Dennis Wilson..."Me and Charlie, we founded the family".

[smile-holland]

Folks, if you want to talk about the use or nonsense of wars, please head towards the Sandbox section. Although hardly a peaceful topic, this IS (or originally was) about DW and Manson...

[Mike's Beard]

OK will stick to subject. Did anyone here know Squeaky Fromme once marched up to Dennis Wilson's house and demand he turn over all the recordings the Beach Boys had of Manson or she was going to kill him?

[grillo]

Did he do it? I would've, especially if squeaky were the messenger (for all sorts of f-ed up reasons!).

[Mike's Beard]

He lied and said he's destroyed all the tapes. Wilson's have a funny habit of doing that don't they?    The proverable Beach Boys/Mansonophille wet dream is where it's been been for the last 40 years - locked up deep in Capital's vaults, denied by most that even such a thing exists.

As for Squeaky, I'm reading her book at the moment and lets just say that her father could have gave Murry Wilson some tips on how to be a bad parent. The man was a monster.

[bgas]

He lied and said he's destroyed all the tapes. Wilson's have a funny habit of doing that don't they?    The provable Beach Boys/Mansonophille wet dream is where it's been been for the last 40 years - locked up deep in Capital's vaults, denied by most that even such a thing exists.

As for Squeaky, I'm reading her book at the moment and lets just say that her father could have gave Murry Wilson some tips on how to be a bad parent. The man was a monster.

I haven't read the book, but her father is what she says he is, just because? Are there any other eyewitness accounts?
Murry gets a bad rap as a parent, probably largely justified. But he sure did push his boys to greatness.

[Mike's Beard]

Actually I don't think she had any active participation in the book. Sources are from people who knew her. The guy who wrote the book interviewed many of Squeaky's schoolfriends and parents of schoolfriends who mentioned that she would turn up to school black and blue from beatings.

From an early age her father would forbid Squeaky to eat with the rest of the family in the dining room and make her eat her meals alone in the kitchen. He also completely ignored her from the age of 13 to 16. He would not speak to her or answer her. He insisted any form of communication be passed on between her mother. He often forbid her to enter the home and it was only through the kindness of friends she rarely had to sleep on the streets. He would knock her about and although not stated as such, the book strongly implies he was molesting her sexually. By 16 she had slit her wrists once and tried to OD so clearly the poor girl was exceptionally troubled.

Murry pushed his kids to success, Squeaky was pushed into the arms of Manson.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The proverable Beach Boys/Mansonophille wet dream is where it's been been for the last 40 years - locked up deep in Capital's vaults, denied by most that even such a thing exists.

Vaults, yes. Capitol, no.

[Mike's Beard]

I wonder just what they sound like. We know Dennis gave "Cease to Exist" the full production works but I'm willing to guess Carl and Brian gave Manson's own recordings more of a "Smiley Smile" feel to them. Has the names for any of the titles ever slipped out? It's probably for the best no one asks me what I'd be willing to do to hear these recordings!!

[bgas]

I wonder just what they sound like. We know Dennis gave "Cease to Exist" the full production works but I'm willing to guess Carl and Brian gave Manson's own recordings more of a "Smiley Smile" feel to them. Has the names for any of the titles ever slipped out? It's probably for the best no one asks me what I'd be willing to do to hear these recordings!!

What would you be willing to do?

[Mike's Beard]

I said don't ask!! 

[The Heartical Don]

Thought experiment: if these tapes would contain hours and hours of pure musical genius, how would you feel whilst hearing them?

I wouldn't feel right, although there have been other examples: Italian composer Gesualdo was quite insane, but highly gifted. When he found out that his wife was cheating on him, he hired a killer who drove a sword to the woman and her lover in one go.

But I like to listen to his works, it's so long ago.

About Spector: I listen to Back To Mono with just the same pleasure as always. Although, of course, he's in jail for murder.

But something tells me that the thought experiment above would not leave me careless at all. Even if the music's great, I would have terrifying images of mutilated bodies in my head.

And you?

[bgas]

Thought experiment: if these tapes would contain hours and hours of pure musical genius, how would you feel whilst hearing them?

I wouldn't feel right, although there have been other examples: Italian composer Gesualdo was quite insane, but highly gifted. When he found out that his wife was cheating on him, he hired a killer who drove a sword to the woman and her lover in one go.

But I like to listen to his works, it's so long ago.

About Spector: I listen to Back To Mono with just the same pleasure as always. Although, of course, he's in jail for murder.

But something tells me that the thought experiment above would not leave me careless at all. Even if the music's great, I would have terrifying images of mutilated bodies in my head.

And you?

There's a Manson Lp available somewhere, "Lie";  I wonder if any of those songs were re-recorded  with Brian producing?

[Mike's Beard]

I have Lie and and I think it's very good for a lo/fi recording. Charlie had talent, there's no doubt. He just also happened to be a sick muther. Ex Family member and fellow musician Paul Watkins has said that right up until the arrests, he, Charlie and others were in recording situations with some very happening people. People who have of course have hushed up any involvement they had with Manson whatsoever. I seem able to separate the man from the music. I find it harder to watch any movie with Sharon Tate in to be honest.

Here's a song from "The Family Jams" record. Corny yet beautiful. The whole album has wonderful female harmonies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4bSgeYaAaw

[guitarfool2002]

Neil Young for one seemed to be very impressed with Charlie's ability to create a song with lyrics on the spot, and continue playing the song and improvising/singing lyrics as long as he wanted. Other musicians agreed with Neil and thought he had some kind of unique talent, while others saw him as a charlatan and a hack, with some talent as a writer.

