Thanks Rolling Stone

[Andrew G. Doe]

Take that up with David Beard and ESQ, because that's where I read it, Wilbur.

Well... in that case, they're as wrong as you are. Facts is facts - the first BB single post HoF rant went to #1, and the 'followup' didn't happen for over a year, by which point pretty much everyone had forgotten. "Still Cruisin'" tanked because it flat out wasn't a good song - the wonder is it charted at all.

[Dancing Bear]

Hey, it's always a good idea to google a bit when posting about facts, isn't it? 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Facts are great. Very useful. I love 'em... and iffn I can't find the ones I want, hey, I just make 'em up. 

[Dave in KC]

Take that up with David Beard and ESQ, because that's where I read it, Wilbur.

Well... in that case, they're as wrong as you are. Facts is facts - the first BB single post HoF rant went to #1, and the 'followup' didn't happen for over a year, by which point pretty much everyone had forgotten. "Still Cruisin'" tanked because it flat out wasn't a good song - the wonder is it charted at all.

Saw Mike and Bruce perform Still Cruisin' last year and was thankful that they reminded me how much I always liked this song.
"Party All Summer Long!"

[Wilsonista]

Facts are great. Very useful. I love 'em... and iffn I can't find the ones I want, hey, I just make 'em up. 

The magazine was challenged on that by a reader who dished out the exact same chart stats as you. ESQ responded by stating that what I posted came from, as ESQ put it, "in the know".  Yes, it doesn't make chronilogical sense and on paper looks unlikely.  But this is the world of the Beach Boys - how many other things that have happened make sense. 

BTW, Kokomo was issued on Elecktra. SC and SNJ were on Capitol. Might it be possible that someone at Capitol might have buried those releases in retaliation?  Hell, the BB for the rest of their existence couldn't get a record deal without Brian.  Even after they scored the biggest hit of their career (and did so without any BW involvement), the labels wouldn't touch them without Brian.  Most acts when they achieve sucess are rewarded. The BB should have been rewarded for Kokomo but were (IMHO) ppunished by being forced to deliver something that they couldn't guarentee: Brian Wilson.

All of which happened after the BB were inducted into the RRHOF.

[Wirestone]

Well, aren't the RRHOF shows broadcast some months after the actual event?

[Wilsonista]

I think so. 

Everytime a retrospective on the RRHOF ceromonies are done, the Mike rant is always shown.  Just once, I'd like to see it not mentioned.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Facts are great. Very useful. I love 'em... and iffn I can't find the ones I want, hey, I just make 'em up. 

The magazine was challenged on that by a reader who dished out the exact same chart stats as you. ESQ responded by stating that what I posted came from, as ESQ put it, "in the know".  Yes, it doesn't make chronilogical sense and on paper looks unlikely.  But this is the world of the Beach Boys - how many other things that have happened make sense. 

BTW, Kokomo was issued on Elecktra. SC and SNJ were on Capitol. Might it be possible that someone at Capitol might have buried those releases in retaliation?  Hell, the BB for the rest of their existence couldn't get a record deal without Brian.  Even after they scored the biggest hit of their career (and did so without any BW involvement), the labels wouldn't touch them without Brian.  Most acts when they achieve sucess are rewarded. The BB should have been rewarded for Kokomo but were (IMHO) ppunished by being forced to deliver something that they couldn't guarentee: Brian Wilson.

All of which happened after the BB were inducted into the RRHOF.

Still Cruisin' (the album) was the band's biggest LP success since 15 Big Ones - #46, quickly going gold (and Brian was on it, albeit marginally). I don't think there's any conspiracy here - Capitol even sprung for videos for the 1989 singles. "Kokomo" was on Elektra purely because the soundtrack album was - the Capitol album deal came in the wake of "Kokomo"'s success. I don't see a major company signing someone just to bury them. Why ? Not impossible... but hugely unlikely.

[Alex]

"Still Cruisin'" tanked because it flat out wasn't a good song - the wonder is it charted at all.

Then how come crap like "My Humps" and "Soulja Boy" chart so high (in the US, anyway), and all the good acts (save for the old farts-Dylan, BW, U2, Springsteen, Macca, etc.) are relegated to "indie" or "underground" status??

