Title: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Dunderhead on December 01, 2010, 11:04:31 PM Hey guys I remember reading a long q&a with Jack Rieley, searching through old threads only brings up broken links so I was hoping somebody knew where I could read it again. I only ask because I'm developing a real fondness for the Surf's Up album and I wanted to read up on it.
That album is great by the way, for the longest time I could never get through the first 30 seconds of Don't Go Near The Water but now I adore it. Feel free to share any thoughts on that album while we're at it. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: punkinhead on December 01, 2010, 11:12:20 PM Hey guys I remember reading a long q&a with Jack Rieley, searching through old threads only brings up broken links so I was hoping somebody knew where I could read it again. I only ask because I'm developing a real fondness for the Surf's Up album and I wanted to read up on it. That album is great by the way, for the longest time I could never get through the first 30 seconds of Don't Go Near The Water but now I adore it. Feel free to share any thoughts on that album while we're at it. Ahhhh, thus, a perfect example as to why I print out the things I print about the BB. I however don't have this, I just wanted to show a sample of how my printing out articles/interviews/blogs/message board discussions is completely legit and not wasteful. :-D Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Dunderhead on December 01, 2010, 11:15:50 PM Hey guys I remember reading a long q&a with Jack Rieley, searching through old threads only brings up broken links so I was hoping somebody knew where I could read it again. I only ask because I'm developing a real fondness for the Surf's Up album and I wanted to read up on it. That album is great by the way, for the longest time I could never get through the first 30 seconds of Don't Go Near The Water but now I adore it. Feel free to share any thoughts on that album while we're at it. Ahhhh, thus, a perfect example as to why I print out the things I print about the BB. I however don't have this, I just wanted to show a sample of how my printing out articles/interviews/blogs/message board discussions is completely legit and not wasteful. :-D You tease. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Myk Luhv on December 02, 2010, 06:35:33 AM On the other hand, you could also just save the text in a document on your computer. That is infinitely less wasteful and is also accessible.
Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: bgas on December 02, 2010, 08:54:11 AM On the other hand, you could also just save the text in a document on your computer. That is infinitely less wasteful and is also accessible. Presuming of course that you constantly back up all your saved info, in case your computer crashes; so you don't lose it all when it does. I know, I've lost it. If he wants to save boxes of paper printouts, I say go for it. Do you index and cross-index them, so you can find things quickly? Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Andrew G. Doe on December 02, 2010, 08:56:35 AM I keep everything in my head, which I carry with me at all times.
Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: bgas on December 02, 2010, 09:02:08 AM I keep everything in my head, which I carry with me at all times. You might want to pull that hat down a bit, then ;D Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Pretty Funky on December 02, 2010, 01:23:51 PM I thought it was here but neither work now. ???
http://smileysmile.net/index.php/jack_rieley_speaks_part_one http://smileysmile.net/index.php/jack_rieley_speaks_part_two Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Dunderhead on December 02, 2010, 01:34:14 PM I thought it was here but neither work now. ??? http://smileysmile.net/index.php/jack_rieley_speaks_part_one http://smileysmile.net/index.php/jack_rieley_speaks_part_two Somebody must have a copy of this, right?...right? :-\ Also does anybody think Surf's Up would be much improved if they had done just a regular version of Riot in Cell Block #9 (perhaps the version from Big Sur Folk Festival) Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: punkinhead on December 02, 2010, 01:50:59 PM On the other hand, you could also just save the text in a document on your computer. That is infinitely less wasteful and is also accessible. Presuming of course that you constantly back up all your saved info, in case your computer crashes; so you don't lose it all when it does. I know, I've lost it. If he wants to save boxes of paper printouts, I say go for it. Do you index and cross-index them, so you can find things quickly? Well, what started as one file: the Smile File...turned into another separate file (both very thick I might add). It is some order, mostly chronologically by printout or by album. Regardless, it needs straightening up Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Dunderhead on December 14, 2010, 12:43:43 PM Still holding out hope that somebody has this!
Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: phirnis on December 14, 2010, 01:18:33 PM I thought it was here but neither work now. ??? http://smileysmile.net/index.php/jack_rieley_speaks_part_one http://smileysmile.net/index.php/jack_rieley_speaks_part_two Somebody must have a copy of this, right?...right? :-\ Also does anybody think Surf's Up would be much improved if they had done just a regular version of Riot in Cell Block #9 (perhaps the version from Big Sur Folk Festival) I used to think "Student Demonstration Time" was their worst song ever until I heard the likes of "Problem Child"... Today I don't even mind Mike Love's lyrics so much, but as a rock song this is just not as convincing or as captivating as it should be. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: monkeytree5 on December 14, 2010, 11:42:50 PM I keep everything in my head, which I carry with me at all times. Then could you please repost the Q&A with Jack Reiley? Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Steve Mayo on December 15, 2010, 06:44:39 AM luckily for me i had these printed out and not in the house when it went up in flames.
if nobody beats me to this, i guess i can find a friend to scan these and upload them... Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: The Shift on December 15, 2010, 07:54:27 AM I keep everything in my head, which I carry with me at all times. Then could you please repost the Q&A with Jack Reiley? Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Beach Head on December 15, 2010, 08:29:11 AM Not 100 percent sure this is what was to be found at those links on smileysmile.net, but I've had this Q&A from the Pet Sound Mailing List stashed on my hard drive for some years now.
(Posting it in four parts, as it WAY exceeds the maximum allowed length.) ****************************************************** Subject: what's the deal here? From: Jack Rieley To: Beach Boys list (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Oct 4 1996 - 3:20pm Historical society? Trivia collectors? Freaks? Musicologists? It would be helpful to know, first off, what this list is all about. - Jack Rieley ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: thankz for the explanation From: Jack Rieley To: Beach Boys list (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Oct 4 1996 - 7:46pm Appreciate the intro to your list. Briefly, - I got involved with them because I believed then, as I do today, that Brian Wilson is the greatest composer of this century. At the same time, having seen their absurd, hideous live show (string-of-hits, striped shirts, bullshit), I felt it criminal to see how the group so misrepresented / ignored / negated / yeah, even violated that unfuckinbelievably gorgeous music. So I was determined to change things. - Have never read a Beach Boys book or article since leaving the zoo. Friends have asked me to, warned me not to, begged me to, etc. Also have not ever granted interviews to anyone writing those books. - I listen to today's music 90 percent of the time, which does not include the Beach Boys. When I have the occasion to hear Brian Wilson's music of the period from shortly after the beginning through about '74, I am enchanted. - Carl Wilson has, for my money, one of the greatest fuckin voices ever recorded. He is also an incredible songwriter when he is inspired. - Still today I miss Dennis very much. Very very much. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: thoughts on what Jack R. said.... From: Jack Rieley To: Beach Boys list (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Oct 6 1996 - 4:44pm okay, on to your comments/questions... you wish someone would do today what i did and change things for them. kewl. i haven't a clue what they are currently doing on stage. i dropped the string-o-hits bullshit in favor of a 2-hour concert that included the then-current songs, stretched-out lesser-known jewels, etc. in that period i had them save the surfing schtick for the encores. You ask... > I'm curious - I don't know much about your involvement with the > BB's (except that you were, what, a manager, for them in the early > 70'?), but I know that some of their most-respected work > (Sunflower, Surf's Up, Holland) were created while you were > around.... Have they asked you, ever, to come back...? Why did you > leave, or were you asked to leave? (Okay, all, now I'm showing my > ignorance...). My only involvement with Sunflower was as a consumer. Pleased you like Surf's Up and Holland. I tried to leave the group when Holland was finished, because I chose not to return to the U.S. -- wanted instead to live in The Netherlands. They insisted I should run things from Amsterdam, a ridiculous pseudo-solution because of the distance involved and the day-to-day need for up-close interaction with BW, CW and DW. When Carl ran into domestic tumult and I wasn't around, he felt let down. I did return on several quick occasions at the request of Brian, Carl and Dennis. Also came back to help the family upon Murry's death (wow, that was a weird week). Eventually it became clear to them that I had lost interest in being zookeeper. You asked as well why I have gave interviews for the books about the group. It was partly because of an overdose of confidentiality I felt toward them for a long, long time. Living in Europe, as I did until 2 years ago, also gave me a healthy dose of disdain for the breathless-supermarket-style of writing that passes as research and journalism here. From what I have been told, the true story of Brian, Carl and Dennis Wilson and those other guys has certainly not been written yet. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: thoughts on what Jack R. said.... From: Jack Rieley To: Beach Boys list (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Oct 7 1996 - 11:32am You wrote: > Okay, now we're getting somewhere. So Jack Rieley, what do you > think of _Stars & Stripes_? Have only heard it once. Don't plan to listen again. > My question: were the Beach Boys surviving doing things that way? > Did they chuck critical respectability to pay the bills, or just > to *increase* the profit? Neither one or the other. The Beach Boys has been a bitter power struggle since shortly after the beginning. Brian Wilson, Dennis Wilson and Carl Wilson represented the creative side: the appeal to musical beauty and romance and funk and get-down and freakz/fanz; Love, Jardine and Johnston represented unbridled commercialism and power. Before I got there, Love, Jardine and Johnston had control. Because Brian or Dennis often didn't bother to show up for meetings, the vote was general 2-3 against them. When I arrived and changed the group's direction, it signaled a change in the power-center as well. With the backing of Brian, Dennis and Carl, I fired Johnston, who had stymied the group's creative cohesiveness. At the same time I encouraged the Wilsons to act as a unit. Votes shifted to 3-2. Interestingly, Beach Boys record and live revenues soared in that period, having suffered heavily in the period that ended with the sales debacles 20/20 and Sunflower. Upon my departure, the Wilsons went back to disarray. Carl was going through terrible domestic problems. Dennis was having a divorce. Brian adjusted poorly to life back in Belair after his highly creative, physically positive (he rode a bicycle daily and lost weight) stay in The Netherlands. Love and Jardine saw the hole in their armour and rammed through to renewed supremacy. Their musical/ideological vision of the Beach Boys was totally different from that represented during my period there. Love's bitter resentment of Brian's musical genius and his newly re-won power meant it was back to shuck and jive. Within a year the Beach Boys had returned to the state they were in before I came along, but with revenues built upon those generated during the Surfs Up, So Tough, Holland, Live In Concert period. Could this have been prevented? The Wilsons should have determined my successor. They did not. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Thanks, Jack!/"Tree" song question From: Jack Rieley To: Beach Boys list (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Oct 7 1996 - 6:17pm You wrote: > My first question would be: how about telling us what really went > on with that wonderful "Tree" song! I know some people on the list > have mentioned they don't like it, but some others, like me have > said they love the song and couldn't imagine anyone else singing > it and giving it the same feeling that you did. Any recollections > other than the "Brian was crying afterward -- and I don't know if > he really was moved by it or just giving me the business" > (paraphrased), would really be welcome. Brian Wilson and I had been talking a lot about the sorry state of the planet back then. He was filled with questions and we went on for hours about it. Forests were dying, the air had turned brown, the earth's future was beginning to appear hazardous to health. When Brian first played the chords and sang the tentative melody for me, he asked what the song should be about and I suggested a single tree as metaphor for the earth; that single tree as metaphor for more than ecology. I fell in love with the chords at once and loved the swelling tension of that droned bass line; the song seemed to lend itself to the lyrical concept. He went nuts for the lyrics when I showed them to him. Loved 'em, memorized the first verse and was singing around the house. Carl and I were positive that Brian had to sing A Day In The Life Of A Tree. We recorded the instrumental track in a few days. On the day we were to record the lead vocal, I was with the engineer in the control room (this was in Belair, at the Bellagio house) and Brian was in the studio. He did a few warm-up takes and then, dramatically animated as was in wont, tore the headphones from his ears and exclaimed that he needed me to help him. I went out into the studio and he pleaded that he just wasn't getting the feeling that I intended with the lyric. "Show me what I'm supposed to do," he insisted, handing me the headphones as he ran to the control booth. I did about 5 takes of the song, all except for the false-setto bit near the end. Each time I screwed up one part or another, and after each take Brian used the talkback to inform me something like, "I see what you mean. But how about the blah-blah part. Do another take so I'll know just how to do the song." And dumb me: I did another take. It was after one of those that Brian burst from the control booth to the studio, laughing loudly, a proclamatory laugh. He rushed me like a bear, raised both arms into the air as would a victorious high school athletics coach and exclaimed that I had just done the final lead vocal! I protested. It was turing into another BW cop-out, I suspected. But by then Carl was there too. He said Brian had told him a couple of days previous that I had to sing Tree. It had all been cooked in advance. To my astonishment, the false-setto bit turned out easy. After Van Dyke's bit, the added voice at the end is Linda Jardine. Reports of Brian crying, with joy or otherwise, upon hearing my vocal are bullshit. You wrote: > Really enjoy your lyrics, also. Did you write songs before you got > involved with the Boys, and did you write any songs after? Not much before. Since then I have. As to "Smile," I certainly have a something to say about that, but must save it for another time. Suffice it to say, the "Smile" tapes as they are reportedly being circulated are not exactly kosher. Regards, - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: FW: Jack Rieley on Dennis Wilson From: Jack Rieley To: Beach Boys list (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Oct 8 1996 - 12:09am Ron, No one could have been a better friend than Dennis Wilson. I met him in New Mexico just weeks after being signed up with the Beach Boys. He was on location for Two Lane Blacktop, the minor opus he did together with James Taylor. Dennis scared the sh*t out of me upon our first meeting, greeting me with a mistrusting stare, scowling and shouting-spitting the words, "So you're the asshole who's supposed to save us, heh? Well guess what, ass hole: I'm quitting the Beach Boys." Speechless, I wanted to crawl back to the rental car and drive off. After staring me down for another long moment Dennis' face changed abruptly to a caring, bashful smile. He put his arms around me. "Carl says you're the best thing that has happened to him!" I was confused, maybe even trembling slightly. It was the odd beginning of a deep friendship. Collaborating with Dennis meant brooding with him, being harsh with his self-indulgence, providing encouragement to his brilliance. When he sat down and played the piano and sang, I could not help but feel excited. He loved his brothers very deeply. He was in awe of Brian; always concerned about Carl. "Gotta watch out for the quiet one," he warned frequently with a wink. I firmly believe Murry convinced Dennis during early childhood that he was a dumb f***. And I am certain that Dennis worked most of his life to live up to his father's definition. Once, in Milwaukee when he met my father, he embraced him and said he was "humbled" to "be in your presence." I must once share with you the bizarre tale of a night in London, long after I had left the group, when Dennis broke down my hotel door because he was afraid I was dying. He was trying to save me. Remind me as well to take time, sometime, to relate the story of Murry's funeral. On a visit to L.A., a year or two after the Holland album, I stayed at Dennis' house in Malibu for a few nights. He was still with Barbara then. I was to fly to Milwaukee in order to visit my dad before returning to Europe. About 4 a.m. on the last night of my stay with them, Dennis came into the guest bedroom and awoke me with a gentleness that grips me still. He looked grim, sad beyond words. "Your brother is on the phone," he said softly, caressing me as a parent caresses a child. My brother had phoned to say our father had died. When we played a free gig at the California state prison for women, I nearly flipped to see how many of the inmates knew Dennis personally. Of course the Manson girls were there, hooting and cheering every song. His solo album may be a bit over the top, but it is filled with so much intensity, so much raw emotion, so much musical mastery and beauty that now, just thinking about it, I get goose pimples everywhere. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: FW: thoughts on what Jack R. said.... From: Jack Rieley To: Beach Boys list (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Oct 8 1996 - 12:12am You wrote: > Maybe this is a dumb question, but did this cause any bad feelings > between Bruce and the three Wilsons? Did Bruce resent the Wilsons? During my time there, Bruce consistently displayed pure, shameless disdain for Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson and Dennis Wilson. > Also, was Bruce's "Disney Girls" put onto Surf's Up (the album) > before or after he was fired...??? Before. Bruce asked me to write lyrics for the song. I declined. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: FW: LANDLOCKED From: Jack Rieley To: Beach Boys list (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Oct 9 1996 - 12:42am You wrote: > Was there an album in the can when you entered into the Beach > Boys? (before "Surf's up - after "Sunflower".. There was a lot of > tracks in the can as we all know and songs like Lady, Loop-de-loop > vanished into obscurity. Did you advice them not to release them > or had they already rejected them? Songs like "Lookin' at > tomorrow" and "Take a load off your feet" was included on > LANDLOCKED - a possible followup to SUNFLOWER. Did the album > LANDLOCKED (or any album) existed when you went into the picture > or is it just a myth Sorry, but gotta make this brief just now. What I am setting out is a broad outline of a very detailed period. Before agreeing to join them I set a few conditions... No more striped shirts or 45-minute-string-o-hits shows, but concerts instead. Brian would agree to finish Surf's Up and to allow its release. Carl would be the musical leader of the band, which he was anyway but never got the authority. Landlocked came to me as an album title because it represented departure: it was meant as a demarcation line, separating striped shirted bullshit that had become irrelevant -- an object of public scorn -- from artistry, new creativity, great new songs. We even had a cover: stark bright white san-serif letters on a stark black field. Then I heard the songs, among which were titles like Loop De Loop and others which were, believe it or not, even more forgettable. I was perplexed: no strategy was worth anything without the goods, and the goods were not there. Embarrassed, I met with Mo Ostin at WB, who listened to the tunes and declared "no way." Toward the end of that meeting, during which Mo explained that WB had already dropped a whole lotta cash by signing them (Mo was a true Brian Wilson fan), I made him a promise: Brian would finish Surfs Up, we would retitle the album Surfs Up but the cover would be miles away from the beach. Mo gave me encouragement to lobby hard for the solution. By then I had seen how Carl had so much incredible composer potential within him, trying hard to get out, so a new album began formulating in my head. The cover was something that caught my eye at an antique shop near Silver Lake. It was a painting and I bought it. Reminded me a bit of the old Brother Records logo, but it was different. Brian flaked out too many times to recall. "There is NO WAY for me to finish that track," he wailed with mock emotion. I reminded him of his promise and he eventually agreed to go into the studio (the living room), where he duly went, albeit with lots of push. Meanwhile, Carl Wilson and I began to write. Long Promised Road began to be created. Then came the seed for Feel Flows. Til I Die became a must. Tree was born. Love, Jardine and Johnston began to get testy about it all. There was a long meeting during which they tried to force me to march into Mo's office and sell him on Loop. I refused and Brian Wilson, Dennis Wilson and Carl Wilson backed me up. Love, sensing that I might be on to something by rejecting the string-o-hits crap as out of date, suddenly came up with Student Demonstration Time, which had Carl and I blushing with embarrassment and which thoroughly disgusted Dennis. Then Jardine demanded that his Feet song go on the album. Johnston got Tears. When Carl and I compiled the album running order, most versions had the Wilson songs on one side and the jive on the other. It was uncool, so we changed to the running order you know. I really liked San Miguel but the thing was just a hook, not a song, so we had to can it. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Beach Head on December 15, 2010, 08:30:11 AM Subject: Re: J.R. & "San Miguel"
