Where does "Carl and the Passions - 'So Tough' " rank?

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I would put 'So Tough' somewhere near 20/20. Both of these albums are full of good songs, but they don't seem to flow together well. Thus I would rank Holland a lot higher then 'So Tough'. I would say that these albums rank are somewhere in the middle of the 25 (?) studio albums.

[Smilin Ed H]

70s and beyond - group albums in this order
Surf's Up
Sunflower
Holland
Love You
CATP
LA
15 BO

and the rest

I love All This is That, Cuddle Up, Marcella and Hold on Dear Brother and like Mess of Help and Make it Good. Pity one or two of the other potential tracks couldn't have been added...

[Roger Ryan]

I've never given a whole lot of thought to ranking the BB albums in order of preference, but I have to say that I agree with MBE's list practically to the title (I, too, prefer STILL CRUISIN' over '85 if only for "In My Car" which I feel is a great Brian rocker).

CATP has grown on me a lot over the years. I could barely tolerate it when I first bought it in '76 (especially since it was packaged with PET SOUNDS), but I like it quite a bit more now. It's certainly the least "Beach Boys"-like album they ever put out.

[Alex]

I find CATP to be a very enjoyable listen...sounds like 3 different bands put together onto a compilation, but the quality of the songs makes up for a lack of unity. And as far as 70s rock in general goes, I prefer CATP to just about anything Zeppelin, Sabbath, Deep Purple, the Stones, Yes, Pink Floyd, Genesis, Uriah Heep, Jethro Tull, etc. were putting out at the time.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I LOVE Carl & The Passions!

I kind of look at it as the debut album by a band helped out a tad by Brian Wilson. Either that or a quick musical pit-stop between  Surf's Up and Holland.

If Carl & The Passions is a bit disjointed, they certainly got it right with Holland!

I REALLY wish they continued in the C&TP and Holland direction for the rest of the 70's. Then they could've dragged Brian back when he was cleaned up and in shape. As much as I love MIU/LA/Love You, I really really wish the C&TP/Holland band was able to ride on for longer and develope....

This all said, 1976 is my favortie year in Beach Boys history, so maybe I need to have my head checked!

[Sheriff John Stone]

I wish it was a little bit longer - what's there is pretty good (aside from He Came Down, which is a bit much), but it's a little underwhelming at 8 tracks.

Yeah, I mentioned the shortage of songs in my post. I'm not a big fan of bonus tracks, but this album could use one or two. Anybody know of any possibilities?

I also wanted to plug the two "outsiders'" songs. I kinda like "Here She Comes"; the drumming is brilliant as usual. And, even though "Hold On Dear Brother" isn't about Brian (it isn't, right?), it sounds like it could be and I enjoy it!

[Aegir]

Here She Comes and Hold On Dear Brother sound too similar to each other.

[Rocker]

Here She Comes and Hold On Dear Brother sound too similar to each other.

I disagree big time.

Funny, I've got a feeling that I'm the only one who thinks that it's not the two Chaplin/Fataar songs, that don't fit with the rest, but the two Dennis-songs and "All this is that". Replace them with stuff like "California ride" and you'd have a very enjoyable rock-album, and nothing would sound too much out of place

[BennySahuaro]

I wish it was a little bit longer - what's there is pretty good (aside from He Came Down, which is a bit much), but it's a little underwhelming at 8 tracks.

I also wanted to plug the two "outsiders'" songs. I kinda like "Here She Comes"; the drumming is brilliant as usual. And, even though "Hold On Dear Brother" isn't about Brian (it isn't, right?), it sounds like it could be and I enjoy it!

Back then, I wondered if the song referred to Brother Fataar.

[Eric Aniversario]

Here She Comes and Hold On Dear Brother sound too similar to each other.

I disagree big time.

Funny, I've got a feeling that I'm the only one who thinks that it's not the two Chaplin/Fataar songs, that don't fit with the rest, but the two Dennis-songs and "All this is that". Replace them with stuff like "California ride" and you'd have a very enjoyable rock-album, and nothing would sound too much out of place

I love all 8 songs, but I do agree that the two Dennis songs don't really fit in...I do think All This Is That does fit well though.

I also agree that Hold On Dear Brother and Here She Comes are two totally different songs.  If anything, Make It Good and Cuddle Up sound a lot more similar to each other.

[MBE]

I've never given a whole lot of thought to ranking the BB albums in order of preference, but I have to say that I agree with MBE's list practically to the title (I, too, prefer STILL CRUISIN' over '85 if only for "In My Car" which I feel is a great Brian rocker).

CATP has grown on me a lot over the years. I could barely tolerate it when I first bought it in '76 (especially since it was packaged with PET SOUNDS), but I like it quite a bit more now. It's certainly the least "Beach Boys"-like album they ever put out.

Glad you like the list. I think So Tough wasn't a favorite when I first played it in 1989, but once I got more into seventies music I really thought it was a good album of it's era. I commend it for not being Beach Boys like in the stereotypical way.

One more comment is that I just can't put anything Beach Boys related from 1976 on above the earlier stuff, excepting  Dennis' continued excellence through the seventies (in the studio).

[Sheriff John Stone]

Here She Comes and Hold On Dear Brother sound too similar to each other.

I disagree big time.

Funny, I've got a feeling that I'm the only one who thinks that it's not the two Chaplin/Fataar songs, that don't fit with the rest, but the two Dennis-songs and "All this is that". Replace them with stuff like "California ride" and you'd have a very enjoyable rock-album, and nothing would sound too much out of place

I love all 8 songs, but I do agree that the two Dennis songs don't really fit in...

