Between Keepin' The Summer Alive & 1985's The Beach Boys

[jeremylr]

This topic can go in several directions.   I'm looking for a good discussion.  Per the subject thread above, I'm interested in info concerning the period after "Keepin' The Summer Alive" & just before "The Beach Boys" LP came out in 1985.  Here's a few questions/ideas: (ok, a lot)



1.  Why was there such a long break between albums?
2.  Did the BB have another album planned immediately after "Keepin' The Summer Alive?"

3.  If there was another album, what direction might it have taken?
4.   How many BB outtakes are from this era?  Or, are they all solo things?

5.  Did Dennis grant any interviews where he discussed his feelings about the BB not releasing any quality material, Carl leaving, & always fighting?
6.  Did Dennis' tragic death make the band want to record again?

7.  What was the breaking point for Carl?
8.  When Carl left, how did the other BB react in the press?

9.  What made Carl return to the band?
10.  Carl's feelings towards the band & their music during this era......

11.  Thoughts from Brian, Mike, Al, or Bruce concerning this BB era

[Andrew G. Doe]

This topic can go in several directions.   I'm looking for a good discussion.  Per the subject thread above, I'm interested in info concerning the period after "Keepin' The Summer Alive" & just before "The Beach Boys" LP came out in 1985.  Here's a few questions/ideas: (ok, a lot)



1.  Why was there such a long break between albums?
2.  Did the BB have another album planned immediately after "Keepin' The Summer Alive?"

3.  If there was another album, what direction might it have taken?
4.   How many BB outtakes are from this era?  Or, are they all solo things?

5.  Did Dennis grant any interviews where he discussed his feelings about the BB not releasing any quality material, Carl leaving, & always fighting?
6.  Did Dennis' tragic death make the band want to record again?

7.  What was the breaking point for Carl?
8.  When Carl left, how did the other BB react in the press?

9.  What made Carl return to the band?
10.  Carl's feelings towards the band & their music during this era......

11.  Thoughts from Brian, Mike, Al, or Bruce concerning this BB era

1 - The performance of KTSA and the state of the band had much to do with this. I think CBS leaned on them more than a little, to be honest.

2 - Unless you count the Brothers, Cousins & Friends notion that never got past pre-planning in 1982, no.

3 - You guess is as good as mine, but one thing was for sure - Brian wouldn't have been involved much, if at all.

4 - shows & sessions 1980
     shows & sessions 1981
     shows & sessions 1982
     shows & sessions 1983
     shows & sessions 1984  

5 - Not that I know of... which of course means someone will show up in 10 minutes with a handful.  

6 - I think it helped motivate them, but it wasn't the exclusive spur.

7 - The crappy live shows, no new material, not rehearsing: to paraphrase, "1981 has to mean as much as 1961"

8 - Y'know... I don't recall reading anythign about that. 'Course, Brian & Dennis were too busy exploring inner space...

9 - A solo career that never took off... promises to rehearse and not do casinos again... backing band members reinstated.

10.  I think his response to seeing the July 4th 1981 show on TV while on tour says it all: "It was painful" - that's all he said.

11.  Gimme a few days, I'll ask 'em.

[c-man]

This period has always intrigued me, having lived through it and the related excitement and eventual letdown every time a whisper of recording activity emerged (usually in the pages of the excellent but now defunct fanzine "Add Some Music"). 

