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Non Smiley Smile Stuff => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 06:10:57 PM



Title: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 06:10:57 PM
Does Weezers album Pinkerton remind anyone else of Pet Sounds meets the Flaming Lips? To me the songs are bursting with the Beach Boy energy, but with the flaming lips combined with pet sounds era production. Also, didn't Rivers Cuomo freak out after this album was released because no one "got it" at first? Kinda like Brian.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 08:45:11 PM
Lotta Pinkerton fans here. You should get a good response on this one.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: mike8902 on February 17, 2006, 09:08:10 PM
good to know.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 17, 2006, 10:32:58 PM
  "Pinkerton" is inextricably linked with "Pet Sounds" in my mind. For a long time every crushing defeat in the Beckner War for Love had been met with a salvo of "Pet Sounds" backed with "Pinkerton" with a side round of "Sweetheart of the Rodeo." About five years ago, I once stayed in bed for two days listening to both albums back to back over and over again, heartsick and broken. Unhappy with the answers the records gave me, a few months later I found myself looking to God for salvation again.

Still both albums remain dear to me. I am able to listen to "Pet Sounds" more freely these days but "Pinkerton" is still about that one girl who got away...



Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Mitchell on February 17, 2006, 11:02:14 PM
For me, Pinkerton is more akin to Smiley Smile. I think it's a great record, I love the production and energy in the songs and performance (ok, Smiley Smile kind of lacks this, but the Smiley reference is for other reasons), and that's what makes it such a captivating album. I also love that Rivers' lyrics are so specific that they essentially lose all meaning for me in terms of "connecting" with the album. Where Pet Sounds' lyrics are fairly generic and indeed easily relatable, having never had a crush on a red-headed half-Japanese girl who plays the cello (or even a lesbian), Pinkerton remains a great document of Rivers' own struggles and not my own personal problems.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 17, 2006, 11:05:48 PM
Actually Mitch, "Pink Triangle" happened to me.

"Falling For You" and "Getchoo" are other girls too.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 11:08:06 PM
Pink Triangle has happened to me too, but it's worse when you actually sleep with the girl.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Mitchell on February 17, 2006, 11:09:03 PM
Actually Mitch, "Pink Triangle" happened to me.

"Falling For You" and "Getchoo" are other girls too.

Well, I am sorry to hear that, but I guess that's the thing... sometimes it will connect specifically and just make it that much more meaningful/painful.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 17, 2006, 11:09:38 PM
No it's worse when you aren't sure if the girl is really gay or if you are the reason she won't date you.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 17, 2006, 11:10:31 PM
No it's worse when you aren't sure if the girl is really gay or if you are the reason she won't date you.

Yikes.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 17, 2006, 11:22:57 PM
Yes that's just one.

Then there's Sharon, the girl who I took to a Weezer show in March 2001. I thought we had a thing, a connection to each other through the music. My heart raced with the hope of possibilities after that awesome night. I worked with her at Rite Aid. I go into work the next day to learn she was dating my coworker Steve and no one told me before the show at all. I wanted to puke. That's the reason that "Pinkerton" is so dear, it's too real to me. At times, the reality of the words becomes my reality and the lines are blurred between my life and the songs.

And btw, Ian, "The Capitol Song" is about that experience except it started out in reverse "can anybody tell me is there a greater blow than a girl who says she doesn't like you but loves your rock and roll?" but it works soo much better as it stands.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: jdavolt on February 17, 2006, 11:47:07 PM
I've stated on here before that I hear a really similar vibe coming from these two albums ('Pinkerton' & 'Pet Sounds'). I definately hear a connection, and even have a CD-r I made with the two of 'em back-to-back. I wasn't surprised to learn from Mitchell, et al.'s board that Rivers was listening to PS (and SMiLE) a lot during the time in which he was writing those songs.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 18, 2006, 12:10:03 AM
Absolutely. Both albums come from the same place of a young man's uncertainties about love, his place in the world and the future. And  it's edifying to the (male) listener that it's okay to be uncertain and not tough, despite what society may impress upon you your entire life.

(I'm not trying to exclude the female populace or say that they don't feel these ways...)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: mike8902 on February 18, 2006, 12:11:54 AM
It reminds me so much of Transmissions from the Satellite Heart. The "big drum sounds" rivers was into must've been inspired by that. I love the way rivers worked with that sound and made it more catchy and accessible.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 18, 2006, 07:16:55 AM
Actually Mitch, "Pink Triangle" happened to me.

I could've sworn "In the Garage" happened to you, as well.

 :-*

Mike, you're right -- Rivers loved the Flaming Lips.  They used Dave Friedman was one of the engineers on Pinkerton, which is partly how they got the same drum sound.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 18, 2006, 07:19:25 AM
*Fridmann.

Contemporatneous interviews have Rivers saying they were specifically going for the Flaming Lips drum sound.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 18, 2006, 07:47:11 AM
Rivers also said, in his most recent interview, that the only time he wrote songs while at Harvard was when his frozen dinners were in the microwave. So tracks 5-10...



Pinkerton is my second favorite album, behind Pet Sounds.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 18, 2006, 07:58:39 AM
Maybe he was eating those really big microwave dinners that require 12 minutes in the microwave?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 18, 2006, 08:02:26 AM
Had to be...had to be.



Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 18, 2006, 08:42:07 AM
Quote
I could've sworn "In the Garage" happened to you, as well.

Yes, but for me, it was Spidey and Led Zeppelin, not the X-Men and KISS.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jason on February 18, 2006, 08:53:22 AM
Pinkerton's a wonderful little album. I don't think Weezer will ever top it. Where's the deluxe edition?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 18, 2006, 08:57:01 AM
Probably won't happen.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jason on February 18, 2006, 09:00:14 AM
Maybe not now, maybe in a few years.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 18, 2006, 09:00:41 AM
Maybe he was eating those really big microwave dinners that require 12 minutes in the microwave?

I can never get those timed out right. The box will say 3-4 minutes but I'll end up re-heating seven times before I can eat comfortably.

I have Pinkerton on a CD-R and i've only given it a few listens.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 18, 2006, 09:01:30 AM
It would have to start selling a lot more copies. It's the least selling of the =w= albums, even behind Maladroit and Make Believe.


But it's the album that deserves the DE treatment. It'd be awesome.

H&V, you should try playing it again sometime. FFY will teach you a lot about theory.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 18, 2006, 09:15:26 AM
If Weezer breaks up, I expect there will be a lavish box set.

I stopped giving the directions on microwave dinners much thought years ago.  You have to know your microwave, and then you can pretty much judge exactly how long you need based on the size of the "entree."


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 18, 2006, 09:18:51 AM
Isn't there a concert DVD in the works?

I'd expect a DE Pinkerton this year sometime on time for the tenth anniversary.

You know what's an awesome little Weezer song? "I do"-- and Rivers opened with it, on a shitty little keyboard, when I saw them in 2001.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 18, 2006, 09:33:43 AM
Yes, there is a DVD on the way. I think we'll find out soon when it'll be out.

And if DE Pinkerton happens, it will most likely be this year.


I love I Do. The whole thing about Rivers saying Green is emotionless doesn't count with this song.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 18, 2006, 09:40:26 AM
And he even manages to steal a song title from the Beach Boys and a melodic idea from Billy Joel!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 18, 2006, 09:43:28 AM
Everyone steals something from Billy Joel, like him or not.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 18, 2006, 09:46:27 AM
Sort of like how everybody gets to experience Billy Joel getting into a car accident with them?

I really loved Billy Joel's performance as "Dodger" in Disney's 80s movie "Oliver and Company."  Still do, actually.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 18, 2006, 09:57:28 AM
Sort of like how everybody gets to experience Billy Joel getting into a car accident with them?


no


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: mike8902 on February 18, 2006, 11:45:56 AM
Oh wow I didn't even realize fridmann was an engineer. That's pretty sweet. Heard he's producing the new Thursday album. Should be interesting.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Mitchell on February 18, 2006, 12:26:24 PM
hmm, I always figured he was going for Albini/In Utero. I'll have to listen to Transmissions again.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 18, 2006, 01:45:53 PM
Quote
Heard he's producing the new Thursday album. Should be interesting.

That record is in the bag, should be out pretty soon. 

To be honest, I don't like Dave's production much.  I feel like I like a lot of Flaming Lips songs, in particular, despite the production.  I mean, he gets pretty good sounds, but it's not cohesive.  A lot of his mixes sound like individual elements placed discretely in the stereo panorama, rather than a complete sound.

His stuff on Pinkerton is wonderful though, I think it's probably a recent thing, or maybe only with the lips.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: mike8902 on February 18, 2006, 01:46:02 PM
She don't use jelly especially.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jason on February 18, 2006, 01:47:20 PM
Everyone steals something from Billy Joel, like him or not.

Even the riffs from Atilla's album?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 18, 2006, 01:47:44 PM
GUILTY!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: mike8902 on February 18, 2006, 01:51:50 PM
I like his production he's always trying to give the Lips a different sound with each album. I don't like some of his stuff with Mercury Rev he could've got a way better drum sound for the song "In a Funny Way"I still love the song though, the guitar line reminds me of "Had to Phone ya" for some reason. 


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 18, 2006, 01:55:03 PM
His best production yet, to my ears, is Sleater-Kinney's scorching The Woods.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 18, 2006, 02:22:08 PM
I've been meaning to check that one out.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 18, 2006, 02:46:51 PM
hmm, I always figured he was going for Albini/In Utero. I'll have to listen to Transmissions again.

Albini was the other guy he cited.

Quote
I have Pinkerton on a CD-R and i've only given it a few listens.

Don't be a tool ;D


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 18, 2006, 02:49:59 PM
I think the "Surfer Rosa" connection was thrown in there too, in terms of sounds Rivers was looking for.  Interesting little stew.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Mitchell on February 18, 2006, 02:56:11 PM
I love the drum sound during the Superfriend portion of the weezer DVD. Hey Josh, do you know who did the IJTOTLOMD session? You mentioned that you loved the kick during that song. Any other songs share that sound?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 18, 2006, 03:15:24 PM
I think the "Surfer Rosa" connection was thrown in there too, in terms of sounds Rivers was looking for.  Interesting little stew.

Yep.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 18, 2006, 04:55:11 PM
I think the "Surfer Rosa" connection was thrown in there too, in terms of sounds Rivers was looking for.  Interesting little stew.

Which is what Kurt wanted for In Utero. It all goes round and round...


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: mike thornton on February 18, 2006, 05:44:28 PM
weezer-yawn. anyone heard the boot for that one yet?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 18, 2006, 05:46:00 PM
Quote
I love the drum sound during the Superfriend portion of the weezer DVD. Hey Josh, do you know who did the IJTOTLOMD session? You mentioned that you loved the kick during that song. Any other songs share that sound?

I asked our friend Karl about some of that, he really couldn't remember much.  He couldn't remember where IJTO ended up being done, nor who engineered the session.

IJTOTLOMD is a real oddity in terms of sonics, IMO.  It foreshadows the sound of Green in many ways, but manages to retain dynamics more like Pinkerton, but the ambience of the synth sound on IJTO is much difference than the sound of Tired of Sex.  Which is fine.

I think the sound of the drums during Superfriend as appears on the DVD is largely a testament to how good Sound City's room is.  Considering we're hearing the monitors mic-ed by a mono minicam or something...

I've discovered the secret to a good kick sound, and it's using two mics.  You have to put a ported resonant head on the drum, put a D112 in there for the attack, and an LDC a few feet back from the head for the body of the sound.

Now, if I only had something to record this nice sound on.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 18, 2006, 05:48:19 PM
Quote
weezer-yawn. anyone heard the boot for that one yet?


(http://www.lepconnie.com/willow/archives/starbarty8.jpg)

Hey Gwildor, time to go back to Trolla.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Mitchell on February 18, 2006, 09:43:13 PM
Cool, thanks, Josh! I didn't know you'd been in touch with Karl. Too bad they don't document every single thing they ever did, when, and where (and then keep the masters).


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on February 19, 2006, 07:35:12 PM
I'm starting to get hooked.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 19, 2006, 08:20:16 PM
Awesome Steve!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jonas on February 19, 2006, 10:05:53 PM
ahh Weezer...

Blue Album - The Pinnacle. Brilliance at its finest.
Pinkerton - Ahead of its time. The one that 'got away.'
-The end of Weezer after Matt Sharp's departure-
Green Album - Garbage.
Maladroit - Listenable, still not the sound.
Make Believe - a little better, but still not what I want.

the day river and matt start writing music together with the rest of the band is teh day Weezer becomes =w= again, sadly that day will never come.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 03:07:13 AM
Quote
the day river and matt start writing music together with the rest of the band is teh day Weezer becomes =w= again, sadly that day will never come.

But Matt didn't write much.  His presence was a positive, but his actual musical contributions are minimal, especially on the Blue Album.  Weezer has always been Rivers' band and the onus will always be on him.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 10:27:42 AM
Yep.

And Matt/Rivers did start writing together again, for a two or three month period starting 2/04. It wasn't super, but it was neat.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: DavidLeeRoth on February 20, 2006, 10:48:25 AM
Matt and Rivers wrote "Time Song" which I used to have a little clip of the two of them performing it together.  The part that Rivers sang took my breath away.  I think just being around Matt influenced Rivers writing.  Matt's Rentals songs (first album especiailly) are pretty good actually.  I never really got into his solo album.  What I heard was far from impressive. 