While I think "Make It Good" would've benefited from better placement on the album - specifically somewhere on Side A - I think Carl's angelic vocal fading into the opening piano chords of "Cuddle Up" is perfection.

[grillo]

.....Still got to hear the pre-Pet Sounds albums (some of the 1965 LPs would get into the Top 10 no doubt) in their entirety along with their post 1979 stuff...........

My god, man, do it already!

[tpesky]

Wow, I didn't realize there was so much love for So Tough. The album never worked for me, I will have to try it again but I can't get into the sound. I guess because they don't sound like The Beach Boys. I will take All This Is That and Cuddle Up as favorites. Every Flame song seems to last forever and plod along. I just never cared for the BB sound on Mess of Help and Marcella

[Bicyclerider]

i think there's about half of a great album on So Tough.  My idea for So Tough was that this was their "back to the roots" album after the progressive sounds of Sunflower and Surf's Up - a raw, R & B, dirty rock and blues (and country) album.  The single You Need a Mess Of Help, with that rough and raw Carl vocal, certainly gave that impression.  Hold On Dear Brother, Marcella, and He Come Down (gospel) are in a similar vein.  But the other four songs are not at all in the roots rock theme - Dennis's lush orchestral songs, the jazzy pseudo Traffic Here He Comes, and the TM All THis is That don't fit at all with the other songs.  So it's a schizophrenic album.

I like to combine the four songs mentioned above with California Saga, Sail on Sailor, Funky Pretty, and It's a New Day and Barbara to make a roots rock album that would have been more suited to the Carl and the Passions So Tough title.

[joe_blow]

I think track by track CTP-ST hold up very well. It seemed to receive less than stellar reviews upon it's release. Perhaps as a whole it doesn't seem cohesive but more of patchwork. 20/20 in many ways took the same criticism.

[smile-holland]

favorite 70ies albums:
1. Sunflower
2. Holland,
3. In Concert
4. C&tP-So Tough
5. Surf's Up
6. Love You
7. L.A.
8-10. M.I.U./15BO/KTSA

And if I would've withcounted solo-outings, POB would end up second...

[Goin’Bald]

The funny thing about CaTP-ST is that it still stands as a solid album, there’s nothing phoney about it. Mind you, it’s 27 years old and I don’t think it has aged a second. It’s also a 4 x 2 album, two songs from Brian, two from Ricky & Blondie, two from Dennis and two TM songs, but somehow it works. I quite like the separation into a rock-side and a softer side. That’s what you had back then when there weren’t CD’s, two sides on an LP you know.

I reckon “You need a mess of help to stand alone” as one of the best rockers of The Beach Boys (if not their best) and I’m glad I had the chance to witness it during a live concert in 1970. It sure is a great track to start an album. They should have played this song live more often. At first I had something against “Here she comes”, as not being a Beach Boys song, but when I listened to it on a good record player and heard all the parts in its right proportions and at a good volume, it was just as good as any Beach Boys song. “Marcella” is still a highlight during Brian’s concerts. The songs on side 2 by Dennis are just a proof of what we would have gotten if he was given permission to release his own album around 1970. I still don’t get fed up listening to “Cuddle Up”.

[James Hughes-Clarke]

At first I had something against “Here she comes”, as not being a Beach Boys song, but when I listened to it on a good record player and heard all the parts in its right proportions and at a good volume, it was just as good as any Beach Boys song.

Seriously....?  As good as ANY BB song?   

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Here She Comes and Hold on Dear Brother might just be my two favorite songs on the album. I think the Beach Boys seemed a little tired during that album. Ricky and Blondie brought some freshness. On the Holland album, it seems that the rest of the Beach Boys were reenergized and get back to the quality of songs on Surfs Up.

[Goin’Bald]

Sorry, Ossama Long, re-phrase: The song is not out of synch on the album. It’s just a fine rocker. I know you can change history in leaving out a few words, but that was not the intention.

[smile-holland]

The funny thing about CaTP-ST is that it still stands as a solid album, there’s nothing phoney about it. Mind you, it’s 27 years old and I don’t think it has aged a second. It’s also a 4 x 2 album, two songs from Brian, two from Ricky & Blondie, two from Dennis and two TM songs, but somehow it works. I quite like the separation into a rock-side and a softer side. That’s what you had back then when there weren’t CD’s, two sides on an LP you know.

I reckon “You need a mess of help to stand alone” as one of the best rockers of The Beach Boys (if not their best) and I’m glad I had the chance to witness it during a live concert in 1970. It sure is a great track to start an album. They should have played this song live more often. At first I had something against “Here she comes”, as not being a Beach Boys song, but when I listened to it on a good record player and heard all the parts in its right proportions and at a good volume, it was just as good as any Beach Boys song. “Marcella” is still a highlight during Brian’s concerts. The songs on side 2 by Dennis are just a proof of what we would have gotten if he was given permission to release his own album around 1970. I still don’t get fed up listening to “Cuddle Up”.

1970?

1972, right? 

[LostArt]

The funny thing about CaTP-ST is that it still stands as a solid album, there’s nothing phoney about it. Mind you, it’s 37 years old and I don’t think it has aged a second.

I’m glad I had the chance to witness it during a live concert in 1970.  The songs on side 2 by Dennis are just a proof of what we would have gotten if he was given permission to release his own album around 1970.

1970?

1972, right? 

And 37 years old, right? 

[PaulHippensteel]

I always thought "Surf's Up" was the best '70s Beach Boys album. "So Tough" is very uneven, and some songs aren't very Beach Boys sounding, but still has some great individual songs, but it doesn't flow very well as an album.

[Rocker]

Here She Comes and Hold on Dear Brother might just be my two favorite songs on the album.

That steel guitar solo on "Brother" is just killer. Never get tired of hearing that