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History of Mike's reputation
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Topic: History of Mike's reputation (Read 76492 times)
Wilsonista
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #250 on:
January 12, 2010, 03:20:01 PM »
Well said, BillA and Meade.
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Sheriff John Stone
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #251 on:
January 12, 2010, 03:26:05 PM »
Quote from: BillA on January 12, 2010, 02:55:13 PM
The reason why it is thirteen pages is because Mike has proclaimed himself the savoir of the Beach Boys at the expense of the other members.
What interview or press release are you referring to where Mike "proclaimed himself the savior of the Beach Boys"?
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KokoMoses
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
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Reply #252 on:
January 12, 2010, 04:07:20 PM »
yeah, good question! it kills me how, no matter how reasoned about this topic we can all be, it always goes back to "oh yeah, well Mike's a butthole"!
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ESQ Editor
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #253 on:
January 12, 2010, 04:41:10 PM »
Quote from: BillA on January 12, 2010, 02:55:13 PM
Quote from: bgas on January 12, 2010, 09:05:24 AM
Quote from: ESQ Editor on January 12, 2010, 08:26:13 AM
A lot of subjective speculation taking place on this subject.
I'm amazed at the level of attention it has brought, which basically points to one truth: Mike Love continues to be a significant contributor to the Beach Boys history. How else would you explain 13 pages on the subject? I'll go on record and say that I think Mike is a great performer and brings a positive fun-seeking attitude to the current shows. Considering all that he's been through in the group (along with all the others) he could be a lot more jilted than he is.
Or, it could be said that Mike continues to be a significant detractor from/to their history and legacy. Obviously we don't all agree on Mike's place, hence the pages.
Personally, I like him as the performer he is; He did co-write a lot of great songs, no doubt; but he belittles himself by claiming credit for every tiny bit.
Not certain what you meant by Jilted( to cast aside a lover), unless perhaps you think of the other members of the BBs as his lovers
The reason why it is thirteen pages is because Mike has proclaimed himself the savoir of the Beach Boys at the expense of the other members.
If any member were to be credited with saving the Beach Boys (following Brian's late 60's withdrawal) it would have to be Carl. Under his leadership the band remained somewhat commercially viable, critically viable and they became one of the best performing bands in existence.
It could be argued that the band members (excluding Brian even though "'Til I Die is unbelievably good) did their best work while Carl was at the helm.
If Carl did not fill the leadership vacuum left by Brian when he did the Beach Boys would have ended in 1970. If Carl did not lead the touring band there is no way they could have capitalized on the success of "Endless Summer".
Under Mike's leadership the Beach Boys commercial and critical appeal evaporated (although I could point out that from 1976 through 1998 if you take the top 10 recordings six of them were Carl Wilson compositions) and the excellence of the live shows was replaced by spotty quality.
When did Mike make this proclamation?
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Wilsonista
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #254 on:
January 12, 2010, 06:49:20 PM »
The inference was there in the miniseries.
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BillA
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #255 on:
January 12, 2010, 06:50:35 PM »
Quote from: Sheriff John Stone on January 12, 2010, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: BillA on January 12, 2010, 02:55:13 PM
The reason why it is thirteen pages is because Mike has proclaimed himself the savoir of the Beach Boys at the expense of the other members.
What interview or press release are you referring to where Mike "proclaimed himself the savior of the Beach Boys"?
"Proclamation" might be a poor word choice but we need go no further than "The Beach Boys: An American Family" or the quote from the Capital bio: "In 1974 Mike Love’s concept album Endless Summer ignited a second generation of Beach Boys fans and stirred a tempest that rocked the music world."
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In 1974 Mike Love's concept album Endless Summer ignited a second generation of Beach Boys fans and stirred a comeback that rocked the music world.
KokoMoses
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
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Reply #256 on:
January 12, 2010, 07:16:15 PM »
Has anyone ever argued that the success of Endless Summer brought the Beach Boys legions of new fans/renewed interest and $$$? Was it Mike's entire idea and did he hold a gun to the other Beach Boys heads and demand they release it? If anyone's to blame for this, it should be Brian, right, for writing all those amazing songs in the first place?
