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Author Topic: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up  (Read 61976 times)
Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2010, 03:27:04 PM »

1 - it exists, Jack sang me a couple of lines when I interviewed him in London, summer 1982. Hard to judge from that.

2 - depends who you listen to: Bruce says he quit for the good of the band, Brian says he was fired.

3 - re-reading those posts some 14 years on, and stacking them up against research conducted in the interim, it's evident that some of Jack's recollections are questionable. Caveat emptor.

"4th Of July" - love it, but you have to recall that a final mix was never made: what we hear on the box set is a 1992 construct of two separate masters (one a safety) and a work vocal by Carl. I'm guessing it would have had bvs as well.
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« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2010, 05:26:19 PM »

After reading through all that just a couple of questions came to mind.

1. Burlesque. Does this circulate? I've heard this song mentioned before, was it left unfinished, or as a demo? I'd love to hear it.
2. Did Bruce really get fired? I only ever heard that he "left" the band, I imagine Rieley's influence on the band caused his leaving either way, but I'd be interested to know if he was actually fired.
3. Rieley makes it sound like Brian was improving during the time in Holland but his contributions to that album were minimal, was he really doing that well? I think I've heard Brian himself describe that period as being especially unhappy.

Also do people really like 4th of July? I don't know if Feet was a better choice, but 4th of July always sounded like it was missing something. I'd be interested to hear other opinions.

About number 3, Brian sure enjoyed the hard cider while he was there.
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18thofMay
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« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2010, 06:09:04 PM »

Reading Jack's comments really were awesome a great experience.Thanks
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« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2010, 09:34:22 PM »

When Jack Rieley mentions the SMiLE tracks being ruined by Brian's attempts to improve them, are there any specific examples he's citing? Maybe I'm just used to all the SMiLE versions out there but nothing seems terribly overproduced (at least to the point of the tracks becoming unlikable). Did these versions he's referring to never see the light of day or have we all just been accustomed to what they sound like?
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« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2010, 11:45:06 PM »

I think he's talking about early versions of Heroes. If you listen to the November '66 demo you get the impression the song would have been Heroes Verse/I'm In Great Shape/Barnyard, and from what I understand none of Brian's mix attempts from that period have been heard by fans. In '67 Brian cannibalized Worms and put the Bicycle Rider part into Heroes, and those later attempts that we've heard are what Rieley is talking about, Brian fussing with the sequencing and moving away from his earlier, more interesting ideas.
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« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2010, 06:54:06 AM »

Loved Jack's story about Brian and the masseuse. Hilarious and reallllllllly weird.
Brian telling his kids he's not their father - wtf? hahaha
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filledeplage
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« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2010, 07:59:41 AM »

thanks for posting that...saves me from doing it...  Smiley

this was over 14 years ago. i remember at the time people were discussing if it really was jack or not. i had a friend who was an "insider" as they say. when i mentioned this to him, he ask me to ask about the spring album. so i did. and yes, he said things about that lp i was told about in advance. so yep...it really was jack. i missed his posts once he quit doing that.

You are welcome.  I can only read that blurb in small doses.  Some of it lacks credibility for me;  for example, I find it hard to swallow that Carl objected to Student Demonstration Time, when the "demostrations" were ani-war and Carl was a Conscientious Objector. Carl had been in and out of court as a result of his anti-war stance and the killings on the Kent State campus, by National Guardsmen in 1970, about which Neil Young wrote "Ohio" and CSNY performed...My first Beach Boys show was a day or so after Carl had been arrested for draft evasion.  It was "current events" news, and people were holding their breath to see if he would be released for the concert.  People questioned whether Carl was sincere in his anti-war stance, and whether it was simply that he did not want to serve and whether it was "inconvenient" for the band to be without him. 

That said, I have to qualify that this is a fan's "take" on whether or not this is actually true, but it seems so "off the wall" but this song did have a great impact on college students, when they did it in concert, in the wake of the Ohio State murders and the sporadic shutdown of adminstration buildings, during sit-ins, in protest of the Vietnam War.   

