History of Mike's reputation

[TdHabib]

It's funny puting <censored> makes it sound 10x worse than it was.

By the way, wasn't there a second drummer on payroll from 1968??

Here's two posts of mine on the sandbox thread that I feel are good:

I must agree with Stone about the mental illness card being overplayed and a cop-out. A point I'd like to add meekly and humbly is that there is a certain kind of inbalance in the Wilson/Love blood as far as I know that would be, I don't want to say hereditary but certainly handed down...remember Murry's father was a very harsh man which carried to Murry and Murry stayed in bed for long periods. Brian was known to do this. Dennis and Murry had a lot in common and more than once Carl was described as a slighter version of Murry without the shouting and temper (which I only agree with for small periods). Stan beat up his cousin Dennis very badly, and Dennis married his cousin's daughter. Mike had 8 children and Brian has (adopted and natural) 6 children total. Brian and Carl had a difficult relationship later in life. Also remember Mike was institutionalized for a period, has not been on speaking terms with his father for a considerable amount of time and also doesn't talk to Stan now (I believe it's Stan although it could be Steve). There are definite patterns and you have to keep this is mind when discussing the whole saga.

One more point is that some people rightly take offense when people blame Mike for Brian's problems. It is possible, probable IMHO that Mike hurt Brian without knowing he was doing so. I was thinking of a personal situation where I had an argument with someone which played out with several other people, she really hurt my feelings, and then about a year later she told me half of the things I thought she said she never did and people were exaggerating and/or I was coming to the wrong conclusions at the time. I think this is what happened with Mike and Brian. They had arguments, Brian's feelings got hurt and he probably made it worse than it was. Mike probably was just saying/doing what he thought was right and what he felt strongly about. Brian in 1965-1967 (and then 10x so in the following years) was a fragile person easily upset. Hell, he cried at "Flipper" and didn't have a lot of patience in general. Mike could've easily upset Brian without knowing he was doing so or as bad as he was. Just a theory.
 

[smile-holland]

2 questions.....

1.  What was written in the area labled <censored>, or is this something that I really don't want to know about?

It was decided to put this topic back, but with those remarks that were or could be considered personally insulting or threatening (whether it was intentional or unintentional) edited out.
Maybe not an insult to you, but certainly to others. I thought it would be wise to edit those out. I could have chosen to delete complete posts, but then the context of the whole topic could get lost at some points.

It's funny puting <censored> makes it sound 10x worse than it was.

I could change it into    or     ...   might as well be simply a few dots (if you think that would be better).

(but I'm ignoring my own advise now, so let's get back on topic)

[Andrew G. Doe]

By the way, wasn't there a second drummer on payroll from 1968??

Nope - Dennis was the drummer up until early 1971: thereafter, Ricky drummed until late 1974. Jon can give you chapter & verse but I think the double drummer setup was only implemented when Dennis' unreliability started escalating in the late 70s.

[TdHabib]

By the way, wasn't there a second drummer on payroll from 1968??

Nope - Dennis was the drummer up until early 1971: thereafter, Ricky drummed until late 1974. Jon can give you chapter & verse but I think the double drummer setup was only implemented when Dennis' unreliability started escalating in the late 70s.

When was Kowalski hired?

[Andrew G. Doe]

By the way, wasn't there a second drummer on payroll from 1968??

Nope - Dennis was the drummer up until early 1971: thereafter, Ricky drummed until late 1974. Jon can give you chapter & verse but I think the double drummer setup was only implemented when Dennis' unreliability started escalating in the late 70s.

When was Kowalski hired?

Think he was hired 1968, 1969.

[Nicko]

One more point is that some people rightly take offense when people blame Mike for Brian's problems. It is possible, probable IMHO that Mike hurt Brian without knowing he was doing so. I was thinking of a personal situation where I had an argument with someone which played out with several other people, she really hurt my feelings, and then about a year later she told me half of the things I thought she said she never did and people were exaggerating and/or I was coming to the wrong conclusions at the time. I think this is what happened with Mike and Brian. They had arguments, Brian's feelings got hurt and he probably made it worse than it was. Mike probably was just saying/doing what he thought was right and what he felt strongly about. Brian in 1965-1967 (and then 10x so in the following years) was a fragile person easily upset. Hell, he cried at "Flipper" and didn't have a lot of patience in general. Mike could've easily upset Brian without knowing he was doing so or as bad as he was. Just a theory.
 