I still enjoy the hell out of Make Believe.  When will the Weezer hating end?

DLR


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 11:48:44 AM
Quote
I never really got into his solo album.  What I heard was far from impressive.

It stinks.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Mitchell on February 20, 2006, 11:49:51 AM
I still enjoy the hell out of Make Believe.  When will the Weezer hating end?

When Rivers releases the rest of the SFTBH demos.

Then it will start again.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 11:52:20 AM
Quote
When will the Weezer hating end?


When they get different fans, instead of a hateful load of snot-nosed and snide creeps.
(except for the Weezer fans here, of course)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 12:23:48 PM
Ian, can it be weezerfan hating instead of weezer hating?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 12:26:31 PM
Quote
When they get different fans, instead of a hateful load of snot-nosed and snide creeps.

It's a very strange fanbase.  I'm not aware of another fanbase that draws such extreme opposite cliques.  There's an extremely intellectual sect, and there's a, uh, extremely not intellectual sect.  And of course, all kinds of things in between.

But Ian, don't you think there might be something to the fact that so many Weezer fans have turned on the band?  I'm not too confident in the public at large, but so many people that were fans in 1994 are not fans now, and it's not just a matter of not being a fan anymore it's, as you say, hateful at times.  I try not to be hateful, but at times I do feel betrayed.  Selfishly, of course, but it's shocking how the same group could produce an album or so that move me to the fullest extent I can be moved...and years later leave me with such a profound, sad, empty feeling.  It'd be like a Coke addict snorting enough angel dust to paralyze a sperm whale and getting no buzz (or whatever one gets when one snorts Coke.) 


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 01:17:59 PM
It has to do with the time spent away, 1996- 2000. In those intervening years, I grew up. I graduated high school, et cetera, fell for girls, etc, all to the tune of Blue and Pinkerton. Meanwhile I was still waiting on Weezer to go with me. When they finally returned I wanted the Weezer of my youth. They lost a lot being away.

I think a lot of it is what the preconcieved notion of what weezer should sound like. And honestly, they are still defining that.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jason on February 20, 2006, 01:21:15 PM
When they get different fans, instead of a hateful load of snot-nosed and snide creeps.

A lot of fans, not just Weezer fans, could take that advice. Basically, if you're a band whose fanbase consists mostly of people from ages 14-22. Bands like Nine Inch Nails and Nirvana and Led Zeppelin.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 01:34:22 PM
Quote
I think a lot of it is what the preconcieved notion of what weezer should sound like. And honestly, they are still defining that.

I think Weezer themselves has a preconcieved notion of what they "should" sound like.  Which is why I believe I don't get anything from their last two albums.  Rivers was taking the band in a direction up through the hiatus.  We were starting to hear interesting compositional devices, clever key changes, some color instruments in with the classic Weezer guitar sound.  Glockenspiels, heavy synth stuff...which at times was used for comedic effect.  There were dynamics, C sections to songs.

Then all of a sudden, Rivers strips it back to the AABABA song form with two guitars, bass, and drums.  Which was fine for the Green album.  It worked from a commercial standpoint and was probably important.  The melodies on that album were good enough that it was solid musically.

Even though I don't like Maladroit at all, looking back now, I at least appreciate how it stands out from a certain standpoint.  It was terrible musically, almost amelodic at times...but whatever nice moments there were on the album (and there are some) were steamrolled by thoughtless prolificness.

Then this last record is even more simple in the bad sense.  Each song retains the same dynamic throughout (partly because of production but partly because of the songwriting), is just ABABA, and the arrangements seem so thoughtless to me.

Ultimately, of course, it is completely subjective.  But this is how I feel...  I know what my desires are don't match the record-buying populus' vast taste pool.  I like complexity in some form, and Weezer has been getting less and less complex.  There are no layers to parse, if you will.  There's nothing left to reveal itself to you after one listen.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 01:45:09 PM
See but I like Maladroit for the exact opposite reason. In the same way that I like bad comics and bad movies, I love the absurdity of "Maladroit." It's closer to "Pinkerton" than "Green" or "Make Believe" are, for sure. I love the dive bomb solos, the insane riffing, the overall tone. The only track I don't like is "Possibilities" since that one sounds like dialed in Cali pop punk.

I wrote a thing about Maladroit on my xanga a ways back. Ill look for it.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 01:48:49 PM
Quote
I love the dive bomb solos

If I wanted to hear people mindlessly playing fast pentatonic scales, I'd go to guitar center.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jason on February 20, 2006, 01:49:20 PM
If I wanted to hear people mindlessly playing fast pentatonic scales, I'd go to guitar center.

Or you could listen to a Van Halen record.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 01:52:38 PM
Quote
I love the dive bomb solos

If I wanted to hear people mindlessly playing fast pentatonic scales, I'd go to guitar center.

Haha, that's why I don't like going. If Rivers were in there 'shredding' it'd be a different story.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 01:55:19 PM
Yeah, if Rivers were actually Shredding at a guitar center, or on record, I'd want to hear it.  He was a really, really good guitarist in the 80s.  I'm sure it's still there somewhere.  Some of the Avant Garde and Zoom solos are really close to being top-level jazz fusion difficulty.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: mike8902 on February 20, 2006, 02:02:55 PM
After Pinkerton it seems to me that each album had a couple of songs that would blow me away, and the rest of the songs are filler. I'm really a sucker for Island in the Sun and Glorious Day on the Green Album. Burnt Jamb(I think the best post-pinkerton song) and Dope Nose on Maladroit. And I think Make Believe is unlistenable.

I'll always give them a chance though just because how brilliant the Blue album and Pinkerton are.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 02:28:11 PM

From my xanga:


Quote
Monday, November 10, 2003

   
   Currently Playing
Maladroit
By Weezer
see related

Yes i know Im listening to the "crappy" weezer album. Granted, it's full of two hand tapping, pick slides, and other ill guitar histrionics. It sounds like Edward Van Halen guests on half the tracks and like Mutt Lange produced. But it is brilliant. Put yourself in River's shoes. (I doubt any of us would fit but...) Your band has been away for five years, you release an album that sells insane copies to too many 12 year olds (green album), and that you yourself admits was an attempt to write songs that had little lyrical meaning but great melodies like early Beatles sides. To purge yourself of all these lame new fans who spend all their time nitpicking you online, you record an album for yourself, one that you like but know wont be loved by the fans. Its no Pinkerton. Its an ironic attempt to be "significantly more like Judas priest..."

None of us are 12 years old. Get to listening and comprehending. Album5 is on the way with Rick Rubin producing. Rivers says he's gonna rap. (and considering he guested on the crazytown album and co wrote Cold's "stupid girl" its likely) And as always we will all get pissed and disown Weezer for a month or two. get used to it.


Two years on and one more album later, I stand by this post.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on February 20, 2006, 03:00:01 PM
Wow
great topic

Pinkerton is simply the best Weezer record for me
it's in the production and in the cleverness of the songs
Take the solo's for instance, lot's of Pinkerton songs have solo's over a new chordpattern
instead of the chorus or verse. But it still sounds very cohesive

Now for what happened after Pinkerton

I liked Green and Maladroit when they came out
Make Believe
well the music is sometimes ok (This is Such A pity has a nice vibe, Perfect Situation is good)
but the lyrics are horrible

If only Rivers could see that his songs like Longtime Sunshine are his best
and that he's better of making 8 track demos than fronting a group who's playing Beverly Hills.
BTW, what's wrong with people? Green and Make Believe were massive hits, but are their weakest albums.

How can 'Beverly Hills' and 'We are all on drugs' be hits, I think 'Keep Fishin' or 'Dope Nose' were
better songs particulary from a commercial point. Songs that are poppy but also clever, with nice
videos. Better videos than those Make Believe. I don't want to judge music by it's video, but
I want to make it clear that the videos for Keep Fishin and Dope Nose weren't bad, but equally if not better.
(I mean a muppet video, with a funny story, how cool is that?) 

another point:
maladroit, I'm sure Rivers had a good thing going there, but the album that came out:
man, talk about songs that don't fit together. I like Keep fishin, Dope Nose, Burndt Jamb, December, Space Jam
(BB's metal anybody?), Death and Destruction, Slob, Fall Together. Take Control and Slave are decent. The rest, mediocre if you ask me. But that's still a nice score!
Besides there were lot's of great songs demo'ed in that era and the months after Maladroit's arrival. They picked the wrong songs for inclusion.



Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jason on February 20, 2006, 03:03:18 PM
Post more.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on February 20, 2006, 03:10:40 PM
are you asking me to post more?
That's actually pretty funny

that can mean two things:
1 you like my last post and think I should write more on this subject and others
2 you like it a bit, but you don't want to take it serious since it is only my 17th post on this forum.

Either/Or (great album I had to say it) it's very funny.

I have lot's of thoughts on Weezer/Cuomo but I never really wrote them down. My last post
wasn't very constructed. But that's my lazy internet style. An Essay on Cuomo, now that would be something.
Some of you think SFTBH is his SMiLE don't you? I've been to those sites million times, liked what you said.
 


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 03:38:23 PM
Quote
you record an album for yourself, one that you like but know wont be loved by the fans.

But Rivers has started to let it out that at times he absolutely hated what he was recording during that time.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jason on February 20, 2006, 03:39:11 PM
are you asking me to post more?
That's actually pretty funny

that can mean two things:
1 you like my last post and think I should write more on this subject and others
2 you like it a bit, but you don't want to take it serious since it is only my 17th post on this forum.

#1.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 03:43:38 PM
Quote
But Rivers has started to let it out that at times he absolutely hated what he was recording during that time.

Rivers hates the Blue Album, or so he says. And he hated Pinkerton and refused to play the songs live. You gotta realize, Rivers is a master of deciept. He controls his image more than any rock star and he revels in fucking with fan perception. I mean, c'mon, ever read that "Guitar World" cover story when he referred to the fans as "bitches"? Every interview he has done since "Pinkerton" has been a complete put on. The media rejected him then and ever since, it's been a game to him. How about the "bouncing ball" SPIN article? Or the recent Rolling Stone cover? I don't believe anything he says in interviews ever.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 03:49:30 PM
Quote
You gotta realize, Rivers is a master of deciept.

I liked him the first time, when his name was Bob Dylan. *yawn* Sloppy seconds.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 03:53:37 PM
Quote
You gotta realize, Rivers is a master of deciept.

I liked him the first time, when his name was Bob Dylan. *yawn* Sloppy seconds.

Bob Dylan? Liked him better before, when his name was Woody Guthrie ...

Woody Guthrie? Liked him better before, when his name was Skip James ...

Skip James? Liked him better before, when his name was Charley Patton ...

 ;)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 04:03:43 PM
Guthrie didn't pull that "I'm difficult" sh*t, dude.
COMPLETELY different thing I'm talkin' about.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 04:07:12 PM
I'm not disagreeing, Ian, AT ALL. In fact, I've made that comparison before, just forgot to make it in the thread.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 04:07:44 PM
Guthrie didn't pull that "I'm difficult" merda, dude.
COMPLETELY different thing I'm talkin' about.


Yeah, I know. I'm just being "difficult," dude.  :)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 04:08:04 PM
 ;D


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 04:23:03 PM
If he's a master of deceit, he's deceiving himself as well.  I think he's one of those people who changes their mind a lot.  I think he's honestly believed what he's said in interviews at the time.  If you read interviews with him at the time of all 5 of the albums releases, he loves the record.  He liked Blue when it came out called it "very satisfying", the Schoolhouse Rock guitar world interview after Pinkerton came out was a great read, and in it Rivers said things that indicated he felt he was indulging in some things that he liked and didn't care if it alienated some fans...and felt that he was going in a new direction.  Obviously when it flopped he found that he did care.  Now, at the release of Make Believe he's had nice things to say about Make Believe, and is starting to admit that Maladroit was not a fun record to make.  As for the "Little Bitches" stuff, I have no doubt he meant that and probably still feels the same way despite his inner peace.  And he's right, we are little bitches.  That wasn't control, it was just being provocative.  That's not to say he's not a control freak with a close eye on image, I'm just saying he's not "lying" in interviews to purposefully make himself seem a certain way.  He's just saying what he thinks in a very crafted way.


I tend to think he's at his most honest with himself now, now that he's looking inward and such with Vipassana.  But he's definitely a guy with "interesting" hindsight perspective.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 04:31:41 PM
Quote
I tend to think he's at his most honest with himself now, now that he's looking inward and such with Vipassana.  But he's definitely a guy with "interesting" hindsight perspective.

I honestly think that's a ruse too.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 04:34:40 PM
Exactly! Dylan did that too, in his rustic "family" countryman phase. The when people weren't buying his records any more, he went "angry" again.
And Rivers will do that too.
It's all a series of masks.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 04:36:09 PM
In what sense?  He is really in to Vipassana.  Or devoting a lot of time to the ruse.  I know several people who have run into him at Vipassana retreats, and I also have a friend whose friend who is not a Weezer fan and had a brief discussion with Rivers at a Vipassana retreat (I guess they don't get to talk much at those things) and was very impressed by his commitment.

So ruse or not, Rivers is devoting a lot of time to it. 


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 04:37:05 PM
Quote
It's all a series of masks.

