Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread!

[LeeDempsey]

Dude's also claiming Brian wrote the "backing track" too. His source ? "It's my educated guess..." - well sh*t, who am I to argue with such cast-iron proof. ?

TOKENHIPPIE is an eccentric long-time collector named Richard Rochford aka Rich Rockford aka Richard Ford.  He's claimed over the past 30 years that Brian actually produced a number of Gary Usher and Jan Berry cuts.  Now if you were to listen to the tracks to "She Rides With Me" and "He Don't Love Me" back-to-back, you can hear some similarities (e.g. guitar run through a Leslie unit), but there is no documentation to suggest that Brian produced the latter.

However, Marilyn did confirm to me a number of years ago that the Honeys are singing backup.

Lee

[jiggy22]

Has there ever been a concert that Mike wasn't able to perform at? They've done over 5,000 shows, I imagine he'd maybe get sick or something at least once.

I know there was one concert in ~1970 where Mike was sick/hospitalized, so Brian filled in for him for the show.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Has there ever been a concert that Mike wasn't able to perform at? They've done over 5,000 shows, I imagine he'd maybe get sick or something at least once.

He missed some shows in 1970 when he had a nervous breakdown.  Brian filled in.  He also missed some shows in 1990 to play with his Endless Summer band in Japan.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Has there ever been a concert that Mike wasn't able to perform at? They've done over 5,000 shows, I imagine he'd maybe get sick or something at least once.

Well over 6,000 actually, and he's missed something like 25. They're all noted at 10452.

[bringahorseinhere?]

Mike Love is a machine.  How many others can add that feather to their cap.  Touring icon.

[alf wiedersehen]

Has there ever been a concert that Mike wasn't able to perform at? They've done over 5,000 shows, I imagine he'd maybe get sick or something at least once.

I know there was one concert in ~1970 where Mike was sick/hospitalized, so Brian filled in for him for the show.

Too bad the Seattle recording sounds terrible.

[Andrew G. Doe]

OK, so 28 29 then.  

1969
May 2  - University of Oklahoma, Norman OK (trouble getting back from India)

1970
February 26 - Gonzaga University, Spokane WA [2 shows] (hospitalised)
February 27 - Queen Elizabeth Theatre, Vancouver BC, Canada [2 shows] (hospitalised)
February 28 - Opera House, Seattle WA [2 shows] (hospitalised)

March 1 - Civic Auditorium, Portland OR [2 shows] (hospitalised)

1983
June 15  - Broome County Veteran’s Memorial Arena, Binghamton NY (strep throat)
June 16 - Civic Center, Erie PA (strep throat)
June 17 - Timber Wolf Amphitheatre, King’s Island OH (strep throat)
June 18 - Blossom Music Center, Cleveland OH (strep throat)
June 19 - Saratoga Springs NY (strep throat)

1985
May  4 - Hi Corbett Field, Tucson AZ (?)
July 26 - Kingswood Music Theater, Toronto ON, Canada (?)

1986
December 17 - Sullivan Arena, Anchorage AK (? - Brian stepped in)

1990
May 28 - Atlanta-Fulton County  Stadium, Atlanta GA [postgame] (in Japan with ESBB)
May 28 - Hoover Stadium, Hoover AL [postgame] (in Japan with ESBB)
May 31 - Timber Wolf Ampitheater, Kings Island OH (in Japan with ESBB)
May 31 - Clipper's Stadium, Columbus OH (in Japan with ESBB)

June 1 - Cardinal Stadium, Louisville KY [postgame] (in Japan with ESBB)
June 2 - Molson Park, Barrie ON, Canada (in Japan with ESBB)
June 2 - Cleveland Stadium, Cleveland OH (in Japan with ESBB)
June 3 - Pilot Field, Buffalo NY (in Japan with ESBB)
June 29 - Canadian Olympic Park, Calgary AB, Canada (?)
June 30 - Evergreen Park, Saskatoon SK, Canada (?)

July 1 - Centennial Park, Grand Falls NL, Canada (?)
July 2 - Montreal QC, Canada (?)

[bringahorseinhere?]

http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/7-4-90.html
does anybody know of any video available online of this show.  I'm interested to know the vibe and performance of the show since Brian was
a part of this show.  As the poster acknowledges, this may have been one of the last shows Brian was with the group live until 1996.
seems like it may have been an interesting show.

