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Author Topic: BWPS - The Final Verdict  (Read 33545 times)
OneEar/OneEye
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« Reply #200 on: February 18, 2010, 10:41:04 AM »

I don't see his comment about "Smile seeming smaller" as being about the length of the album though.   I think he was speaking in more of a metaphorical sense.
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« Reply #201 on: February 18, 2010, 12:19:02 PM »

Remember that Van Dyke was out of the project before Brian started recording 'Fire' and some other mateiral. But he would have heard what went before it. Given all the fragments and sequences he might have heard, its credible that his recollection might have been of a longer album. He was also aware that there was music recorded after he left the process.

Van Dyke wasn't out of the project until early 1967. Fire was recorded in November '66, and it was in December when the infamous 'Mike asked VDP about his lyrics' episode took place.
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Mike's Beard
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« Reply #202 on: February 18, 2010, 12:20:26 PM »

Didn't he quit  for a while only to return later?
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« Reply #203 on: February 18, 2010, 12:32:29 PM »

Didn't he quit  for a while only to return later?

Both times were in early 1967. If he really did quit 2 times, I think there's some doubt as to whether he actually quit the project twice. Maybe AGD or another of the fellas on here that are more schooled in BB-ology could shed some light on this.
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« Reply #204 on: February 18, 2010, 12:37:39 PM »

"like a small collection of finely engraved postage stamps, for intimate viewing. "

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Mike's Beard
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« Reply #205 on: February 18, 2010, 12:49:16 PM »

I greatly admire VDP but man does he talk some gobble-de-gook at times or what?
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« Reply #206 on: February 18, 2010, 01:09:20 PM »

I greatly admire VDP but man does he talk some gobble-de-gook at times or what?

He does have a unique way about him. Without it, though, we wouldn't have those lyrical passages like 'Once Upon The Sandwich Islands/The Social Structure Steamed Upon Hawaii'.
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Mike's Beard
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« Reply #207 on: February 18, 2010, 01:18:48 PM »

I just got his "Song Cycle" CD on tuesday. Words can't describe it. Gonna be playing that one to death me's think.

P.S.  This may make me sound as stubbon as a mule but now having heard it, I point blank refuse to believe that he played zero part in composing the music to Smile.
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #208 on: February 19, 2010, 02:14:43 AM »

I just got his "Song Cycle" CD on tuesday. Words can't describe it. Gonna be playing that one to death me's think.

P.S.  This may make me sound as stubbon as a mule but now having heard it, I point blank refuse to believe that he played zero part in composing the music to Smile.

Now there's a thought. I must confess, here and now, and for the first time, that I always was of the very same opinion. How and when I do not know. The musical leap from Pet Sounds to Smile is enormous. For these amateur ears, it is pretty inconceivable that Brian changed his compositional talents in such a way. Mind: I do not belittle Brian's capacities one iota here. But since I know Song Cycle for 35 years now, and Pet Sounds/Smile material for 36, I have a more than a hunch indeed that Parks 'helped and supported, mediated, enabled' Brian with the music for Smile also, besides the words.
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« Reply #209 on: February 19, 2010, 04:44:47 AM »

I just got his "Song Cycle" CD on tuesday. Words can't describe it. Gonna be playing that one to death me's think.

P.S.  This may make me sound as stubbon as a mule but now having heard it, I point blank refuse to believe that he played zero part in composing the music to Smile.

Now there's a thought. I must confess, here and now, and for the first time, that I always was of the very same opinion. How and when I do not know. The musical leap from Pet Sounds to Smile is enormous. For these amateur ears, it is pretty inconceivable that Brian changed his compositional talents in such a way. Mind: I do not belittle Brian's capacities one iota here. But since I know Song Cycle for 35 years now, and Pet Sounds/Smile material for 36, I have a more than a hunch indeed that Parks 'helped and supported, mediated, enabled' Brian with the music for Smile also, besides the words.

VanDyke has indicated that although he didn't help Brian with the lyrics to Good Vibrations, that he did suggest using a cello. If true, that would be a good start.
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #210 on: February 19, 2010, 04:55:35 AM »

I just got his "Song Cycle" CD on tuesday. Words can't describe it. Gonna be playing that one to death me's think.

P.S.  This may make me sound as stubbon as a mule but now having heard it, I point blank refuse to believe that he played zero part in composing the music to Smile.

Now there's a thought. I must confess, here and now, and for the first time, that I always was of the very same opinion. How and when I do not know. The musical leap from Pet Sounds to Smile is enormous. For these amateur ears, it is pretty inconceivable that Brian changed his compositional talents in such a way. Mind: I do not belittle Brian's capacities one iota here. But since I know Song Cycle for 35 years now, and Pet Sounds/Smile material for 36, I have a more than a hunch indeed that Parks 'helped and supported, mediated, enabled' Brian with the music for Smile also, besides the words.

VanDyke has indicated that although he didn't help Brian with the lyrics to Good Vibrations, that he did suggest using a cello. If true, that would be a good start.

