they rented the mikes and the bass. I'm not sure about the drums - I think they bought them"

Um. OK, if they bought the drums, even just a snare... why didn't they take them along to the demo session ?

Who could play them? There's a difference between hitting a snare with an index finger and playing a full kit. Wouldn't Denny have to learn to play first? Audree pestered the boys have Denny in the group but as he coudn't play anything  (as Al stated in Endless Harmony) he by default became the drummer. All the others could so  maybe he need time to play catch up for whiih he would need a full kit

[Andrew G. Doe]

David says Surfin' / the Beach Boys didn't come down and strike the guys with a lightening bolt one day...it was a gradual process that evolved over months (maybe weeks).  

Very fair point, and one that jibes with what Fred Morgan said about giving Brian an F for the senior year music project in Hawthorne High - he said instead of handing in the required sonata, Brian submitted something that became "Surfin'". That would be, what, spring 1961 ?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Quoted from Heroes & Villains (Page 55)

The two couples (Murry & Audree, Barry Haven & his wife) walked in the door to find the den full of equipment including amplifiers and microphones. "We saw all this stuff" Audree said "They had used all of the grocery money. They had borrowed some from Mike love (we'll assume she made a mistake there) and they rented the mikes and the bass. I'm not sure about the drums - I think they bought them"

Um. OK, if they bought the drums, even just a snare... why didn't they take them along to the demo session ?

Who could play them? There's a difference between hitting a snare with an index finger and playing a full kit. Wouldn't Denny have to learn to play first? Audree pestered the boys have Denny in the group but as he coudn't play anything  (as Al stated in Endless Harmony) he by default became the drummer.

I recall the Morgans saying that Brian brought along an outside drummer to the demo session, but he was paid off because he was too flashy.

[Jon Stebbins]

Here's Brian's own version of events from the Imagination DVD

"The band started back in October 1961, when my parents left the country and $100 for the food money and they went to Mexico for 3 days and whilst they were there we got together and went to a music store and rented a bass, guitar and drums and brought them back to the house and we wrote a song the first day we were together then my Dad got back and said "What did ya spend the money on?". We said "instruments" and he said "What did you do that for?" and we played the songfor him and he cheered up"

No way Brian ever uttered the word "whilst".

[guitarfool2002]

The part about renting or buying drums doesn't quite fit either, considering Brian is hitting a metal can with a pencil on the recording(s)...if they had the drums, why not use a snare at least?

Again making the point that a real snare drum, since they had just bought and/or rented a kit, would be the choice to record a song rather than a pencil on a can. And according to one of the accounts pasted in this thread, they had to muffle the can with something...at that point why not just get the snare they had paid for?

One other point to consider - if they rented a stand-up bass, I think that's leaning the sound toward the folk music Al was a big champion of at that time. And in that style, at that time, there were hardly any folk groups or popular folk records which featured a full drum kit. Just thinking out loud.

[guitarfool2002]

Can anyone spot Carl Wilson carrying a saxophone out of the store?

[Zander]

Here's Brian's own version of events from the Imagination DVD

"The band started back in October 1961, when my parents left the country and $100 for the food money and they went to Mexico for 3 days and whilst they were there we got together and went to a music store and rented a bass, guitar and drums and brought them back to the house and we wrote a song the first day we were together then my Dad got back and said "What did ya spend the money on?". We said "instruments" and he said "What did you do that for?" and we played the songfor him and he cheered up"

No way Brian ever uttered the word "whilst".

Sorry "while", I added the "st"   Does that change the whole story Jon?   For anyone who wants to listen to that story go to around 31 mins into the DVD

[Andrew G. Doe]

The part about renting or buying drums doesn't quite fit either, considering Brian is hitting a metal can with a pencil on the recording(s)...if they had the drums, why not use a snare at least?

Again making the point that a real snare drum, since they had just bought and/or rented a kit, would be the choice to record a song rather than a pencil on a can. And according to one of the accounts pasted in this thread, they had to muffle the can with something...at that point why not just get the snare they had paid for?

One other point to consider - if they rented a stand-up bass, I think that's leaning the sound toward the folk music Al was a big champion of at that time. And in that style, at that time, there were hardly any folk groups or popular folk records which featured a full drum kit. Just thinking out loud.

The trashcan thing is another BB myth - it was a snare drum on the master. On the demo, however... no percussion at all: one acoustic guitar, five voices.

[Carrie Marks]

Can anyone spot Carl Wilson carrying a saxophone out of the store?

In that Carl Wilson quote he says they went to the music store on Hawthorne 'Avenue' (which must be a transcribers error) Hogan's House of Music was the store on Hawthorne Blvd.  So I wonder if the rental happened at Wallachs or Hogan's?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Can anyone spot Carl Wilson carrying a saxophone out of the store?

... and right next door is one of the many labels in LA who turned Murry down when he was hawking the 1962 demo tape around. 

[shelter]

I agree - "emergencies" is the game-changer. But was Murry that naive to think a group of teenage boys would be in any way responsible with that much cash money in their hands? He could have left that "emergency" money with a neighbor or a relative! That is if the amount were, in fact, 300 dollars.

It doesn't necessarily have to be that Murry handed them that specific sum. Maybe $300 just happened to be the amount of cash he had in the house, and that he told his sons where they could find it in case of emergency.

