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647610 Posts in 25907 Topics by 3700 Members - Latest Member: BigRed June 19, 2019, 06:14:51 AM
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Poll
Question: Rate Smile: The Story of Brian Wilson's Lost Masterpiece
5 - 4 (15.4%)
4 - 5 (19.2%)
3 - 7 (26.9%)
2 - 6 (23.1%)
1 - 2 (7.7%)
0 - 2 (7.7%)
Total Voters: 20

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Author Topic: Smile: The Story of Brian Wilson's Lost Masterpiece  (Read 22105 times)
Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2006, 03:56:51 PM »

I think the Beatles thing would have been much less of an issue if Dom had made it more clear that this was Van Dyke's take on the situation. Clearly, it's Parks speaking, but . . .

To me, it's an interesting window on Van Dyke . . . who was around to absorb some of Brian's growing paranoia at the time. It would make sense for VDP to reflect some of that sentiment.

The Devil's always in the details (no matter what your subject is) . . . but the wider context is necessary, too . . . because nothing happens in a vacuum. The minutiae is not as powerful without proper context . . . especially when you're dealing with a mass-market kind of audience (readers who are not as well-versed as diehard fans).

In my view, Dom's SMiLE book was never intended or marketed as a SMiLE sessionography, or complete reconstruction of the original recording sequence, or anything like that . . .

Plus, that erroneous "official" label that got stuck on there at an early stage in the game (against Dom's wishes) before the book came out . . . probably helped lead people to expect something different from it.

That said, it's the littlest of errors that slip through that are always the most annoying . . . like incorrect chart positions, and things of that nature. Those can be sloppiness, or typos . . . or, worst of all, the result of errors introduced by an editor (after the fact).

I know . . . because stuff like that has happened to me . . . and truthfully, to just about anyone who has published anything. That latter scenario is a true nightmare. When it comes to publishing, there's a lot of potential for imperfection, regardless of your knowledge level.

The best thing to do is try DOUBLY hard to minimize anything that you could possibly get wrong on your own . . . because there's nothing like having someone else screw up your work for you . . .  (I'm not saying that's what happened in Dom's case, I just know it can be a reality for writers).

M.

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donald
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« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2006, 07:07:35 AM »

I've enjoyed the book.  As AGD pointed out, there is some good, if not always factual, information on the context of things such as the scene in LA at the time of SMiLE.

And if DP is writing a book about the Whiskey era on Sunset Strip I'd love to read it.


There are some tidbits of information in this book that one might not read elsewhere and on that basis I woul recommend it to other BB fans....to be taken with a grain of salt.
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« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2006, 03:48:18 AM »

Reading it and disapointed. I like Domenic's guts but his political and personal feelings make this a all too subjective book that lacks the factual detail he could have provided.
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Spiller
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« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2007, 06:38:43 AM »

I thought the book was okay. Like another poster has said there are lengthy quotes from Parks which are the parts I found most enjoyable. Though I didn't notice some of those incorrect 'facts' some of you mentioned, I can totally appreciate how that could annoy people and is going to harm the integrity of the book.

The main problem I had was about half way or three quarters of the way through when the tone of the book becomes a lot more defensive and aggressive. It makes sense that Priore gives some personal experiences to Smile and how he is linked to it but maybe he does let his personal feelings get in the way of an objective review.
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« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2008, 09:02:34 PM »

As flawed as the information in this book might be, I still enjoy reading it. I had never heard of some of the bands Priore mentioned in the book, such as Love, the Seeds, the Apples in Stereo, etc. etc. Reading about how Love and other LA bands actually started the psychedelic movement as opposed to the Frisco druggies made me want to get into their music. Forever Changes is now one of my top 10 favorite albums.

And I actually like Priore's bias, probably because I agree with him. No, he shouldn't be stretching the truth or misleading readers. But I do agree with him about how we should've had SMiLE back in '67 and that the world was actually ready for it. I like how he portrays himself and other SMiLE-o-philes as heroes fighting against the anti-SMiLE, anti-progressive party line of "The Beach Boys, Inc.". Whether Priore's right or not, that's arguable. But you've got to give him credit for telling a fascinating story (in my opinion, anyway).


