BEACH BOYS PBS 'AMERICAN MASTERS' SPECIAL IS IN THE WORKS

[the captain]

While some new footage of old interviews (or new interviews) would doubtlessly be interesting in spots, I wouldn't be too excited about another standard-length doc, either. Beatles Anthology style, though, now we'd be talking.

[SG7]

While some new footage of old interviews (or new interviews) would doubtlessly be interesting in spots, I wouldn't be too excited about another standard-length doc, either. Beatles Anthology style, though, now we'd be talking.

Yeah I'd love something like that too!

[Wirestone]

Four quick points --

1.) Documentary or reunion or whatever, Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, Dave, Blondie, Ricky are grown men. Whatever they or their management decide is fine by me. I just hope a doc or reunion is good.

2.) No, I don't have insider information about PBS. But on its own, the article is Mike speculating about the future. It's good to know what he's thinking, but it still reads as speculation.

3.) "Unplugged in Paradise." "Club Kokomo." "BBs Central." I didn't make them up. I wish I had. I will say that Mike's promises about setlists and orchestral shows have been borne out, and the results from all accounts have been excellent.

4.) Yes, Mike is saying all the right things. But let's not pretend that he and the BB brand don't have something to gain from Brian participating.

[Jon Stebbins]

Jon -- Be that as it may, it's not reflected in the article you asked us to read. The only source quoted is Mike. There are not even any anonymous sources from PBS. The only source that I'm able to scrutinize is Mike and his comments. And nothing he says suggests a deal has been finalized -- only that it's possible.

Right... and your post obviously alluded that the possibility of a PBS special (being floated by Mike in this particular article) wasn't necessarily real BECAUSE no PBS person was quoted etc.. etc...  You were even going out on the limb to say it was not happening....remember? Since I KNOW that it IS real and that your point was not correct, I shared that info with you. PBS has reached out to the BB's regarding a special, I can confirm that from multiple BB's sources other than Mike. Whether it comes together or not, whether it is good, etc.. etc... are separate issues. Done deal? No. Not even close. But I can confirm that what Mike says in the article about the fact that a PBS special is being offered is true. Got it?

[Wilsonista]

My question is this: why would Mike talk to the media about it BEFORE anything is finalized?  I thought the rule of thumb in entertainment was that you don't reveal much (if anything) about a future project until  there is a certainty of it happening.

Mike's and the band's track record on making good on grandiose projects is not that good ("we're sure to sell a million units in January 1967" pretty much set that template).  All Clay was doing was pointing that out. Rightly so too.

[Wilsonista]

Right... and your post obviously alluded that the possibility of a PBS special (being floated by Mike in this particular article) wasn't necessarily real BECAUSE no PBS person was quoted etc.. [/quote]

Another question. Why wasn't someone from the network  quoted in the article? Honestly, Jon, if you hadn't said anything in this thread I also would have asssumed the same thing Clay did. Anybody with a healthy sense of skepticism wouls have too.

[Jon Stebbins]

Honestly, Jon, if you hadn't said anything in this thread I also would have asssumed the same thing Clay did. Anybody with a healthy sense of skepticism wouls have too.

You're welcome. I try to share what I know when its relevant.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Mike's and the band's track record on making good on grandiose projects is not that good ("we're sure to sell a million units in January 1967" pretty much set that template).  

Rob... don't credit something said on a Capitol salesmen's promo disc over 42 years ago to Mike or the band. Get the facts right, please.

[smile-holland]

In 1990 Marks contributed to Brian Wilson's unreleased second solo album Sweet Insanity.

Not really on topic, but that's something I never knew before.

In Brian's "autobiography", there is a photo of David and Brian together in the studio from '90.

Never noticed that before, must have overlooked it. Will check it out. Thanks!

[Nicko]

I will say this about the Lovester-his interviews or comments of late seem to be much more polite than in years past. You know, back in the day, he'd say something like 'I was ripped off by the Wilson clan. They've deserved everything they've gotten'. Not exactly like that, but you get the point. He seems much more gracious these days.

