Weezers Pinkerton

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

I'm starting to get hooked.

[Beckner]

Awesome Steve!

[Jonas]

ahh Weezer...

Blue Album - The Pinnacle. Brilliance at its finest.
Pinkerton - Ahead of its time. The one that 'got away.'
-The end of Weezer after Matt Sharp's departure-
Green Album - Garbage.
Maladroit - Listenable, still not the sound.
Make Believe - a little better, but still not what I want.

the day river and matt start writing music together with the rest of the band is teh day Weezer becomes =w= again, sadly that day will never come.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

the day river and matt start writing music together with the rest of the band is teh day Weezer becomes =w= again, sadly that day will never come.

But Matt didn't write much.  His presence was a positive, but his actual musical contributions are minimal, especially on the Blue Album.  Weezer has always been Rivers' band and the onus will always be on him.

[andy]

Yep.

And Matt/Rivers did start writing together again, for a two or three month period starting 2/04. It wasn't super, but it was neat.

[DavidLeeRoth]

Matt and Rivers wrote "Time Song" which I used to have a little clip of the two of them performing it together.  The part that Rivers sang took my breath away.  I think just being around Matt influenced Rivers writing.  Matt's Rentals songs (first album especiailly) are pretty good actually.  I never really got into his solo album.  What I heard was far from impressive. 

I still enjoy the hell out of Make Believe.  When will the Weezer hating end?

DLR

[Beckner]

I never really got into his solo album.  What I heard was far from impressive.

It stinks.

[Mitchell]

I still enjoy the hell out of Make Believe.  When will the Weezer hating end?

When Rivers releases the rest of the SFTBH demos.

Then it will start again.

[I. Spaceman]

When will the Weezer hating end?

When they get different fans, instead of a hateful load of snot-nosed and snide creeps.
(except for the Weezer fans here, of course)

[andy]

Ian, can it be weezerfan hating instead of weezer hating?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

When they get different fans, instead of a hateful load of snot-nosed and snide creeps.

It's a very strange fanbase.  I'm not aware of another fanbase that draws such extreme opposite cliques.  There's an extremely intellectual sect, and there's a, uh, extremely not intellectual sect.  And of course, all kinds of things in between.

But Ian, don't you think there might be something to the fact that so many Weezer fans have turned on the band?  I'm not too confident in the public at large, but so many people that were fans in 1994 are not fans now, and it's not just a matter of not being a fan anymore it's, as you say, hateful at times.  I try not to be hateful, but at times I do feel betrayed.  Selfishly, of course, but it's shocking how the same group could produce an album or so that move me to the fullest extent I can be moved...and years later leave me with such a profound, sad, empty feeling.  It'd be like a Coke addict snorting enough angel dust to paralyze a sperm whale and getting no buzz (or whatever one gets when one snorts Coke.) 

[Beckner]

It has to do with the time spent away, 1996- 2000. In those intervening years, I grew up. I graduated high school, et cetera, fell for girls, etc, all to the tune of Blue and Pinkerton. Meanwhile I was still waiting on Weezer to go with me. When they finally returned I wanted the Weezer of my youth. They lost a lot being away.

I think a lot of it is what the preconcieved notion of what weezer should sound like. And honestly, they are still defining that.

[Jason]

When they get different fans, instead of a hateful load of snot-nosed and snide creeps.

A lot of fans, not just Weezer fans, could take that advice. Basically, if you're a band whose fanbase consists mostly of people from ages 14-22. Bands like Nine Inch Nails and Nirvana and Led Zeppelin.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I think a lot of it is what the preconcieved notion of what weezer should sound like. And honestly, they are still defining that.

I think Weezer themselves has a preconcieved notion of what they "should" sound like.  Which is why I believe I don't get anything from their last two albums.  Rivers was taking the band in a direction up through the hiatus.  We were starting to hear interesting compositional devices, clever key changes, some color instruments in with the classic Weezer guitar sound.  Glockenspiels, heavy synth stuff...which at times was used for comedic effect.  There were dynamics, C sections to songs.

Then all of a sudden, Rivers strips it back to the AABABA song form with two guitars, bass, and drums.  Which was fine for the Green album.  It worked from a commercial standpoint and was probably important.  The melodies on that album were good enough that it was solid musically.

Even though I don't like Maladroit at all, looking back now, I at least appreciate how it stands out from a certain standpoint.  It was terrible musically, almost amelodic at times...but whatever nice moments there were on the album (and there are some) were steamrolled by thoughtless prolificness.

Then this last record is even more simple in the bad sense.  Each song retains the same dynamic throughout (partly because of production but partly because of the songwriting), is just ABABA, and the arrangements seem so thoughtless to me.

Ultimately, of course, it is completely subjective.  But this is how I feel...  I know what my desires are don't match the record-buying populus' vast taste pool.  I like complexity in some form, and Weezer has been getting less and less complex.  There are no layers to parse, if you will.  There's nothing left to reveal itself to you after one listen.

