Weezers Pinkerton

[I. Spaceman]

We've been talking more about our personalities than Rivers'.

Speak for yourself: If you re-read my posts, they're all about what an asshole Beckner is.  

AHHH!
This makes sense now:

Because excess isn't a virtue

[Chris D.]

We've been talking more about our personalities than Rivers'.

And that's what REAL music criticism is.

Haha

[Boxer Monkey]

(Beckner: You know I don't really think you're an asshole, right? That was said strictly in the interest of bad taste.)

[Beckner]

You know it. I was chatting on AIM the other night with the girl I currently... (don't even have the right word) "work" with, and I told her my tombstone should say "Dave Beckner, Sensitive Asshole." It was a joke but I think it's true.

You know, in the first pages of this thread, I pretty much laid it all out. "Pinkerton" is a heavy trip for me musically-- there's a rich tapestry of love and failure imbedded into those songs for me, each song's words overlayed with darker personal memories of love and life lost. This past year has been by and large "The Good Life" all in all-- I'm on my own finally and yet I sit in my basement most nights chatting up electronic pals. Who's fault is that?  Mine all mine-- A few months ago, at a trendy Baltimore dance club that I was dragged to, the djs cued up "The Good Life" and suddenly the song was the moment as I felt as one with the rest of the cavorting masses.

(Beckner: You know I don't really think you're an asshole, right? That was said strictly in the interest of bad taste.)

No I was writing the above. I know I am an asshole. Only an asshole buys the VU boxset and hates it.

[andy]

Discussing music is so fodaing stupid.  Know why?  Because it's never about music.  foda all of you.  Seriously.

Because people can't stick to music, that's why. I've seen it on every freaking message board. You get to a certain level of reasoning and there is that one stock answer that's brought up everywhere. And then it's all backwards from there. And people ask why there needs to be progression. How fitting. Really! ::shakes head::


Don't get all pissy when someone requests, on a musical discussion topic/thread, to talk about music! Jesus.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

OK, I was going to go to bed and not come back to the board for a couple weeks, but i felt so bad I knew i couldn't sleep on it.  I'm sorry for letting my temper get the best of me.

This is how I feel.  I started giving my opinions, writing how I feel about cetain things.  Then Boxer Monkey started insulting me.   I don't know if he was serious or not.  But things like this:

I think most of the "fans" who reject more current Weezer music are emotionally retarded

That way they can all shut the foda up and realize what useless tools most of them are

But for such a seemingly articulate person to espouse the hackneyed party line on Weezer -- or *ANY*thing, for that matter -- is deeply tedious for me. It's like the people who you think would know better but don't are much more frustrating to deal with than the fodaing rubes for whom you have no expectations.

Gawd, I *CANNOT TAKE* such narrow-minded, "canonical" horsemerda!

Must you have EVERYthing **EXPLAINED** to you?

stuff that's not about the topic, but instead about my negative qualities, well, it starts to add up and make me feel very bad.  I didn't call anybody emotionally retarded or narrow-minded.  I'm asking the questions I'm asking because I really want to know where other people are coming from, and I can't do that with so much sarcasm.  Maybe I do need to leave the board.  I can't tell when people are serious and when they're not.  If this was all in fun, then I'm sorry I got so emotional.  I mean, I was almost crying because of this!  We'll call it my princessy/diva moment of the month, I guess.  It's dumb, yes, but I don't remember asking for so much.

Are you guys so angry at me, or whatever it is you are at me because you feel incapable of describing music?  I don't understand, it doesn't take a degree in theory to discuss music.

If I were you, here would be my response to myself.

Instrumentation

Green Album:  Guitars panned hard left and right playing power chords throughout (except Island), bass, drums, vocal harmony at the third.

Maladroit:  Guitars panned hard left and right playing power chords throughout (except Burdnt Jamb), bass, drums, vocal harmony at the third.

Make Believe:  Guitars panned hard left and right playing power chords throughout (except for Perfect Situation initially and HYED where there's some tantalizingly inconsequential piano), bass, drums, vocal harmony at the third.

Songs

Green:  ABABABA
Maladroit:  ABABABA
Make Believe: ABABABA

Yeah, but that's kind of oversimplifying things, isn't it?  Yes all three albums have the same basic instrumentation, but it's not used the same way.  For example, the style of the guitars on Green is almost a backdrop wall of sound that the vocal floats on, but on Maladroit the guitars are more upfront to spar with the vocals.  Plus, on Maladroit the guitars are much more rhythmically varied.  it's still distorted power chords, but playing a lot of moving riffs makes for a very different listen from Green.  

The drums on green and Maladroit are miles apart.  There's a lot of different sounds on Maladroit, from the open sounds to some of the stranger sounds they got recording in the little booth at Capitol.  The drums on Make Believe are a little generic, but they do sound a little more open and less compressed than on the last two records, and I think that enhances Pat's playing.

END

Then I (aeijtzsche) would respond to that something like this:

You make some good points, but to me, the stylistic stuff is fine, and yeah, it's fun to hear some riffage every now and again, but the thing that really bothers me about it isn't so much the result as the approach.  It just doesn't seem to occur to them that they have other options besides the standard two guitar/bass/drums approach.

and so on...



I'd just like to say once more that I'm sorry for getting angry.  It wasn't out of any dislike for any of you, it was just some kind of weird cyber pain defense.  Please forgive the outburst and continue to think of me as you did before that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

[Beckner]

"I should have no feeling, 'cause feeling is pain."