To be fair, when he made some of those comments he had been ripped off.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

One thing I've come to know, after reading this board for a few years, is that Jon Stebbins NEVER involves himself in idle speculation, gossip or trivia.

If he shares information with us (which I greatly appreciate), there is validity and substance to it.

Too many times we 'bite the hand that feeds us' (sorry AGD) but we are blessed to have so many 'people in the know' posting here.

[MBE]

I just want SOMETHING to happen for the anniversary. The Beach Boys need as much attention as the Beatles get -actually I wish the public perception of the two bands was reversed....sorry, but it's true.

Nothing to be sorry about. I think Sean Lennon shares your view!

[Pretty Funky]

The question was asked why was Mike talking to the media before the special has been finalized. I guess it is to get interest in a 50th going for fans of the band and the message may flow on to Brian and his people.
It has often been mentioned how Brians band are such fans of his, and rightly so, and are well aware of his problems. I would like to hear how they feel about a reunion. I like to think they would be supportive.

Brians band have helped him with his stage fright, his mental health, SMiLe, and writers block. Big obstacles for him that they have worked through together. The last obstacle for me is this. A recent story had Brian saying of The Beach Boys, more or less,  'they don't like me that much'. Now that's sad he feels that way.

I think a band so in tune with Brian would love to help him again if possible. In the last few years we have seen Brian and Al together and just weeks ago Mike and Jeff Foskett at a informal singalong. Mike and Brian had 'a meeting' to hash out the 'Warmth Of The Sun' tracks.(a 'meeting' with your cousin for goodness sakes!!!). Dave and Al have performed together plus Mike, Bruce and Dave. Its a pretty close knit community still.

A PBS deal I suspect would not be a big money maker for anyone. Very few, if any new fans. No new interest in the group but maybe a broadening in the minds of the public of the depth of material the band has if coupled with a Anthology album and/ or DVD.

But if a 'reunion' happened, and I mean anything from a full length summer tour to 5 guys going out to dinner once, or anything in between, I believe the biggest winner would be the guy who started it all. Brian himself. Would Brians band not be supporting him?

[Wirestone]

Well, I think that depends on how one views the Beach Boys. Are they

1.) A true group of friends and collaborators

or

2.) A vocal group that Brian Wilson assembled to perform his compositions, a group which -- when the going got rough for Brian -- made it clear he wasn't wanted (except when record contracts depended on him)

?

I'm not saying either one is true (or false), but I would venture that Brian and his folks lean toward number two.

[SG7]

I'd also like to add in the interesting timing of this. When Brian is recording a solo record. Just a reflection, not an opinion is this someway to defer anything Brian is doing now? IF it is in that light, then I would not be in support of such a thing.

[endofposts]

The timing of it is that there's only going to be one 50th anniversary for the founding of the Beach Boys.  I think Brian's solo career can take a short breather for that; not like he's going to sell many copies.  He's toured as a solo plenty of times. I don't think any reunion would involve a lot of tour dates, should any tour be planned at all.  They should do something.  Brian seems to express different opinions at different times.  I just hope Melinda Wilson will have the wisdom to see some kind of commemorative appearance would be helpful to Brian and his career at this point.  I know a lot of people don't like seeing Melinda criticized, but she does seem to be the one with final say.  If she thinks Mike or any of those guys might take advantage of or mistreat Brian, all she has to do is be there and hover, like Yoko Ono or something.

[Pretty Funky]

Well, I think that depends on how one views the Beach Boys. Are they

1.) A true group of friends and collaborators

or

2.) A vocal group that Brian Wilson assembled to perform his compositions, a group which -- when the going got rough for Brian -- made it clear he wasn't wanted (except when record contracts depended on him)

?

I'm not saying either one is true (or false), but I would venture that Brian and his folks lean toward number two.