As for An American Family? So what? Mike's been slammed enough in print over the years. So, he got to have input in a stupid TV movie! Big deal!
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Dancing Bear
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #257 on:
January 12, 2010, 07:35:35 PM »
Quote from: BillA on January 12, 2010, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: Sheriff John Stone on January 12, 2010, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: BillA on January 12, 2010, 02:55:13 PM
The reason why it is thirteen pages is because Mike has proclaimed himself the savoir of the Beach Boys at the expense of the other members.
What interview or press release are you referring to where Mike "proclaimed himself the savior of the Beach Boys"?
"Proclamation" might be a poor word choice but we need go no further than "The Beach Boys: An American Family" or the quote from the Capital bio: "In 1974 Mike Love’s concept album Endless Summer ignited a second generation of Beach Boys fans and stirred a tempest that rocked the music world."
Everyone knows that Endles Summer is a compilation of Brian Wilson tunes, with several lyricists.
Does it also bother you when it's said that Mike wrote the lyrics to teh Beach Boys' biggest single? People will still know that Brian wrote the tune.
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Jay
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #258 on:
January 12, 2010, 07:49:26 PM »
This might be an odd question, but exactly how is Endless Summer a "concept album"?
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the captain
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #259 on:
January 12, 2010, 07:51:16 PM »
The concept would be a loose one, the title itself, the Beach Boys' image of an endless summer. Not a narrative or anything.
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No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
Cam Mott
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #260 on:
January 12, 2010, 08:02:22 PM »
The band wasn't even with the Capitol label at the time. Mike has said before that Capitol put together Endless Summer without any input from any of the group, when it was presented to the band as Capitol's next release Mike suggested the title Endless Summer instead of some generic title. I don't know who wrote this blurb but I think they give Mike undue credit; we're cool with undue credit right? That album didn't work out anyway and the band slipped into obscurity and was never heard from again after its release.
Speaking of undue credit, the author of American Family was Kirk Ellis.
«
Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 08:08:53 PM by Cam Mott
»
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Cam Mott
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #261 on:
January 12, 2010, 08:12:06 PM »
Also, can none of you songwriters help me out with this previous inquiry?
"2. Who would profit from this supposed songwriting credit tampering? Wouldn't the publisher's cut be separate from the songwriter's cut and remain the same regardless of who, or how many, was credited with the songwriting? In other words, there would be no economic advantage to the publisher for adding or subtracting the numbers of songwriters on the paperwork but there would be an advantage/disadvantage for the songwriters. Or do I have that wrong? I'd be interested to hear from those who actually know about this sort thing."
Thanks.
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bgas
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Oh for the good old days
Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #262 on:
January 12, 2010, 08:37:57 PM »
Quote from: Cam Mott on January 12, 2010, 08:12:06 PM
Also, can none of you songwriters help me out with this previous inquiry?
"2. Who would profit from this supposed songwriting credit tampering? Wouldn't the publisher's cut be separate from the songwriter's cut and remain the same regardless of who, or how many, was credited with the songwriting? In other words, there would be no economic advantage to the publisher for adding or subtracting the numbers of songwriters on the paperwork but there would be an advantage/disadvantage for the songwriters. Or do I have that wrong? I'd be interested to hear from those who actually know about this sort thing."
Thanks.
Not a songwriter; but as to the credits, I'd venture the whole thing leads back to Murry.
While he didn't necessarily "like" Brian's non-mike Love cowriters, he definitely had "problems" with Mike and his father. the whole one-upmanship family deal.
So it would be a natural thing for him to Take from Mike and Give to Brian, as much as he could. Keep the $$ flowing back to the son of a genius.