I don't doubt it, but I think Rivers believes the masks are actually plastic surgery.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 04:39:27 PM
In what sense?  He is really in to Vipassana.  Or devoting a lot of time to the ruse.  I know several people who have run into him at Vipassana retreats, and I also have a friend whose friend who is not a Weezer fan and had a brief discussion with Rivers at a Vipassana retreat (I guess they don't get to talk much at those things) and was very impressed by his commitment.

So ruse or not, Rivers is devoting a lot of time to it. 

I'm not denying his passion to it at this point, but remember Dylan's born-again phase? He was pretty damn serious about that, too. But things pass.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 04:41:33 PM
Agreed.  Nobody thinks Dylan was a manipulative control-freak during that time now, do they?  Or do they?  I honestly don't know.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 04:45:47 PM
Quote
Nobody thinks Dylan was a manipulative control-freak during that time now, do they?

He is, was, always shall be. But that didn't make his faith deniable. And it does not with Rivers either.
I just think he knows how to play the breaks, just like Dylan, Madonna, Bowie etc.
How much you're entertained by those antics depends on how much you identify with the performer.
Personally, I don't find him in the league with those I mentioned, but I felt the same way about Cobain.
Therefore, in the minority. So, dig on.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jonas on February 20, 2006, 04:50:18 PM
Rivers hates the Blue Album, or so he says.

thats a damn shame, he'll never be able to top that...then again thats probably the reason why he hates it.

you guys are right, and I stand corrected, its Matt's presence that gives Weezer that extra oomph, not his writing. although he did co-write a couple of songs on the blue album.

I also find it neat that Im in the same boat with a lot of you in the whole 'weezer era/experience'...I was about 12 or so years old when I picked up the Blue Album (right after I watched the 'Undone' video) and from then on =w= played a huge part in my life (emotionally/musically).

rad.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 05:05:02 PM
Yeah, I don't think you can truly have a love/ hate relationship with Weezer unless you were around for "the wait."


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 05:08:09 PM
A question for ya'll.
Why do Weezer fans gravitate towards BW, when Rivers and BW are pretty much complete polar opposites in so many ways?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 05:15:06 PM
For me, Ian, two mutually exclusive events. I knew of weezer slightly from even before my Beatles days, and then after I embraced them as one of a few poppy bands that were around. (I wasn't too hip to much else in 1995.)

The Beach Boys fandom didn't come around until 2000.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jonas on February 20, 2006, 05:17:30 PM
The correlation between Weezer and Brian Wilson, to me, isnon-existen t. Ive always 'liked' the BB because my dad was into them and I'd listen to them when he'd drive me around. Then during my pre-teen cool rocker guy phase I really got into Weezer and was really into that sound. Went on through the whole computer geek phase at 16 when I got into more experimental stuff (idm/edm) til about 21 or so. Thats when I got back into rock and more natural instruments, and somehow in the last few years I just fell into the trap that is The Beach Boys.

I dunno, if they are somehow related it was a long way to get there. Ones thing for sure, pre-green album =w= and the beach boys wrote some fantastic music.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 05:29:26 PM
Quote
Why do Weezer fans gravitate towards BW, when Rivers and BW are pretty much complete polar opposites in so many ways?

Well, some Weezer fans think they like the Beach Boys because they're told by ignorant Weezer fans that the Blue album is Beach Boysesque.

As for me, with both groups I loved the music before getting into the creators of it.  (Incedentally, I've found that when going the other way, I universally end up not liking the music.  If I read about a band before I hear the music, I've NEVER liked the music that much.  At least to the emotional extreme that I like the BB and Weezer.)

Brian and Rivers are just interesting personalities.  I doubt I'd give a tschitt about them if I hadn't fallen head over heals for their music.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 05:30:04 PM
A question for ya'll.
Why do Weezer fans gravitate towards BW, when Rivers and BW are pretty much complete polar opposites in so many ways?


There is something youthful, beautiful, and haunting in the music that both of these men have created. I think they both have a relationship with music, in particular melodies, that would be comparable to relationships a person has with a significant other. They can talk to music and the music will listen and talk back.
It's an unconditional love almost; like a non-verbal understanding and an admiration for music. They treat music the way it deserves to be treated.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: smackdaddy on February 20, 2006, 05:44:42 PM
Maladroit's a great album.  Really tight songsmanship.  

I think the problem with Rivers Cuomo is that he's decided, like many of the big mid-90's alt-rock names, that he really likes being a rock star and will continue to write music that he thinks will be popular until he dies.  This overriding commercial interest will synergize with artistic interests only on an incidental basis.  Fortunately, he's an excellent craftsman so many won't notice.

I think his other big problem is that he somehow got the impression he should be idolizing Green Day and Oasis when they are at the most his peers and at the least his artistic inferiors.

A Weezer Box would be awesome, if only for the unleaked Pinkerton (non SFTBH) tracks.  Outside of a mention in Rivers' Edge, I don't think anyone's heard hide nor hair of them.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 05:51:44 PM
Maladroit's a great album.  Really tight songsmanship.

It's a fun album.

Quote
I think the problem with Rivers Cuomo is that he's decided, like many of the big mid-90's alt-rock names, that he really likes being a rock star and will continue to write music that he thinks will be popular until he dies.

Wasn't he doing that from the beginning?  I think if he has any musical flaw related to his time, it's not exploring his playing ability enough.  We probably have Kurt Cobain to thank for that.

Quote
This overriding commercial interest will synergize with artistic interests only on an incidental basis.  Fortunately, he's an excellent craftsman so many won't notice.

This is where he's really tricking people.  He's a lot smarter than even his best fans will give him credit for.  If you look at some of his most popular stuff, like "Hash Pipe," it's not that far removed from his least popular -- artistically.  But people just notice the surface and can't put both sides of his writing together.

Quote
I think his other big problem is that he somehow got the impression he should be idolizing Green Day and Oasis when they are at the most his peers and at the least his artistic inferiors.

I never really got that, either.  He went from copying some of his most imaginative peers (Flaming Lips, Nirvana, Blur) to copying some of his least imaginative.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 05:56:51 PM
Wasn't he doing that from the beginning?  I think if he has any musical flaw related to his time, it's not exploring his playing ability enough.  We probably have Kurt Cobain to thank for that.


Yep, that's always been his primary goal (with the exception of Pinkerton, which seems to be the only time he switched his perspective, back and forth, during the making.)



I think his biggest problem has been his lack of effort into arranging. Songs that were once intricate have become completely simple. Not that simple is bad, but it's the ethos.




Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 06:00:04 PM
Beyond "eccentric nerd-rocker," I don't think Rivers Cuomo really has much of a public persona. Personally, I don't find him to be a very interesting character outside of his songs. I'm sure he manipulates his image to a small degree, but that's pretty much parcel to being in the music business these days. His songs do seem genuine to me, at any rate. I think most of the "fans" who reject more current Weezer music are emotionally retarded in that they demand the band continue to retool the adolescent themes of the early albums rather than allow them to evolve as Weezer has. Weezer still essentially makes "Weezer music," but it's more streamlined in pure feeling, which is just part of getting older. It's hard to stay hardcore. The predominant Weezer demographic of dissatisfied fans would seem to be in their mid-20s or so -- the same age Rivers Cuomo was when he made "Pinkerton." But that guy is in his mid-30s now, and the music he's writing isn't as immediately appealing to them because he's not channeling so much raw angst. He's moved to someplace where his fans have yet to arrive, I think, and when they do I think they'll be more willing to accept an album like "Make Believe," which is every bit as good as "Pinkerton," in its way. I identify more now with the new Weezer stuff than I do "Pinkerton,"  but when I was 22, 23, 24, I really loved "Pinkerton." Now I'm kind of tired of it and the people who continue to praise it as The Only Album Ever. Even among Weezer albums it's overrated.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 06:06:31 PM
Beyond "eccentric nerd-rocker," I don't think Rivers Cuomo really has much of a public persona. Personally, I don't find him to be a very interesting character outside of his songs. I'm sure he manipulates his image to a small degree, but that's pretty much parcel to being in the music business these days. His songs do seem genuine to me, at any rate. I think most of the "fans" who reject more current Weezer music are emotionally retarded in that they demand the band continue to retool the adolescent themes of the early albums rather than continue to evolve as Weezer has. Weezer still essentially makes "Weezer music," but it's more streamlined in pure feeling, but that's just part of getting older. The predominant Weezer demographic of dissatisfied fans would seem to be in their mid-20s or so -- the same age Rivers Cuomo was when he made "Pinkerton." But that guy is in his mid-30s now, and the music he's writing isn't as immediately appealing to them because he's not channeling so much raw angst. He's moved to someplace where his fans have yet to arrive, I think, and when they do I think they'll be more willing to accept an album like "Make Believe," which is every bit as good as "Pinkerton," in its way. I identify more now with the new Weezer stuff than I do "Pinkerton,"  but when I was 22, 23, 24, I really loved "Pinkerton." Now I'm kind of tired of it and the people who continue to praise it as The Only Album Ever. Even among Weezer albums it's overrated.

That was a really good post.  You're right about the maturity/experience factor -- Pinkerton is a good album, but the less positive sexual experience you have, the more mythic it becomes.

I think Rivers should stop music and start a fund to help his whiney fans make music.  That way they can all shut the f*** up and realize what useless tools most of them are, complaining about his music instead of doing something useful with their own lives.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 06:07:55 PM
I embrace Make Believe for what it is, listen to it almost every and enjoy it,  but it my embracing it doesn't excuse its choppy melodies, pre-adolescent lyrics, and lazy arrangements. And that it was I reject. Not because I'm emotionally retarded, but because it's dizzying to see potential get wasted.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 06:09:03 PM

I think Rivers should stop music and start a fund to help his whiney fans make music.  That way they can all shut the foda up and realize what useless tools most of them are, complaining about his music instead of doing something useful with their own lives.

Hey, put me down for $20!

Shut the foda up, you whiny bunch of useless tools!  ;D


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 06:11:09 PM
I embrace Make Believe for what it is, listen to it almost every and enjoy it,  but it my embracing it doesn't excuse its choppy melodies, pre-adolescent lyrics, and lazy arrangements. And that it was I reject. Not because I'm emotionally retarded, but because it's dizzying to see potential get wasted.

I'm with you.

Quote
Hey, put me down for $20!

Shut the foda up, you whiny bunch of useless tools

Wow, what an amount -- you get a free lapdance in the alley of your choice.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 06:12:31 PM
Quote
I think most of the "fans" who reject more current Weezer music are emotionally retarded in that they demand the band continue to retool the adolescent themes of the early albums rather than continue to evolve as Weezer has.


I reject the new music because it hasn't evolved at all.


Quote
Weezer still essentially makes "Weezer music," but it's more streamlined in pure feeling, but that's just part of getting older.

It doesn't have to be.

Quote
The predominant Weezer demographic of dissatisfied fans would seem to be in their mid-20s or so -- the same age Rivers Cuomo was when he made "Pinkerton."

I was 13 when the Blue album came out, and related to it instantly. 

Quote
But that guy is in his mid-30s now, and the music he's writing isn't as immediately appealing to them because he's not channeling so much raw angst. He's moved to someplace where his fans have yet to arrive, I think, and when they do I think they'll be more willing to accept an album like "Make Believe," which is every bit as good as "Pinkerton," in its way.

I still don't understand why I (yes, I know it's not directed exactly at me, but I take it personally for some reason) get the blame, or even insulted for not liking something that is so subjective.  Make Believe isn't some island that you can "arrive at" where Rivers has landed and I'm still out to sea.  I don't give a schidt about raw angst.  Lyrically, I don't even know if I could sing a Pinkerton song all the way through without forgetting large segments of words.  The creation of music needn't have anything to do with age, or being in a certain place in your life.  How does getting older equate to being allowed to put less thought into your music?

When it comes down to it, we all just want to have our emotions manipulated by music.  In that, I have mine manipulated to my liking more by the Blue album, somebody else may have their manipulated more to their liking by Make Believe.  Fine, that's the way it is.

But to those who like Make Believe, I want to hear a strictly musical analysis of the so-called "evolution" of Weezer.  No emotions, no lyrics, just the music.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 06:14:46 PM
Quote
You're right about the maturity/experience factor -- Pinkerton is a good album, but the less positive sexual experience you have, the more mythic it becomes.

I expect I'll probably end up celibate and a spinster for life, yet I still connect to Pinkerton. 


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 06:22:30 PM
But to those who like Make Believe, I want to hear a strictly musical analysis of the so-called "evolution" of Weezer.  No emotions, no lyrics, just the music.


Impossible, unless you're looking at a very short history. There has been some evolution in the articulation of the songwriting since Maladroit, and some more intervalic melodies, and more dynamics. But overall there has been no evolution. At least I can't think of anything that has evolved, musically. Maybe Brian's writing better parts now..or just writing parts in general. I'd like to be wrong.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 06:24:09 PM
Quote
You're right about the maturity/experience factor -- Pinkerton is a good album, but the less positive sexual experience you have, the more mythic it becomes.

I expect I'll probably end up celibate and a spinster for life, yet I still connect to Pinkerton. 

Does not having sex make you happy?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 06:25:35 PM
Quote
Does not having sex make you happy?

I don't know.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 06:26:10 PM
Quote
Does not having sex make you happy?

