The Smiley Smile Message Board
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
If you like this message board, please help with the hosting costs!
680599
Posts in
27601
Topics by
4068
Members - Latest Member:
Dae Lims
March 28, 2024, 11:24:25 PM
The Smiley Smile Message Board
|
Smiley Smile Stuff
|
General On Topic Discussions
|
The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
« previous
next »
Pages:
[
1
]
2
3
4
5
6
...
9
Author
Topic: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961 (Read 35306 times)
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 17767
The triumph of The Hickey Script !
The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
on:
December 03, 2010, 12:04:45 PM »
Just been having a most interesting email dialog with Carrie Marks, and thought I'd ask for thoughts and musings here, it being after all the best place for such.
While she & David were in LA doing his lastest album, she told me JoAnn (David's mom) said that Murry & Audree didn't go to Mexico, but rather to England to visit the company he imported ABLE's lathes from (she even recalled the name, Binns & Berry of Halifax, who are still in busines !).
So... thoughts ?
Logged
The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 4171
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #1 on:
December 03, 2010, 12:13:03 PM »
Sounds like an excuse for a daytrip to Halifax.
Logged
"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 17767
The triumph of The Hickey Script !
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #2 on:
December 03, 2010, 12:29:33 PM »
Quote from: Cam Mott on December 03, 2010, 12:13:03 PM
Sounds like an excuse for a daytrip to Halifax.
Never been to Halifax, have you, ol' pal ?
Logged
The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
adamghost
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2107
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #3 on:
December 03, 2010, 12:39:24 PM »
I went to Nova Scotia when I was 4...
Logged
Louie Napoli
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 10
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #4 on:
December 03, 2010, 12:51:44 PM »
England for the weekend? From California? And after all this time, the story changes? Oh well, historically, that
could
be a given.
Logged
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 17767
The triumph of The Hickey Script !
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #5 on:
December 03, 2010, 01:10:19 PM »
Quote from: Louie Napoli on December 03, 2010, 12:51:44 PM
England for the weekend? From California? And after all this time, the story changes? Oh well, historically, that
could
be a given.
Who said anything about a weekend ? That's what we've always believed. Because that's what we've always been told. Think about this: according to the legend, Murry left a fully stocked refrigerator
and
gave them $300 for food/emergencies. That's roughly $34 per Wilson per day. At 1961 prices, even Carl couldn't have eaten $34 worth of burritos a day for three days. In one interview Carl said it was five days... even so, that's $20 a day each.
Here's another one: Alan's mom signed for the rental of the string bass, for $300 (hmmm... that figure again). Did a bass fiddle rental in 1961 really cost $100 - or even $60 - a day ?
Logged
The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 4171
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #6 on:
December 03, 2010, 01:32:53 PM »
Quote from: Andrew G. Doe on December 03, 2010, 12:29:33 PM
Quote from: Cam Mott on December 03, 2010, 12:13:03 PM
Sounds like an excuse for a daytrip to Halifax.
Never been to Halifax, have you, ol' pal ?
Me neither, pal o' mine. Let me know how it was.
Logged
"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
The Shift
Smiley Smile Associate
Online
Gender:
Posts: 7427
Biding time
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #7 on:
December 03, 2010, 02:23:55 PM »
As a son of Halifax, I am gladdened.
Logged
“We live in divisive times.”
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 17767
The triumph of The Hickey Script !
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #8 on:
December 03, 2010, 02:51:49 PM »
Quote from: Wee Helper on December 03, 2010, 02:23:55 PM
As a son of Halifax, I am gladdened.
Ah, excellent - I'll PM you the address, you can save me a train fare.
Logged
The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
bgas
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 6372
Oh for the good old days
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #9 on:
December 03, 2010, 04:09:27 PM »
Quote from: Andrew G. Doe on December 03, 2010, 02:51:49 PM
Quote from: Wee Helper on December 03, 2010, 02:23:55 PM
As a son of Halifax, I am gladdened.
Ah, excellent - I'll PM you the address, you can save me a train fare.
HA! I can just see you now, walking in the office and asking if they remember the visit by Murry and Audrey!
Logged
Nothing I post is my opinion, it's all a message from God
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
Pissing off drunks since 1978
Global Moderator
Offline
Posts: 11844
🍦🍦 Pet Demon for Sale - $5 or best offer ☮☮
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #10 on:
December 03, 2010, 05:32:20 PM »
Time to update the Beach Boys "Mythbusters" thread again, perhaps ^_^
Logged
Need your song mixed/mastered? Contact me at
fear2stop@yahoo.com
. Serious inquiries only, please!
Mikie
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 5887
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #11 on:
December 03, 2010, 07:46:43 PM »
Here's what I'm wondering:
1. Who originated the story that Murry & Audrey went to Mexico over Labor Day weekend.
2. Why, after all these years during interviews, none of the Beach Boys or Wilson/Love/Marks/Jardine family members ever corrected the story from the Wilson parents' vacation to Mexico (or wherever) to a business-related trip to England? Did they forget, or a vacation to Mexico sounded like a better story?
