A question about Brian and pressure from Capitol records, early to mid 60's.

[The Song Of The Grange]

Is there any consensus as to when Brian started encountering resistance from Capitol regarding his new musical direction.  A few sources say it was during the Beach Boys Today! period.  I have read (via Keith Badman, which isn't the greatest source) that Mike Love also began voicing some opposition to Brian's new direction.  It seems that before the Today! sessions Brian's output didn't seem to get under the skin of Capitol because it was along the lines of their proven formula.  Did Capitol actually tell Brian to get back to writing the good-time hits, or is this something people assume in light of what came later (ie disapproval of Pet Sounds).  Why would Capitol care that Brian filled the back side of Today! with slower tempo, introspective songs?  Most of the BBs records before this point had a bunch of filler anyway.  It seems like Today! had plenty of the BBs standard formula.  The album also sold well, though Dance Dance Dance and Do You Wanna Dance both topped out at #12 on the US charts.  It seems to me Capitol had  nothing to complain about until Pet Sounds.  Summer Days and Summer Nights also doesn't seem to provide much for Capitol to fret about.  It had two huge hits on it--California Girls and the single version of Help Me Rhonda.

[Cam Mott]

Is there any consensus as to when Brian started encountering resistance from Capitol regarding his new musical direction.  A few sources say it was during the Beach Boys Today! period.  I have read (via Keith Badman, which isn't the greatest source) that Mike Love also began voicing some opposition to Brian's new direction.  It seems that before the Today! sessions Brian's output didn't seem to get under the skin of Capitol because it was along the lines of their proven formula.  Did Capitol actually tell Brian to get back to writing the good-time hits, or is this something people assume in light of what came later (ie disapproval of Pet Sounds).  Why would Capitol care that Brian filled the back side of Today! with slower tempo, introspective songs?  Most of the BBs records before this point had a bunch of filler anyway.  It seems like Today! had plenty of the BBs standard formula.  The album also sold well, though Dance Dance Dance and Do You Wanna Dance both topped out at #12 on the US charts.  It seems to me Capitol had  nothing to complain about until Pet Sounds.  Summer Days and Summer Nights also doesn't seem to provide much for Capitol to fret about.  It had two huge hits on it--California Girls and the single version of Help Me Rhonda.

I would say never, they seem to me to pretty much take whatever Brian gave them whenever he got around to it.

[Amanda Hart]

There is a story in (former Capitol Exec.) Ken Mansfield's The White Book where Brian came in with an acetate of Barbara Ann and Mansfield told him it didn't make any sense why they would do an album like Party after Summer Days and that people would be too confused by all of the different directions they were taking from album to album and Brian got up and pretty much told him "too bad, this is going to be our next single", walked out and then never consulted with him on anything again.

[Cam Mott]

That sort of sums up my impression. Brian did as he pleased, when he pleased and Capitol, the Boys, whoever, could like it or lump it and did.

[shelter]

It seems to me Capitol had  nothing to complain about until Pet Sounds.

Well... It was a US top 10 and a UK #2 album (their highest ranking album ever in the UK, not counting compilations)... And it yielded 2 US top 10 hit singles and two more top 40 hits... And even two UK #2 hit singles. Still not much reason to complain, I'd say...

[Bicyclerider]

While the Beach Boys got to hear a bunch of Smile tracks in various stages of completion on returning from Europe - and the reaction wasn't enthusiastic according to some reports - did Capitol ever get to hear Smile tapes other than the released Good Vibrations?  I wouldn't think they would have expressed an opinion as they were not in the loop to even hear the thing until Brian would deliver it to them.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Is there any consensus as to when Brian started encountering resistance from Capitol regarding his new musical direction.  A few sources say it was during the Beach Boys Today! period.  I have read (via Keith Badman, which isn't the greatest source) that Mike Love also began voicing some opposition to Brian's new direction.  It seems that before the Today! sessions Brian's output didn't seem to get under the skin of Capitol because it was along the lines of their proven formula.  Did Capitol actually tell Brian to get back to writing the good-time hits, or is this something people assume in light of what came later (ie disapproval of Pet Sounds).  Why would Capitol care that Brian filled the back side of Today! with slower tempo, introspective songs?  Most of the BBs records before this point had a bunch of filler anyway.  It seems like Today! had plenty of the BBs standard formula.  The album also sold well, though Dance Dance Dance and Do You Wanna Dance both topped out at #12 on the US charts.  It seems to me Capitol had  nothing to complain about until Pet Sounds.  Summer Days and Summer Nights also doesn't seem to provide much for Capitol to fret about.  It had two huge hits on it--California Girls and the single version of Help Me Rhonda.

I would say never, they seem to me to pretty much take whatever Brian gave them whenever he got around to it.

That Capitol released, without so much as a murmur, Smiley Smile, strongly supports this argument. They had much more trouble with Reprise. Witness;

Sunflower - submitted as Add Some Music, and rejected...
Carl & The Passions - So Tough - paired with Pet Sounds...
Holland - submitted and rejected until a 'hit single' was included...
In Concert - submitted as a single disc, and rejected: resubmitted as a double set, and very nearly rejected again...
Adult/Child - submitted and rejected...
M.I.U. Album - submitted as California Feeling, and rejected...

