Heroes And Villains - Cantina Mix release confusion

[Paul2010]

Hello everyone,
I followed the Smiley Smile message board as a guest for some time, and now I decided to join in and register.

And immediately I have a question. The HAV Cantina mix was released on the 1990 SS/WH twofer and on the GV Boxset.
Today I bought the 2001 HDCD SS/WH twofer, also including the Cantina HAV, and that tracks sounds noticeably different. Firstly, the distortions (most noticeable in the a capella part) that were present in the earlier releases, is gone with the 2001 release.
Secondly, the new release seems to have some strange background noise going on, not hiss, but as if it was heavily equalized around the midrange frequencies. The old releases sound more balanced and clear to my ears.
Thirdly, the track runs longer for a split second.
can someone explain to me, how the new release can sound SO much different? Was it equalized, or mastered from a different tape?
Thanks
Paul

[Bicyclerider]

The 1990 version was noise reduced, and had a gentle and most agree ear pleasing EQ despite the noise reduction.  The original tape (a safety copy of the master which is missing) was damaged and not in very good shape.

The GV box set version was not noise reduced and had a decent EQ job, though different from the 1990 version.  So there's more hiss and high frequency distortion noises, but overall this sounds pretty good.  I prefer the 1990 mastering myself, but I wouldn't argue with those who prefer this one.

The 2001 had a more severe EQ job emphasizing the high and midrange frequencies, and is least pleasing to my ears of the three.

So all come from the same tape, all different EQ and mastering.

[hypehat]

This is as good a place as any to get clarification on something i read here before i went back to my board-blocking university - that was months ago, i can't remember the thread!


Someone mentioned that the 'False Barnyard' bit at the end of the cantina mix was a modern addition to the supposedly only surviving Brian mix of the song. Or did i imagine that?

[buddhahat]

This was mentioned in a thread recently but was a misunderstanding. The false barnyard fade is definitely part of the authentic 67 brian mix.

[Paul2010]

Thank you Bicyclerider for the explanation about the EQ/mastering thing, your answer has been very helpful.

[runnersdialzero]

What's the best master/souce on this? I haven't got everything listed in here, but every copy I've heard has a sort of static over it that drives me partially crazy.

[Bicyclerider]

The least static is on the 1990 2 fer, because of the noise reduction.  The same track was used on the SOT Smile (copied directly from the 2fer)!

[hypehat]

This was mentioned in a thread recently but was a misunderstanding. The false barnyard fade is definitely part of the authentic 67 brian mix.

Thank you, buddha. Although i did like the idea of it ending on the tape explosion...

[Paul2010]

The least static is on the 1990 2 fer, because of the noise reduction.  The same track was used on the SOT Smile (copied directly from the 2fer)!

Now I'm getting confused again. On my copy of the 1990 twofer, the distortions are present as well. But, on the SOT Smile (Vol. 16) disc, the distortions are completely gone! They don't sound the same at all. How do your copies of these discs sound?

I listened to my rip of the 1990 twofer again, and the HAV Cantina mix sounds exactly the same as the GV Boxset to my ears, maybe I've got some different pressing?
EDIT: there is a difference actually: the fade on the twofer is slightly longer than the GV, which fades out earlier. So it is not an exact copy.

[petsite]

SOT noise reduced and eq's H&V for the single SMILE CD. The best sounding to me is still the 1990 2-fer CD. The noise reduction is clearly needed. I acutally sold all of my 2fer's in 1997 (when they were going for a premuim). I OVER extended the number of copies I listed and sold them all (for like $30 each.) Luckily, I was able to find a British import copy and of course in 1998, Capitol/EMI of Canada put all of the disks back in print (bless u guys!).

I like the no-noise version. It is the one I use for any comp. The SOT sounds good as well. Also, to clear up the date on the tape box. That version was mixed on my 8th birthday, January 27th 1967. The protection master was made in Feb. And acutally, it sounds like the version we have is a copy of the Feb. protection master. Alan or Mark, if you read this, can you tell us with the acutal damage is to the reel? Is it just poorly recorded or is it indeed damaged?

Bob

[Paul2010]

Thanks for the SOT explanation, petsite.
This still doesn't explain the strange thing about my 1990 twofer, which sounds exactly the same as the GV Boxset version except for the longer fadeout. Can someone tell me in what way they here a clear difference between the two?

[Alan Boyd]

There is some tape damage at the head of the reel with the protection copy of that "Heroes and Villains" mix tape.  It's crinkled and wrinkled, as if it had come off of the reel and gotten munched or stepped on or something.... but the damage isn't that extreme.

By the way, I'm not positive that's actually a copy of the missing mix from 1/31/67, for which we have only the tape box, and a reel with a count-in followed by a splice, and then....nothing.  The 2/10 version well have been an entirely different mix/edit.  The tape box says Heros and villains as of 2/10/67 master, protection copy.  Based on some shards of mix outtakes on another reel from 1/27/67, I'm wondering if the mix from January might have featured Brian and Mike trading off the lead vocal on the verses.

It's very frustrating... we have empty tape boxes from that era with some very tantalizing notes on them.  Bits and pieces from those reels appear be on some of the Sea of Tunes CDs.