Brian's Fall US tour ('new' old songs)

[the captain]

Lots of funny here.

[Menace Wilson]

Lots of funny here.

Please share.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I agree with this too (except for the losing the love for the music part)!  It boggles my mind to think what B.W.'s handlers/management could possibly be thinking.  It takes a hell of a lot to make me second guess going to see B.W. live, but that's where I'm at with it.

It's just so damn frustrating...there's getting to be too much baggage for me to enjoy it as much as before. I mean, I've always seen through the facade, just didn't realize it was *this* bad. Not just talking about the touring, obviously.

I'm gonna go listen to my Stone Temple Pilots albums now. Scott Weiland may be a recovering dope fiend, but at least nobody tries to portray him as something he ain't.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Had a most pleasant meal with someone prior to Guilfest, and the subject of Brian's 'management' came up, and was thoroughly dissected. Concisely, they couldn't organize an orgy in a brothel.

[Menace Wilson]

Had a most pleasant meal with someone prior to Guilfest, and the subject of Brian's 'management' came up, and was thoroughly dissected. Concisely, they couldn't organize an orgy in a brothel.

 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Had a most pleasant meal with someone prior to Guilfest, and the subject of Brian's 'management' came up, and was thoroughly dissected. Concisely, they couldn't organize an orgy in a brothel.

Well, they "could" but it'd be something like, I dunno... body parts would be going where they aren't meant to, the brothel would probably catch on fire, while the person filming it will be telling everyone they're filiming a movie about World War II.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Another observation was, "who's planning this tour - Stevie Wonder ?"

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Nah...more like Ray Charles.

[Sheriff John Stone]

It's obvious Brian doesn't give a sh*t, so why should we? And honestly, who could blame him? Brian obviously enjoys playing rarities way more than the oldies, so , hey...let's make him perform merda Down! I don't get it...the setlist has gradually shifted towards the casual fan...who probably couldn't differentiate our Brian Wilson from Giants pitcher!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[the captain]

Scott Weiland may be a recovering dope fiend, but at least nobody tries to portray him as something he ain't.

Talented? 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Quote from: Billy Castillo on Today at 05:06:11 PM
Scott Weiland may be a recovering dope fiend, but at least nobody tries to portray him as something he ain't.
Talented? 

Weiland's the f*cking man...great guy too.

It's obvious Brian doesn't give a sh*t, so why should we? And honestly, who could blame him? Brian obviously enjoys playing rarities way more than the oldies, so , hey...let's make him perform merda Down! I don't get it...the setlist has gradually shifted towards the casual fan...who probably couldn't differentiate our Brian Wilson from Giants pitcher!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I think you forgot the negative sign in front of the $ sign, since everything he's done has *lost* money.

[Jonathan Blum]

Let he who has never looked at his watch during a business meeting cast the first stone...

I don't see the analogy. Music is art. This isn't accounting, you don't do it out necessity, but desire. Art is about passion.

I hate to break it to you...

Sometimes a gig is just a gig.  My brother-in-law's a saxophonist, and he's done everything from composing and recording a pretty cutting-edge piece also featuring a didgeridoo (as part of his postgrad work) to playing in a Jimmy Buffett cover band.  I know one of the guys from the string section from the Sydney TLOS shows -- he's part of the (frickin' brilliant) electric string quartet Fourplay, who have played the Opera House, released three albums, and toured with Roger Hodgson... and they've also done the weddings-parties-anything circuit as a straight string quartet, playing Pachelbel's Canon till they keel over.  I'm a writer -- I have a day job as well, but even the writing is sometimes just work-for-hire.  The novels and some of my short stories are me striving for full-on art, other stories and magazine articles only exist because my wife needs a new laptop.  My latest article is a retrospective on "Chances", a gloriously dodgy old Aussie soap opera (think "Passions" with gratuitous nudity)... which starred Jeremy Sims (one of our most acclaimed stage actors) and Michael Caton (a film and TV star down here for about thirty years).  Sometimes it's not art, it's pure craft and graft.  Heck, even Lennon and McCartney sometimes sat down to write themselves a new swimming pool, not to push back the boundaries of music.