I don't know.

That's why you like the album.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 06:35:50 PM
 ;D


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 06:36:14 PM
Boxer, that was CLASSIC!
Shouldn't have removed it!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 06:36:30 PM
How is anyone supposed to understand why you think they've progressed if you WON"T explain it? Please?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 06:37:49 PM
How is anyone supposed to understand why you think they've progressed if you WON"T explain it? Please?

Didn't he kind of imply that Rivers is focusing on more instrospective themes instead of writing songs about how he can't get laid, then he feels bad for getting laid?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 06:38:55 PM
Quote
That's why you like the album.

No, I like it because of the music, the chords, the arrangements, the production.  It could be instrumental with a sax playing all the vocal melodies and, aside from the pleasing timbre of Rivers' voice, I'd like the album just as much.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 06:39:15 PM
Quote
I think most of the "fans" who reject more current Weezer music are emotionally retarded in that they demand the band continue to retool the adolescent themes of the early albums rather than continue to evolve as Weezer has.


I reject the new music because it hasn't evolved at all.


Quote
Weezer still essentially makes "Weezer music," but it's more streamlined in pure feeling, but that's just part of getting older.

It doesn't have to be.

Quote
The predominant Weezer demographic of dissatisfied fans would seem to be in their mid-20s or so -- the same age Rivers Cuomo was when he made "Pinkerton."

I was 13 when the Blue album came out, and related to it instantly. 

Quote
But that guy is in his mid-30s now, and the music he's writing isn't as immediately appealing to them because he's not channeling so much raw angst. He's moved to someplace where his fans have yet to arrive, I think, and when they do I think they'll be more willing to accept an album like "Make Believe," which is every bit as good as "Pinkerton," in its way.

I still don't understand why I (yes, I know it's not directed exactly at me, but I take it personally for some reason) get the blame, or even insulted for not liking something that is so subjective.  Make Believe isn't some island that you can "arrive at" where Rivers has landed and I'm still out to sea.  I don't give a schidt about raw angst.  Lyrically, I don't even know if I could sing a Pinkerton song all the way through without forgetting large segments of words.  The creation of music needn't have anything to do with age, or being in a certain place in your life.  How does getting older equate to being allowed to put less thought into your music?

When it comes down to it, we all just want to have our emotions manipulated by music.  In that, I have mine manipulated to my liking more by the Blue album, somebody else may have their manipulated more to their liking by Make Believe.  Fine, that's the way it is.

But to those who like Make Believe, I want to hear a strictly musical analysis of the so-called "evolution" of Weezer.  No emotions, no lyrics, just the music.

I retract my earlier, rude post. But for such a seemingly articulate person to espouse the hackneyed party line on Weezer -- or *ANY*thing, for that matter -- is deeply tedious for me. It's like the people who you think would know better but don't are much more frustrating to deal with than the fodaing rubes for whom you have no expectations.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 06:39:34 PM
Quote
Didn't he kind of imply that Rivers is focusing on more instrospective themes instead of writing songs about how he can't get laid, then he feels bad for getting laid?

That's lyrical.  I'm talking, as is Andy, about musical progression.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 06:40:54 PM
Even then, intent does not correlate with quality, let alone evolution. Unless you're talking about social evolution I guess, but that's another non musical/lyrical thing.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 06:41:29 PM
Quote
to espouse the hackneyed party line on Weezer

What is the party line?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 06:41:56 PM
Quote
Didn't he kind of imply that Rivers is focusing on more instrospective themes instead of writing songs about how he can't get laid, then he feels bad for getting laid?

That's lyrical.  I'm talking, as is Andy, about musical progression.

I know what you're talking about.  I'm talking about what you're both responding too.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 06:42:42 PM
Musical progression is simply NOT MAKING THE SAME MUSIC!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 06:43:04 PM
I retract my earlier, rude post. But for such a seemingly articulate person to espouse the hackneyed party line on Weezer -- or *ANY*thing, for that matter -- is deeply tedious for me. It's like the people who you think would know better but don't are much more frustrating to deal with than the fodaing rubes for whom you have no expectations.



So tedious, huh? Dude, you're on a musical discussion forum...discuss!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 06:43:40 PM
Quote
Didn't he kind of imply that Rivers is focusing on more instrospective themes instead of writing songs about how he can't get laid, then he feels bad for getting laid?

That's lyrical.  I'm talking, as is Andy, about musical progression.

What the f***? How can you even qualify something like that? Like, every band should be the Beatles or the Beach Boys instead of the Ramones, who tinkered nary at all with what made them great and accordingly remained so? (Gawd, I *CANNOT TAKE* such narrow-minded, "canonical" horseshit!)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 06:45:38 PM
Musical progression is simply NOT MAKING THE SAME MUSIC!

Is it really that simple? I mean, if I go sing one continuous note for 20 minutes, is that a progression? Because I haven't made it before?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 06:45:52 PM
Quote
to espouse the hackneyed party line on Weezer

What is the party line?

Duh: That everything since "Pinkerton" has sucked.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 06:47:28 PM
Quote
Duh: That everything since "Pinkerton" has sucked.

Except I like the Green album, and especially the Green album B-sides.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 06:48:24 PM
Quote
What the foda? How can you even qualify something like that? Like, every band should be the Beatles or the Beach Boys instead of the Ramones, who tinkered nary at all with what made them great and accordingly remained so? (Gawd, I *CANNOT TAKE* such narrow-minded, "canonical" horsemerda!)

I'm lost.  I honestly don't understand why you're so mad here, or what you mean in that post.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 06:49:05 PM
This is the SAME EXACT dancing around the topic that happened with BWPS.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 06:49:30 PM
Quote
Musical progression is simply NOT MAKING THE SAME MUSIC!

Does that mean that by default a new recording is a progression?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 06:52:00 PM
Quote
Musical progression is simply NOT MAKING THE SAME MUSIC!

Does that mean that by default a new recording is a progression?

No.
If you make the same record over and over, that's not a progression.
If you move on and do different things, as Rivers has done, that's a musical progression.
You can NOT LIKE the direction of the progression (which can also be a regression) but if it's different stuff, it's progression.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 06:53:11 PM
Quote
What the foda? How can you even qualify something like that? Like, every band should be the Beatles or the Beach Boys instead of the Ramones, who tinkered nary at all with what made them great and accordingly remained so? (Gawd, I *CANNOT TAKE* such narrow-minded, "canonical" horsemerda!)

I'm lost.  I honestly don't understand why you're so mad here, or what you mean in that post.

That wasn't transparent enough? Must you have EVERYthing **EXPLAINED** to you?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 06:54:49 PM
stalling....


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 06:55:41 PM
stalling....

Which one?  :)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 06:57:52 PM
Everyone.. this will obviously never get back to musical discussion.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 06:58:01 PM
I am saying there's a progression that does not need to be explained, Boxer is saying who the foda cares if there's a progression.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 07:07:00 PM
Quote
If you move on and do different things, as Rivers has done, that's a musical progression.

But I'm asking, what has he done differently musically?  He's using the same basic instrumentation, the same song structure, the same basic production now as he has for the last three albums.  It's been three straight albums of guitar power chords panned hard left and right,  bass, standard drums, (with some nice exceptions on Make Believe, but too minimal to contribute to the overall character of the album), and ABABAB song structure with no contrasting sections.

Make Believe hints at progression at times, as I mentioned parenthetically above.  The piano could have contributed more, but just when Rivers could open up the sound to something more vulnerable, he brings in the standard guitar attack.  Haunt You Every Day was written as just a piano song, and had it stayed that way, it would have been a unique song in the Weezer catalog, but it gets glossed over by the radio-friendly big guitars.

Perfect Situation is, in my view, Rivers' best melody on record since the Green Album.  The piano during the verse hints at some new textures, but again it's blown away by the guitars.

It's enough to keep me around for the next record.  But that's it.  It's not enough a departure that I'd choose to listen to it over the Blue Album.  And it's not intricate enough that I feel like listening to it carefully to uncover hidden layers.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 07:08:45 PM
Quote
I am saying there's a progression that does not need to be explained

I'd like it to be explained.  Nothing needs to be explained, but some people like explanation.

Quote
Boxer is saying who the foda cares if there's a progression.

I do.  I don't mind if you don't, but I feel I'm allowed to care.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 07:09:15 PM
Boxer is saying who the foda cares if there's a progression.

More like the very nature of progression is so subjective that it's impossible to qualify it. MUSICALLY, the White Album could be seen as a step backward from "Sgt. Pepper" but then why is it so compelling (or more so, at least to me)? Like everything has to be more ornate or more complicated or just more! more! more! People mistake this for progress, apparently. Like if Rivers Cuomo subverts a chord progression in the middle part of one of his songs, that's genius, but if he "merely" voices a plain truth accompanied by a simple melody, it's a washout. Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the General Motors School of Songwriting. Innovation is not all about technique.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 07:10:53 PM
Quote
If you move on and do different things, as Rivers has done, that's a musical progression.

But I'm asking, what has he done differently musically?  He's using the same basic instrumentation, the same song structure, the same basic production now as he has for the last three albums.  It's been three straight albums of guitar power chords panned hard left and right,  bass, standard drums, (with some nice exceptions on Make Believe, but too minimal to contribute to the overall character of the album), and ABABAB song structure with no contrasting sections.

Make Believe hints at progression at times, as I mentioned parenthetically above.  The piano could have contributed more, but just when Rivers could open up the sound to something more vulnerable, he brings in the standard guitar attack.  Haunt You Every Day was written as just a piano song, and had it stayed that way, it would have been a unique song in the Weezer catalog, but it gets glossed over by the radio-friendly big guitars.

Perfect Situation is, in my view, Rivers' best melody on record since the Green Album.  The piano during the verse hints at some new textures, but again it's blown away by the guitars.

It's enough to keep me around for the next record.  But that's it.  It's not enough a departure that I'd choose to listen to it over the Blue Album.  And it's not intricate enough that I feel like listening to it carefully to uncover hidden layers.


VERY fair analysis. To MY untrained ears, the new one sounds different to Maladroit, and that one did to Green. But that's just me. If you don't hear progression, that's cool.
But you must still contend with Boxer's assertion.
WHY must there be a progression?

Are Wild Honey and Friends progressions in a musical sense, from the true progressivism of PS/SMiLE/SMiLEY?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 07:11:41 PM
Some people like explanation.


Dang, man, do you know anybody like that?  ???


But you must still contend with Boxer's assertion.
WHY must there be a progression?


And, speaking of explanations, I could be all for "progression in music" if somebody could just EXPLAIN to me exactly what that is.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 07:12:47 PM
Quote
MUSICALLY, the White Album could be seen as a step backward from "Sgt. Pepper" but then why is it so compelling (or more so, at least to me)?

A step, in any direction, is a step.  Backwards or forwards.  I doubt science will ever figure out why certain people are compelled by certain pieces of art.  Fascinting subject.

Quote
Like everything has to be more ornate or more complicated or just more! more! more!


Nobody on this thread has suggested that.

Quote
Like if Rivers Cuomo subverts a chord progression in the middle part of one of his songs, that's genius, but if he "merely" voices a plain truth accompanied by a simple melody, it's a washout. Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the General Motors School of Songwriting. Innovation is not all about technique.

I agree, but what is innovative about Make Believe?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 07:13:31 PM
Quote
Like if Rivers Cuomo subverts a chord progression in the middle part of one of his songs, that's genius, but if he "merely" voices a plain truth accompanied by a simple melody, it's a washout. Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the General Motors School of Songwriting. Innovation is not all about technique.

Word.
Did anyone CARE if the Cars progressed?
Well, apply that lesson. We have no Dylans and Lennons, so we are by default making our Rivers Cuomos and Noel Gallaghers into them. The suit don't fit.
But that's another dialogue.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 07:15:42 PM
Quote
Quote
Like if Rivers Cuomo subverts a chord progression in the middle part of one of his songs, that's genius, but if he "merely" voices a plain truth accompanied by a simple melody, it's a washout. Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the General Motors School of Songwriting. Innovation is not all about technique.

I agree, but what is innovative about Make Believe?

He's not saying it's innovative, he's questioning your reasons for declaring it uninnovative.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 07:24:57 PM
Quote
WHY must there be a progression?

There doesn't need to be a progression.  I'm not the person who brought that word into this discussion.  Others suggested that Weezer was progressing and leaving bitter Pinkerton fans behind.

That said, progression to me indicates a restlessness, which I find attractive.  As a person who is nver really happy with what I'm doing, I feel inspired by those who are able to explore something to a good extent then move on to try something else.  Plus, I like to hear new sounds...but I'm also very partial to certain bands.  I'd probably rather listen to the Beach Boys trying to do a Ska album than buy a Madness record or something.

In Weezer's case, it's pretty simple.  Rivers was starting to go in a direction that I really liked musically, but then all of a sudden it was like going back to square one.  I wouldn't care so much about progression if I hadn't witnessed such a compelling progression initially.

Quote
Are Wild Honey and Friends progressions in a musical sense, from the true progressivism of PS/SMiLE/SMiLEY?

