How Much Did Brian...

[MBE]

I think Brian's use of drugs became abuse roughly in 1971 or so. I remember Carl saying once that it was during the So Tough sessions that he really realised something was wrong as far as drugs go. Dennis once remembered that 20/20 was the first time he was really worried about Brian mentally. Obviously as early as 1963 when he begain to gain weight and stay home there was something a little wrong.
Btw someone mentioned the Surf's Up sessions. Brian was there semi regularly according to Steve Desper. He even spells out what Brian did in his book with fairly good detail in his book.

[Mike's Beard]

I read Brian only took acid a couple of times because it "scared him". The coke abuse was much more rampant. One thing I've always had trouble with is the claim that Brian used to stay in bed doing piles of cocaine in the '70s. The last thing you want to do after a few lines of coke is lie in bed, quite the opposite.

[MBE]

I've been thinking a little more about this.
Brian has had people do horrible things to him but he also did some horrid things to himself. I do genuinely feel sorry for anyone who suffers mental or physical illness. God knows I've seen both up close with the people I care about. One thing I don't excuse though is the drugs. I simply have trouble thinking that Brian would have ever gotten as bad as he was without them. I don't think he ever would have put himself at such peril as far as the people around him (IE Landy) if he hadn't stopped taking care of his health. Had he never drunk or drugged to any great extent I don't know if his life would have been so hard.

I do understand that people were more naive in the sixties. I also understand that most musicians come across dope one way or another. Still I do feel that drugs (of all sorts) hurt the guy and made it that much harder for him. I feel for him but I also feel for all his friends and relatives who had to go through the bad times with him. As far as Marilyn goes she gets a free pardon from me. She was very young and not living in a time where many knew about something mental illness. Brian has some fantastic qualites as a person but he did himself no favors.

I'm not knocking him really but I want to be balanced as far as how I see him. My best friend became a druggie and basically dropped out of life. Rehab hasn't helped much and besides he never had enough people to care about him or the money to get the help Brian eventually got. My friend hears voices and has many smilier problems. I do feel for him but when he began to try to milk me for cash it really strained our friendship. Maybe it's because of him that I hate drugs so much myself. I just know that while he may have had some hard times, he would have pulled through them had he never taken drugs. I feel the same for Brian.

This isn't a pleasant topic, nor one to take lightly. Not everyone will smoke a joint and have a breakdown or drop acid and change forever for the worse but my friend did and so did Brian. It's sad and yes I think Landy hurt Brian far more then he ever did himself, but once again I can't help but thinking that Brian just wasn't the type of guy cut out for drugs. I'm again not passing judgement but I do have to make an honest observation here.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I believe PAC is referring specifically to LSD when he said "a small handful of times."

And in multiple interviews with folks from the time, that seems to be true. Maybe as little as once.

On the other hand, there was a lot of pot around, and he used uppers all the time.

I can shoot you down with that "only once" acid thing right now.

1. "Are you feeling the acid yet?"

2. Tripping in Hawaii

3. California Girls

4. On the beach figures out how Good Vibrations should go

5. Fire meltdown trip

Those are five separate LSD trips that I count and there are probably countless others if one reads inbetween the lines. If Brian's giving the guys acid at the STUDIO, how much is he using in the privacy of his home and with friends? It's worth considering. Sure you could say he gave them acid to capture a true spiritual feeling in Our Prayer. You could also say he was just so into acid like many people that he was using it frequently and getting the band on it too.

Can we have citations with 4 & 5, please, as your memory has been shown to be in error regarding the Lennon/Macca episode ? I'll spot you the first three, those are documented.

Schwartz, laughed about it, like it was no big deal. You know he must know Brian's condition now - has he not taken any responsibility for what the drugs supposedly did to Brian?

Why should he? Brian was the one that took them.

Schwartz's rationale was along the lines of "hell, he'd have taken it anyway, just so happened I was the first to give it to him".  Which of course is both entirely true and at the same time no defence at all.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I read Brian only took acid a couple of times because it "scared him". The coke abuse was much more rampant. One thing I've always had trouble with is the claim that Brian used to stay in bed doing piles of cocaine in the '70s. The last thing you want to do after a few lines of coke is lie in bed, quite the opposite.