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BillA
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #263 on:
January 12, 2010, 08:40:53 PM »
Quote from: Dancing Bear on January 12, 2010, 07:35:35 PM
Quote from: BillA on January 12, 2010, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: Sheriff John Stone on January 12, 2010, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: BillA on January 12, 2010, 02:55:13 PM
The reason why it is thirteen pages is because Mike has proclaimed himself the savoir of the Beach Boys at the expense of the other members.
What interview or press release are you referring to where Mike "proclaimed himself the savior of the Beach Boys"?
"Proclamation" might be a poor word choice but we need go no further than "The Beach Boys: An American Family" or the quote from the Capital bio: "In 1974 Mike Love’s concept album Endless Summer ignited a second generation of Beach Boys fans and stirred a tempest that rocked the music world."
Everyone knows that Endles Summer is a compilation of Brian Wilson tunes, with several lyricists.
Does it also bother you when it's said that Mike wrote the lyrics to teh Beach Boys' biggest single? People will still know that Brian wrote the tune.
It only bothers me that it was called a Mike Love concept album.
Everyone does not know that Endless Summer is a compilation of Brian Wilson tunes. It was released 36 years ago.
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In 1974 Mike Love's concept album Endless Summer ignited a second generation of Beach Boys fans and stirred a comeback that rocked the music world.
BillA
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #264 on:
January 12, 2010, 08:49:40 PM »
Quote from: erikdavid5000 on January 12, 2010, 07:16:15 PM
Has anyone ever argued that the success of Endless Summer brought the Beach Boys legions of new fans/renewed interest and $$$? Was it Mike's entire idea and did he hold a gun to the other Beach Boys heads and demand they release it? If anyone's to blame for this, it should be Brian, right, for writing all those amazing songs in the first place?
One of the reasons Endless Summer sold so well (in addtion to the general quality of the music and the nostalgia of that era) is that the Beach Boys were a great live band. If you were to give credit to one Beach Boy for the quality of the live show at that time who would ithat be? Without Carl's leadership it is likely the band would have ended in 1969. How successful would "Endless Summer" have been if there were no band to tour behind it?
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In 1974 Mike Love's concept album Endless Summer ignited a second generation of Beach Boys fans and stirred a comeback that rocked the music world.
Wilsonista
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #265 on:
January 12, 2010, 08:53:34 PM »
Quote from: bgas on January 12, 2010, 08:37:57 PM
Quote from: Cam Mott on January 12, 2010, 08:12:06 PM
Also, can none of you songwriters help me out with this previous inquiry?
"2. Who would profit from this supposed songwriting credit tampering? Wouldn't the publisher's cut be separate from the songwriter's cut and remain the same regardless of who, or how many, was credited with the songwriting? In other words, there would be no economic advantage to the publisher for adding or subtracting the numbers of songwriters on the paperwork but there would be an advantage/disadvantage for the songwriters. Or do I have that wrong? I'd be interested to hear from those who actually know about this sort thing."
Thanks.
Not a songwriter; but as to the credits, I'd venture the whole thing leads back to Murry.
While he didn't necessarily "like" Brian's non-mike Love cowriters, he definitely had "problems" with Mike and his father..
For proof of this, refer to The Murry letter where (if I remember correctly) Murry stated that he wanted to kick Mike out of the BB.
To answer Cam's question, I would think that you are correct in most pubishing situations. The way that Sea of Tunes was set up was different and cannot be compared to the average publishing situation.
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KokoMoses
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #266 on:
January 12, 2010, 09:37:54 PM »
Murry wanted to get rid of Al too, didn't he?
"Thanks Uncle Murry" indeed!
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Andrew G. Doe
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #267 on:
January 12, 2010, 09:45:58 PM »
Quote from: Dancing Bear on January 12, 2010, 07:35:35 PM
Quote from: BillA on January 12, 2010, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: Sheriff John Stone on January 12, 2010, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: BillA on January 12, 2010, 02:55:13 PM
The reason why it is thirteen pages is because Mike has proclaimed himself the savoir of the Beach Boys at the expense of the other members.