[Bittersweet-Sanity]

http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/7-4-90.html
does anybody know of any video available online of this show.  I'm interested to know the vibe and performance of the show since Brian was
a part of this show.  As the poster acknowledges, this may have been one of the last shows Brian was with the group live until 1996.
seems like it may have been an interesting show.

I do believe that show is available as a bootleg dvd. The Boys did 2 shows that day. Here's a news report (w/ some words from Brian) on the one in Falmouth, MA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jmUNTbGGJM. Here's an article from someone who was at the Presque-Isle show http://www.themaineedge.com/buzz/music/mike-love-is-a-fatophobe-and-other-bizarre-beach-boys-facts "In the middle of “Good Vibrations,” Brian got up from his keyboard and began to wander around the stage, only to be guided back to his seat by his psychologist, Eugene Landy. The concert turned out to be Wilson’s last with The Beach Boys for five years."

[bringahorseinhere?]

that's a great bit of footage and Brian looks in pretty good shape in those interviews too, even if under the influence still of the good Dr.
he does not seem as messed up looking as the 25th anniversary concert from a few years back.  thankyou for the link, that was great to see

[JK]

Dude's also claiming Brian wrote the "backing track" too. His source ? "It's my educated guess..." - well sh*t, who am I to argue with such cast-iron proof. ?

TOKENHIPPIE is an eccentric long-time collector named Richard Rochford aka Rich Rockford aka Richard Ford.  He's claimed over the past 30 years that Brian actually produced a number of Gary Usher and Jan Berry cuts.  Now if you were to listen to the tracks to "She Rides With Me" and "He Don't Love Me" back-to-back, you can hear some similarities (e.g. guitar run through a Leslie unit), but there is no documentation to suggest that Brian produced the latter.

However, Marilyn did confirm to me a number of years ago that the Honeys are singing backup.

Lee

Thanks for the information, Lee. I've come across that name before, now I think of it...

[bringahorseinhere?]

why and how come over all these years 'pet sounds' has become the classic it is, why there have never been any vinyl picture discs been produced?

[HeyJude]

http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/7-4-90.html
does anybody know of any video available online of this show.  I'm interested to know the vibe and performance of the show since Brian was
a part of this show.  As the poster acknowledges, this may have been one of the last shows Brian was with the group live until 1996.
seems like it may have been an interesting show.

The Cape Cod show from 7/4/90 exists as, if I recall correctly, a complete audience-shot camcorder video. Brian's participation is on par with his circa 1980 performances. Indeed, he literally fills the same small lead vocal spots he did in 1980, singing the bridge to "Surfer Girl" and the opening to "Sloop John B" and not much else. In other words, the novelty of seeing him on stage vastly overshadowed any musical contributions.

I think the last time Brian was at all heavily involved in a BB show prior to 2012 was his 1981-82 run of shows filling some of Carl's lead vocal spots.

[You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered]

OK, so 28 29 then.  

1969
May 2  - University of Oklahoma, Norman OK (trouble getting back from India)

1970
February 26 - Gonzaga University, Spokane WA [2 shows] (hospitalised)
February 27 - Queen Elizabeth Theatre, Vancouver BC, Canada [2 shows] (hospitalised)
February 28 - Opera House, Seattle WA [2 shows] (hospitalised)

March 1 - Civic Auditorium, Portland OR [2 shows] (hospitalised)

1983
June 15  - Broome County Veteran’s Memorial Arena, Binghamton NY (strep throat)
June 16 - Civic Center, Erie PA (strep throat)
June 17 - Timber Wolf Amphitheatre, King’s Island OH (strep throat)
June 18 - Blossom Music Center, Cleveland OH (strep throat)
June 19 - Saratoga Springs NY (strep throat)

1985
May  4 - Hi Corbett Field, Tucson AZ (?)
July 26 - Kingswood Music Theater, Toronto ON, Canada (?)

1986
December 17 - Sullivan Arena, Anchorage AK (? - Brian stepped in)

1990
May 28 - Atlanta-Fulton County  Stadium, Atlanta GA [postgame] (in Japan with ESBB)
May 28 - Hoover Stadium, Hoover AL [postgame] (in Japan with ESBB)
May 31 - Timber Wolf Ampitheater, Kings Island OH (in Japan with ESBB)
May 31 - Clipper's Stadium, Columbus OH (in Japan with ESBB)

June 1 - Cardinal Stadium, Louisville KY [postgame] (in Japan with ESBB)
June 2 - Molson Park, Barrie ON, Canada (in Japan with ESBB)
June 2 - Cleveland Stadium, Cleveland OH (in Japan with ESBB)
June 3 - Pilot Field, Buffalo NY (in Japan with ESBB)
June 29 - Canadian Olympic Park, Calgary AB, Canada (?)
June 30 - Evergreen Park, Saskatoon SK, Canada (?)