AGD said "caveat emptor" or "let the buyer beware." I agree 100%.   

Looking at a 1996 web page dialogue, and applying a 2010 "lens" is very dangerous. At that point the time elapsed between "Surfs Up" and the "dialogue" was about 25 years.  Analyzing in a "contemporaneous" manner is more appropriate, in my humble opinion.  You analyze it in the time block in which it was composed.   

It does not mean that the music is not "timeless" but only raises the question of whether it was something that was "reflective" of what was going on in society at the time and whether it "typified or embodied" a "point of view" as "Ohio" did in the wake of the killings on the Kent State Campus.   
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« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2010, 10:22:57 AM »

1 - it exists, Jack sang me a couple of lines when I interviewed him in London, summer 1982. Hard to judge from that.

2 - depends who you listen to: Bruce says he quit for the good of the band, Brian says he was fired.

3 - re-reading those posts some 14 years on, and stacking them up against research conducted in the interim, it's evident that some of Jack's recollections are questionable. Caveat emptor.

"4th Of July" - love it, but you have to recall that a final mix was never made: what we hear on the box set is a 1992 construct of two separate masters (one a safety) and a work vocal by Carl. I'm guessing it would have had bvs as well.

When I listen to "4th of July" I always imagine that Dennis would have come in behind Carl on the chorus if it had been completed.
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« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2010, 10:54:53 AM »

for example, I find it hard to swallow that Carl objected to Student Demonstration Time, when the "demostrations" were ani-war and Carl was a Conscientious Objector.

Carl's objections to SDT may have been for artistic reasons, rather than anything to do with his personal politics. The Beach Boys had been performing "Riot in Cell Block #9," the source song for SDT in concert, to rave reviews. He may have wanted to record the original song instead.

My husband dislikes SDT because he feels that the lyrics are a weak attempt at topicality. Ironically, the original "Riot" lyrics wound up being more topical than the rewrite after Surf's Up came out, because of the Attica riots. Perhaps Carl was prescient.


« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 10:55:57 AM by Emdeeh » Logged
Myk Luhv
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« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2010, 10:59:35 AM »

"Student Demonstration Time" is a terrible song because of the flaccid second half where, instead of advocating more protesting and whatnot, you get gems like "I know we're all fed up with useless wars and racial strife / But next time there's a riot, well, you best stay out of sight" and the "Stay away when there's a riot going on" refrain. Real progressive and supportive there, Mike.
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« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2010, 11:51:09 AM »

"Student Demonstration Time" is a terrible song because of the flaccid second half where, instead of advocating more protesting and whatnot, you get gems like "I know we're all fed up with useless wars and racial strife / But next time there's a riot, well, you best stay out of sight" and the "Stay away when there's a riot going on" refrain. Real progressive and supportive there, Mike.

 There may be more here than meets the eye.  There is a fine line between what is "permissible free speech" and "promotion of anarchy," which can be harshly looked upon, legally.  What looks "weak" may have been the legal "safe ground" for protest.  The "artistic" may have taken a back seat to "getting the message out," that the Band supported much of what the issues which were in controversy.   

 And Carl may have been a bit "prescient" as  mentioned above, because the album was released about a week before the Attica prison riots.  However, there were demonstrations of almost every sort, against the war, for womens rights, for racial issues, and many bystanders were injured during those events, so the lyrics of "stay out of sight" were probably pretty prudent.   And, that song got huge positive responses from the concertgoers who were  fed up over the war in Vietnam.   And it helped the image of "non-relevance."  No one could say that they were stuck in the "car-girly-surf" mode and incapable of connecting with the "slap of reality"
of those troubled times.
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« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2010, 06:47:08 AM »

It would be interesting to hear what Riley's thoughts are on the 2004 SMiLE and thoughts on recent work such as TLOS & BWRG.
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« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2010, 08:05:22 AM »

It would be interesting to hear what Riley's thoughts are on the 2004 SMiLE and thoughts on recent work such as TLOS & BWRG.