The whole thing about the Beatles listening to the SMiLE tapes, I thought it was true when I first read it, but a simple re-read made me notice the quotes being Van Dyke's and that it was just speculation.
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"I thought Brian was a perfect gentleman, apart from buttering his head and trying to put it between two slices of bread"  -Tom Petty, after eating with Brian.
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« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2008, 06:13:14 PM »

This book contains a rather sensational extract from a book by Chuck Negron (of Three Dog Night) featuring Brian being bullied and humiliated by the other Beach Boys during a Redwood session.  I know the name Priore (like that of Leaf) are swear words to some people but how reliable is Negron's account?  Should we believe it and if not, why not?

Mike has offerd his version saying that it was Brian who didn't want to put out the Redwood stuff. He says Brian felt they didn't do the vocals good enough. The Redwood stuff against Mike started in the Todd Gold book. I don't know I suppose they would have wanted to get first dibbs on Brian's new stuff, but he produced two outside records in 1968 so I think he could have produced them if he really pushed for it.
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Ganz Allein
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« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2008, 08:01:18 AM »

This book contains a rather sensational extract from a book by Chuck Negron (of Three Dog Night) featuring Brian being bullied and humiliated by the other Beach Boys during a Redwood session.  I know the name Priore (like that of Leaf) are swear words to some people but how reliable is Negron's account?  Should we believe it and if not, why not?

Mike has offerd his version saying that it was Brian who didn't want to put out the Redwood stuff. He says Brian felt they didn't do the vocals good enough. The Redwood stuff against Mike started in the Todd Gold book. I don't know I suppose they would have wanted to get first dibbs on Brian's new stuff, but he produced two outside records in 1968 so I think he could have produced them if he really pushed for it.

The Chuck Negron story ("remembered" from Todd Gold's book?) of Mike and the other BBs humiliating Brian in front of Redwood in the studio may indeed not have happened.  However, listening to the Redwood version of TTGA, I find it very hard to believe Mike's claim that Brian didn't think their vocals were good enough.  They're just about as strong as the vocals on most any other Three Dog Night release.  According to Peter Reum and to Danny Hutton quotes (via Peter Ames Carlin's book), Mike and the other BBs didn't want Brian producing another group using music as good - and with such obvious commercial potential - as TTGA and Darlin', so they wouldn't let him go any further with Redwood.  Brian did go on to do other outside productions after that, but they were either not with hit-bound material (like Fred Vail's unfinished country album) or they were for family (like Spring) and thus not a threat to the BBs.
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« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2008, 07:14:38 PM »

It's an interesting story, but I cannot picture Carl or even Mike yelling at Brian in front of another group. Besides  the Beach Boys really made Time To Get Alone and Darlin their own and Brian did quite a bit on those versions too. I never heard Redwood's Darlin' it might be pretty interesting.  Mike was interviewed by John Tobler in 1976 on this and it is quoted in his first book on them from 1977.
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hypehat
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« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2009, 04:41:00 AM »

i fall in the middle somewhere with this....

While the bits with Van Dyke Parks are really great (he should write memoirs. guy talks like a son of a bitch), and it gladly ignores some of the more irritating members of the Smile crew (Schwartz, for instance) and talks about Hutton and some of the more reliable ones.....

But if you're going to say something on that scale about Pet Sounds (isn't that Brian sings everything but a few parts? i forget the exact number, but he gives plenty of examples), something as basic as a qualifying statement from, say, Chuck Britz would be expected. there's nothing. Unless my Pet Sounds box and ears decieve me, thats bull-merda.  Undecided
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2009, 02:47:53 PM »

something as basic as a qualifying statement from, say, Chuck Britz would be expected.