So Brian Wilson doing some workmanlike shows isn't an offence against art.  It's not all Brian-the-genius, it's also Brian-the-hard-working-guy.  And sometimes the fact that it's work to you shows.

To me, he is disrespecting the art form. It also shows a quite warped way of thinking. The man has no qualms about putting on a lackluster performance for people who may have paid over $100 for their seat.

Christ, Brian must have been such a selfish bastard back in the late '70s / early '80s, then.  Dennis too, and even Carl for a stretch there -- all more concerned with getting high on the road than creating an artistic triumph.

Truth is, what you think isn't the bit that matters -- the question is, what did the people who saw the show think?  Did they feel that a performance of a huge and wide-ranging setlist by a top-flight band with a notoriously damaged frontman was gimme-my-money-back ruined by the fact that the guy up front was merely performing decently rather than passionately?

Heck, I've seen Brian on an off-day -- just off the plane in Sydney, jetlagged and sore-throated, playing an oldies set at the Sydney Festival opening-night free show to a huge crowd.  And the crowd adored it.  Even if he was in much better form a couple of days later when they did "That Lucky Old Sun".

Most people aren't as intensely critical as dyed-in-the-wool fans can be, to the point where reports that the guy up front looked at his watch -- looked at his watch! -- while performing is a reason to pillory him.

I would be so embarrassed if I acted like that under those conditions. I don't think I'd leave my room for days. I like Brian for his music but he does seem to think the universe revolves around him.

I suspsect it's more that some of his fans think the universe revolves around them, and what they get out of the show (even shows they didn't attend), and get upset when Brian doesn't confirm this.  :-)

That's not a personal go at you, BTW.  We're fans, we overreact, it's in our nature.  We just need to remember this.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Jonathan Blum]

I don't get it...the setlist has gradually shifted towards the casual fan...who probably couldn't differentiate our Brian Wilson from Giants pitcher!

Whoa whoa whoa, as a great man once sang...  Shall we go back and look at the actual setlist we're discussing?  It's around post 52 in the thread. 

It's a setlist that features about *fourteen* obscure album cuts, from early Beach Boys albums through all four of his solo discs.  This is not a token song thrown in to please the hardcore fans, it's about 40% of the show.  That's a huge proportion of buried treasures by most standards -- you're not gonna get Paul McCartney playing 40% stuff that didn't hit big.

Hell, go back to Eric's site and look at the setlists from 1973, the untouchably-cool live era of fan favorites -- even those usually only had seven or eight non-hits (including their current singles).  Again, around 40%.

Now it's true, when he was touring Pet Sounds or Smile, Brian's band was doing more like 50% obscure stuff.  I think that's a sign of just how damn lucky and spoiled we've been on those tours -- not a sign that they're just a Joe-Sixpack-focused traveling jukebox now.  (Ten years ago?  Only rarity at a Beach Boys show was "Why Do Fools Fall In Love".)

Truth is, we've reached the point where we take hearing long-lost gems like "Marcella" and "Girl Don't Tell Me" for granted now.  And some folks won't be satisfied unless they tour "The Beach Boys Love You", admit it...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Good points, but I was referring to "Shut Down",  "409" , and "Little Deuce Coupe". Maybe some of it is my own personal bias, but I'd rather see Brian perform more interesting material. That was great when he was doing "I'd Love just once to see you" last year or so, or "Time to Get Alone" or "Til I Die" or "let It Shine" during the early solo tours.  I also don't like the idea of Foskett singing lead on a few tracks. He may have a better voice than Brian does in this day and age, but I personally want to hear *Brian* sing all of the leads. If he can't do it, either lower the key or drop it from the show! Again, a fair bit of it is my own personal bias, but if I'm spending hard earned money, I want to see the guy I paid money to see sing lead actually sing lead. If I wanted to hear somebody else sing "Don't Worry Baby", for example, I'd...go see somebody else sing DWB. Even if Brian does it badly, I want to see him.

I hope that didn't come off too harshly. Not that it affects me personally...I doubt he'll ever come back to Houston any time soon...glad I got to see him when I did!