July 1 - Centennial Park, Grand Falls NL, Canada (?)
July 2 - Montreal QC, Canada (?)

29 out of over 6,000 is damn impressive, maybe all that TM actually was worth something.

[HeyJude]

During the time they were actually "in" the band, do we know if Al, Carl, or Bruce missed that many gigs either? Discounting Al's hiatus in 1962-63, and Carl's 1981-82, and Bruce's 1972-78, did they really miss that many shows during their tenures?

I know Mike, Carl, and Al all missed shows in 1990 for instance.

Another reason the touring BBs were weird, and why their live show was probably seen by some as more disposable; they'd actually do gigs with a primary member out. Many if not most bands would postpone or reschedule, but the BBs would go on if one guy was missing. 

[the captain]

Another reason the touring BBs were weird, and why their live show was probably seen by some as more disposable; they'd actually do gigs with a primary member out. Many if not most bands would postpone or reschedule, but the BBs would go on if one guy was missing. 

I'll speculate on why that is (that they'd go on without a key member).

- First, in many rock bands, the band is a self-contained unit of frontman, guitarist, bassist, drummer, etc. Each member is essential to the show, more or less. But the Beach Boys had backing musicians to more or less cover the entirety (or most of) the instrumental foundation. So right there, the show can go on as long as there are vocals.

- Then, on the vocal front, while each guy was at least occasionally a lead singer, by definition that also means each guy wasn't THE lead singer much of the time. The supplemental musicians could and did supply additional background (and occasionally lead) vocals. And the other key members could of course swap leads, which they did even when everyone was present (such as on Rhonda).

- To top it off, they weren't as individually known as a lot of rock musicians may be, personality-wise. Mike would probably be the most notable absence for a casual fan from the touring act.

With those three factors combined, it was probably easier for them to go on with the show regardless of a single missing member. Or even a couple missing members. An ensemble group lacking individually identifiable superstars with backing musicians = the show can indeed go on.

[HeyJude]

Another reason the touring BBs were weird, and why their live show was probably seen by some as more disposable; they'd actually do gigs with a primary member out. Many if not most bands would postpone or reschedule, but the BBs would go on if one guy was missing.  

I'll speculate on why that is (that they'd go on without a key member).

- First, in many rock bands, the band is a self-contained unit of frontman, guitarist, bassist, drummer, etc. Each member is essential to the show, more or less. But the Beach Boys had backing musicians to more or less cover the entirety (or most of) the instrumental foundation. So right there, the show can go on as long as there are vocals.

- Then, on the vocal front, while each guy was at least occasionally a lead singer, by definition that also means each guy wasn't THE lead singer much of the time. The supplemental musicians could and did supply additional background (and occasionally lead) vocals. And the other key members could of course swap leads, which they did even when everyone was present (such as on Rhonda).

- To top it off, they weren't as individually known as a lot of rock musicians may be, personality-wise. Mike would probably be the most notable absence for a casual fan from the touring act.

With those three factors combined, it was probably easier for them to go on with the show regardless of a single missing member. Or even a couple missing members. An ensemble group lacking individually identifiable superstars with backing musicians = the show can indeed go on.

Yes, they definitely always proved the show *could* go on. Even now, the touring BB's *could* do a show without Mike or Bruce even.

I actually wish a soundboard recording existed of one of the Mike-less shows just to hear a good recording of Al singing a bunch of those leads. I've heard a pretty awful audience recording of the 1990 Ontario show where Al sings nearly all of Mike's leads (Gerry Beckley does Mike's part on "Sloop"), and it's an interesting variation.

I think another huge factor in doing gigs with a member missing is that they chose to *incessantly* tour. Touring during most of the year, every year, meant it was harder for members to avoid having to miss a gig for one reason or another due to short-term health issues, or scheduling conflicts (even Mike for whatever reason just chose to book a block of "Endless Summer Band" gigs for Japan in 1990 instead of doing actual BB gigs.) A heavy tour schedule in turn also would make it harder to re-schedule a show for a later date in the same year.

