If Vegetables Was Released As A Single In 1967...

[Amazing Larry]

What kind of structure do you think it would have?

[Bicyclerider]

I think it would have been basically the same structure as on BWPS, except it would end with "Fade to Vegetables."

[hypehat]

But, that would be a really bad end to a single.... Maybe it would have faded out on 'Eat a lot, sleep a lot', like on the boxset, instead of going into fade to vegetables.

[Alex]

What's Fade to Vegetables? Is that the "ba ba ba ba ba ba" that comes in after "eat a lot..." fades out?

[Chris Brown]

What's Fade to Vegetables? Is that the "ba ba ba ba ba ba" that comes in after "eat a lot..." fades out?

Yeah I think that's what Bicyclerider was referring to...oddly enough though that section was never recorded for Vegetables in the first place, it was just stuck on there for the box set. 

I think if it had been finished and released as a single, Brian would have either used "eat a lot, sleep a lot" as the fade, or come up with another one.  Or maybe he would have ended it like on Smiley, with that last verse repeating to the fade.  Other than that, the sequencing on the box set seems the most logical to use.

[Jeff]

What's Fade to Vegetables? Is that the "ba ba ba ba ba ba" that comes in after "eat a lot..." fades out?

Yeah I think that's what Bicyclerider was referring to...oddly enough though that section was never recorded for Vegetables in the first place, it was just stuck on there for the box set. 

I think if it had been finished and released as a single, Brian would have either used "eat a lot, sleep a lot" as the fade, or come up with another one.  Or maybe he would have ended it like on Smiley, with that last verse repeating to the fade.  Other than that, the sequencing on the box set seems the most logical to use.

No, Fade to Vegetables was in fact recorded for Vegetables.  Here's a line from Badman's book: "Wednesday [April] 12th [1967]  Recording Smile session 79 Gold Star studio Los Angeles, CA  2:00-5:00pm. Instrumental tracking sessions for the 'Fade to Vegetables' piece of 'Vegetables'."  He goes on to describe some of the backing vocals for that piece.

http://books.google.com/books?id=BeUDXaFrpTUC&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181&dq=%22fade+to+vegetables%22+%22beach+boys%22&source=bl&ots=GeFh01ibgr&sig=TEyRUHXQ39CDF_8qOWWgC7pPVO0&hl=en&ei=mz1eSszGMYuuswOfgLGlCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6

[Chris Brown]

What's Fade to Vegetables? Is that the "ba ba ba ba ba ba" that comes in after "eat a lot..." fades out?

Yeah I think that's what Bicyclerider was referring to...oddly enough though that section was never recorded for Vegetables in the first place, it was just stuck on there for the box set. 

I think if it had been finished and released as a single, Brian would have either used "eat a lot, sleep a lot" as the fade, or come up with another one.  Or maybe he would have ended it like on Smiley, with that last verse repeating to the fade.  Other than that, the sequencing on the box set seems the most logical to use.

No, Fade to Vegetables was in fact recorded for Vegetables.  Here's a line from Badman's book: "Wednesday [April] 12th [1967]  Recording Smile session 79 Gold Star studio Los Angeles, CA  2:00-5:00pm. Instrumental tracking sessions for the 'Fade to Vegetables' piece of 'Vegetables'."  He goes on to describe some of the backing vocals for that piece.

http://books.google.com/books?id=BeUDXaFrpTUC&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181&dq=%22fade+to+vegetables%22+%22beach+boys%22&source=bl&ots=GeFh01ibgr&sig=TEyRUHXQ39CDF_8qOWWgC7pPVO0&hl=en&ei=mz1eSszGMYuuswOfgLGlCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6

My bad...I don't think we're talking about the same thing.  I thought you were referring to the fade on the box set.

[Jeff]

No, we're talking about the same thing.  Fade to Vegetables, recorded 4/12/67, is the fade on the GV box set version of Vegetables.

[Chris Brown]

No, we're talking about the same thing.  Fade to Vegetables, recorded 4/12/67, is the fade on the GV box set version of Vegetables.

The reason I was confused is that there was a thread a few months back where this was discussed, and AGD said that Leaf told him that the fade edited onto the end of Vegatables on the box set was just thrown on there to get more Smile music out to the public (I'm sure you remember the thread, I remember you being a part of it).  I generally tend to trust AGD.  Plus, the Badman book's description of the fade doesn't seem to jive with the tag on the box set.

[Jeff]

I remember that thread, but it's not just Badman's book that references  "Fade to Vegetables."  You can google it - it was in fact an actual session.  As far as Badman's description of the recordings, it's not obvious that those sounds are part of Fade to Vegetables until you listen to the sessions on SOT 17.  It's such a layered track that a lot of things come out in the sessions that can't be heard independently when you listen to the whole.  But trust me, if you listen to SOT 17, you can hear it.

[Bicyclerider]

And I think that "Fade to Vegetables" would have been an awesome end to the single.  Just like when GV goes into that choral section, a whole different thing from what's precededed it, but amazing in it's own way.   Fade to Vegetables is one of my favorite pieces of Smile music, period.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

And I think that "Fade to Vegetables" would have been an awesome end to the single.  Just like when GV goes into that choral section, a whole different thing from what's precededed it, but amazing in it's own way.   Fade to Vegetables is one of my favorite pieces of Smile music, period.

