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Author Topic: Weezers Pinkerton  (Read 49163 times)
Jason
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« Reply #75 on: February 20, 2006, 03:39:11 PM »

are you asking me to post more?
That's actually pretty funny

that can mean two things:
1 you like my last post and think I should write more on this subject and others
2 you like it a bit, but you don't want to take it serious since it is only my 17th post on this forum.

#1.
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Beckner
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« Reply #76 on: February 20, 2006, 03:43:38 PM »

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But Rivers has started to let it out that at times he absolutely hated what he was recording during that time.

Rivers hates the Blue Album, or so he says. And he hated Pinkerton and refused to play the songs live. You gotta realize, Rivers is a master of deciept. He controls his image more than any rock star and he revels in fucking with fan perception. I mean, c'mon, ever read that "Guitar World" cover story when he referred to the fans as "bitches"? Every interview he has done since "Pinkerton" has been a complete put on. The media rejected him then and ever since, it's been a game to him. How about the "bouncing ball" SPIN article? Or the recent Rolling Stone cover? I don't believe anything he says in interviews ever.
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #77 on: February 20, 2006, 03:49:30 PM »

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You gotta realize, Rivers is a master of deciept.

I liked him the first time, when his name was Bob Dylan. *yawn* Sloppy seconds.
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Boxer Monkey
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« Reply #78 on: February 20, 2006, 03:53:37 PM »

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You gotta realize, Rivers is a master of deciept.

I liked him the first time, when his name was Bob Dylan. *yawn* Sloppy seconds.

Bob Dylan? Liked him better before, when his name was Woody Guthrie ...

Woody Guthrie? Liked him better before, when his name was Skip James ...

Skip James? Liked him better before, when his name was Charley Patton ...

 Wink
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #79 on: February 20, 2006, 04:03:43 PM »

Guthrie didn't pull that "I'm difficult" sh*t, dude.
COMPLETELY different thing I'm talkin' about.
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Beckner
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« Reply #80 on: February 20, 2006, 04:07:12 PM »

I'm not disagreeing, Ian, AT ALL. In fact, I've made that comparison before, just forgot to make it in the thread.
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Boxer Monkey
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« Reply #81 on: February 20, 2006, 04:07:44 PM »

Guthrie didn't pull that "I'm difficult" merda, dude.
COMPLETELY different thing I'm talkin' about.


Yeah, I know. I'm just being "difficult," dude.  Smiley
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #82 on: February 20, 2006, 04:08:04 PM »

 Grin
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Joshilyn Hoisington
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« Reply #83 on: February 20, 2006, 04:23:03 PM »

If he's a master of deceit, he's deceiving himself as well.  I think he's one of those people who changes their mind a lot.  I think he's honestly believed what he's said in interviews at the time.  If you read interviews with him at the time of all 5 of the albums releases, he loves the record.  He liked Blue when it came out called it "very satisfying", the Schoolhouse Rock guitar world interview after Pinkerton came out was a great read, and in it Rivers said things that indicated he felt he was indulging in some things that he liked and didn't care if it alienated some fans...and felt that he was going in a new direction.  Obviously when it flopped he found that he did care.  Now, at the release of Make Believe he's had nice things to say about Make Believe, and is starting to admit that Maladroit was not a fun record to make.  As for the "Little Bitches" stuff, I have no doubt he meant that and probably still feels the same way despite his inner peace.  And he's right, we are little bitches.  That wasn't control, it was just being provocative.  That's not to say he's not a control freak with a close eye on image, I'm just saying he's not "lying" in interviews to purposefully make himself seem a certain way.  He's just saying what he thinks in a very crafted way.


I tend to think he's at his most honest with himself now, now that he's looking inward and such with Vipassana.  But he's definitely a guy with "interesting" hindsight perspective.
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Beckner
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« Reply #84 on: February 20, 2006, 04:31:41 PM »

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I tend to think he's at his most honest with himself now, now that he's looking inward and such with Vipassana.  But he's definitely a guy with "interesting" hindsight perspective.

I honestly think that's a ruse too.
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2006, 04:34:40 PM »

Exactly! Dylan did that too, in his rustic "family" countryman phase. The when people weren't buying his records any more, he went "angry" again.
And Rivers will do that too.
It's all a series of masks.
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« Reply #86 on: February 20, 2006, 04:36:09 PM »

In what sense?  He is really in to Vipassana.  Or devoting a lot of time to the ruse.  I know several people who have run into him at Vipassana retreats, and I also have a friend whose friend who is not a Weezer fan and had a brief discussion with Rivers at a Vipassana retreat (I guess they don't get to talk much at those things) and was very impressed by his commitment.

So ruse or not, Rivers is devoting a lot of time to it. 
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Joshilyn Hoisington
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« Reply #87 on: February 20, 2006, 04:37:05 PM »

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It's all a series of masks.

I don't doubt it, but I think Rivers believes the masks are actually plastic surgery.
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #88 on: February 20, 2006, 04:39:27 PM »

In what sense?  He is really in to Vipassana.  Or devoting a lot of time to the ruse.  I know several people who have run into him at Vipassana retreats, and I also have a friend whose friend who is not a Weezer fan and had a brief discussion with Rivers at a Vipassana retreat (I guess they don't get to talk much at those things) and was very impressed by his commitment.

So ruse or not, Rivers is devoting a lot of time to it. 

I'm not denying his passion to it at this point, but remember Dylan's born-again phase? He was pretty damn serious about that, too. But things pass.
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« Reply #89 on: February 20, 2006, 04:41:33 PM »

Agreed.  Nobody thinks Dylan was a manipulative control-freak during that time now, do they?  Or do they?  I honestly don't know.
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« Reply #90 on: February 20, 2006, 04:45:47 PM »

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Nobody thinks Dylan was a manipulative control-freak during that time now, do they?