Actually, wasn't it recently revealed that Brian really didn't stay in bed nearly as much as was previously claimed, that it was more along the lines of him pacing around the house non-stop?

[Curtis Leon]

I've been thinking a little more about this.
Brian has had people do horrible things to him but he also did some horrid things to himself. I do genuinely feel sorry for anyone who suffers mental or physical illness. God knows I've seen both up close with the people I care about. One thing I don't excuse though is the drugs. I simply have trouble thinking that Brian would have ever gotten as bad as he was without them. I don't think he ever would have put himself at such peril as far as the people around him (IE Landy) if he hadn't stopped taking care of his health. Had he never drunk or drugged to any great extent I don't know if his life would have been so hard.

I do understand that people were more naive in the sixties. I also understand that most musicians come across dope one way or another. Still I do feel that drugs (of all sorts) hurt the guy and made it that much harder for him. I feel for him but I also feel for all his friends and relatives who had to go through the bad times with him. As far as Marilyn goes she gets a free pardon from me. She was very young and not living in a time where many knew about something mental illness. Brian has some fantastic qualites as a person but he did himself no favors.

I'm not knocking him really but I want to be balanced as far as how I see him. My best friend became a druggie and basically dropped out of life. Rehab hasn't helped much and besides he never had enough people to care about him or the money to get the help Brian eventually got. My friend hears voices and has many smilier problems. I do feel for him but when he began to try to milk me for cash it really strained our friendship. Maybe it's because of him that I hate drugs so much myself. I just know that while he may have had some hard times, he would have pulled through them had he never taken drugs. I feel the same for Brian.

This isn't a pleasant topic, nor one to take lightly. Not everyone will smoke a joint and have a breakdown or drop acid and change forever for the worse but my friend did and so did Brian. It's sad and yes I think Landy hurt Brian far more then he ever did himself, but once again I can't help but thinking that Brian just wasn't the type of guy cut out for drugs. I'm again not passing judgement but I do have to make an honest observation here.

I'm really only going to say this once... Any sort of serious illness is hell. Both in the mind and body. In a way, a mental illness is even worse - at least there's a chance of a cure. I'm speaking from someone who's suffered from schizophrenia and, to some extend, avoidant personality disorder, for years now. It's complete hell. A lot of jobs don't take you, you have to spend a large amount of money on doctor visits, medicine, etc. For Brian, I can imagine it being so much worse. No treatment, becoming addicted to cocaine and nicotine. Losing your appearance, your voice, even some of your mind after a point. And your wife, too.

I personally don't hate drugs. I see them as what they are, tools. Tools of experimentation, of addiction, of casual fun. It really depends on who you are, as a person, to see how you would react to it. Just know this. Drugs simply push you into a direction. A direction you may, or may not have already been heading in.

[buddhahat]

Wait, so Brian really hears Murry, Phil, and Danny in his head?

Someone should make this into a cartoon

LOL, and add it as a bonus to the inevitable BWRG DVD.

I feel for Brian or anyone else who has experienced severe mental illness. LSD and speed had a negative effect on me and for months I felt like I was on the brink. I was having lucid dreams and all sorts. Scared the hell out of me although funnily enough there were some up sides as this was the time I rediscovered the Beach Boys via Pet Sounds and a fascination with Brian's psyhcological problems - "Hang On To Your Ego? What the foda's that about?"

Anyway it turned out the only lasting effects were an anxiety disorder that LSD may or may not have contributed to so I was lucky. Anyway It's well documented that Brian's problems were already there, and the drugs may have teased the more severe symptoms out but I agree wholeheartedly that blaming a guy that gave Brian his first trip is misdirected. He does laugh on the doc, and why not?  The anecdote sounds funny to me. My friends recounted my own bad trip shenanigans back to me, and I had to admit, there was a funny side.

[Curtis Leon]

Wait, so Brian really hears Murry, Phil, and Danny in his head?

Someone should make this into a cartoon

LOL, and add it as a bonus to the inevitable BWRG DVD.