They did manage to keep at least three or more  "core" (meaning the corporate members plus Bruce and Dave) members at every gig up until 1999 when David Marks left, perhaps not 100% coincidentally around the time Mike locked in an exclusive license. Even when all the Wilsons were gone at a few shows in early 1982, Mike, Al, and Bruce were on stage.

[Marty Castillo]

Another reason the touring BBs were weird, and why their live show was probably seen by some as more disposable; they'd actually do gigs with a primary member out. Many if not most bands would postpone or reschedule, but the BBs would go on if one guy was missing.  

I'll speculate on why that is (that they'd go on without a key member).

- First, in many rock bands, the band is a self-contained unit of frontman, guitarist, bassist, drummer, etc. Each member is essential to the show, more or less. But the Beach Boys had backing musicians to more or less cover the entirety (or most of) the instrumental foundation. So right there, the show can go on as long as there are vocals.

- Then, on the vocal front, while each guy was at least occasionally a lead singer, by definition that also means each guy wasn't THE lead singer much of the time. The supplemental musicians could and did supply additional background (and occasionally lead) vocals. And the other key members could of course swap leads, which they did even when everyone was present (such as on Rhonda).

- To top it off, they weren't as individually known as a lot of rock musicians may be, personality-wise. Mike would probably be the most notable absence for a casual fan from the touring act.

With those three factors combined, it was probably easier for them to go on with the show regardless of a single missing member. Or even a couple missing members. An ensemble group lacking individually identifiable superstars with backing musicians = the show can indeed go on.

Yes, they definitely always proved the show *could* go on. Even now, the touring BB's *could* do a show without Mike or Bruce even.

I actually wish a soundboard recording existed of one of the Mike-less shows just to hear a good recording of Al singing a bunch of those leads. I've heard a pretty awful audience recording of the 1990 Ontario show where Al sings nearly all of Mike's leads (Gerry Beckley does Mike's part on "Sloop"), and it's an interesting variation.

I think another huge factor in doing gigs with a member missing is that they chose to *incessantly* tour. Touring during most of the year, every year, meant it was harder for members to avoid having to miss a gig for one reason or another due to short-term health issues, or scheduling conflicts (even Mike for whatever reason just chose to book a block of "Endless Summer Band" gigs for Japan in 1990 instead of doing actual BB gigs.) A heavy tour schedule in turn also would make it harder to re-schedule a show for a later date in the same year.

They did manage to keep at least three or more  "core" (meaning the corporate members plus Bruce and Dave) members at every gig up until 1999 when David Marks left, perhaps not 100% coincidentally around the time Mike locked in an exclusive license. Even when all the Wilsons were gone at a few shows in early 1982, Mike, Al, and Bruce were on stage.

Great insight from both of you. I think the bands history has everything to do with it. If you can replace Brian Wilson in the Beach Boys, you can certainly replace any of the other members. The quality of the product certainly goes down and that is lamentable.

[ChicagoAnn]

OK, so 28 29 then.  

1969
May 2  - University of Oklahoma, Norman OK (trouble getting back from India)

1970
February 26 - Gonzaga University, Spokane WA [2 shows] (hospitalised)
February 27 - Queen Elizabeth Theatre, Vancouver BC, Canada [2 shows] (hospitalised)
February 28 - Opera House, Seattle WA [2 shows] (hospitalised)

March 1 - Civic Auditorium, Portland OR [2 shows] (hospitalised)

1983
June 15  - Broome County Veteran’s Memorial Arena, Binghamton NY (strep throat)
June 16 - Civic Center, Erie PA (strep throat)
June 17 - Timber Wolf Amphitheatre, King’s Island OH (strep throat)
June 18 - Blossom Music Center, Cleveland OH (strep throat)
June 19 - Saratoga Springs NY (strep throat)

1985
May  4 - Hi Corbett Field, Tucson AZ (?)
July 26 - Kingswood Music Theater, Toronto ON, Canada (?)

1986
December 17 - Sullivan Arena, Anchorage AK (? - Brian stepped in)

1990
May 28 - Atlanta-Fulton County  Stadium, Atlanta GA [postgame] (in Japan with ESBB)
May 28 - Hoover Stadium, Hoover AL [postgame] (in Japan with ESBB)
May 31 - Timber Wolf Ampitheater, Kings Island OH (in Japan with ESBB)
May 31 - Clipper's Stadium, Columbus OH (in Japan with ESBB)

June 1 - Cardinal Stadium, Louisville KY [postgame] (in Japan with ESBB)
June 2 - Molson Park, Barrie ON, Canada (in Japan with ESBB)
June 2 - Cleveland Stadium, Cleveland OH (in Japan with ESBB)
June 3 - Pilot Field, Buffalo NY (in Japan with ESBB)
June 29 - Canadian Olympic Park, Calgary AB, Canada (?)
June 30 - Evergreen Park, Saskatoon SK, Canada (?)