[Beckner]

See but I like Maladroit for the exact opposite reason. In the same way that I like bad comics and bad movies, I love the absurdity of "Maladroit." It's closer to "Pinkerton" than "Green" or "Make Believe" are, for sure. I love the dive bomb solos, the insane riffing, the overall tone. The only track I don't like is "Possibilities" since that one sounds like dialed in Cali pop punk.

I wrote a thing about Maladroit on my xanga a ways back. Ill look for it.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I love the dive bomb solos

If I wanted to hear people mindlessly playing fast pentatonic scales, I'd go to guitar center.

[Jason]

If I wanted to hear people mindlessly playing fast pentatonic scales, I'd go to guitar center.

Or you could listen to a Van Halen record.

[andy]

I love the dive bomb solos

If I wanted to hear people mindlessly playing fast pentatonic scales, I'd go to guitar center.

Haha, that's why I don't like going. If Rivers were in there 'shredding' it'd be a different story.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Yeah, if Rivers were actually Shredding at a guitar center, or on record, I'd want to hear it.  He was a really, really good guitarist in the 80s.  I'm sure it's still there somewhere.  Some of the Avant Garde and Zoom solos are really close to being top-level jazz fusion difficulty.

[mike8902]

After Pinkerton it seems to me that each album had a couple of songs that would blow me away, and the rest of the songs are filler. I'm really a sucker for Island in the Sun and Glorious Day on the Green Album. Burnt Jamb(I think the best post-pinkerton song) and Dope Nose on Maladroit. And I think Make Believe is unlistenable.

I'll always give them a chance though just because how brilliant the Blue album and Pinkerton are.

[Beckner]

From my xanga:

Monday, November 10, 2003

   
   Currently Playing
Maladroit
By Weezer
see related

Yes i know Im listening to the "crappy" weezer album. Granted, it's full of two hand tapping, pick slides, and other ill guitar histrionics. It sounds like Edward Van Halen guests on half the tracks and like Mutt Lange produced. But it is brilliant. Put yourself in River's shoes. (I doubt any of us would fit but...) Your band has been away for five years, you release an album that sells insane copies to too many 12 year olds (green album), and that you yourself admits was an attempt to write songs that had little lyrical meaning but great melodies like early Beatles sides. To purge yourself of all these lame new fans who spend all their time nitpicking you online, you record an album for yourself, one that you like but know wont be loved by the fans. Its no Pinkerton. Its an ironic attempt to be "significantly more like Judas priest..."

None of us are 12 years old. Get to listening and comprehending. Album5 is on the way with Rick Rubin producing. Rivers says he's gonna rap. (and considering he guested on the crazytown album and co wrote Cold's "stupid girl" its likely) And as always we will all get pissed and disown Weezer for a month or two. get used to it.

Two years on and one more album later, I stand by this post.

[Billgoodman]

Wow
great topic

Pinkerton is simply the best Weezer record for me
it's in the production and in the cleverness of the songs
Take the solo's for instance, lot's of Pinkerton songs have solo's over a new chordpattern
instead of the chorus or verse. But it still sounds very cohesive

Now for what happened after Pinkerton

I liked Green and Maladroit when they came out
Make Believe
well the music is sometimes ok (This is Such A pity has a nice vibe, Perfect Situation is good)
but the lyrics are horrible

If only Rivers could see that his songs like Longtime Sunshine are his best
and that he's better of making 8 track demos than fronting a group who's playing Beverly Hills.
BTW, what's wrong with people? Green and Make Believe were massive hits, but are their weakest albums.

How can 'Beverly Hills' and 'We are all on drugs' be hits, I think 'Keep Fishin' or 'Dope Nose' were
better songs particulary from a commercial point. Songs that are poppy but also clever, with nice
videos. Better videos than those Make Believe. I don't want to judge music by it's video, but
I want to make it clear that the videos for Keep Fishin and Dope Nose weren't bad, but equally if not better.
(I mean a muppet video, with a funny story, how cool is that?) 

another point:
maladroit, I'm sure Rivers had a good thing going there, but the album that came out:
man, talk about songs that don't fit together. I like Keep fishin, Dope Nose, Burndt Jamb, December, Space Jam
(BB's metal anybody?), Death and Destruction, Slob, Fall Together. Take Control and Slave are decent. The rest, mediocre if you ask me. But that's still a nice score!
Besides there were lot's of great songs demo'ed in that era and the months after Maladroit's arrival. They picked the wrong songs for inclusion.

[Jason]

Post more.

[Billgoodman]

are you asking me to post more?
That's actually pretty funny

that can mean two things:
1 you like my last post and think I should write more on this subject and others
2 you like it a bit, but you don't want to take it serious since it is only my 17th post on this forum.

Either/Or (great album I had to say it) it's very funny.

I have lot's of thoughts on Weezer/Cuomo but I never really wrote them down. My last post
wasn't very constructed. But that's my lazy internet style. An Essay on Cuomo, now that would be something.
Some of you think SFTBH is his SMiLE don't you? I've been to those sites million times, liked what you said.
 

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

you record an album for yourself, one that you like but know wont be loved by the fans.

But Rivers has started to let it out that at times he absolutely hated what he was recording during that time.