3. Why, after all these years, authors of articles and books never got the story straight? Same reason it was thought for years that Murry fired David?
4. Did Murry ever hit on JoAnne Marks?
Logged
I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
Carrie Marks
Honored Guest
Offline
Posts: 204
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #12 on:
December 03, 2010, 08:43:48 PM »
Quote from: Mikie on December 03, 2010, 07:46:43 PM
Here's what I'm wondering:
1. Who originated the story that Murry & Audrey went to Mexico over Labor Day weekend.
2. Why, after all these years during interviews, none of the Beach Boys or Wilson/Love/Marks/Jardine family members ever corrected the story from the Wilson parents' vacation to Mexico (or wherever) to a business-related trip to England? Did they forget, or a vacation to Mexico sounded like a better story?
3. Why, after all these years, authors of articles and books never got the story straight? Same reason it was thought for years that Murry fired David?
4. Did Murry ever hit on JoAnne Marks?
1. Not sure, but I do know the story was spun sometime in 1964. The band's first bio, written by Murry himself, credits David with having been there from the start...even including him as part of the Surfin' sessions.
2. Jo Ann didn't know about the Mexico thing. She mentioned England when I tried to explain to her why people believe (wrongly) that David wasn't an original BB. She wasn't totally aware of the fabricated version of the band's genesis before...she operated under the assumption people knew the truth.
3. That would be my guess. Its also the same reason people don't think Dennis played drums on as many songs as he did.
4. Yes, he did. This incident occurred after Murry sent Audree and Elmer Marks to Hawaii to road-mange the Boys together and her rejection only compounded the growing tension between the 2 families. Upon their return, Elmer was fired as road manager and David's share of the touring revenues are cut off. That was beginning of the end for David.
Logged
Mikie
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 5887
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #13 on:
December 03, 2010, 09:55:17 PM »
Thanks for that, Carrie. I was a little hesitant about asking the last question, but was feeling a little smart-assy tonight, so I hope I didn't offend. It may have been touched on in the Stebbins book and/or another board before, but I thought I'd ask about it here. I had a feeling that may have been one of the reasons behind Dave's departure.
Logged
I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
Jon Stebbins
Honored Guest
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 2635
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #14 on:
December 03, 2010, 10:20:14 PM »
Jo Ann told me that Murry insisted she sit in between he and Audree in the front seat of the car when they were all going somewhere together...which really creeped her out because the back seat was empty.
Logged
Beach Head
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 171
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #15 on:
December 04, 2010, 12:07:49 AM »
Isn't there a first person recollection from some British business acquaintance of Murry's about that trip to Mexico? I seem to recall it appeared in somebody's book - not a book on the Beach Boys, but one by somebody who spent a number of years in the music business. Does that ring any bells with anybody? (I've always thought it was concluded some time ago that the story put to rest any questions about the trip. No?)
Logged
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 17767
The triumph of The Hickey Script !
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #16 on:
December 04, 2010, 01:11:37 AM »
Quote from: Beach Head on December 04, 2010, 12:07:49 AM
Isn't there a first person recollection from some British business acquaintance of Murry's about that trip to Mexico? I seem to recall it appeared in somebody's book - not a book on the Beach Boys, but one by somebody who spent a number of years in the music business. Does that ring any bells with anybody? (I've always thought it was concluded some time ago that the story put to rest any questions about the trip. No?)
Yes, there is, and if I was in any way a good researcher I'd have filed it. I distinctly recall the author said that the song - "Surfin'" - "made you feel like relaxey-vouzing"... which kinda made me do a double take, of course. We'll find it again. We always do. Because it's what we do.
And of course, just because it's written in a book doesn't make it what actually happened.
I'm more interested in finding out what really happened when the band rehearsed "Surfin'", as when you look closely at the accepted tale, it just starts falling apart. As Carrie said, I don't recall any primary/contemporary sources referring to it being the Labor Day weekend... if I'm wrong, please correct me.
And yes, I can also see the holes in Jo Ann's recollection, but then, we as fans have reconciled, or patched, bigger holes in accepted BB history: Alan leaves the band to go to Ferris U., anyone ?
Don't know about anyone else, but I'd call Jo Ann Marks a credible first-hand source. One thing I've discovered these last few years is that the Marks family has a dominant memory gene.
«
Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 01:13:30 AM by Andrew G. Doe
»
Logged
The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
Beach Head
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 171
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #17 on:
December 04, 2010, 01:33:16 AM »
Quote from: Andrew G. Doe on December 04, 2010, 01:11:37 AM
As Carrie said, I don't recall any primary/contemporary sources referring to it being the Labor Day weekend.
If memory serves me, even the recollection from Murry's friend - while it does confirm a trip to Mexico (as opposed to England) - doesn't specifically place the trip as being on Labor Day weekend.
