Is it time to reappraise 15 Big Ones?

[Mike's Beard]

It's mostly enjoyable enough but weak and a tad cheesy in many aspects. Basically by embracing the 'fun' aspect they killed any chance of ever being taken seriously again. And de-emphising the other Wilson's roles in the band was a BIG mistake. It may have been their highest charting record in a decade but in the long run they had shot themselves in the foot with this one.

[drbeachboy]

It's mostly enjoyable enough but weak and a tad cheesy in many aspects. Basically by embracing the 'fun' aspect they killed any chance of ever being taken seriously again. And de-emphising the other Wilson's roles in the band was a BIG mistake. It may have been their highest charting record in a decade but in the long run they had shot themselves in the foot with this one.

Who was ever taking them seriously? The record buying public surely wasn't. The last great selling album was what- Beach Boys' Party!? Record reviewers? Even when they were taken seriously by them, it didn't help with record sales. In Concert was the only regular release up to 15 Big Ones that sold well, and barely went gold. Most fans want The Beach Boys music to be fun. Like their touring career, they pretty much bowed to the will of the people, and still, they couldn't sell very many records.

[Mr. Cohen]

So, am I right in concluding that most of you strongly disagree with Brian's assessment of 15 Big Ones?

[Alex]

I love it!

[matt-zeus]

I have a soft spot for 15BO, I agree with the earlier sentiments that the more 'Wall of sound' pieces are the more successful. JOIML is the best track on here I think, but I also love 'In the still of the night', both of which have the great Arp synth on it. If they had held on a little longer they could have put on Brians excellent 'you've lost that loving feeling' as that would give the album some extra weight. 'Palisades Park' is good too. Another great wall of sound track from this time is Springs 'It's like Heaven' which given some Beach Boys vocals could have sit nicely on here.
That said, I find 'Blueberry hill' and 'Rock and Roll music' quite hideous.

[punkinhead]

For some reason, Blueberry Hill has grown on me. I always hated that opening vocal with Mike and just the bass, I feel like he played that off too cool. But when the rest of the guys come in for the vocals, that's what does it for me. I love the percussion on this, the drums just carry the tune well. The backing vocals are possibly the best the album has to offer.

[Jon Stebbins]

Someone else up the thread hit on this point...the only reason 15BO seems better decades down the line is because of the weak BB's releases that came in its wake. The BB's had a nearly pristine history of quality releases until 15BO. In the context of 1976 it was a huge artistic disappointment...and really seemed cheesy and small. The worst part about it (besides the cover and the overall lack of originality and balls)is the fact that rock's greatest vocal group didn't sing well on it. Its shoddy in the vocal dept. Yes it has its charms like every other bad BB's thing(other than Looking Back With Love and SIP)...Its OK in itself is plenty of nostalgia...please lets move on...no need for Happy Days...you ARE the BB's. Had To Phone Ya shows Brian still had good track ideas...but he had no focus, he did not want to be there, and he phoned more than that song in. Love You followed...which just confused EVERYONE. Brian had more weird goodness in the quirk tank no question...but it took a long time for people to get it. POB immediately showed Dennis knew his way around big studio sounds, choirs, strings, giant fat bass sounds, synths and production and arrangements just plain better than the other guys, his stuff sounded current, but still artful and twisted in a Wilson-esque way. Then the career burying string of public pants pooping MIU, KTSA, BB85 with L.A. also ruined by the two H's...HCTN and Heroin. Yes 15BO is better than I thought it was in '76, because at that time I thought the BB's would make another great record...Dennis did...but they did not.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I agree to a point, but I LOVE 15 Big Ones, like MIU a lot and LOVE LA! (I would admit to loving KTSA, but..... uh, OK I do!)

I think 15 Big Ones gets reappraised in a positive way because, to my ears at least, it sounds like the group is having fun! I know they most likely were having anything but fun, but when I put the record on... it SOUNDS like they are, therefore I am too!

The originals are all great and the covers, if not exactly earth shattering are well sung, adventurously arranged (for the most part) and in the case of JOIMY especially, manage to be quite emotional.

And yeah, as someone else mentioned, (the detailed personnel notes help) the groups seemed to be working as a unit pretty much exclusively and it just feels good. It's nice to know exactly what songs Dennis is drumming on, and in fact, he does some damn fine work on this album as a drummer!

[Jim V.]

When did Brian say this about the album?