Bit tricky - Chuck died in 2000.
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hypehat
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« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2009, 12:14:26 PM »

i didn't know that  Sad

you see my point about the pet sounds thing tho... unless it's true  Undecided
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« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2009, 08:54:16 AM »

My biggest complaint is the fact that he wants to force things on you that he believes, as if his opinions are the only  ones we should all listen to.
For one  example, when he says 'several musician accounts of this particular cancellation suggest that this session was for the purpose of editing the SMiLE album together'. Now, if this were true, why wouldn't he quote these musicians? It sounds to me it's more like what he would like to believe, so he tossed in the 'several musicians' bit to back up his opinion. This book has too many examples of that kind writing.
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punkinhead
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« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2011, 06:38:33 AM »

Just found this, is this a re-release of the same book or is it a different book all together or is it a re-release with additions?:


http://books.google.com/books?id=9A66GgAACAAJ&dq=subject:%22Beach+Boys%22&hl=en&ei=jhzVTYjKLMXAtgeug8GCDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAzgK
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« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2011, 06:39:14 AM »

Just found this, is this a re-release of the same book or is it a different book all together or is it a re-release with additions?:


http://books.google.com/books?id=9A66GgAACAAJ&dq=subject:%22Beach+Boys%22&hl=en&ei=jhzVTYjKLMXAtgeug8GCDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAzgK

same with this one:
http://books.google.com/books?id=81YIAQAAMAAJ&dq=subject%3A%22Beach%20Boys%22&source=gbs_book_other_versions
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To view my video documentation of my Beach Boys collection go to www.youtube.com/justinplank

"Someone needs to tell Adrian Baker that imitation isn't innovation." -The Real Beach Boy

~post of the century~
"Well, you reached out to me too, David, and I'd be more than happy to fill Bgas's shoes. You don't need him anyway - some of us have the same items in our collections as he does and we're also much better writers. Spoiled brat....."
-Mikie

"in this online beach boy community, I've found that you're either correct or corrected. Which in my mind is all in good fun to show ones knowledge of their favorite band."- punkinhead
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« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2011, 12:44:25 PM »

@punkinhead: asked myself the same question - that's why I haven't purchased it yet. Guess it's just different publishers and covers, though.
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« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2011, 09:48:49 AM »

I read that when it came out. That's the only place anyone has ever mentioned anything like that, which of course doesn't invalidate it. My Three Dog Night knowledge is lamentable. Could have happend as described although A) doesn't sound like Carl at all and B) someone better qualifed pointed out the session dates don't jibe. I'm preserving an open mind... but it's funny a close friend like Danny Hutton hasn't, to my knowledge (corrections welcomed, usual address), said word one about it on some 39-odd years.

However, the claim in Priore's book that the Beatles covertly heard Smile[/i] tapes on a visit to LA - and to be fair he's only going on what Van Dyke told him - totally falls apart with the most cursory internet research. As described, no way it could have happened (and on being questioned by a friend about it, Van Dyke merely stated that he based this claim on both Smile and Pepper utilising sound effects). Any responsible author would have taken the half-hour (tops) to check a few Beatles sites and do a rough timeline. No-one was in the right place at the right time until, at best, early 1967 - when Pepper[/i] was being mixed.
 
Another example - Priore claims that the reason we stopped playing Smile at the Stomp Convention in the early/mid 80s was because we were leaned on by BRI. As one who back then was helping out at the gig and preparing the tapes for playing, I can unequivically state that this is totally untrue. Why did we stop playing the tapes ? Because by late 1984, pretty much everyone had them anyway.

The best, the only foundation for any book like this, is facts. Not what you've heard, not what you want to hear, not what you think, not what you want to think - checkable, hard facts.

Yep, Dom's assertions about the Beatles caught my attention.  I even did a timeline to show his "theory" (putting it nicely) was false:


Once I questioned him about it and he said something to the effect of "Well, it might have been George when he was in LA, which resulted in 'Blue Jay Way'" (I'm paraphrasing from memory, have the exact quote written down somewhere).  This was another case of not checking your timeline - George's visit to LA wasn't until the later part of 1967...waaaaaay after Smile.

While the book does have its flaws, I recently enjoyed re-reading it.





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« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2012, 04:37:18 AM »

Diggin' the vintage photos of young Wondermints visiting Brian's old place in 1985. Awesome.
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