I feel for Brian or anyone else who has experienced severe mental illness. LSD and speed had a negative effect on me and for months I felt like I was on the brink. I was having lucid dreams and all sorts. Scared the hell out of me although funnily enough there were some up sides as this was the time I rediscovered the Beach Boys via Pet Sounds and a fascination with Brian's psyhcological problems - "Hang On To Your Ego? What the foda's that about?"

Anyway it turned out the only lasting effects were an anxiety disorder that LSD may or may not have contributed to so I was lucky. Anyway It's well documented that Brian's problems were already there, and the drugs may have teased the more severe symptoms out but I agree wholeheartedly that blaming a guy that gave Brian his first trip is misdirected. He does laugh on the doc, and why not?  The anecdote sounds funny to me. My friends recounted my own bad trip shenanigans back to me, and I had to admit, there was a funny side.

That'd be horrible! Hearing, say, Murry telling you to be decent around the house when he's not even there!

[Cam Mott]

Schwartz's rationale was along the lines of "hell, he'd have taken it anyway, just so happened I was the first to give it to him".  Which of course is both entirely true and at the same time no defence at all.

I agree.

There was a reason why Brian was at Loren's when he first took LSD. Loren was concerned for Brian. Loren didn't think Brian's personality was suited to drugs and had been deflecting Brian's requests to try stuff but he felt some in Brian's entourage were eager to supply drugs to Brian without much concern for Brian's ability to handle it. I think Loren thought he was reluctantly being responsible. By the time of SMiLE, Loren said he was out of Brian's scene because he felt it had become too "juvenile".

He also said Brian's LSD hit was no more than was usual at the time, something which was much less than I had been led to believe. 125 mics or something, does that sound right? Come on brain.

Anybody else hear different on these issues?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Dunno why I didn't think of this before, but for anyone who says that acid doesn't rewire (or dewire) your brain, I have just two words:

Syd Barrett.

[Mikie]

Btw someone mentioned the Surf's Up sessions. Brian was there semi regularly according to Steve Desper. He even spells out what Brian did in his book with fairly good detail in his book.

That was me. And Desper was the source of my information. Brian would come down from his room intermittently, but for the most part of the sessions, stayed up in his room.

[Ganz Allein]

I believe PAC is referring specifically to LSD when he said "a small handful of times."

And in multiple interviews with folks from the time, that seems to be true. Maybe as little as once.

On the other hand, there was a lot of pot around, and he used uppers all the time.

I can shoot you down with that "only once" acid thing right now.

1. "Are you feeling the acid yet?"

2. Tripping in Hawaii

3. California Girls

4. On the beach figures out how Good Vibrations should go

5. Fire meltdown trip

Those are five separate LSD trips that I count and there are probably countless others if one reads inbetween the lines. If Brian's giving the guys acid at the STUDIO, how much is he using in the privacy of his home and with friends? It's worth considering. Sure you could say he gave them acid to capture a true spiritual feeling in Our Prayer. You could also say he was just so into acid like many people that he was using it frequently and getting the band on it too.

Can we have citations with 4 & 5, please, as your memory has been shown to be in error regarding the Lennon/Macca episode ? I'll spot you the first three, those are documented.

Schwartz, laughed about it, like it was no big deal. You know he must know Brian's condition now - has he not taken any responsibility for what the drugs supposedly did to Brian?

Why should he? Brian was the one that took them.

Schwartz's rationale was along the lines of "hell, he'd have taken it anyway, just so happened I was the first to give it to him".  Which of course is both entirely true and at the same time no defence at all.

What exactly are the stories behind #1 and #2? I see them mentioned a lot but never with details. Regarding #1, I find it hard to believe that Brian and some of the guys were actually tripping in the studio while recording/rehearsing My Prayer - unless maybe they were taking half or quarter tabs. Perhaps Brian was posing that question to some visitors who were tripping in the studio?

As for #2, what kind of tripping scene went on in Hawaii in '67, and who was involved? If they'd made plans to do this beforehand, it would square with Bruce's statement that he didn't go there with them because of drugs.

[Ganz Allein]

Dunno why I didn't think of this before, but for anyone who says that acid doesn't rewire (or dewire) your brain, I have just two words:

Syd Barrett.