...or 3) One of the worlds most well known rock bands, perhaps the best known vocal group, who should forgive and move on while they are still alive rather than stirring up old issues.

[TdHabib]

Just to defend a friend of the board, I'm pretty sure one of the reasons behind Clay's viewpoint is that he very recently interviewed Brian who very forcefully said he did not want to participate in any sort of reunion.

Now, it's been a LOOONNNGGG time since I've trusted what a Beach Boys has said at face value. Remember when Al said his album would be done soon. Riiiiggghhhttt. When Al said the group would reunite in London in 2006 for Pet Sounds shows. Riiiggghhht. Need I go into what Brian has said over the years? Or the developments people have mentioned Mike mentioned?

The thing is there is a hell of a lot of bridges to cross before this is anywhere near finished. I think we call all agree on that. That PBS has approached the Beach Boys is a great step in the right direction. I hope that the finished product will include interviews with all of the band. But I have a lots of doubts about any sort of live performance; among the last times Brian played with the Beach Boys in 1996 (Nashville) I know he barely participated and I know via Catch a Wave there was a lot of friction between the band then; the last time Brian played with Al we know how that ended; I know David most likely won't play live with the Beach Boys anymore; and finally the last time the Beach Boys were in the same studio together recording original, new material it did not end well. I'm just afraid with all of the progress Brian has made since 1999, it might come crashing down.

[jimmyboy]

If Brain doesn't collaborate in any way for a 50th anniversary special, he will definitely lose some of my sympathy.

I'll bet he will lose a lot of sleep over your effing "sympathy"....

[SG7]

I think some people just have to get passed that the fractions weren't always there, the BB were together for a long time and the fact they got to 50 years and their catalog is still being played is a testament to their legend and so why not honor it? I have to disagree about Brian losing progress if he does this. If he has been able to see them before (ie capitol rooftop) I think it would be okay. He's come a long way from 1999 as well.

[Wirestone]

TD -- I appreciate your kind words. I may well have been too caustic in my first responses; clearly Jon and Howie are upstanding guys.

But I admit to a bit of frustration. Mike has been saying thinks like this consistently for the past year or so. The paper I work for ran an interview with him this summer, in fact.

"There's been some dialogue (about new material) between us," Love said. "In a couple of years it will be our 50th anniversary as a band, and I think it would be really cool if we all did something together to mark that."

And when I asked folks here what they would be interested in knowing from Brian, reunion talk topped the list. I asked him not only if he was interested in working with Mike (he wasn't) but what he thought of the Beach Boys ("we don't get along very good.") This was in October. It cast a chill over the interview, too -- he showed more emotion there than on any other subject.

Given that Brian just had one of his best solo tours, given that he has an exciting two-album record deal, and given that he has a devoted and supportive band now -- I guess I just don't see why a reunion with the Beach Boys is so important, beyond inevitable chronology. It's easy for us to say "let the past be the past" -- but how easy is it for Brian to say that? (And let's not forget -- Mike was suing Brian as recently as two years ago.)

[Jason]

I love the general tone of this thread.

"Michael is announcing something before it's set in stone."
"Michael's trying to manipulate Brian."

Is there really that much of a density within the fanbase? If Brian and Melinda's track record is anything to be believed (and we all know that questioning them equals a permaban in Brianista land), Brian will be right up there with Michael if this thing is seen through. Don't think for one minute that Brian's allergic to the almighty dollar.

Michael is a businessman. Brian is a businessman. Both of them know how the other works. Michael has his track record and so does Brian. Neither one of them is stupid, and presuming that this is just another attempt by Michael to get to Brian is precisely that - stupid.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

All I've been reading is how bad this would be for Brian if it doesn't turn out well. However...think about how good it would be for Brian if it DOES turn out well. Look at what happened when he released BWPS...that did him a world of good, yet beforehand for decades he wouldn't even want to discuss it. I for one would like to see him try.