March 1980 ASM:  "Brian is already in the studio cutting new instrumental tracks".
September 1980 ASM:  "Brian...has done work in the studio.  He did some writing during a month's stay in Hawaii by himeslef.  A couple of months back Brian cut seven tracks at the Santa Barbara studio, including 'Be My Baby', 'River Deep, Mountain High', and five originals".  Most of the originals turned out to be Mike Love compositions, but one ("I'm A Man"...not the Spencer Davis oldie, but an actual Brian original) was described a year later by Bruce (to Brad Elliott) as "great".  ASM goes on:  "Terry Melcher's name has come up as a possible producer of new Beach Boy product.  Bruce Johnston's involvement as producer of Keepin' The Summer Alive included re-recording 'Oh Darlin'', which had a vocal by Brian originally, and re-arranging 'Going On', a Brian Wilson arrangement of which is in the can".
December 1980 ASM:  "Brian Wilson has been doing a lot of work in the studio by himself which indicates perhaps that the next Beach Boys album will shift back from Bruce's control to Brian's.  Bruce had been contracted to produce two albums - L.A. and Keepin' The Summer Alive.  New Brian Wilson song titles include 'Dancin'', 'I'm A Man', and 'Stevie'".  And, from the following paragraph:  "The next Beach Boy effort will be released near the middle of 1981".  That same month, the group, without Brian, played a mini-concert on the beach in Hawaii for the Mike Douglas Show.  Carl told Douglas that Brian and Mike had recently written 18 new songs!  The AFM contracts from that year's post-KTSA sessions reveal that "Fly" was likely a Brian song (due to the presence of several of the old Wrecking Crew alumni), while we know for sure that "Boys and Girls" (originally taped for KTSA and re-recorded in November) is definitely a Brian song...the same is probably true for "Candlesticks" and "Up Again" as they were cut at the same session in November.  The contract for the May recording of "Song Within A Song" does not hold any clues as to the producer/composer, but it was cut at United Western Studio 3 with Chuck Britz engineerng, as were the above mentioned outtakes.


More to come...

[donald]

I don't think I have heard those unreleased cuts just mentioned.  Were they fully completed studio pieces?

Might they be on a boot?  (we are allowed to discuss boots per se but not deal in them etc?)  If so, which one?


I will say this about that period.  Carl went solo...and later returned to play some improved live shows.  Dennis passed.
Brian was unable to contribute very much at the time.  These things added to the already downhill trajectory of the late seventies culminating in KTSA.   These days of the early to mid 80's were the years of Carl Wilson.  The best songs on either KTSA or 85 and also two solo albums.  Not only was this a dry spell for studio releases for the BB but the live shows without Carl were not good.

[Emdeeh]

9.  What made Carl return to the band?

Something interesting about Carl stepping away from the band temporarily -- the reports about his departure always made it sound like he always intended to return to the BBs, citing his issues about rehearsing more, not playing so many resort venues, etc. as conditions for his return.

[donald]

I saw them before he left, while he was gone (with Brian croaking out Don't Worry Baby and Surfer Girl while Mike smirked and grimaced,or so it seemed) and after his return.  When he came back it was the best performance I had seen that I could recall.  Then came the 85 album.

[Jason]

Those 1981-82 shows without Carl are DIRE to say the very least. Even the touring band in 1998-2001 wasn't a pimple on the ass of the 1981-82 band without Carl. And as far as bad shows are concerned, it's not just the Long Beach show from 7/5/81, but the Washington, DC show from 7/4/81 too. Even the St. Petersburg, FL show from March of '82 was terrible. They were going down. FAST. Of course when Carl made his return in April things began to look up. And by May, forget it. He got them back to 100% and made Brian and Dennis take time off to work on themselves. Any number of the summer 1982 gigs began with It's OK, of all things, and the shows just got better from there.

[Rocker]

That same month, the group, without Brian, played a mini-concert on the beach in Hawaii for the Mike Douglas Show.  Carl told Douglas that Brian and Mike had recently written 18 new songs! 

Very cool little concert. Unfortunately Dennis wouldn't be there when they played the same beach in '86 for their anniversayry:


Part1

Part2

Part3

[adamghost]

The band did do some recording for a post-KTSA album...COUSINS FRIENDS AND BROTHERS was the title I was told too.  I heard some tracks at Alan Boyd's on one occasion, so they did exist.  I think "Be My Baby" came from these sessions.  There were six songs in all as I recall.  I remember one was Mike's "Bucks" which was actually the best of the lot, surprisingly good and very un-Beach Boys like (kind of an early '80s hard rock kind of thing).  "Boys and Girls" may have been in there.