[PrayForSurf]

Andrew,

Do you think the rejections were 100% on merit or was the Reprise brass micromanaging to fit their preferences?

Phil

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well, the initial version of Sunflower was OK, but a bit fuzzy round the edges... Holland was definitely improved by the substitution of "SO,S" for "WGL"... the single disc In Concert had more interesting tracks, but seemed a bit, er, uneven... Adult/Child, yeah, i can see their point... as for M.I.U., I don't think anyone could do much with that.

[juggler]

While the Beach Boys got to hear a bunch of Smile tracks in various stages of completion on returning from Europe - and the reaction wasn't enthusiastic according to some reports - did Capitol ever get to hear Smile tapes other than the released Good Vibrations?  I wouldn't think they would have expressed an opinion as they were not in the loop to even hear the thing until Brian would deliver it to them.

Interesting question.  I can't recall any specific reports of Capitol executives hearing acetates of Heroes and Villains, etc., but it wouldn't seem surprising if they did.  On the other hand, let's not forget that this was also the period in which the Beach Boys were involved in some sort of lawsuit against Capitol.

As for the supposed lack of enthusiasm on the part of the rest of the group, we definitely have to exclude Dennis from that.  He went on record in late '66 with his famous "It makes 'Pet Sounds stink, that's how good it is" comment.

[Andrew G. Doe]

While the Beach Boys got to hear a bunch of Smile tracks in various stages of completion on returning from Europe - and the reaction wasn't enthusiastic according to some reports - did Capitol ever get to hear Smile tapes other than the released Good Vibrations?  I wouldn't think they would have expressed an opinion as they were not in the loop to even hear the thing until Brian would deliver it to them.

Interesting question.  I can't recall any specific reports of Capitol executives hearing acetates of Heroes and Villains, etc., but it wouldn't seem surprising if they did.  On the other hand, let's not forget that this was also the period in which the Beach Boys were involved in some sort of lawsuit against Capitol.

As for the supposed lack of enthusiasm on the part of the rest of the group, we definitely have to exclude Dennis from that.  He went on record in late '66 with his famous "It makes 'Pet Sounds stink, that's how good it is" comment.

Recall a quote that said something along the lines of "the only time Karl Engemann ever heard a BB LP all the way through was if it was playing at a reception".

[Howie Edelson]

From a recent interview I conducted with Ken Mansfield. While working at Capitol in November 1965 as the label’s Head of Promotions, during an A&R meeting with Brian, Mansfield, upon hearing “Barbara Ann” for the first time, told Wilson that the song will undoubtedly be a bomb for the Beach Boys, which ultimately lead to his work with the group being limited in the future. Mansfield went on to become as the Beatles’ first U.S. Manager of Apple Records in 1968 and 1969.

____________________________________

In the beginning of your book, you did yourself a disservice, because that Brian Wilson story…

[Laughs] I know!

[The Beach Boys] were coming off their biggest bomb…

Yeah.

“The Little Girl I Once Knew” which was only Top 20 – but you didn’t say that in the book, you made it like “Hey, what do I know?” – when you did know.

Y’know, it’s really hard for me to say bad things about people who were really important in my life, and I know that that wasn’t a bad thing, but I just kind of wanted to get to the point. It was ironic to me because I felt that it was a terrible record, I thought I knew what I was doing, I thought I knew my job, I thought it was a mistake for Brian to come out with that record. The thing went to Number One [sic] in like eight days, man. What I figured was, I know I’m right, Brian’s stompin’ out basically, but when the record does like the record before he’s gonna come back and say, “Ken, I see.” [Laughs] It didn’t happen.

What was the hang-up in marketing “The Little Girl I Once Knew,” do you remember?

I really don’t. A Beach Boys record you didn’t market, you almost didn’t promote it, the guys got it to the stations and the stations played it. We had certain records that were automatics and other records we had to walk in and do our dance and things like that. But you say you’re a “Capitol fan” – what’s that based on?

Just the whole mechanism…

Yeah! And there was a whole mechanism. There was an absolute machinery.

And the thing that I found so fascinating, because my whole deal is Beatles and Beach Boys, is that you get the EMI side from the Beatles, where like you said, the Beatles never dealt with real dudes…

They didn’t!

It was always like the “Lords’…

Yeah, the Lords of EMI or the Chairman of the Board of Capitol Industries [laughs].

[The Song Of The Grange]

MR. Edelson.  This is some great insight.  Thanks for posting!  I am constantly blown away by the amount of knowledge among the members on this message board.

[shelter]

That Capitol released, without so much as a murmur, Smiley Smile, strongly supports this argument.

But then again, 'Smiley Smile' included a #1 single. That alone is pretty much a guarantee for reasonable album sales - so no big risks had to be taken there.

Unless anyone can explain the platinum status of 'Still Cruisin' without using the K-word?