I remember on a podcast that promoted a recent greatest hits package, but I believe it was the 'sequel' to Sounds of the Summer, that the remaining Beach Boys were interviewed about the songs and Brian was asked about It's OK. I think I remember Brian not wanting to discuss the song as it brought back hard memories and such.
So for him to say that about 15 Big Ones surprised me.
But I could see Brian saying that in an interview in the 80s or 90s.

I thought about it, and maybe Brian had bad memories about "It's OK" cuz a lot of it was recorded during '74 and maybe those were the bad memories. Or maybe its just Brian being Brian and contradicting himself.

Apparently in like '98 he said 15 Big Ones was a favorite too. So...hmm.

For some reason, Blueberry Hill has grown on me. I always hated that opening vocal with Mike and just the bass, I feel like he played that off too cool. But when the rest of the guys come in for the vocals, that's what does it for me. I love the percussion on this, the drums just carry the tune well. The backing vocals are possibly the best the album has to offer.

I couldn't stand that song either at first, because of those goofy Mike bass vocals. But now I dig it.

Hasn't Brian said that virtually every album he's had a significant hand on was his favourite at one point or another? Nothing much sturdy to go on here, I reckon...

Honestly, he even said Carl and the Passions and Holland were faves of his too at one point, whereas he wasn't really having a significant hand on either. So I guess, Brian really is just like  the rest of us, feeling different things at different times.

[Myk Luhv]

Has Brian ever said any of the pre-Today! albums are his favourite? I want to hear him exclaim that, like, Surfin' Safari is a great album and more people need to get into it.

[Mike's Beard]

It's mostly enjoyable enough but weak and a tad cheesy in many aspects. Basically by embracing the 'fun' aspect they killed any chance of ever being taken seriously again. And de-emphising the other Wilson's roles in the band was a BIG mistake. It may have been their highest charting record in a decade but in the long run they had shot themselves in the foot with this one.

Who was ever taking them seriously? The record buying public surely wasn't. The last great selling album was what- Beach Boys' Party!? Record reviewers? Even when they were taken seriously by them, it didn't help with record sales. In Concert was the only regular release up to 15 Big Ones that sold well, and barely went gold. Most fans want The Beach Boys music to be fun. Like their touring career, they pretty much bowed to the will of the people, and still, they couldn't sell very many records.

When I said taken seriously again, I meant in a contemporary light. "Endless Summer" had put the spotlight back on the band and given them a second chance to play in the big leagues. And frankly they blew it. You can't pretend you are in your teens in your mid thirties and not look a bit silly. 15BO's is too steeped in nostalgia for it's own good. Considering some of the material Dennis had sitting around, to pass that over in favour of shoddy covers is just baffling. There was NO reason to put Brian back in sole creative position. "Brian's Back" should have just meant Brian returning to a full time contributing member role like in the "Sunflower" era. By putting him back fully in the driver's seat and making a big noise about it, expectations were raised to the point of people expecting another "Pet Sounds" or "Good Vibrations". What they got didn't even begin to come close.

[drbeachboy]

It's mostly enjoyable enough but weak and a tad cheesy in many aspects. Basically by embracing the 'fun' aspect they killed any chance of ever being taken seriously again. And de-emphising the other Wilson's roles in the band was a BIG mistake. It may have been their highest charting record in a decade but in the long run they had shot themselves in the foot with this one.

Who was ever taking them seriously? The record buying public surely wasn't. The last great selling album was what- Beach Boys' Party!? Record reviewers? Even when they were taken seriously by them, it didn't help with record sales. In Concert was the only regular release up to 15 Big Ones that sold well, and barely went gold. Most fans want The Beach Boys music to be fun. Like their touring career, they pretty much bowed to the will of the people, and still, they couldn't sell very many records.

When I said taken seriously again, I meant in a contemporary light. "Endless Summer" had put the spotlight back on the band and given them a second chance to play in the big leagues. And frankly they blew it. You can't pretend you are in your teens in your mid thirties and not look a bit silly. 15BO's is too steeped in nostalgia for it's own good. Considering some of the material Dennis had sitting around, to pass that over in favour of shoddy covers is just baffling. There was NO reason to put Brian back in sole creative position. "Brian's Back" should have just meant Brian returning to a full time contributing member role like in the "Sunflower" era. By putting him back fully in the driver's seat and making a big noise about it, expectations were raised to the point of people expecting another "Pet Sounds" or "Good Vibrations". What they got didn't even begin to come close.