I was told that Brian, Mike and Al were on the tracks.  Don't know about Bruce.  Definitely no Dennis and Carl.  My recollection is that a number of them were demo-like (drum machine, tack piano, rudimentary keyboards).

That's what I had to offer, but the album definitely got past the talking stage, because I personally have heard stuff from that time frame.  And Brian was definitely in on it.

[c-man]

I don't think I have heard those unreleased cuts just mentioned.  Were they fully completed studio pieces?

Might they be on a boot?  (we are allowed to discuss boots per se but not deal in them etc?)  If so, which one?

Don't know for sure, but it's likely that titles such as "Fly", "Candlesticks", and "Up Again" are backing tracks only, with no vocals.  But since they are not booted, I can't say for sure. 

[oldsurferdude]

The band did do some recording for a post-KTSA album...COUSINS FRIENDS AND BROTHERS was the title I was told too.  I heard some tracks at Alan Boyd's on one occasion, so they did exist.  I think "Be My Baby" came from these sessions.  There were six songs in all as I recall.  I remember one was Mike's "Bucks" which was actually the best of the lot, surprisingly good and very un-Beach Boys like (kind of an early '80s hard rock kind of thing).  "Boys and Girls" may have been in there.

I was told that Brian, Mike and Al were on the tracks.  Don't know about Bruce.  Definitely no Dennis and Carl.  My recollection is that a number of them were demo-like (drum machine, tack piano, rudimentary keyboards).

That's what I had to offer, but the album definitely got past the talking stage, because I personally have heard stuff from that time frame.  And Brian was definitely in on it.

No big deal but I think the working title was Brothers,Cousins and Friends.

[Smilin Ed H]

Wasn't KTSA originally going to be called Brothers, Cousins and Friends?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Wasn't KTSA originally going to be called Brothers, Cousins and Friends?

I do believe so - seems like that was the generic working title for any band project 1979-1984.

[drbeachboy]

It's been a long time, but I thought that it was the working title for M.I.U., as well.

[Cam Mott]

That should finally be the title of their 50th Anniv new album with new music and new re-worked tracks with Carl and Dennis they should release next year.

[Andrew G. Doe]

It's been a long time, but I thought that it was the working title for M.I.U., as well.

Know it was originally California Feeling, then Winds Of Change, but not Brothers, etc.... But, who can say "not" ?

[jeremylr]

I asked  a friend of mine who saw the BB numerous times his thoughts concerning this period, & here's what he had to say.  This came from an email:



"I saw the Beach Boys a couple of times when Carl went on break, and, honestly, I didn't think the shows were THAT bad. Actually, I thought Brian sang well, certainly better than the "croaky" 15 Big Ones and Love You period. He was beginning to try to "sing" again, meaning actually holding notes and using some phrasing. This new style would soon surface again when he "returned" in 1983 and on the 1985 album.

When Carl returned (and he really wasn't gone that long actually, if you think about it), the shows were very tight, but Carl's returning gave Brian a chance to leave - again. When Dennis died, they got even tighter and more professional. I think Brian's regression back into drugs/food and Dennis's demise finally scared the guys - in a lot of ways. They almost had to change, finally grow up, become more professional, live a clean lifestyle, whatever.

I don't think they recorded right after KTSA because I don't think anybody had any decent material left. They already raided a lot of Dennis's better stuff on L.A., Carl used a lot of his stuff on his solo albums, and Brian wasn't prolific at that time. They could've gone back to a Mike & Al project like MIU, but, I don't think a record company would've bought it.

If they would've recorded right after KTSA, I think it would've resemble L.A. (Light Album); I think they would've tried another "adult" BB album; that was the only semi-critically acclaimed album the guys had recently other than Love You. However, two "fun" songs, "Come Go With Me" and "The Beach Boys Medley" were big radio hits so who knows. I could've seen them do a Beach Boys 1985 type album a few years earlier, say 1982-83 (without the Steve Levine production BTW).