Absolutely.  For one, look at the instrumentation.  Pet Sounds was the classic Spector line-up augmented with Wilsonizers.  Smile started to lose the horn sections and multiple guitars, and turned to more percussion, strings, a sparser sound.  Smiley took that even farther and is organ dominated.  WH is bass and piano heavy with a lot of shouty vocals.  Friends kind of synthesizes the previous 3 years, with a lot of organ, detuned piano, and tight vocals, but adds a lot of upright bass, laid-back Jim Gordon drumming, and acoustic guitar.

Song structure wise, there was a progression as well, from the classic strophes of Pet Sounds to the almost modal vamps of Smile to the simplicity of Smiley and WH, then back to a more classic song feel on Friends.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 07:29:10 PM
Quote
He's not saying it's innovative, he's questioning your reasons for declaring it uninnovative.

I've mentioned them repeatedly. 

Instrumentation

Green Album:  Guitars panned hard left and right playing power chords throughout (except Island), bass, drums, vocal harmony at the third.

Maladroit:  Guitars panned hard left and right playing power chords throughout (except Burdnt Jamb), bass, drums, vocal harmony at the third.

Make Believe:  Guitars panned hard left and right playing power chords throughout (except for Perfect Situation initially and HYED where there's some tantalizingly inconsequential piano), bass, drums, vocal harmony at the third.

Songs

Green:  ABABABA
Maladroit:  ABABABA
Make Believe: ABABABA


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 07:30:26 PM
Well, OK!  ;D


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 07:32:49 PM
There doesn't need to be a progression.  I'm not the person who brought that word into this discussion. 

Hold up: If there doesn't have to be a progression, as you concur, then why are you continuing to argue so stringently that there hasn't been one, as if it should still matter?

... then back to a more classic song feel on Friends.

That's not "back to square one"?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 07:34:08 PM

Songs

Green:  ABABABA
Maladroit:  ABABABA
Make Believe: ABABABA

Wow ... so it's ROCK MUSIC, then? (Who woulda thunk it?)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 07:40:21 PM
Quote
Hold up: If there doesn't have to be a progression, as you concur, then why are you continuing to argue so stringently that there hasn't been one, as if it should still matter?

Because I have nothing else to do, I love Weezer, I'm sad I don't like their recent albums, and I like talking about music with people on this board.  Er, I thought I did.

Quote
That's not "back to square one"?

No.  I could explain it more, but I have a feeling it wouldn't matter either way.

Quote
Wow ... so it's ROCK MUSIC, then? (Who woulda thunk it?)

Rock, any healthy genre of music, doesn't have to adhere to strict standards.  When it does, you get boring music that sounds the same.  At least to me.  I like variety within a band's catalog.  Why settle for two cool parts of a song when you could have three?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 07:43:31 PM
I like talking about music with people on this board.  Er, I thought I did.

Um, OK ...

I could explain it more, but I have a feeling it wouldn't matter either way.

Welcome to my world!

Why settle for two cool parts of a song when you could have three?

I dunno. Because excess isn't a virtue, maybe?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 07:44:41 PM
Quote
Why settle for two cool parts of a song when you could have three?

Because sometimes I'd rather hear Misirlou than Here Today.

Guys, if you're trying to "figure" out Rivers, seriously, study Dylan's career. It's a mini-version.
Just when EVERY Weezer fan gives up and stops buying their stuff, the "classic" Weezer album everyone wants will come out. Weezer people will proclaim "Rivers is back", then he'll go back to making everyone hate him.
It's a well, WELL trod path.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 07:45:54 PM
Quote
Why settle for two cool parts of a song when you could have three?

Because sometimes I'd rather hear Misirlou than Here Today.

Guys, if you're trying to "figure" out Rivers, seriously, study Dylan's career. It's a mini-version.
Just when EVERY Weezer fan gives up and stops buying their stuff, the "classic" Weezer album everyone wants will come out. Weezer people will proclaim "Rivers is back", then he'll go back to making everyone hate him.
It's a well, WELL trod path.

 ;D


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 07:47:06 PM
Discussing music is so fucking stupid.  Know why?  Because it's never about music.  f*** all of you.  Seriously.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 07:48:49 PM
Talk about some music that's worth discussing in such painful detail and I'll be happy to.
Like Pinkerton.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 07:49:29 PM
Discussing music is so fodaing stupid.  Know why?  Because it's never about music.  foda all of you.  Seriously.

Damn. I guess I shouldn't have deleted my post about how I resent taking tissue to crybaby ass in the name of these Weezer threads ...


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 07:50:25 PM
I think you are all asshats. Seriously. And all of us are the stereotypical Weezer fan- bitch. If this isn't sefl fulfilling prophecy, I don't know what is.

I'm glad I spent the evening watching the hilarious drivel that is "Saving Silverman."


I think Rivers has made a deliberate point for each album to be and sound different from the last. That's in part where the Missing Years went... looking for the next sound and when he found it, it was *simpler* than the album before it. (*Simpler* in that there's no pretentious songs with "butterfly" metaphors or "Pink triangles" or "shaven heads" etc.)

And you can't relax long enough to listen to and enjoy "Maladroit" because it's simply fun and the production is great and the playing is great, shutup and go listen to your 47 takes of "Good Vibrations" for pleasure.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: DavidLeeRoth on February 20, 2006, 07:51:08 PM
I hope you're right Ian.  As much as I like Make Believe the direction Rivers was taking right after the Pinkerton sessions was excellent.  I'm sure his chops on guitar and piano are more than up to the task to accomplish anything he wants musically these days.

DLR


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 07:51:18 PM
Well and I was worried my kissoff had gone too far.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 07:52:51 PM
I think you are all asshats. Seriously. And all of us are the stereotypical Weezer fan- bitch. If this isn't sefl fulfilling prophecy, I don't know what is.

I'm glad I spent the evening watching the hilarious drivel that is "Saving Silverman."


I think Rivers has made a deliberate point for each album to be and sound different from the last. That's in part where the Missing Years went... looking for the next sound and when he found it, it was *simpler* than the album before it. (*Simpler* in that there's no pretentious songs with "butterfly" metaphors or "Pink triangles" or "shaven heads" etc.)

And you can't relax long enough to listen to and enjoy "Maladroit" because it's simply fun and the production is great and the playing is great, shutup and go listen to your 47 takes of "Good Vibrations" for pleasure.

That's either the funniest thing you've ever done, or you're serious.

Quote
Discussing music is so fodaing stupid.  Know why?  Because it's never about music.  foda all of you.  Seriously.

Any time I've tried talking about music with you in the past the response is, "I'm so glad I don't care about lyrics."  This is why people are being rude to you.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 07:53:03 PM
I think you are all asshats. Seriously. And all of us are the stereotypical Weezer fan- bitch. If this isn't sefl fulfilling prophecy, I don't know what is.

I'm glad I spent the evening watching the hilarious drivel that is "Saving Silverman."


I think Rivers has made a deliberate point for each album to be and sound different from the last. That's in part where the Missing Years went... looking for the next sound and when he found it, it was *simpler* than the album before it. (*Simpler* in that there's no pretentious songs with "butterfly" metaphors or "Pink triangles" or "shaven heads" etc.)

And you can't relax long enough to listen to and enjoy "Maladroit" because it's simply fun and the production is great and the playing is great, shutup and go listen to your 47 takes of "Good Vibrations" for pleasure.


Exactly.

Quote
I guess I shouldn't have deleted my post about how I resent taking tissue to crybaby ass in the name of these Weezer threads ...

TOLD YOU!  :P


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 07:55:04 PM
Quote
Any time I've tried talking about music with you in the past the response is, "I'm so glad I don't care about lyrics."  This is why people are being rude to you.
 
 

Yep. And I still love ya, Aeij.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 07:55:16 PM
Serious. And I was typing that while H was telling us (you guys, not me really) to "foda off."


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 07:59:18 PM
I think you are all asshats. Seriously.

Gee, and I thought this had been a reasonably lucid, critical discussion *ABOUT MUSIC* until the "f*** yous" and "asshats" started flying.

I wouldn't wish "Saving Silverman" on my worst fucking enemy. (At least have the dignity to watch porn, you fucking loser.)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 08:01:17 PM
Beckner wa'nt calling u out, Box.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 08:02:14 PM
I know! I shoulda added  :) or  ;) or :D or  ;D or  :-* ...


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 08:02:45 PM
Beckner wa'nt calling u out, Box.

"I think you all are asshats"?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 08:03:38 PM
(I still recommend porn over "Saving Silverman," though.) (Dude, I'll fucking mail some to Baltimore ... )


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 08:03:57 PM
Beckner wa'nt calling u out, Box.

"I think you all are asshats"?

I thought it was ironic commentary on the lack of progression in Rivers' lyrics.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 08:04:38 PM
It was a jovial "asshat calling" posted before the "foda off" came about. Directed at all of us. Because what's the Weezer fan stereotype? This fucking lame damn thread!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 08:06:44 PM
This fodaing lame damn thread!

[Hysterically] WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 08:06:54 PM
It was a jovial "asshat calling" posted before the "foda off" came about. Directed at all of us. Because what's the Weezer fan stereotype? This fodaing lame damn thread!

Well, that's why I asked if you were serious.  And I don't think this thread has had that much stereotypical Weezer stuff.  We've been talking more about our personalities than Rivers'.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 08:09:24 PM
Quote
We've been talking more about our personalities than Rivers'.

And that's what REAL music criticism is.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 08:09:43 PM
We've been talking more about our personalities than Rivers'.

Speak for yourself: If you re-read my posts, they're all about what an asshole Beckner is.  ;D


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 08:10:47 PM
We've been talking more about our personalities than Rivers'.

Speak for yourself: If you re-read my posts, they're all about what an asshole Beckner is.  ;D

AHHH!
This makes sense now:
Quote
Because excess isn't a virtue


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 08:13:18 PM
Quote
We've been talking more about our personalities than Rivers'.

And that's what REAL music criticism is.

Haha :)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 08:14:41 PM
(Beckner: You know I don't really think you're an asshole, right? That was said strictly in the interest of bad taste.)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 08:19:59 PM
You know it. I was chatting on AIM the other night with the girl I currently... (don't even have the right word) "work" with, and I told her my tombstone should say "Dave Beckner, Sensitive Asshole." It was a joke but I think it's true.

You know, in the first pages of this thread, I pretty much laid it all out. "Pinkerton" is a heavy trip for me musically-- there's a rich tapestry of love and failure imbedded into those songs for me, each song's words overlayed with darker personal memories of love and life lost. This past year has been by and large "The Good Life" all in all-- I'm on my own finally and yet I sit in my basement most nights chatting up electronic pals. Who's fault is that?  Mine all mine-- A few months ago, at a trendy Baltimore dance club that I was dragged to, the djs cued up "The Good Life" and suddenly the song was the moment as I felt as one with the rest of the cavorting masses.

Quote
(Beckner: You know I don't really think you're an asshole, right? That was said strictly in the interest of bad taste.)

No I was writing the above. I know I am an asshole. Only an asshole buys the VU boxset and hates it.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 08:22:40 PM
Discussing music is so fodaing stupid.  Know why?  Because it's never about music.  foda all of you.  Seriously.



Because people can't stick to music, that's why. I've seen it on every freaking message board. You get to a certain level of reasoning and there is that one stock answer that's brought up everywhere. And then it's all backwards from there. And people ask why there needs to be progression. How fitting. Really! ::shakes head::


Don't get all pissy when someone requests, on a musical discussion topic/thread, to talk about music! Jesus.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 08:26:37 PM
OK, I was going to go to bed and not come back to the board for a couple weeks, but i felt so bad I knew i couldn't sleep on it.  I'm sorry for letting my temper get the best of me.

This is how I feel.  I started giving my opinions, writing how I feel about cetain things.  Then Boxer Monkey started insulting me.   I don't know if he was serious or not.  But things like this:

Quote
I think most of the "fans" who reject more current Weezer music are emotionally retarded

That way they can all shut the foda up and realize what useless tools most of them are

But for such a seemingly articulate person to espouse the hackneyed party line on Weezer -- or *ANY*thing, for that matter -- is deeply tedious for me. It's like the people who you think would know better but don't are much more frustrating to deal with than the fodaing rubes for whom you have no expectations.

Gawd, I *CANNOT TAKE* such narrow-minded, "canonical" horsemerda!

Must you have EVERYthing **EXPLAINED** to you?

stuff that's not about the topic, but instead about my negative qualities, well, it starts to add up and make me feel very bad.  I didn't call anybody emotionally retarded or narrow-minded.  I'm asking the questions I'm asking because I really want to know where other people are coming from, and I can't do that with so much sarcasm.  Maybe I do need to leave the board.  I can't tell when people are serious and when they're not.  If this was all in fun, then I'm sorry I got so emotional.  I mean, I was almost crying because of this!  We'll call it my princessy/diva moment of the month, I guess.  It's dumb, yes, but I don't remember asking for so much.

Are you guys so angry at me, or whatever it is you are at me because you feel incapable of describing music?  I don't understand, it doesn't take a degree in theory to discuss music.

If I were you, here would be my response to myself.

Quote
Instrumentation

Green Album:  Guitars panned hard left and right playing power chords throughout (except Island), bass, drums, vocal harmony at the third.

Maladroit:  Guitars panned hard left and right playing power chords throughout (except Burdnt Jamb), bass, drums, vocal harmony at the third.

Make Believe:  Guitars panned hard left and right playing power chords throughout (except for Perfect Situation initially and HYED where there's some tantalizingly inconsequential piano), bass, drums, vocal harmony at the third.