I agree with you on the Brian's Back part of your statement, but the success of Endless Summer is the reason why we got 15 Big Ones and not something closer to Sunflower or Holland. From all that I read of the times, they were in a creative no-mans land. Different members wanting to go into different directions musically. Dennis once mentioned that there was a plan for two seperate album releases; an oldies album and a second original material album. That may have been the proper way to go in 1976. All I can say though is that all the people I know who liked the pre-1966 Beach Boys, but not the post-1965 music, all to a person liked 15 Big Ones and the return to the type of music that was closer to their old style.

[adamghost]

Alan Boyd has repeatedly made the argument, to me and others, that 15BO was sabotaged in the mix and that it's a much better album in raw form than people think.  I was skeptical but he played me a different mix of "Had To Phone Ya" that really was breathtaking, I have to admit.

In the late '70s Brian really was pioneering a sound that didn't really make sense to anyone until about four years later, when bands like the Human League and Ultravox came to the fore.  He really was ahead of his time again, but in the context of '76-'77, those grainy synth textures really were jarring.  Most of the people that were doing that kind of all-keyboard thing had much less aggressive sonic landscape at that time (thinking Gary Wright, Stevie Wonder, Todd Rundgren, etc.).

[Mr. Cohen]

the only reason 15BO seems better decades down the line is because of the weak BB's releases that came in its wake.

I disagree. First, I'm not a big fan of Holland. "Steamboat" has some cool ideas, but it plods. I got tired of the "California Saga" after a few listens. "Californ-i-a", in particular, is just stale countrified remix of "California Girls". And don't get me started on The Flame's song. Some of the other songs are strong, but it's not a great album. The production is more impressive than most of the actual songs, although I think that the production on "Sail on Sailor" was botched somewhat.

I also consider Carl & The Passions to be average. Again, I hate The Flame, and Dennis' songs drench too much syrup on my pancakes. That's half of the album right there. The rest ranks from OK to great. Surf's Up was a stronger release, but "Lookin' at Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)"  and "Student Demonstration Time" were the beginning of the end for me.

I think 15 Big Ones definitely ranks up there with Holland and Carl & The Passions. The strength of Brian and Carl's material on Surf's Up  is the only reason I'd rank it ahead of 15 Big Ones, and I'd say the Sunflower is about the same as Surf's Up.  Sunflower has a little too much Dennis and Bruce for my liking. I liked some of Dennis' songs on Sunflower, but I personally don't think he became a consistently great songwriter until the mid-70s.

[Sound of Free]

I agree with the poster who said it should have had more originals, and they could have done it and fit it into the "get something out now" strategy Warners wanted to capitalize on the Beach Boys revival with the public. I would say keep the originals that were on there as well as "Just Once in My Life" for its quality and "Rock and Roll Music" for its hit potential. Any of the other covers could have been replaced by:

San Miguel - A finished product, a great song, and it fit in with a fun-in-the-sun theme. This should have been a no-brainer to include.

Soulful Old Man Sunshine - "Come on, Carl, we'll just do another take, and you'll sing 'sunshine' instead of 'shunshine.'"

Loop De Loop - If Brian didn't want to finish it, Al could have shepherded the production through.

I'm Going Your Way/California Slide - How has this one never been released?

Adding any or all of these songs at the expense of the weaker covers could have made for a great album and a true, long-lasting comeback.

As an aside, I don't think I've ever hate a love/hate relationship with a song they way I do with "Had to Phone Ya." I love the first half, but I HATE the "you, you, you, you, you, you, you" part. When the song comes up on my iPod, I always listen to the first half but skip through the second.

[bgas]

I agree with the poster who said it should have had more originals, and they could have done it and fit it into the "get something out now" strategy Warners wanted to capitalize on the Beach Boys revival with the public. I would say keep the originals that were on there as well as "Just Once in My Life" for its quality and "Rock and Roll Music" for its hit potential. Any of the other covers could have been replaced by:

San Miguel - A finished product, a great song, and it fit in with a fun-in-the-sun theme. This should have been a no-brainer to include.

Soulful Old Man Sunshine - "Come on, Carl, we'll just do another take, and you'll sing 'sunshine' instead of 'shunshine.'"

Loop De Loop - If Brian didn't want to finish it, Al could have shepherded the production through.

I'm Going Your Way/California Slide - How has this one never been released?

Adding any or all of these songs at the expense of the weaker covers could have made for a great album and a true, long-lasting comeback.

