Brian on the Smile album after it collapsed

[variable2]

In interviews after the Smile period in 66-67, Brian always dismissed the album or didn't comment, correct?  Why do you think this is?  Also, are there any instances of Brian relating to the Smile material in the years after, such as the Cocaine sessions version of Heroes and Villains?

[b00ts]

There was a brief instance in 2004 when he released an entirely re-recorded SMiLe and toured it many times the world over.

I'll show myself out...

[The Song Of The Grange]

The Beach Boys revisited Smile material for 20/20 and Surf's Up and live in The Beach Boys in Concert double LP.  Brian wasn't too involved in a lot of this stuff though.  I think he helped re-assemble Cabin Essence and Our Prayer in 1969 and he helped out a bit with the remake of Surf's Up in 1971. There was the "cocaine sessions" and the performance of Heroes and Villains at that All-Star Tribute To Brian Wilson. Then I think the next time Smile was revisited was when he started playing a couple songs live with the Wondermints.  I can't remember if BW played any Smile songs on the Pet Sounds tour.  Then of course 2003-04.  I am sure someone out there can give a much better run down than this, and I hope someone does.

Why did he dismiss the album and the era?  His reasons kept on changing through the years. That 1968 radio interview is probably the most telling explanation.  But after that he game lots of reasons why the record didn't come out: it "scared" him, he was on too much hash,  the music was too "artistic", he needed more time to finish it, the music was "bad for vocals", there was no beach boys in it, it sounded drugged out, he took too much LSD, he had a mental breakdown, there was disagreement over Surf's Up and the band nearly broke up, it was "inappropriate music" etc etc.

[Jason]

Brian had nothing to do with the work done on Cabinessence and Our Prayer that was performed in late 1968 for 20/20. Carl and Dennis produced the sweetening sessions for those tracks, and Bruce assisted in the vocal overdubs. The Surf's Up sessions in 1970 were initially slated to have Brian sing lead over the first movement but his voice was so far gone by that time that he gave up after two takes. He did assist with the sessions later.

Although he was present at several Beach Boys shows where Heroes and Villains was performed, Brian himself didn't play any Smile songs live until the Tribute show, then in 2001 during the Paul Simon tour he played Our Prayer, Heroes and Villains, and Surf's Up. In 2002, during the British Pet Sounds tours, he played these same songs, and in summer 2002 he added a medley of Wonderful and Cabinessence as well as You're Welcome. He played all six songs at a few shows in the USA in late summer 2002.

[c-man]

Although he was present at several Beach Boys shows where Heroes and Villains was performed, Brian himself didn't play any Smile songs live until the Tribute show,

Actually, that wasn't always the case at every show...Brian was present playing on "H&V" at the January '77 Largo, MD show (piano) & the March '78 Melbourne, AUSTRALIA show (bass).  When I saw them for the first time in July '79, he did leave the stage for a few songs (including not just "H&V" but also "Surfer Girl").

[oldsurferdude]

Brian had nothing to do with the work done on Cabinessence and Our Prayer that was performed in late 1968 for 20/20. Carl and Dennis produced the sweetening sessions for those tracks, and Bruce assisted in the vocal overdubs. The Surf's Up sessions in 1970 were initially slated to have Brian sing lead over the first movement but his voice was so far gone by that time that he gave up after two takes. He did assist with the sessions later.

Although he was present at several Beach Boys shows where Heroes and Villains was performed, Brian himself didn't play any Smile songs live until the Tribute show, then in 2001 during the Paul Simon tour he played Our Prayer, Heroes and Villains, and Surf's Up. In 2002, during the British Pet Sounds tours, he played these same songs, and in summer 2002 he added a medley of Wonderful and Cabinessence as well as You're Welcome. He played all six songs at a few shows in the USA in late summer 2002.

"...his voice was too far gone..." Given that Sunflower was released in 1970 and Brian sounded as good as ever, can you qualify that statement ?

[Jason]

The song by that point in 1970 was out of Brian's range. You'll note that in some tracks from Sunflower, and the Jan Berry single Don't You Just Know It, Brian's voice became a bit reedy and his higher register wasn't as easily sustained. To an extent, even in 1966 Brian had trouble with some of the notes, but we're still going on his piano/vocal track. We obviously don't know how a full version would have turned out in 1967.