Songs

Green:  ABABABA
Maladroit:  ABABABA
Make Believe: ABABABA

Yeah, but that's kind of oversimplifying things, isn't it?  Yes all three albums have the same basic instrumentation, but it's not used the same way.  For example, the style of the guitars on Green is almost a backdrop wall of sound that the vocal floats on, but on Maladroit the guitars are more upfront to spar with the vocals.  Plus, on Maladroit the guitars are much more rhythmically varied.  it's still distorted power chords, but playing a lot of moving riffs makes for a very different listen from Green.  

The drums on green and Maladroit are miles apart.  There's a lot of different sounds on Maladroit, from the open sounds to some of the stranger sounds they got recording in the little booth at Capitol.  The drums on Make Believe are a little generic, but they do sound a little more open and less compressed than on the last two records, and I think that enhances Pat's playing.

END

Then I (aeijtzsche) would respond to that something like this:

You make some good points, but to me, the stylistic stuff is fine, and yeah, it's fun to hear some riffage every now and again, but the thing that really bothers me about it isn't so much the result as the approach.  It just doesn't seem to occur to them that they have other options besides the standard two guitar/bass/drums approach.

and so on...



I'd just like to say once more that I'm sorry for getting angry.  It wasn't out of any dislike for any of you, it was just some kind of weird cyber pain defense.  Please forgive the outburst and continue to think of me as you did before that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                




Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Beckner on February 20, 2006, 08:30:40 PM
"I should have no feeling, 'cause feeling is pain."


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 08:31:29 PM
No problem, Aeij.
We all tend to think of music in more abstract and symbological terms than you do. It's just more a mismatch conversationally than anything else.
Don't take it all so seriously and don't feel bad for taking it seriously.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 08:37:22 PM

This is how I feel.  I started giving my opinions, writing how I feel about cetain things.  Then Boxer Monkey started insulting me.   I don't know if he was serious or not.  But things like this:

Quote
I think most of the "fans" who reject more current Weezer music are emotionally retarded

That way they can all shut the foda up and realize what useless tools most of them are

But for such a seemingly articulate person to espouse the hackneyed party line on Weezer -- or *ANY*thing, for that matter -- is deeply tedious for me. It's like the people who you think would know better but don't are much more frustrating to deal with than the fodaing rubes for whom you have no expectations.

Gawd, I *CANNOT TAKE* such narrow-minded, "canonical" horsemerda!

Must you have EVERYthing **EXPLAINED** to you?
                                                                                                   

Yeah. I'm sure this is all my fault ...


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 08:39:02 PM
It's years of frustration towards Weezer fan mentality. It's got to be taken out on somebody!  ;D


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 08:40:09 PM
If you could just stick up for your bold claim, none of this would've happened. There was NO need to get defensive, man.


If you say Make Believe is a progression, back it up. If you can't, walk away.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 08:42:01 PM
It's years of frustration towards Weezer fan mentality. It's got to be taken out on somebody!  ;D


Sorry Ian, but it's never justified to flat out call someone emotionally retarded, joke or not, ESPECIALLY when you don't know how the other person is going to take it.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 08:42:21 PM
Yeah, but if I just said, "f*** you all! Seriously," then everybody would just kiss my ass and I wouldn't have to prove anything!

f*** you all! Seriously!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 08:42:51 PM
Quote
Weezer still essentially makes "Weezer music," but it's more streamlined in pure feeling, which is just part of getting older.

You CAN'T WRITE LYRICS OUT OF THE EQUATION.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 08:43:48 PM
It's years of frustration towards Weezer fan mentality. It's got to be taken out on somebody!  ;D


Sorry Ian, but it's never justified to flat out call someone emotionally retarded, joke or not, ESPECIALLY when you don't know how the other person is going to take it.

He didn't say Josh was. He said most Weezer fans are. That's true. And I think most would admit to it.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 08:44:05 PM
It's years of frustration towards Weezer fan mentality. It's got to be taken out on somebody!  ;D


Sorry Ian, but it's never justified to flat out call someone emotionally retarded, joke or not, ESPECIALLY when you don't know how the other person is going to take it.

Re-read my post: I was referring to a specific kind of Weezer fan, not any one person here. But if the shoe fits ...

Anyway, I'm done here.

f*** you all! Seriously!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 08:44:09 PM
Yeah, but if I just said, "foda you all! Seriously," then everybody would just kiss my ass and I wouldn't have to prove anything!

foda you all! Seriously!

No, that wasn't right either. And he apologized.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 08:44:25 PM
Quote
Yeah. I'm sure this is all my fault ...

I don't believe anybody is "at fault."  You words hurt, but I'm sure I've said some hurtful things to you at some point, so it's all even in the end.

Ian, was my rebuttal to myself really that outside the way an "abstract/symbolic" thinker thinks?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 08:45:22 PM
You're right, guys. You didn't specifically refer to anyone, but knowing that you're posting in a WEEZER thread with WEEZER fans in it, it MIGHT be taken personally. And he told you he did, so why the pride now?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 08:47:48 PM
You're right, guys. You didn't specifically refer to anyone, but knowing that you're posting in a WEEZER thread with WEEZER fans in it, it MIGHT be taken personally. And he told you he did, so why the pride now?

But Boxer is a Weezer fan too. I like em too. No one is separating themselves.
It's the whole Weezer situation that that kind of talk would even be taken seriously.
You think Who fans would get their feelings hurt by a general statement? Stones fans?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 08:48:31 PM
Human beings? merda, we're all people. Yeah, I can see how a weezer fan might be stereotyped as more sensitive.

But dude, we're on a musical message board. Some people obviously care a lot about music and take it very seriously. Some people don't joke, some people aren't very good at reading whether or not someone else is joking, and some people do.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 08:49:35 PM
Quote
Yeah. I'm sure this is all my fault ...

I don't believe anybody is "at fault."  You words hurt, but I'm sure I've said some hurtful things to you at some point, so it's all even in the end.

Ian, was my rebuttal to myself really that outside the way an "abstract/symbolic" thinker thinks?

It was pretty cold and literalist to me, but I think about music in a completely different way. But that's cool. You're a historian/musical theorist.
I'm a critic.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 08:52:10 PM
Human beings? merda, we're all people.

Let's put it this way. I'll do an experiment.
I'll say that most fans of another artist are emotionally retarded and see if I get a similar response.
Weezer fans are an ODD LOT! That's all I am saying, and I have had problems relating to them.
But the MUSIC is cool. And that's what it should be about, as you guys said.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 08:53:41 PM
I'm sorry for letting my feelings get hurt.  I'll try to be more macho like a Stones fan next time.

Quote
It was pretty cold and literalist to me, but I think about music in a completely different way. But that's cool. You're a historian/musical theorist.
I'm a critic.

Guitar sounds are cold and literalist?  You have to make me understand how you think.  That's why I'm discussing music on a music board, to learn how other people think.  New perspective.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 08:53:53 PM
You're right. It should be about the music. Sorry to digress.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 20, 2006, 09:01:54 PM
Well, I think that progress, at least what I consider progress (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=progress), is possible when you have the potential to be a great writer. Rivers has written some of the most articulate melodies (sorry, that's just the way I describe things) and songs of the past twenty years, and when I hear anyone with that gift I'm always rooting for them to do something amazing. Anyways, Those gifts of Rivers' have not been used very well on the past couple of albums. I love both Maladroit and Make Believe, and I give them way more listening time these days than I do most stuff, but it just wasn't much of a step in any direction. Just kind of treading water.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 09:07:03 PM
I'm sorry for letting my feelings get hurt.  I'll try to be more macho like a Stones fan next time.

Quote
It was pretty cold and literalist to me, but I think about music in a completely different way. But that's cool. You're a historian/musical theorist.
I'm a critic.

Guitar sounds are cold and literalist?  You have to make me understand how you think.  That's why I'm discussing music on a music board, to learn how other people think.  New perspective.

Not the sound, the descriptiveness and the contextual emphasis on sounds over meaning.
Aeij, your reaction proved what I was saying before.
That Weezer and the BB's are strangely tied together for people who may be be sensitive and emotionally damaged, as well as those who are damaged and act in anger in sarcastic manners, like me and Boxer.
We're all that way, and that's what draws us to the BB's.
We just act out in different ways, take it out on each other. In coversations about BOTH bands.
Do any other bands inspire such emotions in their fans?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 09:10:57 PM
Do any other bands inspire such emotions in their fans?

Bel Biv Devoe?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 09:14:46 PM
(http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/images/TaskForce/screaminggirls.jpg)

Feel free to Photoshop yourself in there, stud.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 09:17:32 PM
(http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/images/TaskForce/screaminggirls.jpg)

Feel free to Photoshop yourself in her, stud.

Bonus.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 09:20:37 PM
THREAD KILLAZ REUNION TOUR!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 20, 2006, 09:28:07 PM
THREAD KILLAZ REUNION TOUR!

You're borrowing from Dylan again, aren't you?



Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 09:29:46 PM
THREAD KILLAZ REUNION TOUR!

You're borrowing from Dylan again, aren't you?



If you can't beat em, join em.

 (http://www.geocities.com/Mouse2002/rivers.jpg)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Mitchell on February 20, 2006, 09:35:14 PM
Wow, I missed a lot tonight.

I just have to say this... I think the problem for Rivers is that everyone thinks he's being ironic when he's being sincere.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Boxer Monkey on February 20, 2006, 09:47:25 PM
Yeah, well, I just have to say this: I am *NEVER* gonna enter into discussion with any of you pusillanimous Weezer simps (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) again. How fodaing dare you tell everybody to foda off and then come back and blame your infantile outbursts on me? Kiss my ass! And I extend said cheeks to any cheezepuff moral arbiter who interjects the occasional "yeah" into the discussion as if this serves as a valid contribution, then chastizes *me* after I've just been told to foda off! Enough of that, you buncha babies! Associating with you losers is giving me contact diaper rash.

(And no: I'm NOT fodaing kidding, either.)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: I. Spaceman on February 20, 2006, 09:56:57 PM
Awww f*** it. I'll be controversial and agree.

I like you dudes, you're great people, but where THIS band is concerned, we don't see eye to eye.



Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2006, 10:03:19 PM
Quote
the descriptiveness and the contextual emphasis on sounds over meaning.

Sound is meaning to me.  Are you saying that an instrumental piece can't have meaning, or that in a song the lyrics and the music are so inextricably tied that you can't take them apart?  If you believe the latter, then why do you and others discuss lyrics by themselves?

Again, I'm asking you to explain to me how you think.

I'll wager I grasp things a lot more abstractly and symbolically than you have me pegged for.  For example, I see music productions.  Music is mostly visual to me.

The reason I care so much about who played what on Beach Boys sessions is not some statistical urge, it's because I'm lonely and thinking about the people that I'm hearing on the session tape puts me in that room with those people.  Having that information just makes the connection.

Ultimately I've come to my opinions about Weezer not through analysis, but through pure emotion.  I noticed that the Blue Album made me cry and laugh, and that Maladroit made me want to go do something else.  So I wonder why I feel that way.  And you know what, in the end, I really don't know.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on February 21, 2006, 02:13:07 AM
I went to sleep with 5 pages of Pinkerton discussion!


I was like 10 when the Blue Album came out, I think a friend taped it for me
around 94/95. I got Pinkerton very soon it came out. After that my weezer admiration topped.
That was during the hiatus, there was no Weezer activity that I know of, I didn't have internet. I was
12  and there was no tour, nothing. I wrote Karl and he wrote back, that truly was something in the pre-internet days,
I was still going to primary school. When Green came out I was thrilled, finally a new record! And I liked it some much, but I think that was because I could really listen to something new. I had all the b-sides and the Rentals records came close but no close enough (still think their first is brilliant). The interesting episode started when they were putting lot's of recordinginfo on their website (yes I finally had internet!). I must have been 16 or something. And it was written in Karl's Korner during the recording of album 3 that there wass a meeting with Geffen and they simply hated the record. I think Geffen/Interscope intervention with Weezer (a band they forgot to dump after 1997) has been crucial for the Green Album, especially 'cause Cuomo generally likes to shitcan his own work. The songs that eventually came out are good, melodies are great, but the production? Garbage, simply garbage, I like the tone, the image it puts in to your head in the quiet parts, but when the song breaks it's too massive. It's the wall of sound without interesting ideas going on. The solo's were so lame too. The structure of the songs is too transparent.

That being said, after Green, Weezer put out everything they worked on (that's how I like it!)
Remember the day that they posted the DC recordings? I was thrilled, it was so down to earth, the songs were fun.
Don't tell me that you don't like the acoustic Puerta Vajarta? What a great instrumental, it's only a demo, but you can hear that it would have been great if it was going to be fleshed out (sadly the maladroit isn't that fleshed out). Keep Fishin' sounded so fresh compared to the Green stuff. Listen Up had a vibe that they never captured after that (the maladroit demo of it is too dark, too heavy). Saturday Night, not a super song, but it had a funky riff, it was fun, when they finally did it for maladroit it was tied with a metal riff, sounded awful. Zep song/Not in Love with You, ok you can hear the metal riffing comming up, not a fan of that sort of music, I think it's a part of Rivers, but not really fitting with his voice, not with Weezer anyway. But at least the music breaths, American Gigolo, same story, they play it higher, it gives the song a happier feeling. Take Control, although I like the big sound on Maladroit, it's the Weezer sound that we all know, was better on the DC demos. A great fingerpicking line by Brian (I asume) and a nice melody played staccato( or something like that) which to me know sounds like something Franz Ferdinand or Kaiser Chiefs could do.
Burdnt Jamb, what do I have to say about that? They played it great here, but even better on Maladroit. It's a great song.