There is a very interesting article which was written in the NY Times, September 18, 2004, which I just "re-found" written by Verilyn  Klinkenborg, and the last paragraph is particularly telling. 

The link is a mile long.  It is an op-ed article. 

Frankly, I struggle with "enhanced résumés."
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Dave in KC
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« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2010, 10:28:18 AM »

filledeplage
what you said above about SDT
you nailed it
those who say the opposite probably were not around at the time

« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 10:29:58 AM by Dave in KC » Logged
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« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2010, 11:54:03 AM »

filledeplage
what you said above about SDT
you nailed it
those who say the opposite probably were not around at the time


Thanks, Dave - that song sort of "harshly embodies"  for me, that very fearful stuff, that was going on in the late 1960's and early 70's when I started college.  It was a common event to get to school only to find sirens and riot police, responding to either sit-in, an administration building takeover, and often a bomb threat.  It was insane.  SDT is "harsh sounding" and "cautionary"  but only equal to the events going on at the time.

Student Demonstration Time sort of "freezes" that moment in time, for me, where peace was not to be found, either in the colleges, streets, prisons, or in Southeast Asia.  I found it "timely, socially appropriate and responsible" for the Beach Boys to release and perform such a harsh song. 

It was not the artful and harmonious "business-as-usual" offering of the Boys, but gave us a musical "place" to put the outrage at the times, and the fear of what might happen if a peaceful demonstration turned violent.   Not a pretty song, but very much "on the mark," for those mighty ugly days.   

 
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« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2010, 01:36:54 PM »

1 - it exists, Jack sang me a couple of lines when I interviewed him in London, summer 1982. Hard to judge from that.

2 - depends who you listen to: Bruce says he quit for the good of the band, Brian says he was fired.

3 - re-reading those posts some 14 years on, and stacking them up against research conducted in the interim, it's evident that some of Jack's recollections are questionable. Caveat emptor.

"4th Of July" - love it, but you have to recall that a final mix was never made: what we hear on the box set is a 1992 construct of two separate masters (one a safety) and a work vocal by Carl. I'm guessing it would have had bvs as well.

Andrew, do we know what era "Burlesque" is from? Rieley makes it sound like Surf's Up-era.

Just seems weird to me that the band would be denying ANY songs with a B. Wilson credit on them at that time.
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« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2010, 02:31:52 PM »

1 - it exists, Jack sang me a couple of lines when I interviewed him in London, summer 1982. Hard to judge from that.

2 - depends who you listen to: Bruce says he quit for the good of the band, Brian says he was fired.

3 - re-reading those posts some 14 years on, and stacking them up against research conducted in the interim, it's evident that some of Jack's recollections are questionable. Caveat emptor.

"4th Of July" - love it, but you have to recall that a final mix was never made: what we hear on the box set is a 1992 construct of two separate masters (one a safety) and a work vocal by Carl. I'm guessing it would have had bvs as well.

Andrew, do we know what era "Burlesque" is from? Rieley makes it sound like Surf's Up-era.

Just seems weird to me that the band would be denying ANY songs with a B. Wilson credit on them at that time.

AGD's site doesn't list any sessions for the song during the Rieley period but does list is among songs recorded during the MIU sessions.

Also what about Sail On Sailor? I've heard that was done during the Surf's Up era and recorded by Desper. I'd love to hear that version.
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« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2010, 03:48:11 PM »

1 - it exists, Jack sang me a couple of lines when I interviewed him in London, summer 1982. Hard to judge from that.

2 - depends who you listen to: Bruce says he quit for the good of the band, Brian says he was fired.

3 - re-reading those posts some 14 years on, and stacking them up against research conducted in the interim, it's evident that some of Jack's recollections are questionable. Caveat emptor.

