RIP J.D. Salinger

[Jason]

Died yesterday at age 91. A huge loss.

[the captain]

If it's a huge loss, it's mostly an abstract one. The Salinger that affects most of us--that is, his writing--is half a century old. We won't miss his interviews, his talk show appearances, his new work, because he wasn't giving us any of that. We didn't know him, because he wouldn't let us. The part we knew and know, we can still have. And most likely, we'll get to know significantly more in the coming years than we would have if he were still alive. The loss is abstract: it's the sadness that a person we had some odd connection with (despite not knowing) died. So we feel loss. In practical terms, we gain from it. (Yes, this sounds like assholeishness. I apologize, as I can honestly say hearing this today saddened me more than all but a few deaths I've ever learned of, including relatives.)

[Sheriff John Stone]

...I can honestly say hearing this today saddened me more than all but a few deaths I've ever learned of, including relatives.)

That's interesting...

[Jason]

Are you drunk, Luth?

[the captain]

No, why?

[hypehat]

I can see where Luther is coming from. I was more saddened to hear of, say, Hunter S. Thompson's death, a man who has had a very positive influence on me with his writing, than my grandfather's, who was never very nice to me and especially not to my mother. I would feel the same about some other people, be they writers, directors or musicians. I value Salinger's and Thompson's effect on my life more than his. It's undoubtedly unpleasant to say such things about family, but not every family is perfect.

I am wondering if, like with Thompson, we'll see a rush of posthumous material from Salinger. That might fill the gap Luther was talking about, although not quite in the same way.

[the captain]

I ought to say, I'm not saying I haven't cared when relatives have died. And while I've now lost all four grandparents, I've never lost a parent or sibling (though it has been close on both). But there is a different emotional rush from losing someone who was a real intellectual/philosophical inspiration at one point in life--but whom you've never met and thus think of only as a living force--than watching someone age, get sick, and die in the natural course. As for the posthumous possibilities, I'm sure it will happen eventually, but the legal squabbles will probably prevent it for a long while. He may well have tried to prevent such releases; his estate will probably want to profit from them. So we'll see, but probably not for a while.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Well, yeah, hypehat and Luther, I understand exactly what you are saying. I venture to say most people are like that, including some on this very message board regarding the passings of Dennis and Carl. I posted "That's interesting" because I had no idea Salinger was ONE OF THOSE INSPIRATIONS to Luther.

[the captain]

I had no idea Salinger was ONE OF THOSE INSPIRATIONS to Luther.

You never asked. 

[Jason]

I do see where Luther's coming from with his posts. And he's basically stating human nature.

A personal example - my girlfriend, in the same day, lost her dog and her aunt. She told me that she felt sadder about losing her dog than her aunt and couldn't understand why. And this is what Luther gets at. My girlfriend saw her dog every day, her aunt not as often. It's not a shameful thing, to have a deeper connection with a family pet than an actual blood relative just because you saw the dog more. It's a kind of ignorance is bliss thing combined with personal bias. We tend to want to forget people who made our lives a problem when they were alive but the ones who we loved dearly every day of our lives we yearn for day after day. It's not ignorance as in not caring, but it's a selective sort of caring.

[the captain]

I agree that I'm talking about human nature, but am actually saying almost the opposite situation from what you describe. The rarely seen grandparent here would be the one whom, in my post, would have been more missed than the daily seen pet, with the idea being that the fond, preserved image/memory can make the loss tougher to deal with than that of the person/pet one seens undergo the all-too-boring, all-too-normal phenomena of aging and death.

[Sheriff John Stone]

This Salinger thread has turned into an interesting one - about human nature. As I posted above, I totally understand what hypehat and Luther are saying. Two quick personal examples:

On literally the day I bought my first Doors album (the comp 13, remember that one?), Jim Morrison died. And I got very heavily into The Doors and especially Jim Morrison after that. I had problems accepting his death, thinking about him/his passing all the time. Now, granted I was young, iimpressionable, and hadn't experienced very much in life yet, but it affected me for a long time.

The other one was my cat. I'm sorry to turn a J.D. Salinger thread into a story about my cat, but...When I was growing up, my mother didn't allow us to have pets. So, as soon as I had my first apartment, a girlfriend bought me a little kitten (no jokes!). Anyway, I had that cat for fifteen years, and when I eventually had to put it down, I cried like a baby. I still get emotional when I think about putting it to sleep, but, I never cried over a relative's death - yet.

Sorry for those two stories, but the board was a little slow, unless we start about Brian's reputation again.