Absolutely. Mike and the other band members obviously would have wanted Brian to be healthy and happy. Even if they didn't care about him as a person (and I don't believe that of any of them), they would have wanted it for the benefit of the group.

[Pretty Funky]

By the way, wasn't there a second drummer on payroll from 1968??

Nope - Dennis was the drummer up until early 1971: thereafter, Ricky drummed until late 1974. Jon can give you chapter & verse but I think the double drummer setup was only implemented when Dennis' unreliability started escalating in the late 70s.

When was Kowalski hired?

Think he was hired 1968, 1969.

 

[Cam Mott]

Getting back to the topic, I think it was the Rolling Stone articles in the late 70s. I don't think the earlier articles were taken as negative but then in the late 70's a negative spin began to be put on the Boys [not just Mike] and those earlier articles/everything began to be spun in a negative light. Any love for that observation/theory?

[The infamous Baldwin Organ]

By the way, wasn't there a second drummer on payroll from 1968??

Nope - Dennis was the drummer up until early 1971: thereafter, Ricky drummed until late 1974. Jon can give you chapter & verse but I think the double drummer setup was only implemented when Dennis' unreliability started escalating in the late 70s.

When was Kowalski hired?

Think he was hired 1968, 1969.

Just to be clear, was he only hired for secondary percussion and not to play the drum set? It was previously said Dennis was the only drummer up until 1971. Thank you.

[Jon Stebbins]

Starting in '68 the BB's began using a percussionist to fill out their sound, just as they added brass and more keyboards. They only had one drum kit on stage, except for a brief period in late '74 and again in 82/83. In late '74 it was utilized for Dennis to double drum with Ricky or Bobby...in 82/83 it was Dennis and Mike Kowalski. Other than that it was one kit, one drummer, and one percussionist. Primary drummer was Dennis '62 to '71. Ricky '72 to '74. Dennis late '74 to '83 (with a lot of missed shows and tours for DW in the '80 to '83 period). Kowalski took the primary role after that. When Dennis missed shows Bobby, Mike K. and others filled in. This is a general overview. There are periods like when DW was filming Two Lane Blacktop for a month or two in '70 that Kowalski took over, or when he was kicked out for part of '80 when Scott Matthews or Bobby F.  took over. But Generally the chronology of drummers is as stated above.

[TdHabib]

Starting in '68 the BB's began using a percussionist to fill out their sound, just as they added brass and more keyboards. They only had one drum kit on stage, except for a brief period in late '74 and again in 82/83. In late '74 it was utilized for Dennis to double drum with Ricky or Bobby...in 82/83 it was Dennis and Mike Kowalski. Other than that it was one kit, one drummer, and one percussionist. Primary drummer was Dennis '62 to '71. Ricky '72 to '74. Dennis late '74 to '83 (with a lot of missed shows and tours for DW in the '80 to '83 period). Kowalski took the primary role after that. When Dennis missed shows Bobby, Mike K. and others filled in. This is a general overview. There are periods like when DW was filming Two Lane Blacktop for a month or two in '70 that Kowalski took over, or when he was kicked out for part of '80 when Scott Matthews or Bobby F.  took over. But Generally the chronology of drummers is as stated above.

Thanks, Jon, now I understand fully...

[adamghost]

Wasn't Dennis Dragon a fill-in around this time too?  It seems like I remember he was the drummer on the 1970 recording of a show from Syracuse, N.Y. around the time of the Big Sur festival...

[KokoMoses]

Dennis Dragon also played extra percussion onstage too, right?

It's certainly him on congas in that clip of Wild Honey from, I think, 72? 73? with Keith Moon and Elton John on Help Me Rhonda.

[adamghost]

I'm wondering if they didn't try DD out in '70 and he was too busy on the drums, so they moved him to percussion.  He was definitely one of those guys that went apesh*t on the kit and the reason the performance I'm referring to stuck out in my mind was it definitely sounded like a busy drummer subbing for a simple one, and the overall group performance suffered.  BTW, was he the drummer on "It's About Time?"  I always assumed it was him...with all those crazy snare fills.

It's just a theory based on a memory...been a long time since I listened to the show in question.

[KokoMoses]

This just further points out how Dennis was the PERFECT drummer for The Beach Boys! Simple, sure, but he HIT the drums and played with great feeling!

[Jon Stebbins]

BTW, was he the drummer on "It's About Time?"  I always assumed it was him...with all those crazy snare fills.

You're sort of right...Earl Palmer played the drums on Its About Time, Dennis Dragon played the timbales, congas or whatever the added percussion was.