"4th Of July" - love it, but you have to recall that a final mix was never made: what we hear on the box set is a 1992 construct of two separate masters (one a safety) and a work vocal by Carl. I'm guessing it would have had bvs as well.

Andrew, do we know what era "Burlesque" is from? Rieley makes it sound like Surf's Up-era.

Just seems weird to me that the band would be denying ANY songs with a B. Wilson credit on them at that time.

AGD's site doesn't list any sessions for the song during the Rieley period but does list is among songs recorded during the MIU sessions.

Also what about Sail On Sailor? I've heard that was done during the Surf's Up era and recorded by Desper. I'd love to hear that version.

I actually asked "Burlesque" relating to the MIU sessions and Andrew said that its a different song from the one that Rieley was talking about. That is definitely one of those songs I hope comes out some time soon, either as a bonus track on a reissued album or on an unreleased/rarities comp.

About "Sail On Sailor", well, I have no idea on that one. But I am pretty sure Desper said something like the "released version sounds an awful lot like the one he recorded." I'm pretty sure he also claimed Carl did the original lead vocal or something, as the track and vocal were done before the emergence of Blondie and Ricky. I might be wrong on that one though.
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« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2010, 05:26:04 PM »

1 - it exists, Jack sang me a couple of lines when I interviewed him in London, summer 1982. Hard to judge from that.

2 - depends who you listen to: Bruce says he quit for the good of the band, Brian says he was fired.

3 - re-reading those posts some 14 years on, and stacking them up against research conducted in the interim, it's evident that some of Jack's recollections are questionable. Caveat emptor.

"4th Of July" - love it, but you have to recall that a final mix was never made: what we hear on the box set is a 1992 construct of two separate masters (one a safety) and a work vocal by Carl. I'm guessing it would have had bvs as well.

Andrew, do we know what era "Burlesque" is from? Rieley makes it sound like Surf's Up-era.

Just seems weird to me that the band would be denying ANY songs with a B. Wilson credit on them at that time.

AGD's site doesn't list any sessions for the song during the Rieley period but does list is among songs recorded during the MIU sessions.

Also what about Sail On Sailor? I've heard that was done during the Surf's Up era and recorded by Desper. I'd love to hear that version.

I actually asked "Burlesque" relating to the MIU sessions and Andrew said that its a different song from the one that Rieley was talking about. That is definitely one of those songs I hope comes out some time soon, either as a bonus track on a reissued album or on an unreleased/rarities comp.

About "Sail On Sailor", well, I have no idea on that one. But I am pretty sure Desper said something like the "released version sounds an awful lot like the one he recorded." I'm pretty sure he also claimed Carl did the original lead vocal or something, as the track and vocal were done before the emergence of Blondie and Ricky. I might be wrong on that one though.

Here's an earlier SOS thread: 
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,4413.0.html
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« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2010, 06:14:00 PM »

"Student Demonstration Time" is a terrible song because of the flaccid second half where, instead of advocating more protesting and whatnot, you get gems like "I know we're all fed up with useless wars and racial strife / But next time there's a riot, well, you best stay out of sight" and the "Stay away when there's a riot going on" refrain. Real progressive and supportive there, Mike.

 There may be more here than meets the eye.  There is a fine line between what is "permissible free speech" and "promotion of anarchy," which can be harshly looked upon, legally.  What looks "weak" may have been the legal "safe ground" for protest.  The "artistic" may have taken a back seat to "getting the message out," that the Band supported much of what the issues which were in controversy.

Also, staying "out of sight" gives you the option to go underground . . .
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« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2010, 08:23:36 AM »

Did Rieley ever talk about Ricky and Blondie and his thoughts on them joining the band?
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« Reply #46 on: December 26, 2010, 02:44:02 AM »

Too bad no asked him about WIBNTLA and its part in the Surf's Up track lineup disagreements. Sad
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