I forget who made the contemporary reference, but it was to the tune of Brian being so disenchanted with how his voice sounded on his two stabs in 1970 that he became embarrassed and went back to his room, only to come back down later to help arrange the vocals for the tag. Brian also said in a 1995 interview for BBC Radio 1, and this quote is verbatim from the man himself -

"Surf's Up?!? Oh, I'm embarrassed. Totally embarrassed. That was a piece of...sh*t (emphasis) in my eyes. I was the wrong singer for it in the first place, and secondly I can't believe we would ever let a record go out like that."

I would say, from that perspective, Brian's never been satisfied with any released version of Surf's Up.

[Ian]

While I agree that Brian did indeed say that in 1995...The fact is that he's wrong.  Incredible vocal on that Tv show-one of the best ever

[Jay]

Slightly OT: That T.V. show version of Surf's Up to me represents SMiLE in a nutshell. It's everything from bliss....to heartache, and dispair.

[rogerlancelot]

Slightly OT: That T.V. show version of Surf's Up to me represents SMiLE in a nutshell. It's everything from bliss....to heartache, and dispair.

That whole show was really cool. I have a copy of "Inside Pop" somewhere. A great watch indeed!

[TheLazenby]

We all know by now that what has come out of Brian's mouth about "Smile" hasn't always been the truth...

I mean, he did claim to have burnt the tapes.  That doesn't seem to be true in the least - ESPECIALLY the "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" material.

[Jay]

The song by that point in 1970 was out of Brian's range. You'll note that in some tracks from Sunflower, and the Jan Berry single Don't You Just Know It, Brian's voice became a bit reedy and his higher register wasn't as easily sustained. To an extent, even in 1966 Brian had trouble with some of the notes, but we're still going on his piano/vocal track. We obviously don't know how a full version would have turned out in 1967.

I forget who made the contemporary reference, but it was to the tune of Brian being so disenchanted with how his voice sounded on his two stabs in 1970 that he became embarrassed and went back to his room, only to come back down later to help arrange the vocals for the tag. Brian also said in a 1995 interview for BBC Radio 1, and this quote is verbatim from the man himself -

"Surf's Up?!? Oh, I'm embarrassed. Totally embarrassed. That was a piece of...merda (emphasis) in my eyes. I was the wrong singer for it in the first place, and secondly I can't believe we would ever let a record go out like that."

I would say, from that perspective, Brian's never been satisfied with any released version of Surf's Up.

No offense meant, but that "Brian's voice was to far gone" thing is ridiculous. There exists an isolated recording of Carl and Brian doing their vocal parts for Til I Die. At the end Carl and Brian both do this falsetto part. Carl does this INSANELY HIGH note, and Brian does an almost but not quite as high note. Out of the two, Carl's voice cracks first. Brian consistently hold his note perfectly.

[Jason]

This recording, which I've never heard and do not possess in any format, is a prime example of how Brian's voice had changed by 1970. His voice was still there but the rawness was setting in.

[Jay]

Truth be told, ten-twelve years of consistently singing in falsetto would change anybody's voice. But, had Brian not smoked as much as he did(or at all), I believe that he'd have probably been able to hold on to most of his voice throughout the decade.

[Jason]

Possibly...but most males go through a sort of vocal change in their mid-30s. Brian's came earlier due to his cocaine and cigarette use. 1974 is considered the jumping-off point.

[XY]

Listening to Brian's falsetto in the early 70's, "Awake" etc..., I would even speculate that he would've sung it better in 1970 than on the 66 demos. But, he probably wasn't involved with his whole heart, too nervous and uninterested.

[Chris Brown]

Listening to Brian's falsetto in the early 70's, "Awake" etc..., I would even speculate that he would've sung it better in 1970 than on the 66 demos. But, he probably wasn't involved with his whole heart, too nervous and uninterested.

That's what I was thinking.  We all know that Brian didn't want the song finished and release at all, so perhaps he thought that if he attempted the lead vocal and "failed," the group would abandon the song.  A weak attempt at sabotage, essentially.

[18thofMay]

 I am 33 never smoked and can do his parts fine. Can hit the notes but gee they are hard to hold. His voice was going sweet till we lost him mid 70's. I will never be convinced that brians voice was on the way out in 67 his voice was great if not in my opinion finding a bit more range!! Oh and by the way the Pet sounds box set which has the "Brian sings lead" I dont think that's Brian, I think it's Carl doing Brian!