[the captain]

Nobody is relegated to indie status. Indie refers to the type of label an act is on--independent labels. (Admittedly, plenty of indie labels are owned by majors, or have major label distribution.) But as for explaining away what you perceive as lack of quality of hits ... ignore it. That's life. Old people hate young people's music. People A hate People B's music. (People A then appropriate People B's music, which is another thing altogether.) But taste is taste. Labels try to guess, based on research and sales facts. Nobody--NOBODY--would claim that (if there is any such thing) objectively superior art is supported and does well. So forget it. Crap like "My Humps" charts high because people like it. "Still Cruisin" didn't because they didn't. (Hmm, young, attractive woman ... old, seemingly lecherous men ... go figure.)

[Andrew G. Doe]

"Still Cruisin'" tanked because it flat out wasn't a good song - the wonder is it charted at all.

Then how come crap like "My Humps" and "Soulja Boy" chart so high (in the US, anyway), and all the good acts (save for the old farts-Dylan, BW, U2, Springsteen, Macca, etc.) are relegated to "indie" or "underground" status??

Because these days, it's not about music, but image and looks. I heard Lady GaGa's new single the other day, and couldn't stop laughing - absolute and complete sh*t. Granted, she doesn't make it in the looks department either, but her image manipulation is exemplary.

[Sam_BFC]

'Just Dance' was pretty good

[Dr. Tim]

Following up on AGD's note, what does happen (and did happen in the 80s and 90s too) is that a band would be signed, then the A&R rep who signed them got fired.  So the person who would go to bat for the act would be gone and whoever took the account over would dither 'cos it wasn't their signing.   So the act, and the account, would wither and die, with the band's records locked in the company vault forever unless you could find your own $$ and buy it back.  Those stories are legion, easily verifiable, even legendary (Johnny Cash on Mercury).  And even if you had a certified hit you could get shat upon at follow-up time, ask Incubus, Joan Osborne, or Fiona Apple. On the indie front, see bands like the Ass Ponys.

[Wilsonista]

Following up on AGD's note, what does happen (and did happen in the 80s and 90s too) is that a band would be signed, then the A&R rep who signed them got fired.  So the person who would go to bat for the act would be gone and whoever took the account over would dither 'cos it wasn't their signing.   So the act, and the account, would wither and die, with the band's records locked in the company vault forever unless you could find your own $$ and buy it back.  Those stories are legion, easily verifiable, even legendary (Johnny Cash on Mercury).  And even if you had a certified hit you could get shat upon at follow-up time, ask Incubus, Joan Osborne, or Fiona Apple. On the indie front, see bands like the Ass Ponys.

Exactly. I'd be willing to bet that happened to the BB when they returned to Capitol.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Following up on AGD's note, what does happen (and did happen in the 80s and 90s too) is that a band would be signed, then the A&R rep who signed them got fired.  So the person who would go to bat for the act would be gone and whoever took the account over would dither 'cos it wasn't their signing.   So the act, and the account, would wither and die, with the band's records locked in the company vault forever unless you could find your own $$ and buy it back.  Those stories are legion, easily verifiable, even legendary (Johnny Cash on Mercury).  And even if you had a certified hit you could get shat upon at follow-up time, ask Incubus, Joan Osborne, or Fiona Apple. On the indie front, see bands like the Ass Ponys.

Exactly. I'd be willing to bet that happened to the BB when they returned to Capitol.

Quite possible, I'll agree. But that's not the same as the post-"Kokomo" singles bombing due to Mike's HoF rant, which was your original premise. Nor is it even close to your revised premise that someone at Capitol buried said singles "in retaliation". Can we have a little consistency here, please ? 

[Dancing Bear]

Uh, the Beach Boys had a fluke hit, and Capitol was smart and quick enough to sign them to release an album built around Kokomo. Simple as that. I think it was good business for the band and the label. Now, Capitol (quite rightfully) considered that was good enough. I think it has more to do with their knowledge that there wasn't another Kokomo waiting to happen than HoF rant consequences or a change of staff.

[the captain]

Because these days, it's not about music, but image and looks.

Come on, Andrew: it has always been about image and looks. Sure, television (and then MTV and the like) upped that angle, but let's not suggest The Good Ol' Days were all that different.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Because these days, it's not about music, but image and looks.

Come on, Andrew: it has always been about image and looks. Sure, television (and then MTV and the like) upped that angle, but let's not suggest The Good Ol' Days were all that different.