Unfortunately, as "mythological" as the story has become, it may be impossible now to pin down the precise facts. Several of the original participants (Murry, Carl, Dennis) are gone, and I'm not sure I'd trust what some of the remaining participants (Brian, Mike, Al) might have to say about it. All of them, at one time or another, have told stories of the group's early days that are proveably false. Has anybody ever asked Audree her recollections of the group's start?
Logged
Mike's Beard
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 4265
Check your privilege. Love & Mercy guys!
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #18 on:
December 04, 2010, 01:38:04 AM »
Quote from: Andrew G. Doe on December 03, 2010, 01:10:19 PM
Quote from: Louie Napoli on December 03, 2010, 12:51:44 PM
England for the weekend? From California? And after all this time, the story changes? Oh well, historically, that
could
be a given.
Who said anything about a weekend ? That's what we've always believed. Because that's what we've always been told. Think about this: according to the legend, Murry left a fully stocked refrigerator
and
gave them $300 for food/emergencies. That's roughly $34 per Wilson per day. At 1961 prices, even Carl couldn't have eaten $34 worth of burritos a day for three days. In one interview Carl said it was five days... even so, that's $20 a day each.
Here's another one: Alan's mom signed for the rental of the string bass, for $300 (hmmm... that figure again). Did a bass fiddle rental in 1961 really cost $100 - or even $60 - a day ?
I've always thought that figure to be high. With inflation factored in, wouldn't that be about $1000 in today's currency? For what? To feed 3 teenagers over a weekend? No wonder Carl was the size he was!
Logged
I'd rather be forced to sleep with Caitlyn Jenner then ever have to listen to NPP again.
adamghost
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2107
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #19 on:
December 04, 2010, 02:01:11 AM »
Seriously, this is good stuff because the whole story never quite made sense to me.
Logged
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 17767
The triumph of The Hickey Script !
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #20 on:
December 04, 2010, 02:11:12 AM »
Quote from: Beach Head on December 04, 2010, 01:33:16 AM
Unfortunately, as "mythological" as the story has become, it may be impossible now to pin down the precise facts.
Very likely, but that's never stopped us before... and isn't it fun ?
Logged
The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
The Shift
Smiley Smile Associate
Online
Gender:
Posts: 7427
Biding time
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #21 on:
December 04, 2010, 02:37:58 AM »
Quote from: Andrew G. Doe on December 03, 2010, 02:51:49 PM
Quote from: Wee Helper on December 03, 2010, 02:23:55 PM
As a son of Halifax, I am gladdened.
Ah, excellent - I'll PM you the address, you can save me a train fare.
I'm curious enough to give it a go when I'm next visiting my folks an have an hour to spare!
Logged
“We live in divisive times.”
Zander
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 374
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #22 on:
December 04, 2010, 04:09:50 AM »
Quote from: Andrew G. Doe on December 03, 2010, 12:29:33 PM
Quote from: Cam Mott on December 03, 2010, 12:13:03 PM
Sounds like an excuse for a daytrip to Halifax.
Never been to Halifax, have you, ol' pal ?
Well worth a trip to Halifax, surprisingly beautiful place! I went to see the Bootleg Beatles at the theatre there in March. Lovely architecture and scenery which was not what I expected at all. An even more interesting place now...
Logged
They say I got brains but they ain't doing me no good, I wish they could...
Zander
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 374
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #23 on:
December 04, 2010, 04:22:07 AM »
Here's the contact info for the firm...
http://www.uk-local-search.co.uk/business/binns+_+berry+international+ltd/198543/
Funnily enough the contact is called Carl - what a coincidence
Logged
They say I got brains but they ain't doing me no good, I wish they could...
The Shift
Smiley Smile Associate
Online
Gender:
Posts: 7427
Biding time
Re: The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961
«
Reply #24 on:
December 04, 2010, 05:20:46 AM »
hmmm, used to live within a half-mile of this place. I'll look into legends of one-eyed Americans trying to pick up the biker chicks in the Upper George...!
Logged
“We live in divisive times.”
Pages:
[
1
]
2
3
4
5
6
...
9
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Smiley Smile Stuff
-----------------------------
=> BRIAN WILSON Q & A
=> Welcome to the Smiley Smile board
=> General On Topic Discussions
===> Ask The Honored Guests
===> Smiley Smile Reference Threads
=> Smile Sessions Box Set (2011)
=> The Beach Boys Media
=> Concert Reviews
=> Album, Book and Video Reviews And Discussions
===> 1960's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1970's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1980's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1990's Beach Boys Albums
===> 21st Century Beach Boys Albums
===> Brian Wilson Solo Albums
===> Other Solo Albums
===> Produced by or otherwise related to
===> Tribute Albums
===> DVDs and Videos
===> Book Reviews
===> 'Rank the Tracks'
===> Polls
-----------------------------
Non Smiley Smile Stuff
-----------------------------
=> General Music Discussion
=> General Entertainment Thread
=> Smiley Smilers Who Make Music
=> The Sandbox
Powered by SMF 1.1.21
|
SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.474 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi
design by
Bloc
Loading...