As an aside, I don't think I've ever hate a love/hate relationship with a song they way I do with "Had to Phone Ya." I love the first half, but I HATE the "you, you, you, you, you, you, you" part. When the song comes up on my iPod, I always listen to the first half but skip through the second.

well the original idea, I believe,  was an LP of oldies and an LP of new stuff.  But they couldn't get Brian to sit for a whole LP of new stuff;
 so since there were a lot more oldies, they picked the ones they liked the best, and mixed them in with the others and this is what we got.
Who knows why they didn't just pull some of the mentioned songs and use them. Maybe WB wouldn't go for a double LP? 

[Ron]

I like 15 Big Ones.  I can't listen to the whole album though, to be honest.  To be painfully honest, I can't even get into Just Once in My Life.  It's alright, I just can't listen to it more than every once in a while. 


Here's the thing, in my opinion.  The Beach Boys, and especially Brian but by default most everyone in the band was extremely talented... and it was an organic, natural talent.  Brian has a ton of natural talent.  As a result, he doesn't have to try to be good.  He's naturally good.  You can see this in interviews and things; just the casual off the cuff things he says, even his expressions are funny.  In the studio, when he messes up... it's good.  He's THAT GOOD.  Very talented.

Where he became great though was when he TRIED.  When you take somebody with natural talent, and then on top of that, they put forth a lot of effort, they become great.  The Beach Boys when they tried, were GREAT.  15 Big Ones sounds to me like they weren't trying to hard.  They had it on cruise control and were just fucking around. 

When they recorded say... Surfer Girl, they were likely ALSO fucking around, but they were afraid Murray was going to punch them or the record company was going to sue them or their girlfriends were going to dump them or whatever.... so they TRIED to work their asses off.  By the time they got to 15 Big Ones, they weren't trying anymore.  They were just being themselves and unfortunately that left them with only their natural talent to rely on, and none of their good old hard-earned work your ass off talent to add on top of it.

[MBE]

Someone else up the thread hit on this point...the only reason 15BO seems better decades down the line is because of the weak BB's releases that came in its wake. The BB's had a nearly pristine history of quality releases until 15BO. In the context of 1976 it was a huge artistic disappointment...and really seemed cheesy and small. The worst part about it (besides the cover and the overall lack of originality and balls)is the fact that rock's greatest vocal group didn't sing well on it. Its shoddy in the vocal dept. Yes it has its charms like every other bad BB's thing(other than Looking Back With Love and SIP)...Its OK in itself is plenty of nostalgia...please lets move on...no need for Happy Days...you ARE the BB's. Had To Phone Ya shows Brian still had good track ideas...but he had no focus, he did not want to be there, and he phoned more than that song in. Love You followed...which just confused EVERYONE. Brian had more weird goodness in the quirk tank no question...but it took a long time for people to get it. POB immediately showed Dennis knew his way around big studio sounds, choirs, strings, giant fat bass sounds, synths and production and arrangements just plain better than the other guys, his stuff sounded current, but still artful and twisted in a Wilson-esque way. Then the career burying string of public pants pooping MIU, KTSA, BB85 with L.A. also ruined by the two H's...HCTN and Heroin. Yes 15BO is better than I thought it was in '76, because at that time I thought the BB's would make another great record...Dennis did...but they did not.

Jon, as the guy who brought up what you mention in the first sentence I have to say I agree with you 100 percent.

[Andrew G. Doe]

the only reason 15BO seems better decades down the line is because of the weak BB's releases that came in its wake.

I disagree. First, I'm not a big fan of Holland. "Steamboat" has some cool ideas, but it plods. I got tired of the "California Saga" after a few listens. "Californ-i-a", in particular, is just stale countrified remix of "California Girls". And don't get me started on The Flame's song. Some of the other songs are strong, but it's not a great album. The production is more impressive than most of the actual songs, although I think that the production on "Sail on Sailor" was botched somewhat.

I also consider Carl & The Passions to be average. Again, I hate The Flame, and Dennis' songs drench too much syrup on my pancakes. That's half of the album right there. The rest ranks from OK to great. Surf's Up was a stronger release, but "Lookin' at Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)"  and "Student Demonstration Time" were the beginning of the end for me.