The other backstories are how many music-biz folks passed on working with Charlie directly, yet out of some kind of favor or obligation referred someone else for the job. And a few of those notable "someone elses" got seriously f***ed up as a result, which is sad.

[Mike's Beard]

Neil Young does seem to be the only one to admit having dealings with Manson prior to the slaughters. Who knows what Charlie could have sounded like with a decent production job? Phil Kaufman is credited with producing "LIE" but he basically just pressed the record button.

[Dave in KC]

The best interview I ever saw with Manson was done by the excellent Tom Snyder. He knew how to draw the man out, almost to the limit. The main focus at that time was on the heinous acts and interview time goes by quickly. If someone could get to him now, somebody really good, perhaps the focus could be widened to the music angle and what really happened in more detail than the recent TV productions. This may never happen though because I vaguely remember reading that the prison has banned him from any further interviews.

[Mike's Beard]

My favourite Manson interview is the one with Diane Sawyer. She has a look of absolute disgust and incomprehension on her face throughout it. Charlie's his usual charming self - quote "Look woman, I'm a convict, a rebel, an outlaw. I ain't no Sunday school teacher!"

The most insightful Manson related interview I've seen is the one Susan Atkins did in 1976.

If you want to see something to really make your skin crawl check out this Sandy Good interview, esp her expression around the 2:50 - 2:55 mark. Despite her obvious flaws, I always considered Sandra a hottie, but her face here is the stuff nightmares are made of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCn4cn8ncL4&feature=related

[bgas]

My favourite Manson interview is the one with Diane Sawyer. She has a look of absolute disgust and incomprehension on her face throughout it. Charlie's his usual charming self - quote "Look woman, I'm a convict, a rebel, an outlaw. I ain't no Sunday school teacher!"

The most insightful Manson related interview I've seen is the one Susan Atkins did in 1976.

If you want to see something to really make your skin crawl check out this Sandy Good interview, esp her expression around the 2:50 - 2:55 mark. Despite her obvious flaws, I always considered Sandra a hottie, but her face here is the stuff nightmares are made of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCn4cn8ncL4&feature=related

I'm always amazed just how many truly looney people there are in this world!

[Mike's Beard]

Not only that but that the courts considered Sandy sane enough to be out walking the streets! Look again at that trademark vacant stare in her eyes, clearly she took one trip too many and never fully came back.

[bgas]

Not only that but that the courts considered Sandy sane enough to be out walking the streets! Look again at that trademark vacant stare in her eyes, clearly she took one trip too many and never fully came back.

I think that stare just says she's still on the Charlie trip

[Mike's Beard]

A bit of both perhaps? It's sad because ATWA does/did carry a positive message about looking after mother earth and not polluting it. Sandy and Squeaky were also preaching this many years before it became trendy to do so. However, any good intentions is FAR outweighed by the demented bitch's bizarre belief that the Tate/LaBianaca murders were committed as a measure of raising awareness of environmental issues and therefore justified. Killing a pregnant woman and her friends? Protecting the planet and it resources? No, I fail to see the link between the two. Sandy comes across as an idiot whenever she tries to persuade people of this. Sandy has not been heard from in many a year so hopefully she's finally got this crap out of her head.

Back to the Beach Boys- Although now commonly known, at the time of the murders was it public knowledge that they had covered a Manson tune on their last record? Never Learn not to Love was credited solely to Dennis on 20/20. It must have helped that the BB's were not very popular at the time and were selling few records so few people would notice or care. Imagine if at this time they'd been as big as The Doors or CS&N, the media would have had a field day! They should consider it a blessing in disguise that they were yesterday men in 1969 because if they had their likeness beamed on TV next to Manson and the girls everytime they were on the news I don't think their image could ever have recovered from it.

How did the other guys treat Dennis for bringing this filth onto their doorstep? I bet Mike gave him grief about it for years.

[Rocker]

Back to the Beach Boys- Although now commonly known, at the time of the murders was it public knowledge that they had covered a Manson tune on their last record? Never Learn not to Love was credited solely to Dennis on 20/20. It must have helped that the BB's were not very popular at the time and were selling few records so few people would notice or care. Imagine if at this time they'd been as big as The Doors or CS&N, the media would have had a field day! They should consider it a blessing in disguise that they were yesterday men in 1969 because if they had their likeness beamed on TV next to Manson and the girls everytime they were on the news I don't think their image could ever have recovered from it.

I believe Dennis did mention Manson in a few interviews (one at least) around that time

[Andrew G. Doe]

Back to the Beach Boys- Although now commonly known, at the time of the murders was it public knowledge that they had covered a Manson tune on their last record? Never Learn not to Love was credited solely to Dennis on 20/20. It must have helped that the BB's were not very popular at the time and were selling few records so few people would notice or care. Imagine if at this time they'd been as big as The Doors or CS&N, the media would have had a field day! They should consider it a blessing in disguise that they were yesterday men in 1969 because if they had their likeness beamed on TV next to Manson and the girls everytime they were on the news I don't think their image could ever have recovered from it.

I believe Dennis did mention Manson in a few interviews (one at least) around that time

Earliest mention was in the famous Rave interview from 1968 (although it may have been published in early 1969) during the course of which Dennis mentioned Charlie as a friend of his, and someone who might be signed to Brother.

[Mike's Beard]

I wonder if Manson had been signed to Brother would the horrors that followed have been avoided or not?

[Mike's Beard]

Freaky!! So I turn on the news this morning and the regional show reports that four cosmetics testing companies have been hit with vandalism and violence threatening letters not that far down the road from me! Sandy Good, coming to a town near you.....................