[joe_blow]

Here's Brian's own version of events from the Imagination DVD

"The band started back in October 1961, when my parents left the country and $100 for the food money and they went to Mexico for 3 days and whilst they were there we got together and went to a music store and rented a bass, guitar and drums and brought them back to the house and we wrote a song the first day we were together then my Dad got back and said "What did ya spend the money on?". We said "instruments" and he said "What did you do that for?" and we played the songfor him and he cheered up"

No way Brian ever uttered the word "whilst".

Show me that river, take me across
Wash all my troubles away
Whilst that lucky old sun's got nothin' to do
But roll around heaven all day

 

[joe_blow]

A good reference point for this question maybe  Alan Boyd - he will have arranged all the interviews for Endless Harmony where Al, Brian & Carl discuss the formation fo the group. Maybe there was something in the outtakes that may enlighten us all? According to Carl "We had a big party and lotta people showed - I don't how they knew to come but there was a lotta people there". Was this while Murry and Audree were away in Mexico / England? Who attended?
[/quote]

Was the Carl interview footage used in Endless Harmony not from the same interviews used for Stars and Stripes? Also where in this story does the part about the party they held and the police coming come into place?

[Zander]

Here's Brian's own version of events from the Imagination DVD

"The band started back in October 1961, when my parents left the country and $100 for the food money and they went to Mexico for 3 days and whilst they were there we got together and went to a music store and rented a bass, guitar and drums and brought them back to the house and we wrote a song the first day we were together then my Dad got back and said "What did ya spend the money on?". We said "instruments" and he said "What did you do that for?" and we played the songfor him and he cheered up"

No way Brian ever uttered the word "whilst".

Show me that river, take me across
Wash all my troubles away
Whilst that lucky old sun's got nothin' to do
But roll around heaven all day

 

Ha ha! Love it! 

[Zander]

A good reference point for this question maybe  Alan Boyd - he will have arranged all the interviews for Endless Harmony where Al, Brian & Carl discuss the formation fo the group. Maybe there was something in the outtakes that may enlighten us all? According to Carl "We had a big party and lotta people showed - I don't how they knew to come but there was a lotta people there". Was this while Murry and Audree were away in Mexico / England? Who attended?

Was the Carl interview footage used in Endless Harmony not from the same interviews used for Stars and Stripes? Also where in this story does the part about the party they held and the police coming come into place?
[/quote]

No, I think it's fresh footage but I'd have to check. But my point exactly, when the hell was the party that took place and who attended? If the police showed up as Carl says, there'll be a log with LAPD surely? Hey presto - you've then got a date to work around. 

Another point too, David Marks comments in the BBC Real Beach Boy Documentary - "Dennis didn't have any drum lessons, the drums just showed up in the music room one day and "Dennis - you're the drummer" Note, David doesn't say a only a snare drum turned up (and neither does Brian / Audree / Carl etc).

In the same programme David also says that a "hollow body electro-acoustic" was played unplugged on the recording of "Surfin", would that be Carl's Kay branded guitar or the rental one? Also, seems strange to rent amplifiers to practise then not use them for the recording of "Surfin'"....

[Andrew G. Doe]

OK. I've thought about this. Here's my gameplan.

1 - buy lottery ticket.

2 - win jackpot

3 - fly to LA

4 - spend many months going through the LADP records for Hawthorne for August/September 1961, the Capitol Records archives 1962-1970, the Local 47 filing cabinets for 1961-1970,  the records of United Western, the AFTRA vaults and... oh, any other relevant archive I can think of.

5 - write definitive chronology.

Anything I've missed ? Any major holes ? 

[adamghost]

I have a friend (Morley Bartnoff, best known as keyboardist for Dramarama and Burning Sensations) who shared a childhood recollection of being drawn by a crowd at a room at Hawthorne High School and, when he joined the crowd, they were gathered around the Beach Boys giving an informal concert in one of the rooms there.

I'd always raised an eyebrow at this story but coming on top of Carl's tale of a large crowd materializing out of nowhere, it rang a bell in my mind, because it happens to match up with Morley's anecdote.  One problem with the story is wikipedia has Morley's birthdate as '59.  I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is, it either happened much later than the time frame we're concerned with or it didn't happen at all.  It's an interesting mental image though, if this event did take place and it was in '61.  IIRC Morley had said it was in '62, but I couldn't swear to that; it was a long time ago when I heard this and for all I know I might be mixing up who told me the story, too.  Next time I see him I will grill him further.

[metal flake paint]

Was the Carl interview footage used in Endless Harmony not from the same interviews used for Stars and Stripes? Also where in this story does the part about the party they held and the police coming come into place?

That particular quote was lifted from an interview Carl did for the Time-Life History of Rock 'n'Roll in 1993.

[Zander]

OK. I've thought about this. Here's my gameplan.

1 - buy lottery ticket.

2 - win jackpot

3 - fly to LA

4 - spend many months going through the LADP records for Hawthorne for August/September 1961, the Capitol Records archives 1962-1970, the Local 47 filing cabinets for 1961-1970,  the records of United Western, the AFTRA vaults and... oh, any other relevant archive I can think of.

5 - write definitive chronology.

Anything I've missed ? Any major holes ? 

Why are you wasting precious time AGD? Get your hand in your pocket and get that lottery ticket - ha ha! Seriously, that's what it would take to nail a date down really...

Also noticed something regarding your Bellagio page whilst fact finding - for November 1963...

15 - Wallich's Music City, South Bay Center, Los Angeles CA* [grand opening]

Why would they be playing a grand opening for a store that opened in 1940? Was it a personal appearance instead or was it a grand "re-opening"?

http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Wallich's_Music_City