I think Carl returned - with his tail between his legs. Seriously. His solo albums did not sell well; they were basically ignored. What else could he do? Open up for other acts? Carl Wilson? I also wondered how much he (Carl) actually liked his own solo material. Did HE feel it was worthy of his talent(s).

I feel the same way about Brian's solo stuff BTW. Carl stepped out and got a big dose of reality, a dose of the music "business". But, really, did Carl have enough to say - musically - as a solo artist?

I don't remember reading many things from the band about Carl's leaving. Obviously there was no internet and the Beach Boy's were fading as a popular/important group. I just assumed that most people thought he'd be back in a relatively short time, unless he had a hit, and that wasn't happening. Carl - like Dennis - knew where the money was, which was being in the Beach Boys. And, ultimately, money drove everything. Everything!

Despite Brian re-gaining weight, I thought during that period 1980-81 that Brian was talking and singing more "normal". I had no idea if he was on drugs yet or not. But, he wasn't slurring and he wasn't raspy.

If you really listen to that infamous 7/5/81 concert which was televised, Brian actually tries to SING. Yeah, it's rough and slightly flat, but it's a different kind of singing than he was doing the last couple of years. Actually, he sang a lot like that later in his solo career, just better(and auto-tuned). Oh, yeah, he also PLAYED the piano.

You know, there isn't much positive from that early 80's period. Dennis died and Brian received IMO irreversible brain damage with Landy. But, if there is one small positive that came out of it, I think it finally scared the band shitless and gave them another dose of reality - they better clean up their act, personally and professionally.

I think Mike and Al knew this, Carl probably came to realize it after going through some problems of his own. Bringing Bruce back, while not supercharging the band musically, did give them another "clean" guy. Actually, after Carl came back in 1982, the shows were markedly better sounding, and continued that way."

[adamghost]

One thing about the Long Beach concert, people point to Brian as being one of the big reasons that concert blew, but he only totally ate it on one song:  "Don't Worry Baby."  He actually had just finished doing a quite decent version of "God Only Knows" before he launched into that one.  Adrian Baker's singing was far worse than Brian's on that show IMHO.  One of the other, big reasons that concert was terrible:  the sound going to TV was absolutely atrocious (Al's mic was up louder than the rest of the band's; Ernie Knapp's bass sounded like it was going through a bad DI and just went twink twink).  Dennis' drumming was erratic so with that and the non-existent bass, the foundation of the band's sound was a jumble.  In fact, I've always been tempted to lay the blame for that debacle at Mike's feet, since I believe the whole thing was his idea, and there was just not enough thought given to the logistics of actually pulling something like that off to live TV, particularly given the state of the band at the time.  I can think of many reasons why this would have been the case but the bottom line was, the mix that day was godawful.  Even if the band had performed great, it would have sounded like merda, and bad mixes have a way of sabotaging the band's performance too (since a lot of times the monitors suck too).

Now, Brian LOOKED terrible at that show -- the vacant look in his eyes was truly disturbing (though it makes his plaintive "heys" at the end of "God Only Knows" that much more poignant) -- and I think that contributes to the overall impression of the show (bad).  But his singing was just one of the factors in why that show stunk up the room.

I saw the band in September 1981.  I was very young, but even at that stage I was aware enough of the history and personalities of the band to keep an eye out for drama, and it was there.  A couple of things I remember:  the band completely broke down in a segueway in the Car Medley (Dennis' fault I believe), and there was an actual 30 seconds of confusion before the band was able to start the next song.  Brian by that point only did one lead, on "Sloop John B," which he very deliberately mangled (first two lines vicious Mike Love imitation, last two lines Yosemite Sam imitation).  I seem to recall Mike got his revenge later.  It was quite simply the worst concert I ever saw by a major band.