From: Retro To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Wednesday, October 09, 1996 12:35 PM > I really liked San Miguel but the thing was just a hook, not a > song, so we had to can it. > > - Jack San Miguel is one of my favorite BB songs. It just rocks. I don't know about it being "just a hook." Dennis wrote (and produced) a gem with that one. It should have been on an album. "Retro" ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: J.R. & "San Miguel" From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 9 1996 - 5:04pm Retro, I still hum it... guess it has always been one of my favorite hooks... has that same special flair of Dancin In the Streets and other gems.... perhaps you should know that the decision to can it was made by Dennis Wilson, with Brian Wilson and Carl Wilson and I supporting him. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: LANDLOCKED From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 9 1996 - 5:13pm Will, It's not always wise to let one's personal feelings toward artists influence our opinion about their art. Johnston has written songs which have clearly touched you, and nothing about his actions need change that. After all, Disney Girls has not been unmasked as a repackage of Mein Kampf. Remember, we all have the option of liking the art while concluding that the artist is a schmuck. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Q for Jack R. From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 9 1996 - 7:10pm I have never heard a word about Love's earthquake song. No, Surfs Up was never meant as an eco concept album. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Surf's Up From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 10 1996 - 1:42pm Paul, Absolutely correct, and thanks for jogging my memory. Fourth Of July was set for the album but then fell victim to glaring envy -- so the world got Feet instead. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 'Til I Die From: Jack Rieley To: Beach Boys list (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Oct 13 1996 - 9:52am Mike, Near the end of recording of the Surfs Up album, in a parking lot off Sunset Boulevard where Love, Jardine and Johnston requested that I join them at some awful vegetarian restaurant, following a meal that they raved about and I detested, after they had complained with particularly venomous fervor about the brothers Wilson, Love took me aside, stared furiously at me, curled his lip and snorted nastily, "Long after you are no longer part of the Beach Boys, I will be writing songs with Brian, and don't you ever forget that." He stabbed the air to emphasize "don't", "you", "ever" and "forget." That wasn't all. I..." he exclaimed, "I AM the Beach Boys!" Love didn't have much good to say about 'Til I Die, Tree, Long Promise Road or Feel Flows. They were depressing. They were downers. They were too ethereal. They were trivial. He accepted the importance of Surfs Up in a commercial sense, but derided its artistic merit. He hated Burlesque more than anything, particularly because its lyric is a about a stripper and even more pointedly because of the last line of that lyric. Fascinating, I thought, considering the man's own private life, that he was so adamant about family values on Beach Boys songs. Burlesque was Brian at his most passionate, most playful, most daring, and it would have made a really cool track on the album. But Love killed it. Brian Wilson created 'Til I Die. No one else. There is a certain moment in that song, as it begins to go into the fade chorus, just as the overlapping voices haunt us, at the split-second the resolve begins, during which -- when I hear it -- time stops, space disappears and E doesn't equal mc2 anymore. Genius. - Jack He sings, "These things I'll be until I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: In Concert From: Jack Rieley To: Beach Boys list (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Oct 13 1996 - 9:53am Leon, During the tour that produced In Concert, Carl and I went out to the mobile truck after the gig to listen to what had gone on tape. Outside of a few out-of-pitch harmonies and the odd flub, one problem real got to us. The two tracks upon which the grand piano was recorded seemed to be out of synch to the rest of the multi-track. We couldn't figure it out. The engineers swore there was nothing wrong with the tape transport. Cables were always a problem, but could they produce a delay? It was eerie. The next day we listened again and the problem remained. Spooky. Eventually we got round to listening to the piano tracks while muting the rest. Nothing seemed really wrong. In fact an engineer put a stopwatch to the solo piano tracks and it never varied in beats-per-minute, from beginning of each song to the end. At last that was our clue. We began muting just the piano and listening to the rest and, sure enough, the band started at a certain b.p.m. but, as a song went on, often speeded-up a bit. Enthusiasm, the live-vibe, whatever you wanna call it, inevitably caused the tempo to increase as songs went along. But Darryl Dragon, who wore earplugs, stayed consistently at the original tempo. He was right, the rest of the band was wrong, but we had to re-record numerous piano parts after the tour. Otherwise, In Concert was really a live album. There were studio overdubs but certainly the album was not "faked." The bit about them not knowing the words to Don't Worry Baby is utter bullshit, as is the assertion that Caroline No was only a studio job. The last time I listened to the album, maybe a year or two ago, it still sounded fuckin great. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: how we met From: Jack Rieley To: Beach Boys list (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Oct 13 1996 - 9:58am I met Carl Wilson, Love, Jardine and Johnston at the Pacifica studio in Los Angeles in 1970. Brian Wilson and I first met personally when he asked me to visit him at the Radiant Radish. During a long broadcast report I did then about the decline and fall of the Beach Boys, I told them the group was acting as though their fans were chumps by doing 45-minute string-o-hits sets; that they looked irrelevant and totally out of touch wearing uniforms on stage; that the music which had touched peoples' hearts -- Brian's music -- was being neglected. They asked and were told that I had previously worked as reporter / news director for a San Juan NBC affiliate. As to those various bios you refer to, I have never read any of them. A couple years after leaving the group, friends cautioned me about an NME article that defamed my character. That one time I read the article and had legal counsel act. A prominent apology and retraction of all negative references to me -- they were all provably false -- quickly appeared in the NME. But I was busy with my own life. I was living in Europe, far from the zoo which interested me less and less. Your reference makes me think I didn't miss much -- I don't really get off on taking legal action. Upon getting to know them, Carl Wilson and I hit it off. Brian Wilson and I hit it off. Later, when I met Dennis Wilson, we too hit it off. Their then-business-manager Nick Grillo and Steve Love disliked me from the start. Love, Jardine and Johnston wanted me on board to improve their image. However, I believed then, as I do today, that the projection of their image depended upon the content of their records and live performances. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Questions for Jack Rieley From: DAUBER To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Monday, October 14, 1996 6:52 PM Never mind the bullocks, here are some REAL questions! 1) Regarding "Take A Load Off Your Feet"--there was a bit of disagreement on what the fade-out vocals were singing. It sounds to me [although I think I'm dead wrong] like "Be sweet to your feet." Others say they think it's "Pete's feet are your feet," and God knows how many other interpretations there have been...do you know/remember??? 2) Another _Surf's Up_ song--"Feel Flows"--has caused some debate. I think that the song is about transcendental meditation. I think it was David "Imponderables" Feldman who said it's about sniffing cocaine. And I've seen MANY people say that it's about...CUNNILINGUS! What's the straight dope on this song??? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Questions for Jack Rieley From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 14 1996 - 11:04pm Dauber, No idea about Feet except the distorted voice sings 'Take care of your feet.' As for Feel Flows, the song was composed, written and recorded under seriously powdered conditions. Carl and I worked on it for days at Bellagio, often getting trapped in laughing jags that seemed unending and thus made the sessions more fun / exciting and the music more daring. The guitar solo is Carl's best in his life. The lyric came to me in the studio early one summer evening just after the solo was recorded. Trapped with Carl in another laugh riot, I somehow managed to overcome the effects and drive over to Carl & Annie's place on Coldwater to write in peace. Half way and numerous lines through the lyric Annie and I got still deeper into one of those laugh jags. I couldn't stop until going out back, stripping off my clothes, jumping into their pool and swimming for a long while, still strongly under the influence. When I came out of the water it was to find that Annie had taken my clothes and hidden them inside the house. Prude me slightly freaked and pouted until I got them back. By then the idea for the lyric changed somewhat and all the lines I feel good about began popping into the song. The middle part, with Carl's unfuckinbelievable solo followed by the synth and flute, is the sound of orgasm, plain and simple. My favorite things on the song are Carl's "ah-yeaahhh-yeah-yeah" rounds during the solo and my "aaaah" exclamation. It's all about orgasm, dewdz. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Dennis Wilson From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 15 1996 - 1:08pm Dennis Wilson's music had little influence from Darryl Dragon. Darryl sometimes enabled Dennis' more over-the-top arrangements, but not the compositions. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: To Jack Rieley -- A Quick Question From: DANIEL LEGA To: Pet-Sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Tuesday, October 15, 1996 3:28 PM Hey Jack, Could you please tell me what the lyrics are in "Feel Flows" that I can't understand -- and which weren't printed in the lyric sheet? It's the part that's I guess you could call the chorus -- and which to me sounded like (everyone prepare to laugh): White glove glistening shadowy flows, Black glove ... Or: Wipe off glistening ... Jack, if you can help me out here I'd appreciate it! Thanks, Dan Lega ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: To Jack Rieley -- A Quick Question From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 15 1996 - 3:42pm white puff glisteny shadowy flow black puff glisteny shadowy flow.... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Attn: Jack Rieley (Surfs Up) From: Rick Mannor To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Tuesday, October 15, 1996 5:28 PM Jack Rieley wrote: > Before agreeing to join them I set a few conditions... No more > striped shirts or 45-minute-string-o-hits shows, but concerts > instead. Brian would agree to finish Surf's Up and to allow its > release. Carl would be the musical leader of the band, which he was > anyway but never got the authority. (snip) > Brian flaked out too many times to recall. "There is NO WAY for me > to finish that track," he wailed with mock emotion. I reminded him > of his promise and he eventually agreed to go into the studio (the > living room), where he duly went, albeit with lots of push. With this post you pretty much addressed my question about Brian's attitude towards the song "Surf's Up" in 1971. However, I'm still curious as to his initial reaction when you made this a condition for managing the band. I would also like to know if he actually tried to redo his vocals and/or suggested the "Child is the Father of the Man" coda. As I stated in my first post, I feel this is the best song the Beach Boys have ever released. It sounds like we have you to thank for it ever seeing the light of day. Rick ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Attn: Jack Rieley (Surfs Up) From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 15 1996 - 8:45pm Rick, Re-read my earlier response and you'll see I was referring to him complaining, wailing MOCK emotion. Brian Wilson loved Surfs Up. He knew very well that it may be one of the most important pieces of music in this century. He was dying for Surfs Up to be acknowledged for what it is, but terrified that it would get ignored, discarded, lost, much as Heroes and Villains was virtually ignored years earlier. In short, Brian Wilson lived in terror of public failure. A lot has been made of his drug use/abuse, which may indeed have had searing effects upon him. But it was the public failure of Heroes to to wow Capitol and thus wow the world that caused him to withdraw. When the withdrawal began to attract notice, Brian's keen senses picked up on the fact. Soon he was feeding off the crumbs of legend available to "Brian Wilson, eccentric recluse" -- a hideous second-best to the public acclaim he was denied. No wonder that he was unsure of my plan to complete Surfs Up and release the track. As related earlier, I changed the album title from Landlocked to Surfs Up. The shift was to principally honor the song's greatness. But the shift was also evidence to Brian that I was serious about making his work shine. At the same time, the re-titling served to prevent Brian from giving in to his terror. The arrangement that you hear on the album resulted from many talks with Brian, and a careful examination of the real Smile tapes -- the originals. Carl and I got Brian's explicit support to remove the originals from the vault and take them to Carl's place on Coldwater, where the two of us listened to songs and snippets, full works and outtakes, night after night after night. Without even an engineer around, we tried mending and splicing the brittle multitrack recordings. Sometimes we succeeded. With the Fire tapes, which were there but damaged (and not by fire), we had to settle for long passages and short gaps. There's much more to say about Smile, of course, but this note is about Surfs Up. The song was in several disjointed, uncompleted sections. Child was clearly intended to be the climax. After many nights of listening -- at least two with Brian on Coldwater with us -- we set out to construct and reconstruct. I first flirted with the thought Brian should sing the lead on the first section, but Brian insisted that Carl do it, and Carl was clearly thrilled. It was the right thing to do. The Brian solo section is of course constructed around Brian's televised appearance for Leonard Bernstein. Carl played the bottom end synth, I decided to cut all effects from Brian's voice on the title line. We had lots of musicians in to redo parts of the track that had been played badly. Recording went on for several weeks, with Brian very involved but Carl heading the effort. It was going to be a masterpiece. By the time we got to Child, some of the moving parts had Brian excited and active. He chose Carl for a couple, took on a two for himself, assigned two more to me, got Marilyn for still another. Desper seemed to realize he was recording something extraordinary: his acid humor was replaced by, ahh, reverence. Credit for the brilliance of Surfs Up, the recorded song, must be shared by Brian Wilson, who composed that incredible crown jewel, and Carl Wilson, who guided and nurtured the amazing recording project, in addition to singing a truly spectacular lead vocal. My own role was to fight through Brian's terror with honor, respect and enthusiastic persistence, so that you all could hear Surfs Up. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Beach Head on December 15, 2010, 08:31:03 AM Subject: Re: SURF:S UP
From: SMILEY SMILER To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Thursday, October 17, 1996 7:07 AM On Thu, 17 Oct 1996, David Prokopy wrote: > a children's song, ???? > their song is love, and the children ???? I believe it's a children's song, have you listened as they played? their song is love, and the children know the way. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: SURF:S UP From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 17 1996 - 12:19pm correct. - jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: SURF:S UP From: dave prokopy To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Thursday, October 17, 1996 12:22 PM > I believe it's > a children's song, have you listened as they played? > their song is love, and the children know the way. that basically what i thought, too, but i've heard different interpretations. at any rate, then my NEXT question is, who wrote this? are these parks' words from 1966, or someone else's words from 1971? certainly, neither of the two vocal performances of the song that still exist from 1966 (i.e., the two solo performances brian did for CBS) contain this couplet, but possibly just because brian was too busy singing the "ahhhh" part at the end. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: SURF:S UP From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 17 1996 - 12:22pm The couplet was written during the recording of the moving backgrounds for the Surfs Up album. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: SURF:S UP From: dave prokopy To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Sent: Thursday, October 17, 1996 1:39 PM > The couplet was written during the recording of the moving > backgrounds for the Surfs Up album. by whom? you? brian? carl? al? van dyke? (sorry to pester you about this - as many people on this list know, i'm a HUGE Smile fanatic, so these little tidbits are indespensible to me!) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: SURF:S UP From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 17 1996 - 1:47pm Dave, There's no writer's credit officially given, so I am somewhat reticent about this question. How about this.... it was not Brian, Carl, Jardine, Love, Johnston, Van Dyke Parks, Dennis or Steve Desper. Perhaps you will excuse this admittedly chicken-sh*t way around your question. The couplet's authorship should of course have been credited. It was not. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: To Jack Rieley -- Another Quick Question From: DANIEL LEGA To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Thursday, October 17, 1996 5:30 PM Hi Jack, In case you haven't figured it out yet, I wanted to warn you that there are lots of people, like myself, on this list who are just absolute freaks where "SMiLE" is concerned. (I was even driven to write a 19 page double-spaced paper about it that was subsequently printed in the Beach Boys Australia fan magazine, after picking up the first few CD bootlegs in the early '90's.) So just to continue on the thread that's been going on, here's another quick question: The bootleg, 1966, version of "Child Is Father Of The Man" is a different melody from that now attached to the "Surf's Up" ending. Now you just sorted stated that you wrote the couplets about the "Children's song . . ." My question is whose idea was it to sing the "Child Is Father Of The Man" line itself at that spot, and when was this decided -- 1966 or in the 70's when "Surf's Up" was being put back together? Thanks, Dan Lega ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: To Jack Rieley -- Another Quick Question From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 17 1996 - 6:44pm The decision was made by Brian. He stated clearly that it was his intent all along for Child to be the tag for Surfs Up. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: manager From: Jack Rieley To: 'Beach Boys list' (pet -sounds@lists.primenet.com) Reply-To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 17 1996 - 8:09pm Page, You wrote: > For this reader, this was Jack's most revealing post to date. It > speaks volumes... about the thankless work of managers and the > short memory spans of many, many artists. This is absolutely > amazing. Page Several persons on this list refer to me as having been the "manager" of the Beach Boys. It is a title that I consistently refused, both within the group and without. When forced by circumstance to take a title back then, I elected "career direction." - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Brian's withdrawal From: Steven Dunn To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Friday, October 18, 1996 6:27 AM First of all, Jack you are a star for being active in this group. Your insight is compelling and your comments are so well expressed from someone who clearly REALLY appreciates the music. I now look forward to reading your emails with unheralded enthusiasm. Add my name to the many, who are keen to hear more on Smile. Now excuse me questioning your comments but in an earlier mail you wrote: > In short, Brian Wilson lived in terror of public failure. A lot has > been made of his drug use/abuse, which may indeed have had searing > effects upon him. But it was the public failure of Heroes to wow > Capitol and thus wow the world that caused him to withdraw. I had always thought that it was the failure to complete Smile that caused his withdrawal. H&V wasn't released until mid 67 after Smile was ditched (and after his withdrawal had started?), and then it reached top 5 in the UK and top 10(?) in the US, which wasn't a total failure. Can you please elaborate/put me right ? While on the subject, I've found the final sequence on the bikes in Hawaii (from American Band) where Brian looks back the camera so very poignant. I can almost hear him saying 'I'm so very sad and tired and I've had enough.' regards, Steven ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Brian's withdrawal From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 18 1996 - 4:27am Steven, Until joining them I also thought Brian Wilson had gone recluse because he hadn't completed Smile. That was, after all, the line which the press had taken. It turned out that Derek Taylor, one time mastermind of press for the Beatles, invented that version in an attempt to create a Beach Boys mythos. Reality would have been a more compelling tale. Brian blirted it out one evening at Bellagio, and later spoke about it several times in agonizing detail. He had expected that Heroes would be greeted by Capitol as the work which put the Beach Boys on a creative par with the Beatles. All the adoration and promotional backup Capitol was giving the Beatles would also flow to his music because of Heroes, he thought. And the public? It would greet Heroes with the same level of overwhelming enthusiasm that the Beatles got with record after record. As it was, Capitol execs were divided about Heroes. Some loved it but others castigated the track, longing instead for still more surfing/cars songs. The public bought the record in respectable but surely not wowy zowy numbers. For Brian, this was the ultimate failure. His surfing/car songs were the ones they loved the most. His musical growth, unlike that of Messrs. Lennon and McCartney, did not translate into commercial ascendancy or public glory. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: pet-sounds-digest V1 #472 From: Noble Surfer To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Saturday, October 19, 1996 5:53 PM Jack, this is something that has ALWAYS pissed me off about the Beach Boys. It;s almost as if Karma predetermined that The Beatles would be expected to change and grow while the Beach Boys were expected to remain in striped shirts, woodies and Pendletones for the rest of their lives. Maybe you could answer why the public and trhe record biz weasels had such a short sighted view of Brian and his music. It saddens me greatly that SGT PEPPER abd the WHITE ALBUM (not meant as a slam at those records because I am also a Beatles fan) are praied and wprshipped by th general public while PET SOUNDS, SMILE, FRIENDS, ect languish in obscurity at the same time that the Beach Boys score a fluke hit with a stupid Carribean novelty song. Maybe Brian really wasn't made for these times? Maybe Mike Love really was right? Maybe SMILE really would have changed their fate? I don't know. So many questions. I just wish that the public's last image of the BB isn't one of overweight grandfathers in Hawaiian shirts and bermuda shorts and dumb oldie medleys just like I wish the lingering public image of Elvis isn't one of a fat, drug addict in a white jumpsuit singing "Make The World Go Away" or other Las Vegas "standards." Regards, Rob "Noble Surfer" McCabe ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: pet-sounds-digest V1 #472 From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 19 1996 - 7:24pm Rob, I will be blunt. The Beatles were focused, strategic, professional and well led during the years of their mounting ascendancy in critical and commercial acclaim. John Lennon and Paul McCartney, the creators, spoke the same "line" as did George Harrison and Ringo Starr. There was true career direction, which the group followed carefully. During that same period The Beach Boys were divided, unprofessional and horrendously led. Brian Wilson, the creator, had the respect of his brothers but not of the others in his band nor of their manager. The brothers spoke one "line" while Love, Jardine, an emerging Johnston and Murry Wilson spouted another. There was no career direction to speak of and chaos reigned. Tragically, the same parameters held true during most but not all of the group's career. An exception, I contend, was during the period in which I guided their career direction. To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: BW music From: Leonard Hyde To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Thursday, October 24, 1996 6:38 PM Re: Brian's music during the Pet Sounds/Smile era: on Pet Sounds, he was still writing whole songs. Beginning with Good Vibrations, something seemed to change. Brian became obsessed with 'pocket symphonies.' Both GV and Heroes feature Brian getting hooked on little melodic lines, and trying to build huge productions out of them. In GV, it was the opening bit "dum - de dum dummm de dum dum," etc. In Heroes, it was the "Heroes and Villains, come see what you've done" part. When I listen to the Good Vibrations "birth pangs" (as I call them,) you can hear the song grow and grow. When Brian came up with the final product, it was far and away the culmination of the effort in every manner. However, listening to early segments of "Heroes," it seemed the more Brian worked on the record, the more it lost. The "Smile" segments are fascinating exercises in musical expression, whether Brian ever intended to use all of them or not. The 'cantina' version was far better than the version Brian eventualy released. Hal Blaine said in David Leaf's book that Heroes was at one time a hell of a song, way better than GV. Brian just kept tinkering and tinkering and polishing and polishing until there wasn't much left. One reason for the record's failure (#13 on Billboard isn't what most artists would regard as a failure) was it's inaccessibility. What the hell is it about, anyway? There are visions of the Southwest and old Mexico, but how much did that mean to teenage record buyers? It meant nothing at all to me, I can tell you. Conversely, I had no problem figuring out what GV was about. So, it must be debated if the record in ANY form would have been the hit Brian expected it to be. At any rate, Brian sure set himself up for a fall, with all the hype, planning the release date by astrology, hand delivering the record to KFWB by limousine at midnight, etc. Jack Rieley has verified that Heroes' failure was the last straw to Brian at that point. Wasn't there anyone around him to tell him the record wasn't that good? Or, was everyone else so caught up in the Brian mystique by then that they all actually believed it was a great record? Jack, can you shed any light on this? Lastly, re: GV: there is a version floating around that has been tabbed as 'the record Brian almost released." Dick Clark played it once, and I heard it once on a satellite oldies station, believe it or not. It's similar, but different. It has the electric bass in the middle, and (I think) the "om de om oh dee oh" middle bridge. Where can this cut be found? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: BW music From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 24 1996 - 8:06pm Leonard, My sincere compliments on a keen analysis that is right on target. Without getting too much into detail in this note, I can confirm that the longer Brian Wilson worked on Smile's tracks, the more they degenerated. Early versions were brilliant -- brisk, melodic, innovative and, yes, even funky at times. Songs and fragments alike were outstanding. But Brian had no collaborators, no peers, no one to encourage him and point the way. There were the in-group and in-group-circle and in-house-Capitol detractors and backbiters and naggers. But no one was there to insert continuity to the fragments or to declare a track ready when it was ready. In the absence of approval, Brian labored on long after certain tracks were done, trying to improve on music that needed no improvement. Indeed, the process led to an extraordinary degradation. Reconstructing events was easy because there were all those tapes, complete with carefully dated boxes, track sheets et all. Brian Wilson did present the original Heroes to Capitol and the group, but neither reacted with enthusiasm. Carl and Dennis were alone in wild praise for the track. So, as you correctly presumed, he labored on to "improve" it, and lost so much in the process. Of course you are right as well in observing that the lyrics, as much as we may love their poetry, also contributed toward making Heroes a hard sell. Again, congratulations on your very kewl analysis. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Beach Head on December 15, 2010, 08:31:59 AM Subject: Re: BW music
From: Daniel Lindeberg To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Thursday, October 24, 1996 9:33 PM > Lastly, re: GV: there is a version floating around that has been > tabbed as 'the record Brian almost released." Dick Clark played it > once, and I heard it once on a satellite oldies station, believe it > or not. It's similar, but different. It has the electric bass in > the middle, and (I think) the "om de om oh dee oh" middle bridge. > Where can this cut be found? It's on just about all of the SMiLE boots plus, the SS/WH 2fer and the GV box. BTW, how would you describe the difference in ability to (with the lyrics, since that for some strange reason is what you don't like about H&V) communicate with record buying teenagers between Strawberry Fields Forever (classic?) and Heroes And Villains (trash?) ? Daniel ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: BW music From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 24 1996 - 8:10pm Daniel, Don't cast aspersions on the lyrical assessment. Remember the key difference: the Beatles were a unified group with coordinated career direction telling one clear story, while the Beach Boys were wracked by disunity, lack of support for the musical heart, and a total absence of career direction. Since perception was, as it remains, 90% of reality, it made Strawberry Fields (and other tracks) a much easier sell than was Heroes. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Why won't Jack Reiley address these questions? From: Zev Bacon To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Friday, October 25, 1996 12:16 AM Jack, Reading your posts has been most informative and simply a pleasure. It's really cool that you take the time to answer the many questions about your involvement with the Beach Boys. It's interesting to hear the many tales of the ups and down of the Beach Boys during the early 1970's from someone who was actually present during that time. I, like many others who have read your posts, have been intrigued by your subtle mentions of the Smile album. On several occasions in the many posts that you have submitted, you refer to the Smile album and state how these Smile tapes which have been made available to the public by many different sources are not completely genuine. I have got to ask you, since you obviously have had access to the genuine Smile tapes through your involvement, how much of Smile was actually finished and in your opinion will we, the public, ever get the chance to hear more of the greatness which is embodied on them? There are also a few tracks from the album which clearly lack lead vocal tracks on them. For example, Child is the Father to the Man, Barnyard, and Love to Say Da Da, just to mention a few, seem to be missing a lead vocal track on them. It was consistent throughout this period that Brian would record guide vocals for the Boys so that they could learn how to sing the parts as Brian wanted them to be sung. Knowing that the Boys themselves did not record their vocal parts for a significant portion of the album, my question is, did Brian record guide vocals for the Smile tracks, and if he did, did they still exist at the time you were involved? Did you actually hear them? Also, which portions of the tapes available to the public through various bootlegs are not genuine, and which are? Was there ever any effort to "finish" the tapes in the early 1970's? I understand that there are many questions in my posting here. I thank you in advance for taking the time to answer!!! Zev ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Why won't Jack Reiley address these questions? From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 25 1996 - 7:22am Zev, Oh we doooo get rather dramatic around here, don't we? Your message header "Why won't Jack Reiley address these questions?" reads like the puss spewn across American television airwaves by Geraldo Rivera and Rush Limbaugh. Obnoxious in its implication, your tone really turns me off, dewd. It would take me several days of recollection and another few days of research to answer yours and other questions fairly, even if my responses were to be very very bief. I haven't found such time yet. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: The grave digger From: Jack Rieley To: 'Beach Boys list' (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Oct 26 1996 - 7:48pm With Brian, Dennis and Carl Wilson cheering me on, I had just gone into hock for much too much in order to acquire a classic 1954 Bentley R type, previously owned by the British charges d'affaires in L.A. The wooden picnic tables, the foot pedal which greased the car and its solid ride thrilled me, even if the right-hand drive was difficult to cope with. Brian came out to my place in Topanga Canyon and insisted upon acting as my driver for an afternoon. He even brought and wore a chauffeur's cap. We visited all the spots -- a Piggly Wiggly, some smorgasbord place in the Valley, the dry cleaner and a wine shop where I picked up an expensive Medoc. My driver was in a particularly happy mood -- we spent the day laughing a lot. Late the following afternoon my phone rang. Marilyn was hysterical. "Come quick! ... It's awful!! .... Please hurry!" There were no explanations, not that I sought any: Brian was in big trouble. The Bentley performed more than adequately, getting me from Topanga to Bel Air in no-time-flat. When I pressed the button next to the gates at Bellagio, Marilyn shrieked with worry. "At last! Please, drive thru! Hurry!" The gates swung open, I drove the final bit and rushed into an open front door. Mar was in the kitchen, looking through the big window that overlooked their enormous Belair pool and garden. Her tears would not stop flowing. "He's there," she managed, pointing to a spot far back in the yard. I looked, could not believe what I saw, then thought carefully how to deal with the situation as I walked slowly out to the spot where Brian Wilson stood. He was gripping a big shovel and he was concentrating mightily on digging a hole. It was more than 6 feet long, a couple of feet wide and it was getting deep. Was Brian aware that I had walked out to him and was indeed but a few feet away? I believe he was but shall never know for certain. In any event, he continued digging away. Shuffling methods of dealing with the crisis in my mind, I said nothing for a long moment, and he did not acknowlege my presence. Finally I mustered a cheery "Hi Brian! How ya doin?" He turned to me, smiled fleetingly as one does upon seeing a friend, then -- with a good deal of drama -- he threw that shovel to the ground. "I'm pissed off!" he declared. Silence. And then: "I've been diggin this grave for hours, tryin to get it just right. But you know what? Fuckin Mar refuses to cover me up with dirt when I get in!" His tone was angry. I stared at him, began to open my mouth, but words did not come to me. Our eyes now met, my dumb stare meeting his frustrated, angry glare. After a few seconds Brian Wilson suddenly broke into peals of loud guffawing laughter. He continued to laugh, eventually I joined in with him. The joke was over. The prank was complete. The comedian's bit had reached its punch line. He came up to me, still reeling with his own loud laughter, put a hand on my shoulder, and we walked back toward the house. Soon Marilyn, who had apparently watched it all through her kitchen window, came outside and joined us, she now laughing too with that fog-horn laugh of hers that I loved to imitate. We never spoke of the incident again. Never. Today, nearly 25 years later, I still haven't got a clue whether Brian Wilson was on this side or that side of the line on the afternoon he dug his own grave. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Question for Jack Rieley From: Steve M. To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Wednesday, October 30, 1996 12:13 PM Hello Jack, I have really loved your posts to this list. The list was really drying up. Talk had gotten so bad that people were discussing who smoked a cigarette on an album cover. I have been a long long time fan. From the begining..a true old fart you might say. My favorite time to be a beach boy/brian wilson fan was the time of '69-'74. Right in the middle of your tenure with the group. I really liked "Sunflower" when it came out. But I was blown away by "Surf's Up". To me the group owes its exsistence to that Lp and the turnaround it created in the public's mind. The Rollong Stone 2 issue/cover story, the "Surf's Up" lp review, the Sept C. Hall shows in Ny, and the live shows. God I loved the shows back then. What entertainment! I want to thank you for all of that. And thanks again for your posts. It brings back a lot of great memories. My question is this..... what was Brian like during the recording of "Spring". Did he really produce or was his name just listed to try to help "sell" the lp. What was the recording of the Lp like? Under what environment was it recorded? By the way.... I like your vocal tag on "Down Home" (down home is just a memory.. :) ). Thank you. People owe you a lot of thanks for your work and caring about the Beach Boys and their music. More than most will ever know. Steve Mayo ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Question for Jack Rieley From: Jack Rieley To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com Date: Oct 30 1996 - 1:54pm Steve, I used to have a wonderful dog whose name was Bingo The Magic Dog, and he was well know for being loving, friendly, fun-filled and capable of speaking/howling the word "hello." Incredible but really true. Bingo was almost always in a great mood, unless I left him at home alone, when he would show his distaste for my neglect by finding and chewing on recording tapes. Good friends loved Bingo as I did. Brian Wilson, Dennis Wilson and Carl Wilson adored him, as did Audree and Mar and Annie and others. The dog seemed to be happy, but a couple of times -- when I drove out to the country with Bingo to give him a real run -- I wondered about his self-esteem. He'd run free and run some more and keep on running until he found some cow dung. Inevitably he began rolling in it. Ecchhh. Somehow that's the metaphor which always comes to mind when I think of Brian's involvement with Spring. Brian was definitely rolling in the Spring project, but he seemed not to care much about it. They got the "B" and "C" songs, he dutifully did his shtick and on rare occasion we actually had fun with it. Like on Down Home. Brian's relation to Diane, who he seemed seldom to notice for months at a time, warmed during Spring. And when Murry died, by the way. But he never exuded pride at all about the project. Never in my presence. Sorry about all the still unanswered posts. I am really busy 16 hours per day these days. Will try to real some and answer them soon. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: ugh From: Jack Rieley To: 'Beach Boys list' (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Nov 2 1996 - 1:50pm Carl & The Passions -- So Tough They were getting recognition once again, this time for the superb music of Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson and Dennis Wilson. Surfs Up was receiving great notices and the group was playing exciting, impressive two-hour concerts instead of forty-five minute string-o-hits shows. A pair of bright entrepreneurs booked Carnegie Hall for the grand return to New York and the event was a triumph. Rolling Stone and Melody Maker, the western world's musical tastemakers-extraordinaire, declared them valid, vital and highly worthy. College students, who had disdained them only a year earlier, now flocked to see and hear and scream and cheer them. The Beach Boys were back. We had to prepare a new album for Warner Bros., which by then was very supportive of the immense progress made. I disliked going to their office on Ivar Street in Hollywood, preferring to work from my little rustic house in Topanga Canyon. Creativity was better in Topanga, but my absence from the office provided both space and opportunity for the losers to plot. As I moved to shift the power balance from Love, Jardine and Johnston to Brian Wilson, Dennis Wilson and Carl Wilson, sparks flew. The non-Wilsons first aligned themselves with Nick Grillo and his trusted assistant Steve Love, both of whom did little to mask their contempt for me and the path I had chosen to rekindle the group. Within a few months, private detectives were hired to follow my car, check up on my friends and dig into my private life. That really got to me. I felt violated. The fun of contributing to their career was disappearing fast. The joy of music was being eclipsed by stench from the swine. You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone was the first basic track I recall being recorded for the album. Brian was really into composing and recording the song, which he did with Carl's funky voice in mind. I titled it and took quite a while to write the lyric. It's one of the lyrics for the Beach Boys that still makes me feel real good to think about. About that time Brian began talking in detail about a massage parlour in West Hollywood and one of the girls who worked there. At first he spoke only of going there for massages. Some days later he began going on and on about the masseuse who he said was turning him on. He was hot for Marcella. One day I arrived at Bellagio to find him showing off a dildo. He needed the dildo, he said, to impress Marcella. His dick was too small, he protested, so he needed the dildo to show off. It was not the first nor the last time that Brian devoted hours to discussing his sexual insecurities. The fact that he had given birth to two girls was, he said, proof that Murry was right: Brian wasn't a real man. Murry fathered three boys, Carl had one and another was on the way, Dennis had fathered boys. But he, Brian, could only father girls. The conversations went on for hours at a time. Then there came the day I was in his living room with Carnie and Wendy when Brian strode in, a huge dildo protruding from beneath his jeans. I was repulsed as Brian caused Carnie to come over to him while he talked about the dildo. When I chided Brian, he reacted by telling his daughters, "Carnie, Wendy... I'm not your father." Soon I evacuated the kids to the garden. The only thing I could think of to quell Brian's fixation was to channel it. Thus it was I who suggested Marcella as the title for a tune Brian had been working on. With my promise to write the Marcella lyric, he jumped into the project with immense enthusiasm. Brian, Carl, Desper and I worked hard on that record. Dennis helped too. The zither was a cool idea but it was mixed poorly. My lyric was minor... efficient at best. On the night we finished the mix, Love came by to give it a listen. He stood in the corner of the control booth behind the mixing counsel as the tape rolled. Rather than really listening to the music we had created, Love began rehearsing his stage moves. He acted out "One arm over my shoulder" by placing his right arm over his left shoulder. "Sandals dance at my feet" had him pointing the index fingers of both hands to downward. "Eyes that'll knock you right over" found him sailing his hands from the side of his head on a downlward arc. And on "Ooh Marcella so sweet" he cradled his crossed arms and rocked them a bit. I nearly got ill. More as soon as I have a chance. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: fresh.... From: Jack Rieley To: 'Beach Boys list' (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Nov 3 1996 - 8:20pm Just heard Pet Sounds for the first time in soooo much time and it still sounds so fuckin great and exciting. Pure joy. - Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Smile From: Jack Rieley To: 'Beach Boys list' (pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com) Date: Nov 11 1996 - 8:15am Damn, my heart was fluttering when we set-up the multitrack at Carl's place to listen to the Smile tapes. I had read every word that had been published about Smile before starting to work with the Beach Boys. Unlike some, I was and remain a real fan of Smiley Smile. But my whole being was going bananas to hear the real thing. I listened to all of the tapes at least 100 times... some of them much, much more. There are frequent moments, phrases, sections and entire passages that excite me more than any released record or CD I have heard. Instrumentation that soars, harmonic structure that tingles the skin, melodic moods that are profound. For example, Heroes and Villains is absolute genius, even though it is fragmented. The Fire tapes are terrifying, even though parts are missing. Cabin Essence is hypnotic, spectacularly so, even though it is unfinished. Wonderful reached only demo stage on Smile. As most everyone knows, the album was not completed. Using today's recording techniques, the raw master tapes could be manipulated and blended by wannabe producers and well meaning fans and hucksters/exploiters, much as photos of total strangers can be transformed into apparently seamless family portraits. But there is no album. If it is ever to be completed, then it must be finished by Brian Wilson and probably supported-assisted-compiled by Carl Wilson. Umberto Eco wrote about an abomination called the Palace of Living Arts in Los Angeles. It features three dimensional, wax, life-size, full-color reproductions of Leonardo's Mona Lisa, El Greco's Cardinal de Guevara and other great works of art. Those who visit are encouraged to have faith in fakes. Smile, the album, does not exist. It is a collection of unfinished works, not just a few of which are masterpieces, a couple others mastersnippets, still more just incompleted bits and pieces. Those who would enhance, blend or hawk Smile as a nearly completed album are mere vendors of fakes. - Jack Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 15, 2010, 09:56:41 AM Thank you for posting that - I have to say I enjoyed reading Jack R's thoughts, specifically on watching Mike's "stage moves" in disgust while reviewing a mix of Marcella, and his thoughts on Smile...it's hard to disagree with any of what he says about it. His analogy of putting together photos is a great one.