[I. Spaceman]

No problem, Aeij.
We all tend to think of music in more abstract and symbological terms than you do. It's just more a mismatch conversationally than anything else.
Don't take it all so seriously and don't feel bad for taking it seriously.

[Boxer Monkey]

This is how I feel.  I started giving my opinions, writing how I feel about cetain things.  Then Boxer Monkey started insulting me.   I don't know if he was serious or not.  But things like this:

I think most of the "fans" who reject more current Weezer music are emotionally retarded

That way they can all shut the foda up and realize what useless tools most of them are

But for such a seemingly articulate person to espouse the hackneyed party line on Weezer -- or *ANY*thing, for that matter -- is deeply tedious for me. It's like the people who you think would know better but don't are much more frustrating to deal with than the fodaing rubes for whom you have no expectations.

Gawd, I *CANNOT TAKE* such narrow-minded, "canonical" horsemerda!

Must you have EVERYthing **EXPLAINED** to you?

                                                                                                   

Yeah. I'm sure this is all my fault ...

[I. Spaceman]

It's years of frustration towards Weezer fan mentality. It's got to be taken out on somebody! 

[andy]

If you could just stick up for your bold claim, none of this would've happened. There was NO need to get defensive, man.


If you say Make Believe is a progression, back it up. If you can't, walk away.

[andy]

It's years of frustration towards Weezer fan mentality. It's got to be taken out on somebody! 

Sorry Ian, but it's never justified to flat out call someone emotionally retarded, joke or not, ESPECIALLY when you don't know how the other person is going to take it.

[Boxer Monkey]

Yeah, but if I just said, "f*** you all! Seriously," then everybody would just kiss my ass and I wouldn't have to prove anything!

f*** you all! Seriously!

[I. Spaceman]

Weezer still essentially makes "Weezer music," but it's more streamlined in pure feeling, which is just part of getting older.

You CAN'T WRITE LYRICS OUT OF THE EQUATION.

[I. Spaceman]

It's years of frustration towards Weezer fan mentality. It's got to be taken out on somebody! 

Sorry Ian, but it's never justified to flat out call someone emotionally retarded, joke or not, ESPECIALLY when you don't know how the other person is going to take it.

He didn't say Josh was. He said most Weezer fans are. That's true. And I think most would admit to it.

[Boxer Monkey]

It's years of frustration towards Weezer fan mentality. It's got to be taken out on somebody! 

Sorry Ian, but it's never justified to flat out call someone emotionally retarded, joke or not, ESPECIALLY when you don't know how the other person is going to take it.

Re-read my post: I was referring to a specific kind of Weezer fan, not any one person here. But if the shoe fits ...

Anyway, I'm done here.

f*** you all! Seriously!

[andy]

Yeah, but if I just said, "foda you all! Seriously," then everybody would just kiss my ass and I wouldn't have to prove anything!

foda you all! Seriously!

No, that wasn't right either. And he apologized.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Yeah. I'm sure this is all my fault ...

I don't believe anybody is "at fault."  You words hurt, but I'm sure I've said some hurtful things to you at some point, so it's all even in the end.

Ian, was my rebuttal to myself really that outside the way an "abstract/symbolic" thinker thinks?

[andy]

You're right, guys. You didn't specifically refer to anyone, but knowing that you're posting in a WEEZER thread with WEEZER fans in it, it MIGHT be taken personally. And he told you he did, so why the pride now?

[I. Spaceman]

You're right, guys. You didn't specifically refer to anyone, but knowing that you're posting in a WEEZER thread with WEEZER fans in it, it MIGHT be taken personally. And he told you he did, so why the pride now?

But Boxer is a Weezer fan too. I like em too. No one is separating themselves.
It's the whole Weezer situation that that kind of talk would even be taken seriously.
You think Who fans would get their feelings hurt by a general statement? Stones fans?

[andy]

Human beings? merda, we're all people. Yeah, I can see how a weezer fan might be stereotyped as more sensitive.

But dude, we're on a musical message board. Some people obviously care a lot about music and take it very seriously. Some people don't joke, some people aren't very good at reading whether or not someone else is joking, and some people do.

[I. Spaceman]

Yeah. I'm sure this is all my fault ...

I don't believe anybody is "at fault."  You words hurt, but I'm sure I've said some hurtful things to you at some point, so it's all even in the end.

Ian, was my rebuttal to myself really that outside the way an "abstract/symbolic" thinker thinks?

It was pretty cold and literalist to me, but I think about music in a completely different way. But that's cool. You're a historian/musical theorist.
I'm a critic.

[I. Spaceman]

Human beings? merda, we're all people.

Let's put it this way. I'll do an experiment.
I'll say that most fans of another artist are emotionally retarded and see if I get a similar response.
Weezer fans are an ODD LOT! That's all I am saying, and I have had problems relating to them.
But the MUSIC is cool. And that's what it should be about, as you guys said.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I'm sorry for letting my feelings get hurt.  I'll try to be more macho like a Stones fan next time.

It was pretty cold and literalist to me, but I think about music in a completely different way. But that's cool. You're a historian/musical theorist.
I'm a critic.

Guitar sounds are cold and literalist?  You have to make me understand how you think.  That's why I'm discussing music on a music board, to learn how other people think.  New perspective.

[andy]

You're right. It should be about the music. Sorry to digress.