July 1 - Centennial Park, Grand Falls NL, Canada (?)
July 2 - Montreal QC, Canada (?)

That is astonishing.  Amazing stamina and work ethic. Probably more rewarding and fun than sheet metal work. 

[JK]

OK, so 28 29 then.  

That is astonishing.  Amazing stamina and work ethic. Probably more rewarding and fun than sheet metal work. 

For one bleary-eyed moment I thought you were referring to Andrew's legwork.

[HeyJude]

Not to diminish Mike's work ethic at all; I don't think anyone questions the leg work he puts in. But I would imagine a little bit of it is a "possession is 9/10 of the law" sort of thing. Mike was probably nervous, as most people would be, taking time off and establishing any possibility that they could do a fully successful show or tour without him.

Reminds me of the story one of the guys from "Boston" told about a late 70s show where writer/guitarist/mastermind Tom Scholz hurt his hand or arm or something to where he couldn't come out and play the encore, and the band did it without him and the crowd still went nuts and didn't seem to terribly care. As someone else in the band alleged, Scholz freaked out and wanted everyone to agree they could never do a song on stage without him present.

Obviously, Mike never did this and did indeed miss a few little strings of shows. I don't know of any evidence that he tried to get the guys to not do shows without him; and it appears as though in the 1990 case it wasn't like an illness or anything, but a choice to book "ESBB" gigs.

But by everyone's account he's very possessive of the touring band, so he has an extra motivation to always turn up. And course, by the late 90s, he was booking the shows himself (not literally, but it was/is his company running the tour and licensing the name) and could pick and choose when not to do shows if he wanted to be somewhere else doing something else.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Obviously, Mike never did this and did indeed miss a few little strings of shows. I don't know of any evidence that he tried to get the guys to not do shows without him; and it appears as though in the 1990 case it wasn't like an illness or anything, but a choice to book "ESBB" gigs.

No idea if he did what you say, but in 1976 a string of 15 shows from September 16th to October 8th were cancelled due to assorted illness, according to a press report of the time. Mike later stated he had hepatitis .

[HeyJude]

The 1990 string of shows Mike missed still holds a little bit of mystery for me. Obviously, we don't know whether the BB dates or the ESBB dates were booked first, but it seems even if the ESBB dates were booked first, Mike would have to know it could easily conflict with BB dates, as by June they're usually getting into heavy touring.

Did some promoter in Japan just offer a butt-ton of money? Just seems weird Mike would miss out on a string of near-summer shows. Then again, it also looks like he may have strategically chosen to miss some lower-profile BB gigs, including several in Canada.

Stranger, I recall reading someone's report (perhaps Emdeeh?) of the "Mike-less" May 1990 Atlanta show that reported Jeff Foskett was present and sang most of Mike's leads. But was Foskett still part of Mike's "ESBB" at that point? I have some video of some Japan TV stuff the ESBB did in 1990, but I honestly can't remember if Foskett was in that lineup. I want to say no, but I'm not sure.

The June 2, 1990 Barrie, Ontario show is the only extant recording from this string of Mike-less shows that I know of, and Foskett isn't there. Al sings most of Mike's leads, and I think Matt Jardine steps in and sings the falsetto parts.

Foskett did return at some point, as his last gig, captured on video, was the July 4, 1990 show. I always assumed this may well have meant both Mike and Foskett were gone doing gigs with ESBB. But that wouldn't explain why Foskett was at some Mike-less shows and not others. So maybe other stuff was going on with Foskett.

[Fire Wind]

The touring band could perform shows without Mike, but I would assume the show would be cancelled were he ill on a particular day.  Or is that a dumb assumption?

[wantsomecorn]

The touring band could perform shows without Mike, but I would assume the show would be cancelled were he ill on a particular day.  Or is that a dumb assumption?

Well, it would pretty much just be a cover band with Bruce as a special guest.

On a related note: has Bruce ever performed any solo shows? Even during his years away from the band in the mid-70s?