Wind chimes - Air

[Rocker]

Don't know if this was talked about already, but I just listened to Bach's "Air" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOVwokQnV4M
and wondered if anybody else sees some small similarities between this and "Wind chimes" (and especially the "Whispering winds" ) ?
I believe it's better to understand what I mean in this version by sme youtube-member:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP66UH3ymbw&feature=related

[Chris Brown]

Great find!  I definitely hear a bit of a similarity in the piano part to "Whispering Winds," although it's really just playing a basic descending scale, so it's hard to say whether Brian was directly inspired by this.  We do know that Brian listened to at least some classical music back then, so I suppose it wouldn't be a huge stretch.

I also find it quite an odd coincidence (?) that the piece in the same key as "Whispering Winds."

[Surfer Joe]

What's really interesting to me is that "Air" in this sense doesn't refer to the element, i.e. oxygen, but to a musical form.  Probably everybody else got this years ago, but I had never really thought about the potential of an intended pun there. If "Air" was really meant to have been a piano piece, as was supposedly said in the seventies, was the pun assumed to have been intended, and was that considered a clue as to the form of it?

[TonyW]

And did you know that the word "air" is the word in Bahasa Indonesia for "water"? Darian Sahanaja was born and raised in Jakarta, Indonesia so its quite possible that Darian has always had the concept of "air" and "water" confused and as seeing that Darian helped Brian to "finish" SMiLE it might explain why there are no air and water movemnets in BWPS as it was intend for the Beach Boy's SMiLE".

So there ... see if you can draw a longer bow then that!

After all Darian getting it confused wouldn't be the first time ... after all the cover art for the Wondermints Bali album is from a Ramayahna cigar box and they originate from Java, not Bali.

[runnersdialzero]

wat

On BWPS...
"Wind Chimes" is air.
"In Blue Hawaii" is water.

At least for BWPS, anyway - no one knows the intent for the original Smile, although it's said that the original air piece was lost. And "In Blue Hawaii" makes use of the water chant.

[buddhahat]

What's really interesting to me is that "Air" in this sense doesn't refer to the element, i.e. oxygen, but to a musical form.  Probably everybody else got this years ago, but I had never really thought about the potential of an intended pun there. If "Air" was really meant to have been a piano piece, as was supposedly said in the seventies, was the pun assumed to have been intended, and was that considered a clue as to the form of it?

That is a fascinating thought and one that I would never have considered.

Thanks for posting that Rocker. I can't hear the similarities immediately, but then I've just woken up so don't have the head for this yet! Man I love Bach. Wonderful is a very Bach-like tune, but then that's obvious, isn't it. When you hear Air on a G String played on piano like that, you realise how much of a genius Bach was.

For more evidence of his genius, check this out: (skip past the into by stepford wife)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Csynke0maE

[TonyW]

wat

On BWPS...
"Wind Chimes" is air.
"In Blue Hawaii" is water.

At least for BWPS, anyway - no one knows the intent for the original Smile, although it's said that the original air piece was lost. And "In Blue Hawaii" makes use of the water chant.

Since BWPS have you ever heard Brian refer to Air or Water? Back in 66/67 he only talked about Air & Water.

(FYI: I know the internet can get in the way of humour, and language barriers can be horrific, and cultural variations on humour can be lost across this interweb thingy ... but it was meant as a  joke/humour)

By the way since when has it ever been proved that Windchimes is Air or for that matter that Da Da was Water?

[A Million Units In Jan!]

By the way since when has it ever been proved that Windchimes is Air or for that matter that Da Da was Water?

It hasn't.

[Rocker]

We do know that Brian listened to at least some classical music back then, so I suppose it wouldn't be a huge stretch.

Brian mentioned that "Pet Sounds" was inspired by Bach, especially the break in Here Today iirc.

I haven't heard the Sea Of Tunes alt. Smiley Smile in a while but I believe the complete "just piano" track of Wind Chimes is also very reminiscient of "Air".
I'm glad that others hear the similarities too and I'm not only wishing I hear them....

[rogerlancelot]

Orchestral Suite No. 3 BWV 1068 - II Air.

I hate it when people call it "Air On A G String". 

[TonyW]

By the way since when has it ever been proved that Windchimes is Air or for that matter that Da Da was Water?

It hasn't.

Thank you.

[Dr. Tim]

Being quite familiar with both pieces, I have to say I don't hear the connection.

Both have harpsichords and slow tempos, that's it for similarities.

I don't recall Brian ever channeling Bach the way, say, Procol Harum did.  Though "Our Prayer" is a stunning work of counterpoint, the harmonies are entirely Brian's, not specifically traceable to any other particular composer, except possibly Gesualdo (a genuine weirdo), whose choral music I doubt Brian would have heard.   But I'm prepared to be educated otherwise.

Sorry to ruin the serendipity.

[chris.metcalfe]

  Though "Our Prayer" is a stunning work of counterpoint, the harmonies are entirely Brian's,

Tim, it's not counterpoint, it's (just) harmony on Our Prayer. Counterpoint is different lines of melody together (as I'm sure you know). As per God Only Knows. Or the melodies in Wonderful.

For me, the spirit of baroque music (use of harpsichords, trumpets, etc) which suffused the work of various pop luminaries in 1966-67 is a more important sign of Bach's influence than the actual copying of melodies. Another feature of the baroque composers, particularly Handel, is the way they recycled their own melodies - very Brian Wilson.

[Dr. Tim]

Counterpoint is melodies and parts moving in contrary directions while being true to harmony, which "Our Prayer" (and "Cabinessence") and many other BW pieces do.  Look at the piano score of "Our Prayer" (I bought one in Colony Music):   the high melody descends, while the bass line ascends.  Then the directions reverse.   Rinse, lather, repeat.  Even more telling: the a capella vocal flourish linking H&V with what you guys call "False Barnyard": the voices start on one unison note, then part in opposite directions to the final chord.  He doesn't use it all the time, neither do most composers, but when he does, it's stunning.

This almost effortless ability to achieve on pop records something "serious" classical composing students struggle with is one of the reasons I began really studying what Brian was and is able to do with voices, consistent with his limited formal training (he did have some in school).  And all I'm saying is I don't hear any direct quotes of the Bach "Air" anywhere in "Wind Chimes".

[hypehat]

Speaking of UM 18, there's an instrumental insert for Wind Chimes done on a harpsichord, which bears little resemblance to Wind Chimes itself.... could THAT be Air?

[Rocker]

And all I'm saying is I don't hear any direct quotes of the Bach "Air" anywhere in "Wind Chimes".

I don't think that anybody talked about direct quotes (I certainly didn't mean that). It's just feeling wise, it's kinda reminiscing.