The DC Demos of 5/27/01 showed that Weezer still had it, now if you don't mind, I will do all the other Maladriot demo-sessions later. But I think the DC demos make it clear that Rivers was going for another sound, new funkier, happier, melodic things (Keep Fishin',Saturday Night, Burndt Jamb, Puerte Vajarta) and some heavy riff things (American Gigolo, Zep Song). Take Control and Listen Up could go either way,  eventually Weezer choose the heavy side of their new sound. The progression that Weezer made was a rhythmical one.
 


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 21, 2006, 07:23:43 AM
Yeah, well, I just have to say this: I am *NEVER* gonna enter into discussion with any of you pusillanimous Weezer simps (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) again. How fodaing dare you tell everybody to foda off and then come back and blame your infantile outbursts on me? Kiss my ass! And I extend said cheeks to any cheezepuff moral arbiter who interjects the occasional "yeah" into the discussion as if this serves as a valid contribution, then chastizes *me* after I've just been told to foda off! Enough of that, you buncha babies! Associating with you losers is giving me contact diaper rash.

(And no: I'm NOT fodaing kidding, either.)

Yeah.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 21, 2006, 07:46:10 AM
I agree with you, Bill. I think the Maladroit-era songs are fun and loose. As much crud is given to that time period and how much of it is considered mindless indulgence, I can still hear the personal touches of each member in each song. It's weezer in that sense. It's Rivers' style of shredding, Scott's style of bass playing, and Pat's style of drumming all in the mold of someone else's style of arena rock.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jonas on February 21, 2006, 07:58:05 AM
Everyone just needs to relax and get it through to them that Weezer sucks now. Yes, they were awesome...but they suck now.

now lets throw on 'My Name is Jonas' and get psyched!

p.s. anyone ever been to a website named 'Jonas' Weezer Page'?

yeaaaaaaaaaaaaa  8)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on February 21, 2006, 08:44:27 AM
it doesn't exist anymore
what was on it?



Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jonas on February 21, 2006, 08:51:46 AM
That was the site I put up when I was like 12 or 13 years old...I learned HTML just to put that sucker up.



Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on February 21, 2006, 09:30:18 AM
Funny,

come to think of it
I also made a weezer site in Word. Haha! I didn't know how to make a site.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Kirk Lowdermilk on February 21, 2006, 12:18:07 PM
I made a Weezer newsletter with two Arby's Big Montana wrappers. I used a mixture of my tears and horsey sauce for ink.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 21, 2006, 03:49:21 PM
I made a Weezer newsletter with two Arby's Big Montana wrappers. I used a mixture of my tears and horsey sauce for ink.

That's one of my favorite posts on this site.

Do any of you think the tensions in the Weezer fan base would evaporate if Rivers was solo?  So many solo artists from popular groups are, generally, torn apart by critics and/or fans once they leave the group: Paul McCartney, Lou Reed, Frank Black.  I think if Rivers had gone solo instead of dragging Weezer out, people would just rip his solo stuff and not fight over Weezer so much.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 21, 2006, 03:55:41 PM
Yeah, that might be right. Look at BW though.  It's the reverse for him almost. People rip all over the existing BB but overly praise BW.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 21, 2006, 03:57:39 PM
But, since Rivers is pretty much weezer, and the other members haven't really interfered with letting him BE weezer, that situation might not happen. It could depend on the quality of the music. Maybe people expected Macca and the others you listed to be better when they were a part of a group. I don't think people have that with Rivers. So many factors, Chris.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 21, 2006, 04:07:57 PM
Yeah, that might be right. Look at BW though.  It's the reverse for him almost. People rip all over the existing BB but overly praise BW.

People totally flame certain Brian albums though.  Because of Brian's personal issues he's sort of in a different class.  It's trendy to like someone like that.

Quote
But, since Rivers is pretty much weezer, and the other members haven't really interfered with letting him BE weezer, that situation might not happen.

That's why I think it hasn't happened.  I mean if Rivers had broken up the band after Pinkerton instead of going on a long break.

Quote
It could depend on the quality of the music. Maybe people expected Macca and the others you listed to be better when they were a part of a group.

It usually doesn't depend on the music, though, which is what I was trying to get at.  I'm not saying you can't dislike a person's solo work while liking their group work, but I think often fans do that because it's acceptable and easy.  People expect them not to be better in the group, so much, but to replicate the group's work, which is stupid.  Despite the fact that Rivers "is" Weezer I think it could have happened to him just as it happened to Frank Black, who was the Pixies, for the most part.  It could probably happen to anyone assuming their are no overarching factors influencing their popularity -- like Brian with mental illness or the "idiot savant" public image he gets from a lot of people.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: mike thornton on February 21, 2006, 10:01:27 PM
this is phuckin hilarious. weezer is just okay. eminem is waaaay more talented. which isn't saying much. the day the music died lately was when kurt played the ultimate chickenshyat. selfishasshole. gee, come to think of it, that does in a lot of great collaborative art. the bb's/bw attractive to whiner types? wounded types? follower in the mom's basement types? that's pretty pathetic. no, kidz brian is a phucking genius. this dismembered psyche crap that seems to follow brian around is really sad. geesus, all you musician types. get off the computer and find your own voice. don't sit around worshipping someone. the *only* reason i come here is for the times that the principals post. thank you stephen!!! i think i'll go have a drink with mike vosse. lata.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Chris D. on February 22, 2006, 07:34:05 AM
Quote
no, kidz brian is a phucking genius.

I'm older than you.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Fantastico! on February 22, 2006, 07:36:17 AM
this is phuckin hilarious. weezer is just okay. eminem is waaaay more talented. which isn't saying much. the day the music died lately was when kurt played the ultimate chickenshyat. selfishasshole. gee, come to think of it, that does in a lot of great collaborative art. the bb's/bw attractive to whiner types? wounded types? follower in the mom's basement types? that's pretty pathetic. no, kidz brian is a phucking genius. this dismembered psyche crap that seems to follow brian around is really sad. geesus, all you musician types. get off the computer and find your own voice. don't sit around worshipping someone. the *only* reason i come here is for the times that the principals post. thank you stephen!!! i think i'll go have a drink with mike vosse. lata.

light a match.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on February 24, 2006, 12:03:29 PM
I've been doing lot's of research on Rivers'songs lately
not in a detailed musical way
no analysis of chord patterns
but more in general terms
and it struck me that
for Maladriot and even more for Make Believe
ton's of songs were demoed and even properly recorded
but that none of them were released as a b-side
weezer singles were great till the Green Album
you could hear songs that were so great that you
couldn't come up with a single reason why they were left of their records
(IJTOTLOMD anybody? I Do? Always?Mykel and Carli?You gave your love to me softly?)
after that it was downhill on the B-side front (lot's of singles released though, even smash hits)
Do we really need another live version of Island in the Sun?
Why don't chip in a Prodigy Lover? Excellent song
why not How Long?

I think Rivers or maybe some A&R simply started to either don't care about B-sides or
didn't think the audience wanted to hear rare songs (how fodaing wrong can you be?)
I don't want to over generalise things, but isn't it fair to say
that the Blue and Pinkerton-period and to some lesser extent the Green period
were interesting on the B-side front and you can see that as a small part of the overal Weezer histroy
which also declined musically from those years


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Mitchell on February 24, 2006, 01:14:34 PM
I agree. One of the things that was so great about 'Blue/Pinkerton weezer' was the fact that even their b-sides were great. From that era, there were 20 album tracks, plus another 8-10 b-sides and all of it was great stuff. When it came to Green, as you said, they were still doing well in that department. I think the problem started when they had too many songs to choose from and the songs weren't up to a high level of quality. As for why they don't release b-sides now, I have no idea!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on February 25, 2006, 03:44:19 AM
It seems that This Is Such A Pity is going to be the 4th single of Make Believe
let's see what that brings
I guess a remix of Island in the Sun mashed with Beverly Hills. Yes, I'm bitter


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 25, 2006, 07:54:42 AM
The problem is that Rivers doesn't want to release any more new material than he has to to Geffen. He doesn't want them owning any more than they already do, so we're Island In The Sun live and the Beverly Hills urbanix mix instead.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 25, 2006, 07:55:21 AM
I really hope Pity becomes the 4th single, and I hope they give it the support it deserves. But I'm skeptical.


Well, nm..It is the 4th single!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Mitchell on February 25, 2006, 10:29:02 AM
I was watching VCD last night. What happened to that different version of Island in the Sun? It has a really cool solo leading into the chorus, but that's all you hear. It's during the Stoopid Fresh part.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 25, 2006, 10:59:44 AM
That solo is from a different song. Karl spliced the two songs together..and I can't think of the name of that other song.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on February 25, 2006, 12:41:51 PM
The problem is that Rivers doesn't want to release any more new material than he has to to Geffen. He doesn't want them owning any more than they already do, so we're Island In The Sun live and the Beverly Hills urbanix mix instead.

this is a good point
weezer owes geffen one new album
right?
The should definately sign with Matador or Domino rec.
or another big Indie company after they fullfill their contract


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Mitchell on February 25, 2006, 10:24:13 PM
That solo is from a different song. Karl spliced the two songs together..and I can't think of the name of that other song.

Ah, the things I don't know! Too bad.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on February 26, 2006, 07:34:00 AM
The problem is that Rivers doesn't want to release any more new material than he has to to Geffen. He doesn't want them owning any more than they already do, so we're Island In The Sun live and the Beverly Hills urbanix mix instead.

this is a good point
weezer owes geffen one new album
right?
The should definately sign with Matador or Domino rec.
or another big Indie company after they fullfill their contract


Two albums, I think. Hopefully they stay together long enough to get out of their contract so we can hear some of this other stuff.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on February 26, 2006, 01:59:14 PM
The problem is that Rivers doesn't want to release any more new material than he has to to Geffen. He doesn't want them owning any more than they already do, so we're Island In The Sun live and the Beverly Hills urbanix mix instead.

this is a good point
weezer owes geffen one new album
right?
The should definately sign with Matador or Domino rec.
or another big Indie company after they fullfill their contract

Actually I don't really care about Weezer as a band, I would prefer Cuomo solo if that means
he will do songs like Longtime Sunshine and Private Message with Pinkerton production
alone in his bedroom with all the weird instruments he can find.


Two albums, I think. Hopefully they stay together long enough to get out of their contract so we can hear some of this other stuff.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on February 28, 2006, 01:35:52 PM
as if I could live on words and dreams and a million screams ohh how I need a hand in mine to feel

I'm no Emo kid, but that has feeling, that's emotion. That's 'how deep is the ocean?',
that's not: What's the deal with my brain, why am I so obviously insane?
It's a bad lyric and musically it doesn't even fit. Timbre-wise

as you know I'm quite familair with Weezer demo's and the early album 5 demos (who all got scrapped)
from 2002, show more emotion, clever music and lyrics than all the songs of Make Believe together.
Ever heard Lullaby? When I heard that, I thought that Weezer/Cuomo was on it's way back to Longtime Sunshine.
Foda Geffen, and let's hope Rivers will ever do this sort of stuff again (or release this)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on February 28, 2006, 01:37:13 PM
I want to make clear that the bad lyric was from Perfect Situation and not Across the Sea (one of the best Weezer songs)
Perfect Situation is decent, btw. Not good, though


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Daniel S. on March 04, 2006, 12:03:43 AM
I bought Pinkerton a few years ago, because I'd heard good things about it, gave it a listen and really didn't like it. Because of this board I have listened to it again, from start to finish, several times and I really can't get into it. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean anything, but I like to think I can appreciate if something is great even if its not my cup of tea. Pinkerton is just so by the numbers and generic. It sounds like whiny punk, the sort of thing you can get from Green Day or Blink 182 and other bands I hate. Sorry, I don't mean to rain on your parade.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on March 04, 2006, 09:10:22 AM
the lyrics are way better than Blink's
maybe even the Make Believe-era lyrics

As for Green Day, I think Rivers can write better and certainly play better.
But I get your point. It's still punkrock to some extend


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: jdavolt on March 04, 2006, 03:14:54 PM
Quote
the lyrics are way better than Blink's


So is the music.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Daniel S. on March 04, 2006, 03:34:54 PM
Weezer is definitely better than Blink 182. But I consider Blink 182 to be a complete embarrasment to rock music.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jonas on March 04, 2006, 03:59:08 PM
Weezer is definitely better than Blink 182. But I consider Blink 182 to be a complete embarrasment to rock music.

replace rock with punk...


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on March 05, 2006, 08:13:29 AM
What do you think is generic about Pinkerton?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Daniel S. on March 05, 2006, 12:55:11 PM
It just sounds like all the other 90's "college radio" , "indie rock" drivel.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on March 05, 2006, 01:07:41 PM
Quote
It just sounds like all the other 90's "college radio" , "indie rock" drivel.

In what respect?  You have to back up your claims. 