[Mr. Cohen]

I was going to go to sleep, but I can't rest without first laying these indignities heaped upon me by the good Mr. Blum to bed (please note that I'm being sarcastic):

My brother-in-law's a saxophonist, and he's done everything from composing and recording a pretty cutting-edge piece also featuring a didgeridoo (as part of his postgrad work) to playing in a Jimmy Buffett cover band.  I know one of the guys from the string section from the Sydney TLOS shows -- he's part of the (frickin' brilliant) electric string quartet Fourplay, who have played the Opera House, released three albums, and toured with Roger Hodgson... and they've also done the weddings-parties-anything circuit as a straight string quartet, playing Pachelbel's Canon till they keel over.  I'm a writer -- I have a day job as well, but even the writing is sometimes just work-for-hire.

OK, but the difference is that you, along with your brother-in-law, most likely need those mundane jobs to make enough money to live comfortably. Brian doesn't need to perform his music live to live comfortably. He has his money, so what's his excuse? I think he just likes the public adulation he can get at his shows. However, at the same time, he doesn't want to put any effort into earning it. He just coasts on his legacy, and the fans allow him to by buying tickets and cheering poor performances. OK, he has put a little effort into it (he has hired vocal coaches), obviously, but clearly not enough. He plays his keyboard for hours every day but he can't humor people who have paid over $100 by playing it even just a little at his shows? Why not? He really can't muster the concentration to just play, for example, the piano intro to "Kiss Me, Baby"? Yet I'm believe he could concentrate enough to write That Lucky Old Sun? It just doesn't add up.

Christ, Brian must have been such a selfish bastard back in the late '70s / early '80s, then.  Dennis too, and even Carl for a stretch there -- all more concerned with getting high on the road than creating an artistic triumph.

Look, I'm a young guy but I've done plenty of drugs in my time, and I've had addiction problems. Alcoholism runs in my family and as a teenager I watched two of my friends succumb to crack addiction. Sure, an addict usually takes drugs or drinks alcohol because they're depressed, but that still doesn't stop it from being a selfish act. When I was drinking all of the time and smoking weed while living with my dad, I was being selfish. He was paying for the food I ate and the roof over my head so I could spend more money on drugs and alcohol. Just because I felt broken or crushed while I was doing it doesn't make it excusable. Sympathizers are enablers, it's as simple as that. I don't see Brian's situation in the late 70's as being that different.

I suspsect it's more that some of his fans think the universe revolves around them, and what they get out of the show (even shows they didn't attend), and get upset when Brian doesn't confirm this.  :-)

Hey, if some fans like paying for those shows and enjoy it, then all of the more power to them. But as far as I'm concerned, they might as well be fans of "Chances".

I'm not really trying to argue, I'm just trying to clarify my thoughts more. This is how I often like to think things through, through friendly debate.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Very well put Dada...you said everything I was feeling, in a much more articulate way than myself.

[Wirestone]

Dada -- For what it's worth, I've seen Brian live five times (2000, 2001, 2004, 2006 and 2008). Not once have I felt that he was coasting. There were some great and some not-so-great performances, but I always saw him working his tail off.

But that's just my opinion. I've also seen Dylan live and enjoy his shows, too. But the real problem is this graf:

"He plays his keyboard for hours every day but he can't humor people who have paid over $100 by playing it even just a little at his shows? Why not? He really can't muster the concentration to just play, for example, the piano intro to "Kiss Me, Baby"? Yet I'm believe he could concentrate enough to write That Lucky Old Sun? It just doesn't add up."

I have seen him play piano at several of his shows. In 2000, he would do "In My Room," I think. In the "Smile" shows, he played on the tag of "Wind Chimes" and did a solo with Taylor at the beginning of "Marcella." So to say he doesn't play it is simply factually incorrect.

To then connect that with the composition of TLOS -- to suggest, once again, that there is some conspiracy behind Brian to write his songs and produce his albums -- is a bit of a stretch. No one goes to a concert to watch people compose songs, after all.

[Smilin Ed H]

"to suggest, once again, that there is some conspiracy behind Brian to write his songs and produce his albums -- is a bit of a stretch."

Hey, it's the internet!

[Mr. Cohen]

Wow, I wake up only to face more indignities! The struggles of a college student... 

To then connect that with the composition of TLOS -- to suggest, once again, that there is some conspiracy behind Brian to write his songs and produce his albums -- is a bit of a stretch. No one goes to a concert to watch people compose songs, after all.