And that's what makes SMiLE, after all this time and all these years, so great. It's the small pieces of music-some of them only a minute or so long-scattered here and there that makes you wonder just how great it would have been.

Isn't this fade also used as background music on another official compilation, and they put the vegetables argument  over it?

[Mr. Cohen]

Well, one thing I've thought Brian might have done, although I haven't done an edit yet, is use one of those instrumentals he had the group sing the "eat a lot, sleep a lot" part on or that fade with all of those crazy layered vocals on it to put part of the vegetable arguments on, and put it in their at a semi-random point, kind of like how he put the weird bit in the Smiley Smile version of "Wonderful". Listening to that Sagittarius song "My World Fell Down" made me think of that. Also, maybe use the "eat a lot, sleep a lot" chant twice, kind of like a chorus, which he did with the single version of "H&V".

[Amazing Larry]

Does anyone thinkthe april version of With Me Tonite would be on there?

[Sheriff John Stone]

And I think that "Fade to Vegetables" would have been an awesome end to the single.  Just like when GV goes into that choral section, a whole different thing from what's precededed it, but amazing in it's own way.   Fade to Vegetables is one of my favorite pieces of Smile music, period.

And that's what makes SMiLE, after all this time and all these years, so great. It's the small pieces of music-some of them only a minute or so long-scattered here and there that makes you wonder just how great it would have been.

Isn't this fade also used as background music on another official compilation, and they put the vegetables argument  over it?

Yes, on the Hawthorne CD, with Brian and Hal Blaine "arguing"....

I agree with you about those brilliant "small pieces of music - some of them only a minute long - scattered here and there that makes you wonder just how great it would have been." That was one of my disappointments with BWPS. Darian did a great job, but I miss those little parts interjected here and there. Specifically, on the BWPS "Vegetables", I find the way it ends suddenly to be disappointing, sacrificing some kind of cool fade....   

[Roger Ryan]

But then Darian and co. were interested in putting together something that could be performed live (so fade outs weren't going to be included). I understand that it was easier (and less controversial) to simply duplicate the live presentation in the studio for BWPS, but part of me wishes they did rethink it and incorporate some of that lost music (both the H & V  and VEGETABLES fades are among my favorite pieces of SMiLE). On the other hand, BWPS is an album made up of three movements with no breaks which in itself is a departure/progression from what came before, so something had to be sacrificed.

[grillo]

Does anyone thinkthe april version of With Me Tonite would be on there?

That would be great! Maybe after the bop bop doo doo doot part. I think I like the SS fade better than FTV...

[SmileySam]

Yeah, all that time I didn't know that 'With Me Tonight' was originally used for Vega-Tables. I always thought it was an original non-SMiLE related piece.

[juggler]

The reason I was confused is that there was a thread a few months back where this was discussed, and AGD said that Leaf told him that the fade edited onto the end of Vegatables on the box set was just thrown on there to get more Smile music out to the public (I'm sure you remember the thread, I remember you being a part of it).  I generally tend to trust AGD.  Plus, the Badman book's description of the fade doesn't seem to jive with the tag on the box set.

I don't know if Mark Linett still reads this forum, but I'm pretty sure that he has addressed this question in the past.  I seem to recall him once indicating that the fade was definitely NOT "just thrown on there" but was, in fact, found that way on an original tape.  Mark, if you're out there, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Roger Ryan]

The reason I was confused is that there was a thread a few months back where this was discussed, and AGD said that Leaf told him that the fade edited onto the end of Vegatables on the box set was just thrown on there to get more Smile music out to the public (I'm sure you remember the thread, I remember you being a part of it).  I generally tend to trust AGD.  Plus, the Badman book's description of the fade doesn't seem to jive with the tag on the box set.

I don't know if Mark Linett still reads this forum, but I'm pretty sure that he has addressed this question in the past.  I seem to recall him once indicating that the fade was definitely NOT "just thrown on there" but was, in fact, found that way on an original tape.  Mark, if you're out there, please correct me if I'm wrong.

It's placement on an original reel of tape may have indicated the music was meant to be a tag to VEGETABLES (along with existing documentation), but the crossfade used on the GV box set version was specifically done for the '93 release. Brian was not using any crossfades (only hard edits) on tracks finished in '66/'67. Given what exists of the sessions, I can't imagine how one could do a successful hard edit into FADE TO VEGETABLES unless it was placed immediately after the acapella "send us your letter" section. Wanting to include as much of the material as possible for the box set release, I'm assuming the crossfade was the best option.

[Bicyclerider]

Yes, you've got the sequence down - after the a capella "I know that you'll feel better" it would go into the "Fade."

[Roger Ryan]

Yes, you've got the sequence down - after the a capella "I know that you'll feel better" it would go into the "Fade."

Hmm, makes me wish they edited the track that way for the box set release!

[cta]

I would guess that it would be much different than any version of Vegetables any of us have ever heard.   A lot more production and either added or different lyrics from Parks...like two different lines of lyrics going in tandem. 

[SmileySam]

The slowed down version of "I know that you'll feel better when you send us in your letter and...". Was that recorded during the Smiley Smile sessions?

[Nicko1234]

Personally I`m really glad that it wasn`t released as a single as I think it would have been one of the worst that the band had released up to that point.