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Mitchell on March 05, 2006, 01:50:34 PM
I'm surprised that anyone can call Falling for You, Across the Sea, and Pink Triangle generic.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: jdavolt on March 05, 2006, 03:52:28 PM
Yeah, Heywood. I would suggest you go listen to "Across the Sea", but you're not worthy of it.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on March 05, 2006, 03:55:59 PM
No need to be mean.  Give him a chance to back up his assertions in no uncertain terms.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: jdavolt on March 05, 2006, 04:22:18 PM
Sorry Aeijtzsche.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Daniel S. on March 05, 2006, 04:36:09 PM
Maybe the personal nature of the lyrics, including the whole point of view of Rivers Cuomo, makes Pinkerton different. But judging the music by itself, it just sounds derivative. I'm not a musician and don't play an instrument so I can't discuss chord progressions, etc. Maybe the whole Rivers Cumo angle makes the album special to people. 

:deadhorse


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: jdavolt on March 05, 2006, 05:24:12 PM
oh no, there's a lot more stuff going on musically. Similar to 'Pet Sounds' with the various melodic segments, except where 'Pet Sounds' uses different instrumentation, 'Pinkerton' just plays these little bits and pieces on electric guitar. Listen to the little instrumental passage in "Across the Sea", just prior to the "at 12, I shaved my head and tried to be a monk" part, or all of "Falling For You", for an example of what I'm talking about.

Oh, and btw, "hate".


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Daniel S. on March 05, 2006, 06:01:13 PM
I'm gonna take it out and listen to it. Again. okay?  :wall


I think the Pet Sounds comparisons are what made me want to bash it, by the way. PS is my favorite.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on March 05, 2006, 06:05:36 PM
Yeah, "Rivers Cuomo" really means little to me when it comes to carefully articulated arrangements, seamless key changes, strategically used distortion and harmonics...none of which sound generic or derivative to me. But if you think it is derivative, please list other albums or songs that these come from..I'd love to listen to them.

Many great musical moments on Pinkerton, especially in the bridges. The ATS part mentioned earlier, the Good Life, Pink Triangle, Falling For You.....especially the counterpoint melody stuff.


No need to listen to it again though if you don't like it. I definitely don't want to sound preachy, and I don't think you should have to like something you don't want to like. PS is my fav and Pink is my second fav.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jonas on March 05, 2006, 06:09:11 PM
I love Pinkerton, I really do.

I just don't see how people can dig it more than the Blue Album.  :3d


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Mitchell on March 05, 2006, 06:22:20 PM
For me, it's a stronger album. I prefer the production and performance from an overall standpoint. I think half of Blue is great and half of it is merely good (I don't like Say It Ain't So or Only In Dreams as much as I should, so that plays into it, too). With Pinkerton, the whole thing is GOOD, and sometimes great. Blue may have more 'better' songs, but it also has more 'lesser' songs (for me).


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on March 05, 2006, 06:23:34 PM
For me, it's probably just the amount of emotional depth and honesty with Pinkerton, despite it's instant inaccessibility. I think that's very hard to achieve, and I dig that.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jonas on March 05, 2006, 06:34:25 PM
I think Pinkerton is wonderful, the music is great, the content is easy to relate to (heart break, cant get the love you want, etc) and the production is solid since it was done by the guys themselves.

But there is this aura that comes with the blue album. Its happy, its sad, it gets soft and mellow and then it rocks out. It hits every emotion in a span of 40 some minutes. I mean, once you put it on you get sucked in by that catchy intro melody of 'My Name is Jonas' and just grab you by the balls when they start rockin out. It slowly progresses with very melodic and heart setting songs to the euphoric climix of Undone and Surf Wax America. Then again it just progresses through all these emotions to the conclusion that is possibly the best 8 minute composition Ive ever heard in my life.

And Ric Ocasek did a ridiculously good job with the production. That album is so clean and crisp...it sounds great! I was listening to Buddy Holly the other day in really crappy car stereo speakers and yet you can still hear the multiple layers of music and vocals because it was so well done.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andy on March 05, 2006, 06:39:40 PM
Good production in a great studio. Weezer's almost always picked the best studios to work in.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on March 06, 2006, 12:40:40 PM
I can't choose between Pinkerton or Blue
from a pop-angle it's blue (I generally like the songs better)
from a emotional-angle it's pinkerton
production-wise I love both of them. Really do, it's the production that makes me hate the other 3 records.

after those 2 it's all downhile, besides some great demos and album tracks that didn't deserve to be on mediocre albums.

Weezer (Green) is lamely produced in the sense that the solo's are wrong and the songs are all the same, you get bored half way through. Maladriot had awful metal influence and the songs didn't fit. Make Believe has the bad lyrics.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on March 06, 2006, 01:46:24 PM
Quote
Weezer (Green) is lamely produced in the sense that the solo's are wrong and the songs are all the same, you get bored half way through

Well, I think a lot of the fanbase has come to agree that the songs themselves are not bad, but the fairly uniform production across the record does make them sound the same.  I think the songs actually are fairly different from each other, I mean, Hash Pipe is really quite a different song from Island in the Sun, but at times you can barely tell because the production just kind of got ramrodded through, to get the record done or something. 

Even more puzzling is the final song selection.  To me, the B-sides and rarities from the Green Era are in general much better than many of the album tracks.  Starlight has a fantastic, far-reaching melody, Brightening Day would have sounded unique on the final line-up, I Do and Always are, if nothing else, completely different sounding from anything from that era, and Teenage Victory Song and Sugar Booger are, uh, funner than much of the Album material.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jonas on March 06, 2006, 02:21:49 PM
I would like to listen to the b-sides during the Green album era. I thought the (Green) album was awful, it lost the charisma and 'lovin' feeling that I recieved from the first two albums. I probably dug a couple of songs at most.

Maladroit was a step to the right direction, but still missing the aura that was strongly felt before.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Mitchell on March 06, 2006, 08:27:19 PM
Check it out: http://www.weezernation.com/media/main.php?id=besides

I agree with Josh, except I'd say "more fun."


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on March 07, 2006, 06:36:25 AM
Quote
Weezer (Green) is lamely produced in the sense that the solo's are wrong and the songs are all the same, you get bored half way through

Well, I think a lot of the fanbase has come to agree that the songs themselves are not bad, but the fairly uniform production across the record does make them sound the same.  I think the songs actually are fairly different from each other, I mean, Hash Pipe is really quite a different song from Island in the Sun, but at times you can barely tell because the production just kind of got ramrodded through, to get the record done or something. 

Even more puzzling is the final song selection.  To me, the B-sides and rarities from the Green Era are in general much better than many of the album tracks.  Starlight has a fantastic, far-reaching melody, Brightening Day would have sounded unique on the final line-up, I Do and Always are, if nothing else, completely different sounding from anything from that era, and Teenage Victory Song and Sugar Booger are, uh, funner than much of the Album material.

yes indeed, that's my point too. I said the songs are all the same, but I know that's not true. They don't sound diverse, although Weezer songs are almost always based on the same blueprint, Green suffers the most of the formula. Bad final song selection, I think I said here that both Make Believe and Maladroit also have this problem.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Jonas on March 07, 2006, 06:56:46 AM
I have a copy of the unmastered version of Maladroit that comes with 20 some odd tracks. I created my own tracklisting of 10 songs out of that, and imo if they went with that selection I think the album wouldve definitely gone back to the right direction. The final tracklisting only had like 2 or 3 of the songs I picked.  :poke


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on March 08, 2006, 12:33:31 PM
www.weerez.com
under media you can find all the demos

so we could all make our own maladroit

(and a better one)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: PapaNez22 on March 14, 2006, 03:44:25 PM
Quote
I think his other big problem is that he somehow got the impression he should be idolizing Green Day and Oasis when they are at the most his peers and at the least his artistic inferiors.

I never really got that, either.  He went from copying some of his most imaginative peers (Flaming Lips, Nirvana, Blur) to copying some of his least imaginative.

what a crock that statement is.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on March 19, 2006, 02:20:07 PM
Did anyone of you ever listen to Grandaddy's Sophtware Slump? I think that record, again totally different instruments, sounds
a bit like Pinkerton and Pet Sounds and the lyrics show some resamblence too. The record is amazing I might add


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Mitchell on March 19, 2006, 06:45:18 PM
Can't say I have. Maybe I'll look into it.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on March 20, 2006, 12:31:46 PM
Can't say I have. Maybe I'll look into it.

you should, the record is about being homesick. Jason Lytle (leader of grandaddy) had a tough time being on the road
(like Brian did) and really missed home. The songs are about that, they have a beach boys vibe in melody only I think. But still, it reminds me of Pet Sounds and Pinkerton.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on March 20, 2006, 12:42:24 PM
Didn't Granddaddy just break up?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on March 21, 2006, 07:08:49 AM
yes, the will release one more album (which is already in the can)
the record I'm talking about his their sophmore album
You should really give it a spin (or download it and buy it afterwards)
mark my words it's good!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: The Trader on June 14, 2006, 09:14:48 PM
Here some Q&A's with rivers from his myspace:


*all of rivers comments are glowing*


What do you say to those people (fans) who say they want another Pinkerton?
---Michael Silvers

I cant control what I write. I have to accept whatever comes. If its not what someone wants to hear, then at least they can agree with me to love Pinkerton and part as friends.  

Rivers, unlike Green, Make Believe, Maladroit, and even the Blue Album, Pinkerton is a reflection of you. Why are you holding back with your music and your emotions?
---Eric

On each of those albums I just wrote what I thought sounded cool. I guess my sense of cool changed from album to ablum.  

You were interviewed for the May 25th, 2001 issue of Entertainment Weekly in an article titled "Older & Weezer." On the topic of your sophomore album 'Pinkerton', you were you were quoted as saying:
"Everyone thought it was"--he pauses, letting the thought hang--"an embarrassment. One of the worst albums of all time."..."It's a hideous record," Cuomo says. "It was such a hugely painful mistake that happened in front of hundreds of thousands of people and continues to happen on a grander and grander scale and just won't go away."..."The fans have given us this miraculous career, and it's all because of Pinkerton. That's all they want, that's all they care about. It's so frustrating, because I don't want to turn my back on them, but I sure as hell don't want to do Pinkerton. I have to face the fact that I'm going to completely p--- off all these fans who have been so good to us over the past few years."
And in 2005 Spin Magazine listed 'Pinkerton' #61 on their list of the 100 Best Albums from 1985-2005. (None of the other Weezer albums made this list.)
Rolling Stone who named 'Pinkerton' the second worst album of the year in 1996, in 2004 an article changed its status to a 5-star rating and inducted it into The Rolling Stone Hall Of Fame. This article can be found in the Reviews sections of the 500 Greatest Songs Of All Time issue.
Why do[/did] you hate so much what is now being argued as some of your best work and perhaps your best album?
---John

I was embarrassed because I made a very ego-centric album that was almost universally loathed.  

What is your CURRENT opinion of each of weezer's past albums?
---me
Greenwich, CT

Theyre all great!  




Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Ron on June 15, 2006, 06:15:50 AM
Why is it that genius always has to be so fleeting?  LOL 


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: andrew k on June 16, 2006, 07:00:15 AM
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513079

this by the way is a pretty fascinating recent interview with Rivers, the harvard student.  there is some very recent relections on pinkerton in there you should peep.  this article seems to have changed fromthe first time i read it, in that its missing some very funny photos of Rivers in his normal looking dorm room - where he chooses to live.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on October 20, 2007, 11:03:09 AM
http://www.weezer.com/default.asp

Seems like a part of Songs from the Black Hole will be released!

I'm super excited about this, praying that Longtime Sunshine (one of Rivers' best songs) will be on it!

btw

new Weezer album in spring? Hope it will be better than the last 3!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: CosmicDancer on October 21, 2007, 04:15:08 PM
I will agree that the last TWO Weezer albums have been big loads of crap, but I actually really enjoyed the green album.  Sure it didn't have the emotional depth of Pinkerton, but I think it is a very fine power pop album with great melodies.  I just wish it would have been longer.  I remember buying it the day it was released and being really pissed at paying full price for a 29 min. album!


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Ptolemaios on October 31, 2007, 06:51:48 PM
What did you people think about the new  song "Pig"? In case you haven't heard it, it was a Rivers home demo that got out in to the web some time ago.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on April 16, 2008, 06:40:11 AM
newest weezer song, it's pretty great:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/tdilcq


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: BiNNS on April 16, 2008, 09:38:51 AM
Nice little quirky song. i'm pretty excited for their new cd. i grew up on the Blue album and Pinkerton, but i still love their later albums. i guess that makes me an oddity. also, is it true that this album is going to be their "red" album?


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Alex on April 18, 2008, 09:26:38 AM
Hopefully they don't just keep following the formula like they have with every album since Pinkerton.


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Billgoodman on April 22, 2008, 01:29:46 AM
red indeed

see this:

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/page/news/50108-is-this-really-the-new-weezer-album-cover

this is so beach boys  friends-era


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: BiNNS on April 22, 2008, 10:20:56 AM
Oh dear:)


Title: Re: Weezers Pinkerton
Post by: Alex on April 23, 2008, 04:58:07 AM
red indeed

see this:

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/page/news/50108-is-this-really-the-new-weezer-album-cover

this is so beach boys  friends-era
WTF???!!!