Here's two more: Roky Erickson (although he was "helped" along by thorazine and shock treatments later).

[Andrew G. Doe]

I believe PAC is referring specifically to LSD when he said "a small handful of times."

And in multiple interviews with folks from the time, that seems to be true. Maybe as little as once.

On the other hand, there was a lot of pot around, and he used uppers all the time.

I can shoot you down with that "only once" acid thing right now.

1. "Are you feeling the acid yet?"

2. Tripping in Hawaii

3. California Girls

4. On the beach figures out how Good Vibrations should go

5. Fire meltdown trip

Those are five separate LSD trips that I count and there are probably countless others if one reads inbetween the lines. If Brian's giving the guys acid at the STUDIO, how much is he using in the privacy of his home and with friends? It's worth considering. Sure you could say he gave them acid to capture a true spiritual feeling in Our Prayer. You could also say he was just so into acid like many people that he was using it frequently and getting the band on it too.

Can we have citations with 4 & 5, please, as your memory has been shown to be in error regarding the Lennon/Macca episode ? I'll spot you the first three, those are documented.

Schwartz, laughed about it, like it was no big deal. You know he must know Brian's condition now - has he not taken any responsibility for what the drugs supposedly did to Brian?

Why should he? Brian was the one that took them.

Schwartz's rationale was along the lines of "hell, he'd have taken it anyway, just so happened I was the first to give it to him".  Which of course is both entirely true and at the same time no defence at all.

What exactly are the stories behind #1 and #2? I see them mentioned a lot but never with details. Regarding #1, I find it hard to believe that Brian and some of the guys were actually tripping in the studio while recording/rehearsing My Prayer - unless maybe they were taking half or quarter tabs. Perhaps Brian was posing that question to some visitors who were tripping in the studio?

As for #2, what kind of tripping scene went on in Hawaii in '67, and who was involved? If they'd made plans to do this beforehand, it would square with Bruce's statement that he didn't go there with them because of drugs.

1 - Brian says, very clearly, "can you feel the acid yet ?"  If there was anyone else in the studio, they were being very, very quiet.

2 - According to many disparate sources, there was serious substance abuse by everyone during the 1967 Hawaii trip (Bruce declined to go - the most he's ever said about it was "it was too wierd").

[runnersdialzero]

2 - According to many disparate sources, there was serious substance abuse by everyone during the 1967 Hawaii trip (Bruce declined to go - the most he's ever said about it was "it was too wierd").

And boy does it show on the recordings that have gotten out.

[Wirestone]

I have always taken the acid thing during the "Prayer" sessions as one of Brian's incredibly awkward jokes.

I somehow doubt they would all be tripping during recordings for something so complex.

[nobody is a chode]

This is interesting -

I tripped last night and the message I got was : I'm insane.

I'm more reclusive than Brian. How come I don't get no help? I had a mental breakdown at a job and then spent the next year tripping every day and ended up practically confined to my bedroom as well. Where's my record deal?

I have always taken the acid thing during the "Prayer" sessions as one of Brian's incredibly awkward jokes.

I somehow doubt they would all be tripping during recordings for something so complex.

Now that's just rewriting history. Awkward joke? Yeah right. An awkward joke would be : hey Mike, can I borrow your comb?

[Cam Mott]

Maybe it is just me but that "can you feel the acid yet" has always seems strange. To me it doesn't seem to be directed to anyone in the studio judging by the non-reaction. I wonder if it was directed to someone in view in the booth? It doesn't really say Brian is tripping either does it? I don't know, something just doesn't hang right with that comment and its context.

[nobody is a chode]

Maybe it is just me but that "can you feel the acid yet" has always seems strange. To me it doesn't seem to be directed to anyone in the studio judging by the non-reaction. I wonder if it was directed to someone in view in the booth? It doesn't really say Brian is tripping either does it? I don't know, something just doesn't hang right with that comment and its context.