He is, was, always shall be. But that didn't make his faith deniable. And it does not with Rivers either.
I just think he knows how to play the breaks, just like Dylan, Madonna, Bowie etc.
How much you're entertained by those antics depends on how much you identify with the performer.
Personally, I don't find him in the league with those I mentioned, but I felt the same way about Cobain.
Therefore, in the minority. So, dig on.
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« Reply #91 on: February 20, 2006, 04:50:18 PM »

Rivers hates the Blue Album, or so he says.

thats a damn shame, he'll never be able to top that...then again thats probably the reason why he hates it.

you guys are right, and I stand corrected, its Matt's presence that gives Weezer that extra oomph, not his writing. although he did co-write a couple of songs on the blue album.

I also find it neat that Im in the same boat with a lot of you in the whole 'weezer era/experience'...I was about 12 or so years old when I picked up the Blue Album (right after I watched the 'Undone' video) and from then on =w= played a huge part in my life (emotionally/musically).

rad.
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We would like to record under an atmosphere of calmness. - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2006, 05:05:02 PM »

Yeah, I don't think you can truly have a love/ hate relationship with Weezer unless you were around for "the wait."
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #93 on: February 20, 2006, 05:08:09 PM »

A question for ya'll.
Why do Weezer fans gravitate towards BW, when Rivers and BW are pretty much complete polar opposites in so many ways?
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Beckner
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« Reply #94 on: February 20, 2006, 05:15:06 PM »

For me, Ian, two mutually exclusive events. I knew of weezer slightly from even before my Beatles days, and then after I embraced them as one of a few poppy bands that were around. (I wasn't too hip to much else in 1995.)

The Beach Boys fandom didn't come around until 2000.
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Jonas
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« Reply #95 on: February 20, 2006, 05:17:30 PM »

The correlation between Weezer and Brian Wilson, to me, isnon-existen t. Ive always 'liked' the BB because my dad was into them and I'd listen to them when he'd drive me around. Then during my pre-teen cool rocker guy phase I really got into Weezer and was really into that sound. Went on through the whole computer geek phase at 16 when I got into more experimental stuff (idm/edm) til about 21 or so. Thats when I got back into rock and more natural instruments, and somehow in the last few years I just fell into the trap that is The Beach Boys.

I dunno, if they are somehow related it was a long way to get there. Ones thing for sure, pre-green album =w= and the beach boys wrote some fantastic music.
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Joshilyn Hoisington
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« Reply #96 on: February 20, 2006, 05:29:26 PM »

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Why do Weezer fans gravitate towards BW, when Rivers and BW are pretty much complete polar opposites in so many ways?

Well, some Weezer fans think they like the Beach Boys because they're told by ignorant Weezer fans that the Blue album is Beach Boysesque.

As for me, with both groups I loved the music before getting into the creators of it.  (Incedentally, I've found that when going the other way, I universally end up not liking the music.  If I read about a band before I hear the music, I've NEVER liked the music that much.  At least to the emotional extreme that I like the BB and Weezer.)

Brian and Rivers are just interesting personalities.  I doubt I'd give a tschitt about them if I hadn't fallen head over heals for their music.
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« Reply #97 on: February 20, 2006, 05:30:04 PM »

A question for ya'll.
Why do Weezer fans gravitate towards BW, when Rivers and BW are pretty much complete polar opposites in so many ways?


There is something youthful, beautiful, and haunting in the music that both of these men have created. I think they both have a relationship with music, in particular melodies, that would be comparable to relationships a person has with a significant other. They can talk to music and the music will listen and talk back.
It's an unconditional love almost; like a non-verbal understanding and an admiration for music. They treat music the way it deserves to be treated.
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« Reply #98 on: February 20, 2006, 05:44:42 PM »

Maladroit's a great album.  Really tight songsmanship.  

I think the problem with Rivers Cuomo is that he's decided, like many of the big mid-90's alt-rock names, that he really likes being a rock star and will continue to write music that he thinks will be popular until he dies.  This overriding commercial interest will synergize with artistic interests only on an incidental basis.  Fortunately, he's an excellent craftsman so many won't notice.

I think his other big problem is that he somehow got the impression he should be idolizing Green Day and Oasis when they are at the most his peers and at the least his artistic inferiors.

A Weezer Box would be awesome, if only for the unleaked Pinkerton (non SFTBH) tracks.  Outside of a mention in Rivers' Edge, I don't think anyone's heard hide nor hair of them.
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Chris D.
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« Reply #99 on: February 20, 2006, 05:51:44 PM »

Maladroit's a great album.  Really tight songsmanship.

It's a fun album.

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I think the problem with Rivers Cuomo is that he's decided, like many of the big mid-90's alt-rock names, that he really likes being a rock star and will continue to write music that he thinks will be popular until he dies.

Wasn't he doing that from the beginning?  I think if he has any musical flaw related to his time, it's not exploring his playing ability enough.  We probably have Kurt Cobain to thank for that.

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This overriding commercial interest will synergize with artistic interests only on an incidental basis.  Fortunately, he's an excellent craftsman so many won't notice.

This is where he's really tricking people.  He's a lot smarter than even his best fans will give him credit for.  If you look at some of his most popular stuff, like "Hash Pipe," it's not that far removed from his least popular -- artistically.  But people just notice the surface and can't put both sides of his writing together.

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I think his other big problem is that he somehow got the impression he should be idolizing Green Day and Oasis when they are at the most his peers and at the least his artistic inferiors.

I never really got that, either.  He went from copying some of his most imaginative peers (Flaming Lips, Nirvana, Blur) to copying some of his least imaginative.
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