OK... but back in the day, musical ability also counted for a lot. Not now.

[southbay]

Facts are great. Very useful. I love 'em... and iffn I can't find the ones I want, hey, I just make 'em up. 

The magazine was challenged on that by a reader who dished out the exact same chart stats as you. ESQ responded by stating that what I posted came from, as ESQ put it, "in the know".  Yes, it doesn't make chronilogical sense and on paper looks unlikely.  But this is the world of the Beach Boys - how many other things that have happened make sense. 

BTW, Kokomo was issued on Elecktra. SC and SNJ were on Capitol. Might it be possible that someone at Capitol might have buried those releases in retaliation?  Hell, the BB for the rest of their existence couldn't get a record deal without Brian.  Even after they scored the biggest hit of their career (and did so without any BW involvement), the labels wouldn't touch them without Brian.  Most acts when they achieve sucess are rewarded. The BB should have been rewarded for Kokomo but were (IMHO) ppunished by being forced to deliver something that they couldn't guarentee: Brian Wilson.

All of which happened after the BB were inducted into the RRHOF.

RobMac--good memory. That reader was yours truly, and I did point to essentially the same timeline as AGD.  Howver, there are couple of bullet points missing. Add in that the BB's were not even signed to Capitol until the spring of 1989,  nearly a year and a half after Love's speech.  Therefore, in order for the Capitol conspiracy theory to have merit, they would have had to sign the Boys to a new deal, then decided that in spite of the money they were putting into the project, they would assure that  the first single wopuld tank.  Oh, and then they would put out a second single (SNJ) and then try to tank that one too.   Didn't make sense then, doesn't make sense now.

[southbay]

Well, aren't the RRHOF shows broadcast some months after the actual event?

Not in 1988, no broadcast at all ion those days.  The only place one could see any clips of the event was a two minute clip on Entertainment Tonight and the like.

[Jason]

I highly doubt the R&RHOF speech was the reason those singles that followed Kokomo tanked. Highly. The Beach Boys weren't able to do much of anything right commercially between 1977 and 1988, so it's hardly possible that a few acidic words from Michael did anything to ruin their already unenviable reputation. Keep in mind, during the aforementioned years, the Beach Boys were in more tabloids than music magazines. Kokomo was a fluke. After that, no one cared. We just have to deal with that. The Beach Boys collectively did far more to destroy their reputation than Michael did when he spoke for a minute at the R&RHOF, since, as we all know, they still managed to have one more #1 after that speech.

[MBE]

Well I don't want to give it away as I have some info on this I am saving for my book, but Andrew and Robmac are both half right. I don't remember which interview Mike said it in exactly , but he gave the probable reason SNJ tanked. I did a little more digging on his comment and it seems to pan out. Again sorry to be mysterious but I just want you both to know that neither of you are 100 percent wrong.

[smile-holland]

Well I don't want to give it away as I have some info on this I am saving for my book, but Andrew and Robmac are both half right. I don't remember which interview Mike said it in exactly , but he gave the probable reason SNJ tanked. I did a little more digging on his comment and it seems to pan out. Again sorry to be mysterious but I just want you both to know that neither of you are 100 percent wrong.

You tease! When can we expect the book to be released?

[Billgoodman]

Because these days, it's not about music, but image and looks.

Come on, Andrew: it has always been about image and looks. Sure, television (and then MTV and the like) upped that angle, but let's not suggest The Good Ol' Days were all that different.

Luker here, so my post won't have any authority, but Luther is right here.
Pop music is the result of mass media and image and looks have always been factors in the success story of bands.
It's true that the degree of musicianship that is needed for a good pop song can fluctuate through time. But in my book Lady Gaga writes better songs  than "Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini" and that was a big hit in 1960. And I can name lot's of other hits in the 'great' sixties and seventies that are just novelty hits.

Lady Gaga is a very talented singer pianoplayer too, btw,
Try this link, it's better than Smart Girls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogdCvvqsyDE
 

[b00ts]

"Still Cruisin'" tanked because it flat out wasn't a good song - the wonder is it charted at all.

Then how come crap like "My Humps" and "Soulja Boy" chart so high (in the US, anyway), and all the good acts (save for the old farts-Dylan, BW, U2, Springsteen, Macca, etc.) are relegated to "indie" or "underground" status??

Because God has left us. A long time ago. And market fragmentation.