[the captain]

Another key aspect of this is age. Not Salinger's, or the cat's, or Morrison's, but ours. More specifically, ours at the time of impression. Not to say that we can't be impressed in that deep way later in our lives, but there is something about those romantic impressions it seems only a teenager can experience. For me, those years included Salinger, Mercury, Hendrix, Page, Lennon/McCartney, Camus (well, Mersault, anyway), Zappa. The ones who were already dead were already dead. Tough to mourn those losses (though with Freddie it always seemed possible and right to do just that). But those are the ones that I imagine will always be there, the deepest. The one--one, that's all I can think of--exception for me is Brian Wilson, whom I "discovered" (no, nobody had found him before I did) around age 21-22 and really got into a couple years later. All my other musical or literary loves, I think, are more considered, more serious, but less emotional. If Kevin Barnes dies, I don't know what I'll think. Leonard Cohen, ditto. JM Coetzee, Beefheart, Richard Ford, Philip Roth, Lou Reed, even Bob Dylan. Because those are artistic losses, but are they going to be losses of my life, my experience, my aging, my growth? I guess you don't know till it happens, but I don't know.

[hypehat]

I agree with that. I don't know what I'd do if Macca/Jason Pierce/Daniel Johnston/insert another teenage musical love died. Although i'm (barely) still a teenager, so i guess i'm the walking example of what Luther is talking about. These people mean so much to me in such a strange way.

Luther, speaking from slightly recent experience, seeing my cat get slowly ill and shuffle off the mortal coil was more unpleasant then the cross country trip and subsequent attendance of my grandfathers funeral. Although, as previously mentioned, my family is slightly anomalous in this respect, so i can completely see your point. The shock of hearing that he died was strong, though.

[Sheriff John Stone]

From reading several of your posts, I know that I have a couple of years on many of you. And, I can tell you from experience that it doesn't get any easier or go away as you get older. Sentimentality is a stong emotion, and, as you get older, you find yourself starting to look BACK. And that can be enjoyable, especially in the arts, where you have something tangible to hold on to or remember them by.

One thing I find interesting, but not earth shattering...If the "artist" who passes away is no longer producing or contributing art, or passes away at an older age, it is easier to deal with. But, if the artist is still vital, even releasing new material, well, that makes it a little tougher - selfishly, I guess. Take Dylan for example. If he's still churning out albums and/or touring, I'll think "Damn" - even though he has given us more than we could ever ask for. A little like Johnny Cash I guess. But, take an artist who stopped producing new material years ago, it stings for sure, but not as much. That's when the sentimentality sinks in. The world was a better place when they were around, and just knowing tey were around...

[Shady]

One book everyone should read.

RIP

[the captain]

Which, Franny and Zooey? 'cause that's his best one. (That or Nine Stories.)

[Shady]

Which, Franny and Zooey? 'cause that's his best one. (That or Nine Stories.)

I meant Catcher.

Tried Franny and Zooey once, never really grabbed me, but since his passing I might pick it up again, was 16 when I tried to read it, 19 now, maybe my taste has changed 

[the captain]

I knew--or assumed--what you meant. And obviously Catcher is what grabs most people, especially as they read it as (presumably typically disaffected) teenagers. But the two I mentioned are, I'd say, better.

[Shady]

I'll read Franny and Zooey again soon enough, I'm curious about Nine Stories though, can't even find that anywhere.

[the captain]

I'm curious about Nine Stories though, can't even find that anywhere.

That's surprising, if you're in an even remotely metropolitan area. But regardless, with Salinger's death, I'd assume any typical chain bookstore will have it posthaste. There are a pair of stories you'll find there that I--and I'm not original here, these are stories generally considered to be his best--that are just wonderful: "A Perfect Day For Bananafish" and "For Esme, With Love and Squalor." Both really fantastic.

[Jay]

From reading several of your posts, I know that I have a couple of years on many of you. And, I can tell you from experience that it doesn't get any easier or go away as you get older. Sentimentality is a stong emotion, and, as you get older, you find yourself starting to look BACK. And that can be enjoyable, especially in the arts, where you have something tangible to hold on to or remember them by.

One thing I find interesting, but not earth shattering...If the "artist" who passes away is no longer producing or contributing art, or passes away at an older age, it is easier to deal with. But, if the artist is still vital, even releasing new material, well, that makes it a little tougher - selfishly, I guess. Take Dylan for example. If he's still churning out albums and/or touring, I'll think "Damn" - even though he has given us more than we could ever ask for. A little like Johnny Cash I guess. But, take an artist who stopped producing new material years ago, it stings for sure, but not as much. That's when the sentimentality sinks in. The world was a better place when they were around, and just knowing tey were around...

You know, as I get a little older(I'm 24), I find myself looking back, and trying to hold on to some of my childhood experiences. It really started in the last year or so. My dad got sick in the last few months of 2008, and slowly got worse until he died on September 18th of 2009. I find myself watching old Disney cartoons of Mickey, Goofy and Donald(don't laugh!). I remember watching the same cartoons many years ago with my Dad. I find myself really starting to miss that...."familiarity". Does that make any sense? It's that old familiar feeling of almost a kind of "comfort". It's that certain little "magic" that I miss. That warm, peacful period where for a brief minute, everything in the world was perfect.

[the captain]

That's Disney Girls.