[Wilsonista]

Mike's and the band's track record on making good on grandiose projects is not that good ("we're sure to sell a million units in January 1967" pretty much set that template).  

Rob... don't credit something said on a Capitol salesmen's promo disc over 42 years ago to Mike or the band. Get the facts right, please.

Who wrote the exact words of the promo is immaterial because it came out under the auspices of the band. My "misquote" does not invalidate my point because the group's history is littered with bright ideas that never came to fruition. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

Is there really that much of a density within the fanbase?

I think there continues to be a failure to look at both sides of the story/situation, and an overall loss of touch with reality.

There was a recent thread about Brian performing "The Monster Mash" in concert. A YouTube clip was linked; I watched it. Brian sang, not even the lead vocal, but the part "it caught on in a flash" / "it was a graveyard smash", in a very awkward voice. The clip was followed with a few posts which described Brian's performance as "amazing" and "brilliant". I just shook my head. My twelve year-old nephew could've arranged that song on his keyboard. My six year-old nephew could've sung Brian's part - more Bobby "Boris" Pickett-like. We're talking about "The Monster Mash" folks. And Brian was praised for including the song in his set, while, for years, the same people praising Brian were probably the same ones criticizing Mike Love for doing the same thing, or the same older songs.

Then came the "See This Tour" thread. Somebody commented that Brian's medication seems to finally be straightened out. I saw it a different way....Brian came out on stage and was using profanity. Brian was reading "conversation" and banter with his bandmates - OFF THE TELEPROMPTER! (It's funny, but Dr. Landy used to be criticized for doing the same thing with cue cards.) Before Brian would perform a particular song, he would criticize it and say that he didn't want to sing it. While attempting to play his keyboard, Brian would lose his place and flub the lyrics. And now, instead of singing some parts, he's speaking them. I saw the recent YouTube clips; I hear nothing different than the last 6-7 years. One poster stated that his highlight was hearing "Custom Machine"; oh, how things have changed....I work in the mental health field, and, if I observed the above type of behavior(s), I would not assume that the medication was working appropriately. Actually, I would suggest that he submit to a period of observation and have his meds thoroughly checked.

And now this thread...Once again, posters are questioning why anybody would want a Beach Boys' reunion and why Brian would want to join it. Really? Who would want a Beach Boys' reunion and why would Brian want to join it? We are fans, short for fanatical. I understand that. There are also some advocates for Brian on this board. I understand that, too. But, please, look at the reality of the situation. Imagine a poll of all Beach Boys fans in the world, from the casual who own a "Greatest Hits" CD  to the die-hards like us. And ask them if they would like to see the Beach Boys do a reunion concert, or album, or tour, or film a documentary, or anything. Wouldn't it be overwhelmingly "yes". Well, that's who would want to see a reunion since you asked. The fans. That alone is not enough for a reunion to happen, but it is a reason. I won't waste your time listing reasons why it would be beneficiary to the individual guys; you don't want to hear it anyway.  

We will never know the truth if Brian would like to do a reunion with the Beach Boys because Brian does not tell the truth. We can speculate both ways, but we will never know for sure, unless and until it happens, and then we probably won't know how he feels anyway. I'll repeat again that there are two sides, and I'm not "sold" that Brian could potentially lose so much and be hurt so badly by reuniting with his cousin and friends. What does he really have to lose? He ain't selling many records, he ain't selling many tickets, and we have debated endlessly whether he even enjoys touring with this band (and that's nothing against his band). He's not gonna get hurt; Melinda won't allow it. Yeah, some people were knocked out by TLOS, but some people weren't. Sure, signing a contract for two new albums is note worthy, but, for many, another two "cover albums" is disappointing, or unfulfilling.  

And finally, do you remember these? "There's been some talk about Phil Spector and myself doing an album togther...", "I'm gonna do a rock and roll album next...", "Smile will never come out...", "I love touring....", and Mike speaking about the rooftop meeting in 2006 (I'm paraphrasing), "Brian talked to me about working on some songs"....