I think 15 Big Ones definitely ranks up there with Holland and Carl & The Passions. The strength of Brian and Carl's material on Surf's Up  is the only reason I'd rank it ahead of 15 Big Ones, and I'd say the Sunflower is about the same as Surf's Up.  Sunflower has a little too much Dennis and Bruce for my liking. I liked some of Dennis' songs on Sunflower, but I personally don't think he became a consistently great songwriter until the mid-70s.

Ummm... 'in the wake' means following, not preceding.

[Mr. Cohen]

Good effort AGD, but if you read the next sentence it goes: "The BB's had a nearly pristine history of quality releases until 15BO."

That's what I was arguing, as it was an integral part of the premise of his first argument.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Good effort AGD, but if you read the next sentence it goes: "The BB's had a nearly pristine history of quality releases until 15BO."

That's what I was arguing, as it was an integral part of the premise of his first argument.

In your post, there is no 'next sentence'. Odd sort of argument that chooses to exclude said sentence when quoting, especially if it was 'integral' to the original premise: may I suggest you have a glowing future in either politics or advertising. Your post, to anyone who can comprehend basic English (and isn't psychic to the degree that they can read a text that isn't actually there) plainly states that you disagree with the opinion that "the only reason 15BO seems better decades down the line is because of the weak BB's releases that came in its wake", then discusses the albums that came before it. You do that in any level of test, your paper would be returned with "fail" across it. I was commenting on what I saw (not on a post from some 24 hours ago) which is, frankly, all I can do.

[Loaf]

Alan Boyd has repeatedly made the argument, to me and others, that 15BO was sabotaged in the mix and that it's a much better album in raw form than people think.  I was skeptical but he played me a different mix of "Had To Phone Ya" that really was breathtaking, I have to admit.

In the late '70s Brian really was pioneering a sound that didn't really make sense to anyone until about four years later, when bands like the Human League and Ultravox came to the fore.  He really was ahead of his time again, but in the context of '76-'77, those grainy synth textures really were jarring.  Most of the people that were doing that kind of all-keyboard thing had much less aggressive sonic landscape at that time (thinking Gary Wright, Stevie Wonder, Todd Rundgren, etc.).

AAAARGH! I love/hate it when you guys with the inside connection do this to me!

How can I hear the remix of 15BO? In my dreams?

Why was it sabotaged? because it was pretty crap compared to what they could have achieved? Who sabotaged it? Brian?


I agree with you that brian was ahead of his time with those synths. Even now LY still sounds like nothing else, really.

[Loaf]

I'm Going Your Way/California Slide - How has this one never been released?


As an aside, I don't think I've ever hate a love/hate relationship with a song they way I do with "Had to Phone Ya." I love the first half, but I HATE the "you, you, you, you, you, you, you" part. When the song comes up on my iPod, I always listen to the first half but skip through the second.

Am I the only who thinks California Slide sounds half-written?

And I love the "you, you" part of HTPY. It sounds like a dial tone, the way they cut-off the end of the syllables.

[Ron]

Hmmmm... it made sense to me.  He quoted that the album seems better because the albums after it were trash, then he explained that to him he disagreed because the albums before it were also trash.  If I were his professor I'd give him a passing grade but what do I know.

[oldsurferdude]

the only reason 15BO seems better decades down the line is because of the weak BB's releases that came in its wake.

I disagree. First, I'm not a big fan of Holland. "Steamboat" has some cool ideas, but it plods. I got tired of the "California Saga" after a few listens. "Californ-i-a", in particular, is just stale countrified remix of "California Girls". And don't get me started on The Flame's song. Some of the other songs are strong, but it's not a great album. The production is more impressive than most of the actual songs, although I think that the production on "Sail on Sailor" was botched somewhat.

I also consider Carl & The Passions to be average. Again, I hate The Flame, and Dennis' songs drench too much syrup on my pancakes. That's half of the album right there. The rest ranks from OK to great. Surf's Up was a stronger release, but "Lookin' at Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)"  and "Student Demonstration Time" were the beginning of the end for me.

I think 15 Big Ones definitely ranks up there with Holland and Carl & The Passions. The strength of Brian and Carl's material on Surf's Up  is the only reason I'd rank it ahead of 15 Big Ones, and I'd say the Sunflower is about the same as Surf's Up.  Sunflower has a little too much Dennis and Bruce for my liking. I liked some of Dennis' songs on Sunflower, but I personally don't think he became a consistently great songwriter until the mid-70s.

Ummm... 'in the wake' means following, not preceding.

You wanna play semantics here? Because it cannot be found in the dictionary, the word "Ummm" does not exist. Neither does "koff".