Oh come on... he asks Dennis if he has any more joints! Any MORE joints!!! [before AGD human fact checker storms in... Brian says "do you have any hash joints left? i know u do"

To me it sounds like Brian wanted to get Our Prayer sounding really good, and not just sounding good but FEELING good, and he thought the best way would be to have everyone in the same headspace high and a bit spaced out. Is that really too hard to imagine? It was a vocal session, it's not like Brian is there tripping directing the Wrecking Crew musicians or something. It may have been a couple of hours in an afternoon before hitting the beach or something for all we know.

Plus one listen and my verdict is... all of these guys are at least high.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTgN_PqHk8

After a closer listen, when Brian asks "feel any acid yet?" i hear what sounds like Carl say "i feel great"

As a side note - anyone else find it strange hearing Mike curse "f***" during this session? I feel about Our Prayer that it's sacred music, "white spiritual sound", and it's strange hearing the mundane human side of it as well like that.

[Mike's Beard]

Dunno why I didn't think of this before, but for anyone who says that acid doesn't rewire (or dewire) your brain, I have just two words:

Syd Barrett.

Good point Andrew. In fact such a good point I was going to mention him this morning on the board but dammit I had to get ready for work!!!

Contray to popular myth Syd Barret wasn't taking acid morning, noon and night as most would believe. He took it now and then like most people from that scene by several accounts of people that were close to him around that time.  Isn't that the truly scary thing? That there is just as much chance of you developing psychiatric issues as the result of one trip as you are on a dozen? It is playing Russian Roulette with your mind.

[nobody is a chode]

Dunno why I didn't think of this before, but for anyone who says that acid doesn't rewire (or dewire) your brain, I have just two words:

Syd Barrett.

Good point Andrew. In fact such a good point I was going to mention him this morning on the board but dammit I had to get ready for work!!!

Contray to popular myth Syd Barret wasn't taking acid morning, noon and night as most would believe. He took it now and then like most people from that scene by several accounts of people that were close to him around that time.  Isn't that the truly scary thing? That there is just as much chance of you developing psychiatric issues as the result of one trip as you are on a dozen? It is playing Russian Roulette with your mind.

Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions. Even members of Pink Floyd deny that acid was the cause of Syd's problems. Some point to other drugs he used more often - mandrax pills among other things. However it sounds like Syd got HPPD from acid. I saw one of his paintings and it reminded me of HPPD.

[nobody is a chode]

Anyone else think that John Lennon might be a good example of a sort of extroverted acid case? He didn't withdraw from public life like Brian & Syd but from what I've read (Goldman  ) he was plenty nuts himself behind closed doors. He just seemed to put on a strong public image of a strong resilient man.

I relate to John in a way. I've read that he was anorexic - and seen a naked photo of him proving it. I'm the same weight - 125lbs 5'11" - and when I read about that it was like reading about myself.

Goldman also related a fun story about how Yoko would pull pranks on John like put cat poop in his path from his room to the kitchen or wherever, so he'd step in it. Oh Yoko, how I love you.

[Alex]

I can't imagine anyone in Brian's band enjoying a smoke before a show.

Not even Darian and Nick?

[Mikie]

Oh come on... he asks Dennis if he has any more joints! Any MORE joints!!! [before AGD human fact checker storms in...

It's a good thing AGD is here to put bullsh*t posts to rest.

[Mike's Beard]

Dunno why I didn't think of this before, but for anyone who says that acid doesn't rewire (or dewire) your brain, I have just two words:

Syd Barrett.

Good point Andrew. In fact such a good point I was going to mention him this morning on the board but dammit I had to get ready for work!!!

Contray to popular myth Syd Barret wasn't taking acid morning, noon and night as most would believe. He took it now and then like most people from that scene by several accounts of people that were close to him around that time.  Isn't that the truly scary thing? That there is just as much chance of you developing psychiatric issues as the result of one trip as you are on a dozen? It is playing Russian Roulette with your mind.

Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions. Even members of Pink Floyd deny that acid was the cause of Syd's problems. Some point to other drugs he used more often - mandrax pills among other things. However it sounds like Syd got HPPD from acid. I saw one of his paintings and it reminded me of HPPD.

One BIG difference is that a pre drugs Syd was by all accounts a friendly, easygoing, confident outgoing kind of guy who came from a very loving home. Compare that with Brian who had an abusive father who gave his son a very negative view of himself deep down.