I saw them again in '86...this time Carl was there but no Brian (nor Dennis, obviously). Tight, professional, even slick.  Good choice of material, hits-focused but some recent stuff too.  Completely different thing.

I think the post above is probably pretty accurate.  And no, I don't remember the stuff I heard from the proposed '81-82 album being very good.  Definitely not LIGHT ALBUM worthy.  More like Mike Love's solo album than anything.

[Myk Luhv]

. . . Brian by that point only did one lead, on "Sloop John B," which he very deliberately mangled (first two lines vicious Mike Love imitation, last two lines Yosemite Sam imitation).  I seem to recall Mike got his revenge later.  It was quite simply the worst concert I ever saw by a major band. . . .

I... really want to hear this. As much as I'm sure I'd hate it if I were actually involved with him or The Beach Boys in any serious way, Brian committing such sabotage when he does something he doesn't want to do is really funny.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Yosemite Sam?!

Wow...

[Ian]

I do have an interview with Mike about his feelings about Carl's departure-but I have to look for it. I'll post something later on this.

[Rocker]

I do have an interview with Mike about his feelings about Carl's departure-but I have to look for it. I'll post something later on this.

Well, that should be interesting. I guess Carl did leave because of the way especially Mike was looking at the whole band-stuff

[Ian]

A few quotes by Mike:  1) Sept 4 1981 while down in Florida to play a solo show-Mike said in the Miami News: "I disagree with what Carl says about the band. I think that people that come to see the Beach Boys want to hear our old stuff.  I think your doing them and yourself a big disservice if you kid yourself into thinking they don't want to hear those songs."
On Carl's absence-Mike quoted in Syracuse Herald Journal on Aug 28 1981: "We have all the musical parts covered. Musically an individual Beach Boy is not missed. When you're singing background, you're not really missed."  As far as Carl's complaints about playing Vegas and Tahoe: Mike said in the same interview that "he doesn't mind playing to crowds at places like Las Vegas...A lot of the Beach Boys original fans are in their 30s and 40s and don't want to put up with the bump and grind of, say, a festival seating show in Madison Square Garden. 'There are millions of people in that category now'"
In many interviews at the time-Mike shied away from saying that Carl had really quit-usually he stated that Carl was just taking a break to do a solo tour and they wished him the best with it.  However, when Mike said this in Spring 81-he also said Carl would be back in Fall 81 and he wasn't.  By March 82 Mike was a little more critical-telling the St Pete Times: "You don't have to fold up an institution to do your own thing. He could have done both."  It may have gotten more heated-but actually Carl was back for some Canadian shows at the end of March and back for good by May.

[Rocker]

Thank you Ian !

A few quotes by Mike:  1) Sept 4 1981 while down in Florida to play a solo show-Mike said in the Miami News: "I disagree with what Carl says about the band. I think that people that come to see the Beach Boys want to hear our old stuff.  I think your doing them and yourself a big disservice if you kid yourself into thinking they don't want to hear those songs."

Did Carl say that they shouldn't be playing the old stuff? As far as I understand he wanted just some new material (maybe excluding stuff like "Little old lady..." which wasn't a Beach Boys song to begin with) and better rehearsing, etc. But I don't think that he wanted all of the oldies gone.

[adamghost]

. . . Brian by that point only did one lead, on "Sloop John B," which he very deliberately mangled (first two lines vicious Mike Love imitation, last two lines Yosemite Sam imitation).  I seem to recall Mike got his revenge later.  It was quite simply the worst concert I ever saw by a major band. . . .

I... really want to hear this. As much as I'm sure I'd hate it if I were actually involved with him or The Beach Boys in any serious way, Brian committing such sabotage when he does something he doesn't want to do is really funny.

I did actually tape the show on a cheap Radio Shack recorder I smuggled in.  I have it somewhere.  One of these days I'll transfer it over to digital, but the quality is not that great.