Good call. Oh how I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall, there and then, when these two gentle giants were playing ping pong with all those grand and tiny ideas for the new album... it's my ultimate musical fantasy, in fact. Van Dyke may have played the odd piano suggestion to Brian, or on any of the other instruments he plays, or hummed various suggestions for a new melody line, a connection between different songs, God knows what.

He should have overseen the sessions for 'Rio Grande'. Yes, he should.
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« Reply #211 on: February 19, 2010, 07:11:25 AM »

There's no question that Van was a massive, massive influence on the whole vibe, feel, aesthetic of SMiLE.  No question.  From the whole romantic sweep of the project -- to its "intimate viewing" of antique details.  Total Van Dyke.  But of course it was all influencing Brian and I imagine it was there for Brian's ferocious appetite to feed on.  Just like all them mystical books and such.
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« Reply #212 on: February 19, 2010, 10:15:47 AM »

I just got his "Song Cycle" CD on tuesday. Words can't describe it. Gonna be playing that one to death me's think.

P.S.  This may make me sound as stubbon as a mule but now having heard it, I point blank refuse to believe that he played zero part in composing the music to Smile.

Now there's a thought. I must confess, here and now, and for the first time, that I always was of the very same opinion. How and when I do not know. The musical leap from Pet Sounds to Smile is enormous. For these amateur ears, it is pretty inconceivable that Brian changed his compositional talents in such a way. Mind: I do not belittle Brian's capacities one iota here. But since I know Song Cycle for 35 years now, and Pet Sounds/Smile material for 36, I have a more than a hunch indeed that Parks 'helped and supported, mediated, enabled' Brian with the music for Smile also, besides the words.

I find the biggest leap is that for all it's lush production and arrangements most of the songs on PS at their heart still carry a "Top 40" ring to them. It's easy to imagine 70% or so of the material making for good singles.  Smile just doesn't have that, it's a very different beast. As VDP clearly doesn't care about material being radio friendly or not I think he played no small part in making Bri think even more "outside the box" than before.
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« Reply #213 on: February 19, 2010, 11:48:15 AM »

I greatly admire VDP but man does he talk some gobble-de-gook at times or what?

Mike? Is that you?


VanDyke has indicated that although he didn't help Brian with the lyrics to Good Vibrations, that he did suggest using a cello. If true, that would be a good start.

Wasn't that Carl who suggested the cello?
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« Reply #214 on: February 19, 2010, 11:53:04 AM »


Wasn't that Carl who suggested the cello?

Dunno.

I've read or heard VDP say it directly. Not sure if Carl had also made that claim.
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« Reply #215 on: February 19, 2010, 12:00:43 PM »

And remember, Van Dyke played on a few SMiLE sessions. That doesn't necessarily mean that he did anything more than play what Brian told him, but I would think he at least made a few musical suggestions.
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« Reply #216 on: February 19, 2010, 12:44:07 PM »

Didn't he quit  for a while only to return later?

Both times were in early 1967. If he really did quit 2 times, I think there's some doubt as to whether he actually quit the project twice. Maybe AGD or another of the fellas on here that are more schooled in BB-ology could shed some light on this.

Paging Cam Mott... call for Mr. Mott !!!
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« Reply #217 on: February 19, 2010, 02:12:17 PM »

I don't really know, it depends how they looked at it.  It seems to me that when VDP talks about it: he quit once or did he finish his job [which isn't really "quit"ting] and quit coming around the work place? Siegel said VDP quit and came back, so I'm not sure what sense he means that in. It seems to me that VDP associates his non-association with the project with the time of the lawsuit but he also says something about distancing himself from the work around the time of Fire or something. Maybe I remember wrong.
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« Reply #218 on: February 19, 2010, 02:22:46 PM »

This is hauling stuff up from the abyssal depths of my memory, but my recall is that VDP quit for two weeks, then returned, and finally took up the offer of a solo contract from Warner's. I guess the latter looked a better bet than Smile ever coming out. Good call, as it turns out.
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« Reply #219 on: February 19, 2010, 08:40:57 PM »

What I think I remember about VDP's involvement with Good Vibrations is not that he suggested the cello but rather suggested that it be played in 'triplets'.
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« Reply #220 on: February 19, 2010, 10:06:52 PM »

What I think I remember about VDP's involvement with Good Vibrations is not that he suggested the cello but rather suggested that it be played in 'triplets'.

This is a quote from Van Dyke:
"Well, many years ago, I suggested to Brian Wilson that he put a cello on 'Good Vibrations.' He did, and it became a signature sound of that song. I also suggested the triplet fundamentals in the music."
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« Reply #221 on: February 20, 2010, 02:06:48 AM »

I don't really know, it depends how they looked at it.  It seems to me that when VDP talks about it: he quit once or did he finish his job [which isn't really "quit"ting] and quit coming around the work place? Siegel said VDP quit and came back, so I'm not sure what sense he means that in. It seems to me that VDP associates his non-association with the project with the time of the lawsuit but he also says something about distancing himself from the work around the time of Fire or something. Maybe I remember wrong.

I think that he didn't quit around fire, but just didn't come down to that session. At least that's what I got out of it.
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