Of course temper that with debacles like "Student Demonstration Time" and it puts it all into perspective. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Dunderhead on December 15, 2010, 10:20:59 AM Yeah, excellent, so glad somebody could post that.
Thanks so much Beach Head. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Mahalo on December 15, 2010, 12:19:10 PM Thanx... that is awesome. :-D
Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: filledeplage on December 15, 2010, 12:22:06 PM This is interesting to scan through while multitasking another project. The online message thing seemed a pretty new formula for communication. And it is fifteen years old, now. I did see an interesting interview that Jack did in connection with "Forever," that Billy Hinsche worked on and find that that era of BB music was a newly opened door for social awareness. He seemed to have a true affection for Dennis.
That said, I wonder what his response is to Brian's SMiLE project and whether he regards that as a complete work (which is always a hard call to make, because some art and artists struggle to keep from "tweaking" a work,) to such an extent that the project becomes extremely prolonged. I would liken it to Flaubert's Madame Bovary with which he struggled for 5 years to find «le mot juste» or , the "perfect/precise" word. It seems to me that the Beach Boys, sang, released much of what is released by Brian's band, either in sections, as discussed above, 15 years ago, prior to Carl's death, and that which has evolved since that time has elapsed. Some of the dialogue appears "over the top," as it were, in the name of "candor" with regard individuals, and appears insulting and very offensive. It is well-established that in a business structure, people tend to "clean house" to establish authority and control and the first ones they attempt to "broom out" tend to be the most knowledgeable, as they pose the greatest threat to a new authority figure. I heard that..."Discretion is the better part of valour." Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Steve Mayo on December 15, 2010, 12:38:59 PM thanks for posting that...saves me from doing it... :)
this was over 14 years ago. i remember at the time people were discussing if it really was jack or not. i had a friend who was an "insider" as they say. when i mentioned this to him, he ask me to ask about the spring album. so i did. and yes, he said things about that lp i was told about in advance. so yep...it really was jack. i missed his posts once he quit doing that. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Dunderhead on December 15, 2010, 03:02:34 PM After reading through all that just a couple of questions came to mind.
1. Burlesque. Does this circulate? I've heard this song mentioned before, was it left unfinished, or as a demo? I'd love to hear it. 2. Did Bruce really get fired? I only ever heard that he "left" the band, I imagine Rieley's influence on the band caused his leaving either way, but I'd be interested to know if he was actually fired. 3. Rieley makes it sound like Brian was improving during the time in Holland but his contributions to that album were minimal, was he really doing that well? I think I've heard Brian himself describe that period as being especially unhappy. Also do people really like 4th of July? I don't know if Feet was a better choice, but 4th of July always sounded like it was missing something. I'd be interested to hear other opinions. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Andrew G. Doe on December 15, 2010, 03:27:04 PM 1 - it exists, Jack sang me a couple of lines when I interviewed him in London, summer 1982. Hard to judge from that.
2 - depends who you listen to: Bruce says he quit for the good of the band, Brian says he was fired. 3 - re-reading those posts some 14 years on, and stacking them up against research conducted in the interim, it's evident that some of Jack's recollections are questionable. Caveat emptor. "4th Of July" - love it, but you have to recall that a final mix was never made: what we hear on the box set is a 1992 construct of two separate masters (one a safety) and a work vocal by Carl. I'm guessing it would have had bvs as well. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Dave in KC on December 15, 2010, 05:26:19 PM After reading through all that just a couple of questions came to mind. 1. Burlesque. Does this circulate? I've heard this song mentioned before, was it left unfinished, or as a demo? I'd love to hear it. 2. Did Bruce really get fired? I only ever heard that he "left" the band, I imagine Rieley's influence on the band caused his leaving either way, but I'd be interested to know if he was actually fired. 3. Rieley makes it sound like Brian was improving during the time in Holland but his contributions to that album were minimal, was he really doing that well? I think I've heard Brian himself describe that period as being especially unhappy. Also do people really like 4th of July? I don't know if Feet was a better choice, but 4th of July always sounded like it was missing something. I'd be interested to hear other opinions. About number 3, Brian sure enjoyed the hard cider while he was there. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: 18thofMay on December 15, 2010, 06:09:04 PM Reading Jack's comments really were awesome a great experience.Thanks
Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: RadBooley on December 15, 2010, 09:34:22 PM When Jack Rieley mentions the SMiLE tracks being ruined by Brian's attempts to improve them, are there any specific examples he's citing? Maybe I'm just used to all the SMiLE versions out there but nothing seems terribly overproduced (at least to the point of the tracks becoming unlikable). Did these versions he's referring to never see the light of day or have we all just been accustomed to what they sound like?
Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Dunderhead on December 15, 2010, 11:45:06 PM I think he's talking about early versions of Heroes. If you listen to the November '66 demo you get the impression the song would have been Heroes Verse/I'm In Great Shape/Barnyard, and from what I understand none of Brian's mix attempts from that period have been heard by fans. In '67 Brian cannibalized Worms and put the Bicycle Rider part into Heroes, and those later attempts that we've heard are what Rieley is talking about, Brian fussing with the sequencing and moving away from his earlier, more interesting ideas.
Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: RONDEMON on December 16, 2010, 06:54:06 AM Loved Jack's story about Brian and the masseuse. Hilarious and reallllllllly weird.
Brian telling his kids he's not their father - wtf? hahaha Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: filledeplage on December 16, 2010, 07:59:41 AM thanks for posting that...saves me from doing it... :) this was over 14 years ago. i remember at the time people were discussing if it really was jack or not. i had a friend who was an "insider" as they say. when i mentioned this to him, he ask me to ask about the spring album. so i did. and yes, he said things about that lp i was told about in advance. so yep...it really was jack. i missed his posts once he quit doing that. You are welcome. I can only read that blurb in small doses. Some of it lacks credibility for me; for example, I find it hard to swallow that Carl objected to Student Demonstration Time, when the "demostrations" were ani-war and Carl was a Conscientious Objector. Carl had been in and out of court as a result of his anti-war stance and the killings on the Kent State campus, by National Guardsmen in 1970, about which Neil Young wrote "Ohio" and CSNY performed...My first Beach Boys show was a day or so after Carl had been arrested for draft evasion. It was "current events" news, and people were holding their breath to see if he would be released for the concert. People questioned whether Carl was sincere in his anti-war stance, and whether it was simply that he did not want to serve and whether it was "inconvenient" for the band to be without him. That said, I have to qualify that this is a fan's "take" on whether or not this is actually true, but it seems so "off the wall" but this song did have a great impact on college students, when they did it in concert, in the wake of the Ohio State murders and the sporadic shutdown of adminstration buildings, during sit-ins, in protest of the Vietnam War. AGD said "caveat emptor" or "let the buyer beware." I agree 100%. Looking at a 1996 web page dialogue, and applying a 2010 "lens" is very dangerous. At that point the time elapsed between "Surfs Up" and the "dialogue" was about 25 years. Analyzing in a "contemporaneous" manner is more appropriate, in my humble opinion. You analyze it in the time block in which it was composed. It does not mean that the music is not "timeless" but only raises the question of whether it was something that was "reflective" of what was going on in society at the time and whether it "typified or embodied" a "point of view" as "Ohio" did in the wake of the killings on the Kent State Campus. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Mike's Beard on December 16, 2010, 10:22:57 AM 1 - it exists, Jack sang me a couple of lines when I interviewed him in London, summer 1982. Hard to judge from that. 2 - depends who you listen to: Bruce says he quit for the good of the band, Brian says he was fired. 3 - re-reading those posts some 14 years on, and stacking them up against research conducted in the interim, it's evident that some of Jack's recollections are questionable. Caveat emptor. "4th Of July" - love it, but you have to recall that a final mix was never made: what we hear on the box set is a 1992 construct of two separate masters (one a safety) and a work vocal by Carl. I'm guessing it would have had bvs as well. When I listen to "4th of July" I always imagine that Dennis would have come in behind Carl on the chorus if it had been completed. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Emdeeh on December 16, 2010, 10:54:53 AM for example, I find it hard to swallow that Carl objected to Student Demonstration Time, when the "demostrations" were ani-war and Carl was a Conscientious Objector. Carl's objections to SDT may have been for artistic reasons, rather than anything to do with his personal politics. The Beach Boys had been performing "Riot in Cell Block #9," the source song for SDT in concert, to rave reviews. He may have wanted to record the original song instead. My husband dislikes SDT because he feels that the lyrics are a weak attempt at topicality. Ironically, the original "Riot" lyrics wound up being more topical than the rewrite after Surf's Up came out, because of the Attica riots. Perhaps Carl was prescient. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Myk Luhv on December 16, 2010, 10:59:35 AM "Student Demonstration Time" is a terrible song because of the flaccid second half where, instead of advocating more protesting and whatnot, you get gems like "I know we're all fed up with useless wars and racial strife / But next time there's a riot, well, you best stay out of sight" and the "Stay away when there's a riot going on" refrain. Real progressive and supportive there, Mike. (http://sae.tweek.us/static/images/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)
Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: filledeplage on December 16, 2010, 11:51:09 AM "Student Demonstration Time" is a terrible song because of the flaccid second half where, instead of advocating more protesting and whatnot, you get gems like "I know we're all fed up with useless wars and racial strife / But next time there's a riot, well, you best stay out of sight" and the "Stay away when there's a riot going on" refrain. Real progressive and supportive there, Mike. (http://sae.tweek.us/static/images/emoticons/rolleyes.gif) There may be more here than meets the eye. There is a fine line between what is "permissible free speech" and "promotion of anarchy," which can be harshly looked upon, legally. What looks "weak" may have been the legal "safe ground" for protest. The "artistic" may have taken a back seat to "getting the message out," that the Band supported much of what the issues which were in controversy. And Carl may have been a bit "prescient" as mentioned above, because the album was released about a week before the Attica prison riots. However, there were demonstrations of almost every sort, against the war, for womens rights, for racial issues, and many bystanders were injured during those events, so the lyrics of "stay out of sight" were probably pretty prudent. And, that song got huge positive responses from the concertgoers who were fed up over the war in Vietnam. And it helped the image of "non-relevance." No one could say that they were stuck in the "car-girly-surf" mode and incapable of connecting with the "slap of reality" of those troubled times. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Matt H on December 17, 2010, 06:47:08 AM It would be interesting to hear what Riley's thoughts are on the 2004 SMiLE and thoughts on recent work such as TLOS & BWRG.
Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: filledeplage on December 17, 2010, 08:05:22 AM It would be interesting to hear what Riley's thoughts are on the 2004 SMiLE and thoughts on recent work such as TLOS & BWRG. There is a very interesting article which was written in the NY Times, September 18, 2004, which I just "re-found" written by Verilyn Klinkenborg, and the last paragraph is particularly telling. The link is a mile long. It is an op-ed article. Frankly, I struggle with "enhanced résumés." Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Dave in KC on December 17, 2010, 10:28:18 AM filledeplage
what you said above about SDT you nailed it those who say the opposite probably were not around at the time Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: filledeplage on December 17, 2010, 11:54:03 AM filledeplage what you said above about SDT you nailed it those who say the opposite probably were not around at the time Thanks, Dave - that song sort of "harshly embodies" for me, that very fearful stuff, that was going on in the late 1960's and early 70's when I started college. It was a common event to get to school only to find sirens and riot police, responding to either sit-in, an administration building takeover, and often a bomb threat. It was insane. SDT is "harsh sounding" and "cautionary" but only equal to the events going on at the time. Student Demonstration Time sort of "freezes" that moment in time, for me, where peace was not to be found, either in the colleges, streets, prisons, or in Southeast Asia. I found it "timely, socially appropriate and responsible" for the Beach Boys to release and perform such a harsh song. It was not the artful and harmonious "business-as-usual" offering of the Boys, but gave us a musical "place" to put the outrage at the times, and the fear of what might happen if a peaceful demonstration turned violent. Not a pretty song, but very much "on the mark," for those mighty ugly days. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Jim V. on December 17, 2010, 01:36:54 PM 1 - it exists, Jack sang me a couple of lines when I interviewed him in London, summer 1982. Hard to judge from that. 2 - depends who you listen to: Bruce says he quit for the good of the band, Brian says he was fired. 3 - re-reading those posts some 14 years on, and stacking them up against research conducted in the interim, it's evident that some of Jack's recollections are questionable. Caveat emptor. "4th Of July" - love it, but you have to recall that a final mix was never made: what we hear on the box set is a 1992 construct of two separate masters (one a safety) and a work vocal by Carl. I'm guessing it would have had bvs as well. Andrew, do we know what era "Burlesque" is from? Rieley makes it sound like Surf's Up-era. Just seems weird to me that the band would be denying ANY songs with a B. Wilson credit on them at that time. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Dunderhead on December 17, 2010, 02:31:52 PM 1 - it exists, Jack sang me a couple of lines when I interviewed him in London, summer 1982. Hard to judge from that. 2 - depends who you listen to: Bruce says he quit for the good of the band, Brian says he was fired. 3 - re-reading those posts some 14 years on, and stacking them up against research conducted in the interim, it's evident that some of Jack's recollections are questionable. Caveat emptor. "4th Of July" - love it, but you have to recall that a final mix was never made: what we hear on the box set is a 1992 construct of two separate masters (one a safety) and a work vocal by Carl. I'm guessing it would have had bvs as well. Andrew, do we know what era "Burlesque" is from? Rieley makes it sound like Surf's Up-era. Just seems weird to me that the band would be denying ANY songs with a B. Wilson credit on them at that time. AGD's site doesn't list any sessions for the song during the Rieley period but does list is among songs recorded during the MIU sessions. Also what about Sail On Sailor? I've heard that was done during the Surf's Up era and recorded by Desper. I'd love to hear that version. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Jim V. on December 17, 2010, 03:48:11 PM 1 - it exists, Jack sang me a couple of lines when I interviewed him in London, summer 1982. Hard to judge from that. 2 - depends who you listen to: Bruce says he quit for the good of the band, Brian says he was fired. 3 - re-reading those posts some 14 years on, and stacking them up against research conducted in the interim, it's evident that some of Jack's recollections are questionable. Caveat emptor. "4th Of July" - love it, but you have to recall that a final mix was never made: what we hear on the box set is a 1992 construct of two separate masters (one a safety) and a work vocal by Carl. I'm guessing it would have had bvs as well. Andrew, do we know what era "Burlesque" is from? Rieley makes it sound like Surf's Up-era. Just seems weird to me that the band would be denying ANY songs with a B. Wilson credit on them at that time. AGD's site doesn't list any sessions for the song during the Rieley period but does list is among songs recorded during the MIU sessions. Also what about Sail On Sailor? I've heard that was done during the Surf's Up era and recorded by Desper. I'd love to hear that version. I actually asked "Burlesque" relating to the MIU sessions and Andrew said that its a different song from the one that Rieley was talking about. That is definitely one of those songs I hope comes out some time soon, either as a bonus track on a reissued album or on an unreleased/rarities comp. About "Sail On Sailor", well, I have no idea on that one. But I am pretty sure Desper said something like the "released version sounds an awful lot like the one he recorded." I'm pretty sure he also claimed Carl did the original lead vocal or something, as the track and vocal were done before the emergence of Blondie and Ricky. I might be wrong on that one though. Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: bgas on December 17, 2010, 05:26:04 PM 1 - it exists, Jack sang me a couple of lines when I interviewed him in London, summer 1982. Hard to judge from that. 2 - depends who you listen to: Bruce says he quit for the good of the band, Brian says he was fired. 3 - re-reading those posts some 14 years on, and stacking them up against research conducted in the interim, it's evident that some of Jack's recollections are questionable. Caveat emptor. "4th Of July" - love it, but you have to recall that a final mix was never made: what we hear on the box set is a 1992 construct of two separate masters (one a safety) and a work vocal by Carl. I'm guessing it would have had bvs as well. Andrew, do we know what era "Burlesque" is from? Rieley makes it sound like Surf's Up-era. Just seems weird to me that the band would be denying ANY songs with a B. Wilson credit on them at that time. AGD's site doesn't list any sessions for the song during the Rieley period but does list is among songs recorded during the MIU sessions. Also what about Sail On Sailor? I've heard that was done during the Surf's Up era and recorded by Desper. I'd love to hear that version. I actually asked "Burlesque" relating to the MIU sessions and Andrew said that its a different song from the one that Rieley was talking about. That is definitely one of those songs I hope comes out some time soon, either as a bonus track on a reissued album or on an unreleased/rarities comp. About "Sail On Sailor", well, I have no idea on that one. But I am pretty sure Desper said something like the "released version sounds an awful lot like the one he recorded." I'm pretty sure he also claimed Carl did the original lead vocal or something, as the track and vocal were done before the emergence of Blondie and Ricky. I might be wrong on that one though. Here's an earlier SOS thread: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,4413.0.html Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Uncomfortable Seat on December 17, 2010, 06:14:00 PM "Student Demonstration Time" is a terrible song because of the flaccid second half where, instead of advocating more protesting and whatnot, you get gems like "I know we're all fed up with useless wars and racial strife / But next time there's a riot, well, you best stay out of sight" and the "Stay away when there's a riot going on" refrain. Real progressive and supportive there, Mike. (http://sae.tweek.us/static/images/emoticons/rolleyes.gif) There may be more here than meets the eye. There is a fine line between what is "permissible free speech" and "promotion of anarchy," which can be harshly looked upon, legally. What looks "weak" may have been the legal "safe ground" for protest. The "artistic" may have taken a back seat to "getting the message out," that the Band supported much of what the issues which were in controversy. Also, staying "out of sight" gives you the option to go underground . . . Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Matt H on December 18, 2010, 08:23:36 AM Did Rieley ever talk about Ricky and Blondie and his thoughts on them joining the band?
Title: Re: Jack Rieley's comments & Surf's Up Post by: Dove Nested Towers on December 26, 2010, 02:44:02 AM Too bad no asked him about WIBNTLA and its part in the Surf's Up track lineup disagreements. :(
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