[Ganz Allein]

Brian had nothing to do with the work done on Cabinessence and Our Prayer that was performed in late 1968 for 20/20. Carl and Dennis produced the sweetening sessions for those tracks, and Bruce assisted in the vocal overdubs. The Surf's Up sessions in 1970 were initially slated to have Brian sing lead over the first movement but his voice was so far gone by that time that he gave up after two takes. He did assist with the sessions later.

Did Brian come up with any new parts for the SU coda when arranging the vocals?  I've read so many conflicting things - he came up with a new melody, he revived a forgotten older melody, he wasn't actually there at all, etc.  And did he actually sing on it?

[Chris Brown]

Brian had nothing to do with the work done on Cabinessence and Our Prayer that was performed in late 1968 for 20/20. Carl and Dennis produced the sweetening sessions for those tracks, and Bruce assisted in the vocal overdubs. The Surf's Up sessions in 1970 were initially slated to have Brian sing lead over the first movement but his voice was so far gone by that time that he gave up after two takes. He did assist with the sessions later.

Did Brian come up with any new parts for the SU coda when arranging the vocals?  I've read so many conflicting things - he came up with a new melody, he revived a forgotten older melody, he wasn't actually there at all, etc.  And did he actually sing on it?

You're right, there is so much conflicting information out there.  The most trustworthy recollection, I think, would be that of Steve Desper, who (I believe) said that Brian came down with the lyrics for the coda and did a little arranging of the other parts.  I don't think Brian sang on the coda though, aside from his original part from the '66 demo.  In the vocal credits thread I'm pretty sure it was determined that Al was the one who sang the coda lyrics.

[Ganz Allein]

Brian had nothing to do with the work done on Cabinessence and Our Prayer that was performed in late 1968 for 20/20. Carl and Dennis produced the sweetening sessions for those tracks, and Bruce assisted in the vocal overdubs. The Surf's Up sessions in 1970 were initially slated to have Brian sing lead over the first movement but his voice was so far gone by that time that he gave up after two takes. He did assist with the sessions later.

Did Brian come up with any new parts for the SU coda when arranging the vocals?  I've read so many conflicting things - he came up with a new melody, he revived a forgotten older melody, he wasn't actually there at all, etc.  And did he actually sing on it?

You're right, there is so much conflicting information out there.  The most trustworthy recollection, I think, would be that of Steve Desper, who (I believe) said that Brian came down with the lyrics for the coda and did a little arranging of the other parts.  I don't think Brian sang on the coda though, aside from his original part from the '66 demo.  In the vocal credits thread I'm pretty sure it was determined that Al was the one who sang the coda lyrics.

It does sound like Al on the coda.  As for the lyrics, I've also read an interview with Jack Reiely where he claims authorship of them. 

[lance]

I could be mistaken but I think that somewhere buried on the Stephen Desper thread(or on the Stephen Desper archived thread on www.surfermoon.com) he says that it is Brian but it is sped up.

[armona]

yup. I asked Stephen D. awhile back about this and he said it was Brian:

Hi Stephen,
Sorry if you've answered this before, but who sang the "A Children's Song" lyric at the end of Surf's Up in 1971? I've always assumed it was Brian. Badman's book mentions he arranged the final part, but doesn't say whether he actually sang that tag.

Thanks!

COMMENT:  Well, if you had read my book, Recording The Beach Boys, you would find on page 44 a detailed recollection of that part of the sessions for Surfs Up and the story of how BRIAN added the Children's Song line to the end of the song.  ~swd

[Runaways]

Carl's voice doesn't fit Surf's Up for me.  my definite version is the 04 and PC versions.  Carl's just sounds weird did brian comes in, then i relax

[armona]

Carl's voice doesn't fit Surf's Up for me.  my definite version is the 04 and PC versions.  Carl's just sounds weird did brian comes in, then i relax

Agreed. I love Carl's voice, but my favorite version is a homegrown sync-up of Brian's original 1966 vocal and piano to the 1966 instrumental track, ending with the 1971 coda. The history of the song is as compelling as the song itself, and having Brian sing lead through the whole thing just makes sense.