What interview or press release are you referring to where Mike "proclaimed himself the savior of the Beach Boys"?
"Proclamation" might be a poor word choice but we need go no further than "The Beach Boys: An American Family" or the quote from the Capital bio: "In 1974 Mike Love’s concept album Endless Summer ignited a second generation of Beach Boys fans and stirred a tempest that rocked the music world."
Everyone knows that Endles Summer is a compilation of Brian Wilson tunes, with several lyricists.
Does it also bother you when it's said that Mike wrote the lyrics to teh Beach Boys' biggest single? People will still know that Brian wrote the tune.
Brian had exactly
nothing
to do with any aspect of "the Beach Boys biggest single"... and Mike wrote very little of the lyric.
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Surfer Joe
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #268 on:
January 12, 2010, 10:18:02 PM »
"Kokomo" actually outsold "Good Vibrations"? That's a statement in itself.
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The Heartical Don
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #269 on:
January 13, 2010, 12:32:28 AM »
Quote from: Surfer Joe on January 12, 2010, 10:18:02 PM
"Kokomo" actually outsold "Good Vibrations"? That's a statement in itself.
The world population increased much between 1967 and 1989. Also, the amount of the planet's inhabitants being able to watch bad movies also went up by 9000%. I think that explains it.
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Dancing Bear
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #270 on:
January 13, 2010, 02:03:22 AM »
Quote from: BillA on January 12, 2010, 08:49:40 PM
Quote from: erikdavid5000 on January 12, 2010, 07:16:15 PM
Has anyone ever argued that the success of Endless Summer brought the Beach Boys legions of new fans/renewed interest and $$$? Was it Mike's entire idea and did he hold a gun to the other Beach Boys heads and demand they release it? If anyone's to blame for this, it should be Brian, right, for writing all those amazing songs in the first place?
One of the reasons Endless Summer sold so well (in addtion to the general quality of the music and the nostalgia of that era) is that the Beach Boys were a great live band. If you were to give credit to one Beach Boy for the quality of the live show at that time who would ithat be? Without Carl's leadership it is likely the band would have ended in 1969. How successful would "Endless Summer" have been if there were no band to tour behind it?
Possibly the same.
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The Heartical Don
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #271 on:
January 13, 2010, 02:07:53 AM »
Quote from: Dancing Bear on January 13, 2010, 02:03:22 AM
Quote from: BillA on January 12, 2010, 08:49:40 PM
Quote from: erikdavid5000 on January 12, 2010, 07:16:15 PM
Has anyone ever argued that the success of Endless Summer brought the Beach Boys legions of new fans/renewed interest and $$$? Was it Mike's entire idea and did he hold a gun to the other Beach Boys heads and demand they release it? If anyone's to blame for this, it should be Brian, right, for writing all those amazing songs in the first place?
One of the reasons Endless Summer sold so well (in addtion to the general quality of the music and the nostalgia of that era) is that the Beach Boys were a great live band. If you were to give credit to one Beach Boy for the quality of the live show at that time who would ithat be? Without Carl's leadership it is likely the band would have ended in 1969. How successful would "Endless Summer" have been if there were no band to tour behind it?
Possibly the same.
Wasn't the famous Wembley show (w. Elton John headlining to promote his 'Cap'n Fantastic' album, and the Eagles, instrumental in the success of Endless Summer? I seem to recall that reports of it were a big boost worldwide. That would support the 'touring band' theory.
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Nicko
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #272 on:
January 13, 2010, 02:25:47 AM »
In June 1975?
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The Heartical Don
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #273 on:
January 13, 2010, 02:38:33 AM »
Yes.
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80% Of Success Is Showing Up
MBE
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Re: History of Mike's reputation
«
Reply #274 on:
January 13, 2010, 03:09:12 AM »
It may have boosted the sales of 20 Golden Greats from 1976. Endless Summer already peaked. Spirit Of America and Good Vibrations Best Of The Beach Boys probably sold more because of the Chicago joint tour.
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