No, that's not what I was trying to suggest. What I was saying is that if Brian could write most of TLOS, then I'm sure he could manage to play his keyboard for extended periods in a live setting. It's obvious that he can still concentrate when he feels like it. There's no excuse. And, OK, he's played his keyboard for about a minute or so at some shows. How much credit should he get for that? I think it was Jeff Foskett that said that Brian doesn't play his keyboard at shows because he gets tired of it after playing it for his own amusement all day. He could care less about the fans paying $100+ for his shows, unless, that is, you want to clap for him. He knows he doesn't have to try hard for applause, so he doesn't.

[Smilin Ed H]

"No, that's not what I was trying to suggest. What I was saying is that if Brian could write most of TLOS, then I'm sure he could manage to play his keyboard for extended periods in a live setting. It's obvious that he can still concentrate when he feels like it. There's no excuse. And, OK, he's played his keyboard for about a minute or so at some shows. How much credit should he get for that? I think it was Jeff Foskett that said that Brian doesn't play his keyboard at shows because he gets tired of it after playing it for his own amusement all day. He could care less about the fans paying $100+ for his shows, unless, that is, you want to clap for him. He knows he doesn't have to try hard for applause, so he doesn't."

Having seen Brian playing keyboards in various documentaries over the last ten-twenty years, I'm not too sure how good he is anymore.  Either way, I've got over it and I enjoy the show.

[Dove Nested Towers]

It's interesting to read through all this and reflect on how amazing it is that we have even reached this sort of "full circle" stage at all, from his surprising appearances at the British and San Diego conventions and the long hoped-for but unexpected touring phase of his career starting in 1997, to now the mature stage where we are more critical, or at least appraising, of the shows, song selection and possibly his degree of effort during them.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of another pop artist who had such a divergent career,
going from years of breakdown, reclusiveness and aversion to public performance (after early years of heavy touring), a long period of occasional re-emergence but basic performing inactivity, followed by a prolonged performance rennaissance (albeit one where many external factors and support systems all had to fall into place). Judy Garland
had some parallels to it, and others I'm sure that I am forgetting or don't know about.
(anyone?)

If Foskett really did say that he's tired of playing keyboards in his spare time and that's the reason he doesn't play onstage, it would seem like that might do a bit of a disservice to the fans and he should be persuaded to save a little more of his instumental enthusiasm for the paying audiences, or one could argue that he's given so much and we
are so privileged every single time we have a chance to see him in concert that he's earned the right to do it on whatever terms he needs to in order to be happy.

Either way, it obviously takes a lot of his remaining commitment to tour, even if he does do it (for his part, leaving aside other pressures) largely because he enjoys the adulation or other reasons not purely artistic (most performers do have a mixture of motivations, as others have pointed out) and we are undeniably fortunate to be able to experience his physical presence and passion, which is considerable, especially during material that moves him, at all.

[the captain]

Someone asked earlier what I found funny. Well, J. Blum addressed it well in his first post above (and Wayne Coyne had some relevant points in the follow-up article to his interview). I agree with him whole-heartedly. I wrote a lot more about this, but it got unbearably condescending and so I deleted all that part. The "art form" of music is, was and forever shall be at least as much commerce as it is anything else. Don't like Brian's disrespect? Buy product from someone else who sells something you think is less disrespectful to the pure, for-the-love-of-it art form.

[Menace Wilson]

I wrote a lot more about this, but it got unbearably condescending

There's a shocker.

You are right in that commerce is a factor, not just for the artists, but for the fans.  In order to see one of these U.S. dates I'd have to fly halfway across the country and miss a couple days of work.  In the end it would cost half a grand or so for my wife and I to go.  If, in addition to this, Brian is completely bummed out playing songs that he's sick of (for God knows what reason), then I may as well save my money and go see McCartney, who has reportedly booked a show less than an hour from where I live.

[the captain]

No, the shocker is that it was unbearable even to me.

[Sciencefriction]

Still not sure if I'm going to get tickets for this the PA show, it's so pricey and right now I need a few extra $$$ to even buy them.  Curse you college, and my other concert commitments made prior to this information.  All I can ask is, for a life long fan who has never even seen the Beach Boys live, it is worth it right?